Players’ Podcast — December 29, 2020 — Charlatan is the Real Thing

PTF and JK are here to discuss their Christmases and look back at a strong weekend of racing.

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***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

welcome to the end, the money players podcast. This is our show for Tuesday, December 29th, 2020. Our final show of 2020, actually. Not necessarily true, but very de facto, our final show will, there’ll be a Stronick five show that I will put out tomorrow, but you know, that’s in sort of its own category in terms of what we consider the main, uh, offerings.

This’ll be the last one. What a year it’s been. And we’re going to look back at that a little bit. We’re going to talk about this past weekend and to do it all. We have coming to us with me from the planet, Texas, the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen. What’s up, Jay. K. [00:01:00] How was your Christmas? It was good, Pete, uh, you know, I gotta be honest with you.

The only reason I agreed to do this show today is because I wanted to try out this new mic, um, for the new mic, I would have tried to spin you somehow today, but, uh, or it actually takes some days off a year between Christmas and new year’s. That would have been smart. No, but it was fun though. Um, you know, I had Austin, so we, uh, uh, it’s always fun, you know, doing the, doing the Santa Claus thing.

I, you know, I remember my dad, um, used to kind of go above and beyond to like, make me think Santa was real. Um, I remember that he, he, uh, we left an Apple out and he like took a bite of the Apple and threw it up on the roof. Like as if. Santa Ana ate the Apple and just like discarded it. He also put powder on boots and walked through the living room, you know, little stuff like that.

And so I tried to do some things like that. Um, it’s awesome. I told Austin that we don’t have a fireplace. I told Austin that Santa will come in through the air conditioner. And so I, I left, uh, I [00:02:00] left some like wrapping paper through an air conditioning vent to like, make it seem like it kinda got caught on his way out.

So he was fired up. It was fun. It was fun. But you’re letting the cat out of the bag here. Uh, that Santa is a litterbug, J K, who, who knew? I, you know, you, you, you, I would have thought he’d be more environmentally conscious that’s to just drop his Apple core on the roof. Yeah. Especially living on the North pole with global warming.

You’d think that he’d step his game. Get that thing in the compost somewhere. Yeah, exactly. By the way, who wrapping gifts. I mean, I’m 38 and I just realized I have no idea what the hell I’m awful. I mean, literally I went through four roles just cause I was just like, whatever, dude, I’m just going to wrap it in, in whatever I can do and just make it work.

You know, I had some fun too. I I’m not. I’m pretty good at the amount to use, but the execution is poor. Some of my corners are just, they’re just not up [00:03:00] to snuff, but nobody seems to mind when they’re, you know, getting all that, uh, all that cool loot. So your big gift from Santa, it sounds like was a, a new fancy, a condenser podcast, USB microphone.

Yeah, I got this, uh, you know, I watch a lot of those podcasts. Uh, Joe Rogan, you know, Theo Von fighter and a K at all, all of them. And, um, they all have this mic and I was like, damn, I feel like I’m missing out. I got this little kind of janky mic. Let me go ahead and step my game. And, uh, it’s, you know, I did some testing.

It feels like you can kind of yell in the mic and it doesn’t distort. I don’t know. We’ll see, I also got this kind of fancy arm where it can kind of stay right in front of me and not have to like bend over or feel like I’m. You know, whatever. So I figured if I’m going to be doing these podcasts as much as I am, I might as well get a mic that, uh, that makes me professional.

I’m a Mike worthy of your ample talents. JK. That’s what you’re, that’s what you’re saying. And I’m glad, I’m glad you managed to get that. Funny enough. I got a, I got some audio equipment too. Uh, some books in the mix of a very nice new Christmas sweater. It was an [00:04:00] impressive hall. Parent, I think made out the best of all.

She got, uh, I got her in Nintendo switch her first video game system. And, uh, Santa’s got her a Fitbit, which she seems extremely excited about. She’s been pacing back and forth doing, doing steps and, uh, and hopefully gonna lead to, to, to a more fit lifestyle. I was worried maybe it was a little bit of a judgy gift from Santa, but no, she seems he knew he knew the man in the suit, newest stuff.

She seems very excited about it. What did Austin get? Yeah, Sam has got a lot of nerve, you know, trying to tell somebody in shape, but, um, Austin got, uh, he got a, a bunch of football Jersey, cheesy guy, like, uh, uh, Deandre Hopkins, uh, Michael Thomas, um, uh, Davante Adams who all, and Alvin Kamara bobblehead. So that worked out really well with Kumar and Vontay Adams having three, uh, he got a hover board, which he caught onto really fast.

Um, what else? What else did he get? A [00:05:00] pretty good haul already. Yeah. Yeah. He got his first, first pair of Jordans. Oh, nice. Sunny. He’s excited about that. And then a pair of like plain white vans and like a paint kit where he can like make his own shoes. Oh, that’s so cool. I love it. I love it. I that’s that’s excellent stuff.

Definitely. You can see his interest in your interests, uh, gearing up with the, the fun footwear and the, and the, the, the, the NFL connection though. I’ve never seen you in a Jersey as you insist there for kids. Yes. Their adult jerseys are not permitted. Uh, they’re not up there with like aisle jacking, but they’re on the list and, and, uh, and, uh, Yeah.

You know, he, he also is really funny. He wrote a note to Santa the night before asking Santa and giving him the password to his iPad, asking Santa to put some, to put some gyms for this game he plays. And so we had, we had to do that as well. Fantastic stuff. Any drinking items left out, maybe a DRAM [00:06:00] of the, in the money whiskey.

We had a parent helped me by nose only of course, but pick out quite a selection of American whiskey this year for, for the, for the dude. I asked Austin if he wanted to give him whiskey, uh, whiskey or coffee and Austin voted coffee. So we’re much more responsible with all that flying and whatnot and sickos like me leaving the booze.

You need the coffee to counterbalance it for sure. This is such a weird week of the year. Have you had this happen? I just. I, you know, I know approximately what day it is, but like just got completely disoriented. Speaking of the Stronick five show gonna have Scott Carson helped me with that this week, they’re going to be doing another one of those contests over on sport kinks.

And so I was like sending him like these elaborate plans about. Timing for tomorrow, not realizing it was not actually Thursday, tomorrow. Um, but Scott was understanding and laughed it off and helped me realize what actual deadlines I have tomorrow. But the, you just totally lose track of time during this part of the year.

Yeah. I mean, I [00:07:00] kind of lose track of time, always, you know, Tuesday, Tuesday for me, I, we, uh, Robert and I always joke that. You know, is soul searching Tuesdays, right? You don’t have any football to watch. Um, you don’t have any racing, you know, if you’re a fantasy guy that’s kinda done, you’re, you’re, you’re kind of in the middle of the work week, all these things and, and, uh, the good news is, is there is football today.

So, you know, the Texas Longhorns play tonight and a bowl game against Colorado. So, um, no soul searching today. I’ll, I’ll be, uh, I’ll be enjoying some sports, but yeah, I mean, I just think the nature of like the nature of like our. Jobs, I kind of lose track of what’s going on. If I’m not like, you know, in Saratoga or, you know, it’s not heavy racing season where, you know, we’re working a lot, just kind of all runs together.

I find, and it a weird week, this was a terrible week, two years ago. Right? Cause we just started the new show and all I wanted to do was like brainstorm about partnerships and new business and all this stuff. [00:08:00] And I have to. Like, and I’m even now finding myself, physically stopping myself from sending emails, being like, wait a second.

Normal people are not working this week. Like nobody wants my email about the run-up to the triple crown between Christmas and new year’s. I have to just like, save the draft and get ready to send it on on Monday or better yet Tuesday after people. Have a chance to dig out from the other idiots who bothered them between the week between Christmas and new year’s, but, uh, some podcast history being made today.

J K not only are we debuting your new microphone, but this is the first time I’ve ever done a proper winter show from. The degenerate flop house, of course, the finished garage right next to the little house on the East side where I’ve done many summer shows, but I was experimenting with different configurations of heaters and whatnot to see if I could get this inhabitable for, uh, for winter work, just to, you know, the little house is a little house and you’re in everybody’s way, doing the shows in the kitchen, the [00:09:00] over-under on parent interruptions would have been two and a half, but it seems like I’ve got this, this situation.

Worked out pretty well. And I’m excited to yap with you about, uh, this past weekend of racing. Let’s start off with some more macro thoughts though. JK, um, putting aside anything personal or political, when you think back to just horse racing in 2020, uh, I want to talk to you about what, what a couple of highlights might be and, or less learned.

Where does your mind go? When I asked that question? Yeah. You know, I think it goes to the, to the, to the 10 minutes before the breeders cup classic, you know, I mean, um, I think that moment kind of it was, was all encompassing of my year. Right? It’s it’s, uh, it was exciting. It was a big race. Uh, it was, it was fun to, to have the opportunity to be at Keeneland for that breeders’ cup.

It was, uh, it was exciting to be alive, to try to win a contest. Like the breeders got betting challenge. It was a. And, and, and, and I think [00:10:00] also when I, when I mentioned it being all encompassing it’s like there was also that, that emotional moment I had where I thought, um, about wanting to reach out to my dad to let them know how everything was going and, and, and, and having just lost him.

That moment feels like that was 2020 in a nutshell, for me, it was, it was, it was reminding me of the negatives, but it was also, um, it also kind of. Brought on this moment of, of, of the goodness that that still is to come. And, uh, it was a fun weekend. That race was awesome. The results was awesome. I was happy for my friend Marshall.

So for me, that was, that was kind of the, the, the highlight moment. Um, And, and, and a close second, I think was the opportunity to be at Saratoga to kind of, you know, I was locked in my house and being very responsible from a social distancing in a, in a quarantine standpoint, the first part of the year, and to be able to kind of get up to Saratoga and to have that, that [00:11:00] moment to, to be able to be a part of that racing and to help, uh, the people at home enjoy the racing, you know, that was probably, uh, probably second for me.

So those are the two moments. I feel like stand out to me the most. Did you make it to all 40 days? Saratoga? I can’t remember. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, my two summers ago, um, I got spun a couple of days, you know, just like when, if it was a shorter day, I wasn’t on the show or whatever it was. In fact I did, I did 41 days because there was that day where we did Churchill on, on a Tuesday, um, that we weren’t racing at Saratoga.

We still did. So I did 41 days of TV this summer. I can’t believe that you’ve been to Saratoga for every day of a meet, something that I haven’t even done. I I’m now regretting it. Of course at the time I felt like I was being a wise guy, but there was one year where I’d done every day. I can’t remember if the 40 day meat had debuted or if it was 36 or whatever.

The previous one was, I think it was 36 before it was 40 [00:12:00] and I was every day. And then the last day was like this just hideous weather. And like, I couldn’t deal. And I didn’t like anything on the card. And I just said the heck with it. I mean, I did go to in the, I did go pre racist to say goodbye to a few people so I could claim it.

But really I left early. And now compared to you, I’m feeling like a quitter. You, you know, you just made me feel really bad. I just realized now in this moment that the. The Airbnb that I stayed at this summer, it was raining one day and I borrowed the umbrella and I left it on the set.

I’m going to have to, I’m going to have to hit up my man and send him an umbrella from Amazon. I know the address, uh, spring street. So I’ll, uh, I’ll have to send him an umbrella. That was a, that was a, that was, uh, Airbnb, uh, fail on my part. You may get a poor rating for that one. JK the umbrella theft does not go over.

Well, remember, I would announce you a, this summer on a let loose and whatnot [00:13:00] is coming to us from the shadow of the spring street deli. Um, an echo of something I used to say on the show long ago for me. You know, the year didn’t turn out the way that a lot of the tos, the law fans wanted it to. We can say that for sure.

But I think just in terms of racing performances, um, I still find his Belmont and Travers super memorable and warm and fuzzy moments for me as a, as a horse racing fan, I feel like as a gambler, they were only okay. The Florida Derby. That was a good one financially, but I still think. That as, as wrong, it sounds that’s too harsh to say as wrong as the year went.

I’ll just say as disappointing as the last two efforts were, especially the breeders cup classic that when I think back to big racing results in 2020, I feel like with the benefit of hindsight, we may remember that brief stretch of TIS the law of dominance. W I can’t remember how big of a buyer inner to him or you.

I think you were pretty deep in [00:14:00] the tank. Yeah, no, I, I liked his, the law. I mean, I think I tried to beat him in the Travers with, after that he, uh, he, he, he captivated me and I was, I was in, and, um, I liked him in the Derby. I thought he was gonna win the Derby. And I didn’t really fault him for that performance.

And I was alive to him. I used him in the breeders cup classic. I thought he had a chance to run better I’m in that spot and it didn’t, it didn’t necessarily work out, work out. I don’t blame it on Manny or the trip. I don’t think he was, I don’t care what, how he was written. He wasn’t winning that race. Um, the way that he ran on the day.

I would like to see what he still has left in the tank. We’ve got a few weeks now before the Pegasus we’ll have plenty of coverage of that. I’m sure we’ll, we’ll probably touch on that. When we talk about, when we look back at some racing from this past weekend at anything else, from a racing point of view, you know, grievances to air, et cetera, here at the end of the year or great performances to highlight before we, we, uh, we change gears here on the show.

[00:15:00] Um, you know, I mean, look, I think we’re going to change gears into this, uh, look, I thought what charlatan did was magnificent and looking forward to seeing him moving forward. Um, and we’ll, I’m sure we’ll talk about that. The other thing is, um, you know, I’m, I’m really excited and proud of, of, of kind of what we did this year with the network.

I mean, we’re right now, we’re at 993,000 downloads. And that’s just, just on the main feed, just on the main feed. Cause I’ve been telling people we’ve hit a million and I don’t want them to question that we got, I don’t even know how many on the other feed, the green feed. Um, and then, you know, and then plus Naomi’s feed mats feed individually.

We have all the, I mean, we’re over a million on the, uh, on the, you know, on the total, but. You know, I, I feel like we’ll get to the million on the, uh, on the black feed and a comment. I opened up. Um, certainly one of our more [00:16:00] memorable shows of the year was that, that the, that the blackest show folks want to, if they’re looking to go back and listen, uh, Tyler did a great, what I thought was a great post collecting some of the best of 2020.

That’s another one I’d highlight Matt Bernier has a much more straightforward year in review to that. Everybody. That everybody should check out when looking back at this year. But yeah, I don’t mind moving the goalposts in terms of our, of our own goals. That’s kind of how you and I both are, I think is like, okay, we did something good.

Let’s do something else good. And if we can get to a million on that main feed, that’s pretty cool. And I’m sure we will. What was your, what was your favorite show? We did all year. I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is like, I think the most interesting show was probably that Blackish show. Um, I wouldn’t call it my favorite because it was so unpleasant stuff to, to like revisit and talk about.

But I do think it’ll probably go down. As the most memorable and, you know, honestly, some of the JK plus one stuff is some of my favorite stuff that we did. And best of all, I didn’t have to do anything except be made fun of a little at the beginning of a [00:17:00] running gag that I love it and hope continues.

But, uh, you know, that Duke Matisha, we were just talking about it. That was absolutely hilarious. Sure. I want to go onto Google texted me this morning and he said, uh, I can’t wait to play golf with Duke Matisse. That is probably an excellent, uh, that one was fun. Um, I, I enjoy, I mean, I enjoyed all of them, right.

They were all a lot of fun that that one was good. And that was that’s the most listened to show on our network. And, and, you know, I mean, obviously, maybe there was something prior to this, maybe there’s a Derby show back in the day, but this, this has the most downloads, um, is, is, is Duke show, which I just thought it was interesting because I think people.

I think people want to know more about what it is to be a professional horseplayer and how that works and the ups and the downs, the ins and the outs. And then, you know, there’s also, it’s a little bit nostalgic what it’s talking about, the good old days and, and, and, and how Duke and Paul and the rest of the crew kind of [00:18:00] operated back in Vegas.

When, when, uh, when, when things were a little bit. Better for the horse player. And, uh, so I think a lot of that was, was, was the reason why that was so much fun. And then, you know, it was cool to have like, you know, it was cool to have Baffert for, for, for two and a half hours where I thought we were going to stop at an hour and 45.

And he said, let’s keep going. You know, stuff like that was cool. So, um, you know, it was fun. It was, it was just, it was a fun year, despite all that stuff that wasn’t fun. Yeah, but we’re talking professionally now we’ve talked about the horse racing part, and now we’re talking professionally that just having such a great team of people and having their support, uh, rewarded by the fans with that ABR award.

I mean, that, that’s something, you know, I, I changed my Twitter bio immediately. I was so proud of getting that award that, um, Uh, and you know, that’s a Testament to the support of everybody, everybody out there. So, and also again, not just to vote for us, but also Naomi, Spencer, Matt, Nick lock, and everybody who are creating content pretty [00:19:00] much day in, day out at this point.

And there’s going to be more to come in in 2021. I hope to, I also hope to get back to doing some more writing about racing. I’m dying to find time to make that happen. And I’m hoping. As part of this ITM plus venture that I’ll maybe yap about a little bit later in the show that one of the things I’ll do is resume doing some interviews with the idea that I’ll be.

That’s one thing that’s sort of fallen away is me doing horseplayer interviews has fallen away with the great job you’ve been doing on JK plus one, all the other content we have out there. And all the racing we now have to cover. And so that’s one thing. Um, I’m going to try to bring back and then try to get writing on that and hopefully have another racing book out there because the, these holidays, we, that my inventory is gone.

Like, there are no bedding with an edge. Is there are no six secrets of successful betters. I got a few of the contest book, but with the publisher out of business, if I want to sell more books, I got to write one. [00:20:00] I was thinking about would be kind of cool. And I don’t know how it would work with the visuals, but I think an audio book.

Of like of, of, uh, bedding with the edge would be cool. It would be great. It would be really cool. Like actually read it and cause you know, he’s got not the accent. It’s great. You know, it’s something to think about. There’s probably a way to tailor it and, or like couple it with a website, but we’d have to figure out a way to make the stories work where you didn’t need the visuals like a hundred percent and could consult them later.

Just the nature of. Well, you know, w we don’t want people having to break out their, a tablet on the treadmill or whatever, Pope there’s, there’s probably a way to do something like that. And I know Mike is game to do another edition, and that, that is another project that’s on the list of projects. And, you know, the way the new work year is shaping up, hopefully something we’re going to be able to get to sooner rather than later.

Cause obviously that book has proved very popular. Um, All right. Let’s look at this [00:21:00] weekend. JK, you had mentioned charlatan. I think that is as good. A place to start as any. He scored a one Oh seven buyer in a very visually impressive victory, absolutely walking Nashville, who both you and I thought had a tactical advantage on the day.

How good was this effort? I thought it was really good, you know, there’s a legit sprinter that he ran by and actually kind of, kind of put away and Nashville, you know, kind of buried that horse. And, and, uh, and, and I think that the, the interesting part, if I’m being Frank is that Bob was a little bit concerned, uh, about him possibly being short and clearly not.

If that was short, boy, I don’t want to see him when he’s fit. Um, look, I, it was a special performance. He ran away from good horses. He went fast, the pace was fast. The final time was fast. Um, you know, [00:22:00] let’s not forget this horse has never been beaten and, uh, it’s unfortunate that he was injured and we lost them on the three-year-old trail.

But. I, I think that he’s the type of horse that could end up being a superstar if he sticks around. And I think that because of the injury, he, I’m not sure he’s accomplished enough as a three-year-old to stand for what he would, they would probably like to stand him for now. I’m sure he’s already got, I think he’s already got a deal.

I, I can’t remember who it is, but I’m certain he’s already got a, uh, a stallion deal, but. You know, winning a big two turn grade one race, I think would go a long way. Um, as an older horse against older horses. Um, why not look at running this horseback and say the Pegasus? I mean, if you, if you’re going to win a mile and an eighth race, why not win one at Gulf stream?

Uh, if, if, if that the horse is challenged from a distance standpoint, uh, it feels like the met mile. Uh, is he’s, he’s already three to five in that race. [00:23:00] So I think there’s a lot of, I think there’s a lot of opportunities to continue to see charlatan, uh, grow up and, and we don’t often see him as four year olds.

Man, I think about like the, I think about the, uh, the, uh, the frosted effect, I think about the gun runner effect. When these horses are allowed to grow up a little bit, when they’re talented and special, you can see some magnificent performances and I, and I think we’ll see more from Charlotte than this year.

Couple of followups one just for the listeners who might not know, we have people of every level from people who work in the thoroughbred industry to people who are listening to a racing podcast for their first time, our numbers tell us. So even if he has a deal to go onto a stallion career, very likely built into that deal.

Would be, uh, would be kickers potentially. In other words, more money exchanged if horse wins, x-rays why race, XE, race. And then there’s just the idea of the added achievements to help market that stallion, as opposed to just having them retire at three. So a couple of, couple of different reasons from a [00:24:00] business point of view, why it absolutely makes sense to keep him rocking and rolling conspicuous to me in your, in its absence, in your remarks, JK was the Saudi race with its.

Ridiculous purse. I don’t mean ridiculous in a bad way, but just absurdly high purse, um, with the Pegasus being taken down in value. Does that maybe make more sense as a target or could you potentially run in both? I think it does. I think it does make sense. And I don’t think I’m speaking out of school when I say this, but from what I understand, I think the kickers have run out.

So I don’t think there is any four year old kickers. I think the kickers that were in that deal, I think were three-year-old kickers. I don’t, I don’t, I I’m fairly certain that no one cares that I said that it doesn’t, I don’t think it matters if it does my bad, um, Yeah. I’m so, so he’s running for purse.

Purse is only at this point. And I think, and I also think too to solidify him as a stallion, right. To, to, to make him more attractive as a stallion. I [00:25:00] mean, winning the Arkansas Derby and, uh, actually he didn’t win the art well, whatever. And that was the other thing I was going to follow up on is of course he’s never, you said he’s never been defeated he’s he’s no one’s ever crossed the wire in front of him because of that DQ that may be.

Would be a little bit more benefit to proving himself with a four-year-old campaign than the average three-year-old who so often just got whisked off to stuff. I wonder, I, you know, I’m curious, I wonder if his page, I wonder if his page will say that he won the Arkansas Derby. In the catalog. Um, I don’t think analog when like, yeah.

Yeah. I don’t think, I don’t think you get the type, if you didn’t get the, like in the, in his career record and the racing form, I’m assuming heading into the last race, you know, obviously it had to have him, whatever, he’d run four times. So he was three or four heading in. Yeah. Just, you know, if I’m looking at time for us and time form us on the chart has him winning four races.

Um, And I’m, it says first for that race, I [00:26:00] don’t, you know, it doesn’t really matter. I’m just curious if they change. Uh, it says that he’s. Oh, it says that he’s three. Yep. It did have him. It did have him as is that not counting as a win? So I wonder if it’s possible that, I mean, it seems, I don’t know for the, it shouldn’t be, but it feels like for the modern thoroughbred, it might be ambitious to have it be Pegasus Saudi met mile.

I think we’re both in agreement, met miles and in some ways the race I’m the most excited to potentially see him running, but it doesn’t sound like you you’re ruling out the, the, that idea. No. I mean the horse, he won a mile and an eighth, well, he crossed the wire first impressively in a mile and an eighth race.

He wanted to turn mile and a race early in his career, uh, off of, you know, second time out. So I don’t think the distance is necessarily going to be an issue. Uh, you know, and, and he’s grown up. He’s, he’s, uh, he’s going to be a four year old and I just didn’t, I think that there’s a world in which. He’ll try to run in some, some two turn races this year, and they’ll try to pick up some [00:27:00] purses and into kind of add to his legacy.

I mean, I don’t see any reason to whisk him off to study at this point. One thing that strikes me looking at the time form UA, us paste figures in the chart is the efficiency with which he ran. It did remind me of. American Pharaoh and arrogant in their heydays, just in terms of this was not a horse that was desperately slowing down late.

The baseline being one 27, one 29, one 29, one 26. So slowing down. But you know, after those exertions that’s fair enough, but that, it just suggests to me a horse for whom. The extra two, furlongs very likely not an issue. And what do we make of Nashville heading forward? It’s not like his fractions were so crazy early.

They were fast. Uh, they, they, they didn’t get the, the, they didn’t get the red coding from time for them. I don’t imagine they missed by much. And that might be as much because of how fast Charlotte and finished as anything else. His pace line, one [00:28:00] 33, one 32, one 21, one 12. Just looking at that. Mixed too much.

Maybe he didn’t see out the seventh furlough. What do you think there was a, a narrative before Nashville debuted at Saratoga that he was a, a runoff and that, you know, he kind of only had one way of going and I tried to actually beat him that day. He stuffed me in a locker. Um, and I just think, I think that he’s probably going to be better going six for alongs.

Um, and he’ll win a lot of races this year, but he’s going to have trouble when he gets looked in the eye. Um, and he got, he didn’t get necessarily looked in the eye early in the race, but he, he charlatan was breathing on him the entire time. And I just think that once the real running started, he hadn’t put charlatan away at that point.

And I think it just broke him. You know, I think he’s a nice horse. I think he’s a fast, fast horse, but I think maybe the seven furlongs might not really suit him. The other thing to consider. Uh, just talking to two [00:29:00] different trainers in California, is that racetrack still deeper than most. And I think that sometimes, you know, seven furlongs on a deep racetrack for a horse, like Nashville that could be challenging for a horse that’s been training elsewhere.

So, um, I think that might have something to do with it as well. If I had Nashville, I would try to, uh, you know, I I’d, I’d try to point them to, uh, maybe the golden Shaheen, the sprint race, uh, in, in Dubai. Oh, that’s an interesting idea. He might, they might not know what hit them with that kind of speed from him.

It feels like to you, maybe the keys are six furlongs in a more glibly race track. That makes a ton of sense. Let’s move on to some of these other Santa Anita races. I know we’ve got a little bit of a clock on us today. I should have said that at the, at the top, probably not going to make the full hour, but you know, Hey, it’s the week between Christmas and new, year’s give us a break.

We’ll just, just super quickly. So we can toot our own horn. We’ll mention the lady of Shamrock stakes, JK. Where a nasty, who was both of our topic. And I think pretty much the nearly the only horse either of us mentioned. Yeah, I’m sure [00:30:00] we mentioned the counterparty risk too, but uh, nice win. And what I thought was an overlaid six to one, uh, wagering wise.

I wasn’t able to make anything out of that because I was so probably clearly too much keyed through Nashville, but, uh, were you able to get paid out of that race on that? The good opinion that we had on the day? Well, I appreciate the, the confidence that you think I’m so good that I picked it. The, I, I didn’t, I didn’t like the horse at all.

I said, Oh, I think I said that. I like L and J Foxwoods, but I don’t like nasty horse that didn’t couldn’t didn’t run well for Brad Cox. I didn’t really necessarily see how the horse is going to come out here and run well, beat Chad, beat some of these other ones. So that was all you, my man, I was not a nasty fan in the situation.

In fact, uh, when nasty cross the wire, I, I kind of felt a little bit like, ah, damn I was wrong. Pretty wrong there because I was against like, I didn’t even, I didn’t know backups. No. Yeah. I use, uh, counterparty risk as an a and I used Apple cross and the other, uh, the 10, uh, the [00:31:00] other Baltis and angel and angel were BS.

So, uh, I got beat by counterparty risk. Oh, well, there you go. I I’m sorry about that. I thought there was some Twitter prays that had complimented both of us on that, but I guess I was just, I guess this is just, that’s just turned into a completely accidental humblebrag and for that listeners, I apologize.

Let’s go back. Oh, let me ask you this though. Were you sitting on tickets that got blown up there or were you, did something go wrong? You know what? That’s a great podcast strategy that I’m going to put in my pocket. You give someone else credit. For your pic, you praise them and then that you didn’t know, they picked it.

And then by default, you’ve fallen into praising yourself, but you don’t look like you were praising you. So this is the old humblebrag magnificent let’s talk, American Oaks do wobbly. We did not. Uh, I don’t think either of us had on top, but I think we both mentioned as a. Potential wire threat ends up flipping Pratt ends up walking the dog [00:32:00] on the lead and getting the wind by two.

And let’s say interesting for if only for the jockey booking. Um, you wonder if Flavian prat might be getting more opportunities with these Chad Brown shippers in the future, based on the excellent job that he did. What happened here? JK was this, um, particularly good work by Pratt? Was this. Um, other facing the right field, was this other, jockey’s not being aggressive enough.

How would you characterize duopolies win? Which came back with a one 13 raw time form U S speed figure equating to a 93 buyer. Well, I guess there was a group text with flavor.  Mario Gutierrez, Johnny Velazquez, Drayton van Dyke, Joel Rosario, Ricardo Santana, Mike Smith and Berta Rispoli, uh, and a couple of others that said, Hey guys, we’re in New York.

We’re going to let someone walk on the front end. It didn’t look like a New York turf race. Duopoly is a nice source. He he’s, he’s kind of found this little niche where [00:33:00] he can get to the front end and kick on like a Chad Brown horse. Um, You know, I guess you’d kind of say like, maybe like a poor man’s, uh, a poor man’s rushing fall type.

He. You know, she, I just feel like it’s what we say all the time. And people probably think we’re being lazy. These East coast turf horses are just better. And when you give one of them like this three blue fractions on the front end, you’re not going to run by. And I think the other thing that can get lost is if you look at a lot of these other horses, their last races mile, and a 16th mile and three eights mile mile, and an eighth mile and a 16th mile and a 16th.

That there’s a, it’s a completely different race from a mile and a 16th to a mile and a quarter. And if you let a horse like duopoly go 49, one 14, one 38, they’re going to kick home. And that’s what we saw. I guess, sharing was probably the disappointment of the group. I thought she would run a lot better.

Um, But, you know, maybe Johnny just [00:34:00] wasn’t familiar with her, you know, Manny knows her well, and, and she could have been written a little bit differently, but I don’t see an excuse. She sat right off a duopoly and actually lost a little bit of ground to her and got passed in the stretch. So, uh, I don’t really see an excuse.

I won’t be cutting in line to bet do opoly in a bunch of races moving forward. Uh, but she has a nice horse. I think sharing, unlike what we both said, there, there was a question from a listener specifically about, are you worried about sharing, staying you and I both laughed it off. I sure didn’t seem like she saw out the trip.

She supposed to finish there with those fractions and she didn’t, I don’t think we’ll be seeing her. Um, beyond a mile and an eighth again, that would be my, that would be my excuse. She also might be better suited in a race where there’s another horse up there, dueling with the leader to like set things up for her.

But she just, she finished so little, I can’t blame the trip of the pace. I think it was the, think it was the distance. Yeah. You know, maybe in 10 years we’ll write a book and you can be my, uh, you can be the writer and I’ll just talk is [00:35:00] like pace makes the race kind of. Right. It’s like, I think a lot of times we just, we just think that that horses, if they get loose on the lead and they lose that they didn’t run well, but how did they get loose on a lead where they going fast or they going slow?

And I just feel like maybe she’s better off being more aggressive, maybe, you know, I like to say, what would she have run better if they went 47 to the half in that same position? I don’t know the answer maybe, but I think to just kind of, I think that it, it can be a dangerous proposition to suggest that she doesn’t want longer because she didn’t handle the trip going, going slow.

We shall see. I mean, uh, I would certainly trust and take it as a very relevant data point. What, where Graham motion puts her next. If he’s continuing to run her long, that’s going to put me much more in your frame of mind on that, but I’m going to, I’m going to go with the obvious conclusion for now. But as always, I try not to get too [00:36:00] wedded to those.

Obviously the other tricky part is though, it’s like, there’s not a whole lot of mile and a quarter races that she’s going to be running in. You know what I mean? There’s not a lot of look, she’s a grade one type Philly. She’s a, you know, she’s a grade one winner. They’re not gonna, you know, they’re not gonna just send her into a bunch of grade twos and grade threes.

So w what races is she actually gonna run in? You know what I mean? I feel like by default, her next race has to be a mile and a half. Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. So it might be a w it might be a while before we know, and, and we don’t know, we don’t even know the fate of the Arlington series at this point.

Do we. Um, no, it’s probably not looking good. It would be, if you were, if I were thinking of a mile and a quarter race, it would be there. I feel like short, maybe shorter Keelan, maybe another tilt that ask it, uh, you know, obviously not eligible for the race she ran in last year there, but anyway, in the hands she’s in, I’m trusting that we’re going to see better from her.

I think, I think there’s more to come. I would imagine some people out [00:37:00] there saying, Oh, well maybe. She hasn’t trained on et cetera, but I think you can conjure enough excuses that I’m still excited about sharing going forward, do opoly best on the day, poor man’s rushing fall. That’s very funny. And that might be the way that, that it plays out.

We’ll we’ll see. As the year, as the calendar turns at the year progresses, let’s move on JK back to race. Number eight. This is the one that, uh, the, that. Knocked you out of the late pick five, uh, in the grade one, libray going seven for a long. So the dirt fair maiden. Oh, Owen Hardy, getting the job done with a one 11 time form rating beating golden principle.

You and I were both just off here. Um, finite. I was expecting a lot more from, uh, fair maiden. Wha tell me your reaction after the races, this one that you went back and could find, or no, even after the race was run. You know, if we went, if I would’ve went first here, if I got to find the right setup, I was going to say, Pete, I mean, we nailed this race.

I mean, we couldn’t be any more. Right. [00:38:00] We both hated finite. She doesn’t want to sprint. And then you could have said, no, I liked finite. And then I could have been like, Oh you did.

I always like finite. It’s easy. Where maiden is interesting for me because she wanted Churchill. Very impressively on a day, it was a small field. And I think I made some dumb, I made some stupid, like trying to tell, you know, telling Andy like, Hey, it doesn’t matter if Andy played LeBron James on. On broken glass.

He was never going to win. He’s just, LeBron’s just better than, than, uh, than, than Andy at basketball. And then I realized that comparing fair maiden to LeBron, James was kind of a fail. Um, she ran well that day though, you know, at Churchill and, and, uh, she came back and ran big again. I mean, I couldn’t find her in this spot.

I felt like one of the baffles had to win or I was going to be wrong about finite, uh, provocation [00:39:00] had. Like fast works. Uh, I think had an, a minus on the workout report, which, and then, and then, uh, himiko had bad works, ran to them. It was just a weird race, how it all unfolded, but, uh, fair maiden ran. Well, you know, and the pace wasn’t like blistering fast.

It was quick. It’s none of it’s red on time form us. Um, But, you know, she ran well, let’s see. She she’s, uh, I think, I think this was her Swan song. I don’t see her winning a lot of great ones moving forward. I feel like we missed this one though. I just, when you look back to that Churchill race and the number earned there, and then the trip.

Um, the trip Akilah was bad. Like that was a race you could have just sort of thrown out. You go back, you key off the good Churchill race you build in two months worth of improvement. At least as a backup at 20 to one, I feel like this is one we can say we kind of screwed up there. Look, I think a lot of, I think a lot of people, if you didn’t watch [00:40:00] the replay, At Caitlin, what you should have, cause there’s like three horses in here.

Um, I can understand how you miss this one. I watched it. I just still didn’t. I mean, she did have trouble, but I just felt like she wasn’t good enough for these flies. She was a turf horse taking a shot. Um, and I just thought I was terribly wrong. That shot went in the net as if, uh, as if she were LeBron James.

So in that, in that sense, it all, it all comes full circle. Anything to take out of this race, going forward, any horses you’re. Interested in either betting against or, or betting on I, I am reconsidering my, my, uh, finite love affair, but, but I also think there, there might be better spots with her, her name on it.

Um, I’m keeping open to consideration, not an automatic bet back by any means though. How about you? Any, any others you’re looking forward to betting on or against? Yeah. And I think five nights probably. I think I took a couple of things from this one. I think finite is probably better off, um, you know, longer.

Um, and then, uh, gamin would have won this race by 47 links. [00:41:00] And Venetian Harbor could have won this race. So like to see her get back, I think this is, this is kind of the race. I feel like she always should have been running in, you know, this kind of seven furlongs at San Anita. Um, so we’ll see what happens with her golden principle, a word on her before we move on.

Now you said it wasn’t a race that was coded red on time form standards, but this was a track we’ve talked about. It was why it was, it was deep. She was wide. She did make what looked like a winning move before just being beat late by a perfect trip winner. Could golden principle be a player going forward or was this just the big day for her last time was the time.

The next time she runs always a little dubious when the exact is 20 to one in 12 to one about how good erase race actually is and how good those. Two horses are, um, the tote board is the best horse player, the best handicapper. And when you have two horses that run one, two at big prices, it kind of makes me question how good the race actually is.

So there’s not a whole lot in here [00:42:00] that I’m looking forward to betting back, including golden principles. Let’s talk quickly about the San Antonio kiss today. Goodbye. Getting the job done for Mike Smith at 15 to one of the big long shot winner. Now I know you were, as I was against mucho Gusto to the point where, uh, I kept everything on side, except for mucho Gusto in this spot, obviously mucho goose to the disappointment of the race kiss today.

Goodbye, one 21 on time form, roughly a hundred buyer. How good are the ones that finished? One, two, three. And what do we do with mucho Gusto? Yeah, another one I don’t think was a great race. I’ve never been a mucho Gusto fan. Um, I just don’t think mucho Gusto is that good? Um, I think he got, I got just a perfect situation in the Pegasus that day.

Uh, didn’t beat a whole lot that day and, um, You know, this is a frustrating situation because it feels like in races where I spread against two to five shots, two to five shots of Gallup, I was actually right. [00:43:00] I used kiss today. Goodbye. And I kind of, I used pretty aggressively. I didn’t really price the horse.

Like the horse was 15 to one, but then obviously, you know, I got, I got beat by fair maiden and then I got beat in the last, so I wasn’t really that close in the pick five. But, um, yeah. I mean, look, are any of these horses going to win the big cap? No. Are any of these horses going to shift the Saratoga when the Woodward?

No. Like when the met mile? No, the alley Sheba on Derby day, maybe, but not kiss today. Goodbye. I think that was the day for him. Mucho Gusto going forward. I mean, I can’t imagine you’re going to be getting on the train now, even if he goes on to the Pegasus, even though he may well have just needed the race, but, but, uh, I don’t know.

Baffert um, you know, you, you, you, your silver wagon, could you come around to this horse visa, decent price and the buzz is good heading into the next race. Uh, I mean, I shipped them to like Emerald downs where it rains all the time. He loves the mud and then, then maybe he can win some races. You, you have a hard out in about three minutes.

Is that right? Production meeting in the middle of the [00:44:00] show? No worries. Let’s do. Let’s just then we’re going to save some of these maidens, but let’s spend the next minute talking about, Hey, this is a winner. We did both half, uh, not too impressive in terms of odds for us, but we did say you could play.

Smooth like straight stone cold in your early pick five. And that proved to be the case. Rispoli doing a nice job, comes out one 18 raw on time for form. So, uh, very happy for Mike McCarthy and smooth, like straight. This one played out very nicely. The Rispoli did a great job. Didn’t really fully press the issue early.

Didn’t do that. The hell bent for leather to the lead let’s storm. The court have the lead took over when ready and made no mistakes. Anything to add on this one. And do you think a storm, the court has finally maybe found a home. Yeah, maybe he has found a home on the, on the grass. Obviously you had some talent and did some things as a, as a two year old.

Um, and I think that he would, you know, helps him from a value standpoint and our [00:45:00] friends, uh, Ryan Exline so rooting for him on the grass. I’ve never been overwhelmed by him as a dirt horse, but he seems to have found a little bit of interest on the grass. So I’m sure we’ll see him there more often, especially out in California.

It’s not like it’s the toughest place to win grass. Race is smooth, like straight. To me as an East coast turf horse, that happens to be training on the West coast. Uh, Michael McCarthy has a lot of experience, uh, working with Todd and, and being on the East coast and knowing how to, how to handle a good turf horse.

The interesting part about this race as I was talking to Michael was obviously disappointed when smooth, like straight got beat. Down at Del Mar. And, uh, I was talking to, uh, McCarthy and offer it up my unsolicited advice and just said, Rispoli needs to ride smooth, like straight, like he’s being chased by a T-Rex in Jurassic park and, and, uh, and right when they broke from the gate, he took back and was sitting second.

And in that moment, I usually would be like, cussing them, like, what are [00:46:00] you doing? But I realized that that was a great plan. It’d be because Johnny clearly was trying to get the lead on storm the court. So that was a great audible by Rispoli. Cause I know that Michael had had it expressed that he wanted Rispoli to ride the horse aggressively as well.

And the cutback, the horse was faster than everyone else and it just made sense to ride him that way. And it was a good audible by Rispoli and congratulations to, uh, to McCarthy and his team. All right, we’re going to let you go and take your call. I’m trying to think how we do this tech wise. I think you should just like mute and go about your business.

That way I can upload your file. You know, we don’t, we don’t want to almost lose a show like you did with Mira Mati the other day. No stress. I’ll ask you more about that, but I know you’ve got to do this other call, but leave it on all. Talk through the listeners. My thoughts on a couple of these maidens real quick, and then I’ll just do the close and we’ll be done and you and I will talk.

Okay. Late week, hopefully going over Santa Nita on Saturday, but thank you very much. My friend ETFs. All right. Just [00:47:00] wanted to get a couple of other notes in here on some of the maiden action from over the weekend. This second race at Santa’s definitely worth mentioning. Wipe the slate. Very impressive. In victory.

I thought, um, earning a one Oh three time form us figure, getting the job done over affable, who basically. Ran the same good race as the first day and has just had the misfortune of running into some pretty good horses, um, in that, in that time. And the other interesting aspect of this race, I thought with wipe the slate.

Was that there’s a form boost in here for life is good. The Baffert runner who was so impressive running the one 14 time for him, us and easily handling wipe the slate last time by nine and a half. So if wipe the slate is this good life is good, is really, really good. As I think was the Larry comas call that day.

So these are horses, especially [00:48:00] life is good, obviously, but also wipe the slate to some degree. Um, and maybe even affable if he continues to develop, you know, we’re not big Derby list makers around here, but horses that does should be on the radar as potentially really good, uh, as potentially really good three-year-olds as the year progressed is going to be hearing a lot more from us on triple crown stuff.

Hopefully we’re going to get, let loose. Revived before, too long as well. Um, and that, that, that should be a lot of fun. And then there was some, there was some action also in terms of three-year-old maidens at. Gulf stream. Give me a minute here. As I hunt up the charts that at least one horse I wanted to mention, I wanted to get, actually get JFK’s take on this one and we’ll definitely we’ll bring the topic back around the next time we’re doing a little bit of review.

They’ll still certainly be opportunities going forward, but it was a horse with a terrific pedigree named amount. By [00:49:00] Curlin out of a pulpit mayor good-looking Claiborne family was heavily bet, uh, to eight to five and just had one of those visually arresting moves. But the figure did not come back that strong at all.

Only a 90 on the time form scale. So roughly a 70 buyer, less than average maiden winner. And I couldn’t help notice looking back at this one that even with that sick pedigree, this horse, um, sold, I think for less than, than the Kerlin stud fee. So there might be some physical issues or something underlying here.

I think this is a horse that a lot of people are going to get caught up on the visual impression of when the reality is that. It might just been the right group of horses to make this one look like an absolute superstar. So just want to start paying attention to some of these three-year-olds another I’ll mention for Gulf stream was I thought very impressive and ran a considerably better time.

Maybe one that has me as interested [00:50:00] as some of those ones on, on the West coast, especially given the hands that he’s in greatest honor was terrific. Winning a two to five. It was a interesting potential. Rival in dynamic won on the day. Greatest honor gets the job done with a one Oh four raw time form figure.

Um, not the easiest trip either got bumped at the start had plenty of running to do, had to alter course a little bit. This horse is very professional and we’ve seen these McGee runners as they progress from two to three, they don’t need to be all that good at two to make a lot of noise at three. So for one to do what greatest honor already did.

This is a horse that I very, very tempted to pay serious attention to going forward. And, uh, I just wanted to make sure the greatest honor was on everybody’s radar as we, uh, as we move forward, this one being by tap it out of the street. Cry. Damn Tiffany’s honor. Okay. I think that’s all that [00:51:00] I had on my notes list.

We are going to be a little short today, but, and I don’t think anybody minds it is the week between Christmas and new year’s after all. Thank you, JK. Thank you to our founding partners, thoroughbred retirement foundation, 10 strike racing. Most of all, the thanks to all of you, the listeners, you really supported us through this trying year.

I didn’t know, you know, April, I didn’t know what was going to happen with the show we made the decision. To keep doing it. We at one point had basically our annual, you know, money that we needed to make the show go basically agreed upon in deals, take it off the table. We decided they keep pressing on folks, rewarded us by coming back and new partners coming in and all partners stepping up and making this the most successful year.

Uh, that that we’ve had, and we look forward to more of the same. We can only do it with your support. With that in mind, we are going to be deep viewing something new. I’ve mentioned it before ITM. Plus, [00:52:00] this is going to be, uh, just, uh, some additional services. If you will, from us. Part of it is going to be.

Me publishing notes on the shows. So if you don’t have time to take notes, if you’re in a hurry, even if you can’t listen to a show one week and you want to just see who we picked, you’re going to be able to go to a special place on the website and see that info. And then you’re also going to be getting extra podcasts.

Some of them will be on things like mandatory payouts and surprise carry-overs things that we don’t have sponsored. If we can get attract to sponsor it, we’re going to be giving it out. Obviously for free, but the idea is to create some extra content. That’s just for the people, our most loyal listeners and the people who step up and do this ITM.

Plus with us, it’s going to be a monthly thing, 10 bucks a month. We’ll get you those notes and we’ll get you at least two extra podcasts, probably more. We’re going to see how it shakes out. I’m going to give a free sample over the course of the next couple of days. Over this weekend. [00:53:00] Anyway, I’ll, I’ll show you what those notes are gonna look like.

Just so you have an I D a of what you’re getting into and what some of the podcasts might be like. As far as that goes, the new content. I am going to do a, a horseplayer interview on Monday that will be free on the channel, but an example of the type of horseplayer interview content we’ll be doing, going forward.

That’s going to be with Jake Jacobs of racing. Flo, who’s always a great listen and has been very influential. In my horseplaying as well. So anyway, that’s going on, if you don’t want to do it, no worries at all. You’re still going to get as much free content as you’ve always gotten. And that’s going to be great too, but this is another way.

Uh, we can make ourselves a little bit more independent, I think. And, uh, just a chance to come up with some more fun things for the, the real diehards out there among you. It’s all going to be done through sub stack, much more information to come. Best thing to do. If you’re curious, make sure you’re signed up for our newsletter in the money

Okay. That’s it, this show’s been a [00:54:00] production of in the money media. Our business manager is drew Courtney, our chief creative officers, Jonathan kitchen. I’m Peter Thomas foreign Italian. May you win all your photos.

you. [00:55:00]

 hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is our show for Tuesday. December 15th. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign Forna. Tau back with you in the Brooklyn bunker. Once again, in the midst of this holiday season, this is something we’d like to do from time to time. Unfortunately. Uh, Mugsy the handicapping Labrador, huge fan of these shows, as you can hear, unfortunately, we haven’t really had that much time to do them this year because we’ve been so busy, but this is one of our it call it a listener appreciation show, hashtag ask ITM show.

We’ve done some of these with voicemails as time has gone on, but where the programming is really provided by you, the listeners, a lot of fun, we got a lot of great questions for the show, really looking forward to it. [00:56:00] Uh, before I bring in the co-host, I just have to say. We’ve done now. I don’t know, going back to 2014, I’m just estimating here.

But if you factor in all of the shows we’ve done for like lone star and stuff like that, we’ve probably done, I don’t know, 700 podcasts. This is the single most difficult one we’ve ever had getting, going with the technology. Not quite sure why, but anyway, I think we have worked our way around it now. And now we will bring in the man who hails from the planet, Texas.

And we know him as the people’s champion, nearly. The breeders’ cup betting challenge champion, but, uh, that honor was denied in a, in a well-known story that we’ll probably get to at some point during this show, of course, I’m talking about Jonathan kinship, JK what’s up. PTF. Uh, what’s the word? Yeah. And you were, uh, we were struggling a little bit.

Weren’t we to get rolling here? Desperate, desperate seeds. And I really, the bad news is we didn’t solve anything in the big picture of life. So like, I just know now this’ll be waiting for us the next [00:57:00] time we want to do a show, but hopefully these. You know, th th this lo-fi set up today, won’t offend anybody too much.

Uh, the, the native microphone in the, in the Mac is, is pretty good. Unlike a hi, I recorded a couple of shows the other week where I kind of forgot about the quality between Mac and PC microphone. And I just sounded God awful, but you know, it shouldn’t be as bad as that we should be back headed in the right direction.

Now. Uh, what’s going on, man? What have you been up to. Um, nothing much. Do you know the Fox shows or pause for the moment we picked back up? And I think February, there’s been some talk about maybe a little earlier than that, so, uh, we’ll keep an eye on that, but, uh, she’s been hanging out, man. Really? It’s been, it’s been a.

It’s feel the weather has been really nice here in Texas still. And he was like 80 something the other day. So the sun still comes out and plays. It was a little bit chillier the last few days. So maybe just hanging out and getting ready for the, for the holidays. And, and then, uh, and then the new year that I think we’ve all been waiting for.

What is [00:58:00] your racing interest mainly at this time of year? Are you in a little bit of a pause? Are you like me looking excitedly at New York everyday? And the good cards they’ve been putting together? Are you a Tampa early adopter? How do you allocate your wagering dollars and attention? Yeah, I catch myself like looking at a lot of PPS and like not finding a lot of things that, you know, bent backs or more trip horses or, or, you know, young, you know, two year olds or whatever.

So, um, you know, I thought, I thought Gulf stream was pretty good. Last weekend. I had a couple of steaks, um, you know, uh, Our friends and Matisse brothers and, and, uh, rich Avril ran panty price for the last time. Last Friday, I tuned into that. They won the grade three with ladies Island on Saturday. So I was checking that out.

And then, and then ATM, uh, Anthony Materra, our buddy that, uh, that came on for the Stronick show. When you were out a couple of weeks ago, they had a horse, uh, our audio’s Jersey, that one first out for them. And so I, you know, [00:59:00] I was checking out Gulf stream and then also, obviously there’s those stakes as well on, on Saturday.

So. And then aqueduct always, you know, I’m so plugged in with Naya now with, with doing the shows and being up there for Saratoga. Um, I find myself. Playing more New York than I used to in the past, you know, and just, it was just another track now. And it’s almost kind of turned into my home circuit just cause I looked at it so much.

It makes sense. And also just to help you down the line, you’ll be talking about these horses all year. So you got to get aligned on what the form is at this time of year to help understand what’s going to happen a little bit of a little bit later. That makes absolutely perfect sense to me. We’re going to do a little bit shorter.

We lost some time because of the tech mess ups. I’ve got a hard out. Because I’ve got a lunch in the city, uh, I’m doing a, uh, a socially distant lunch with Harvey pack. Uh, so I’m excited to get the opportunity to see him. But anyway, that’s why we might go a little short if we don’t get to all the questions and we might not because there are so darn many of them, [01:00:00] we will do another one of these before the holidays comes.

Not a whole lot of recapping to do in my opinion, the next few weekends, so that this could be a good early show bit. Other stuff we have planned. We’re going to do an eclipse show later in the week. Are you excited for that? I am. I’m excited. Looking forward to that did, uh, did kind of a little, little eclipse preview in one category yesterday with my JK plus one episode that we’ll release, right.

I’m going to release it right after we get done recording this. So, uh, it should come up Tuesday morning, depending on when you hear this. But I’m looking forward to that. I had, uh, Randy Hill and George Weaver on to talk about McComber and, uh, you know, that horse and then also just their involvement in the game.

And, and, uh, so I had an hour with each of them and, and that was fun. And then, yeah. Uh, to make the ask ITM questions even more interesting, Pete, I don’t know if you noticed this yet, but ITM Tanzania limited, we offer services and human resource solutions, training recruitment, and business to business solutions in Tanzania, in Africa, they are [01:01:00] also ITM and they have asked ideas.

That’s so funny. I didn’t know the Tanzanian connection. That’s very exciting. Yeah, they’re, they’re gonna they’re they’re, they’re hiring a sales manager. If you’re interested. There you go. So you can go on there. You can ask JK about how we use this pace in his handicapping and did apply for a position in Tanzania.

It’s like many birds with one stone here with the ask ITM, Ash tech. I was wondering why there were so many messages today. Um, let’s do this a little differently. Usually I just kind of moderate, but let’s, uh, let’s bandy back and forth. Since we have so many questions. I have some that aren’t from the Twitter as well.

That we’ll try to get to, but w why don’t you kick us off? What’s what’s a listener question. You feel like answering. Yeah. Uh, well, we’ll start with the first one at horsing around, uh, w a asked two questions. We’ll go with the easy one first and then the harder one the first, well, the second one, actually, if you look at it, is Hamilton on Disney plus alone on Netflix or Queen’s gambit on Netflix.

And the answer is all three of them. They’re all good. Hamilton’s great. On Disney plus. Um, I tried to watch it with Austin. He got [01:02:00] a little bit bored. It does go a little bit over the younger ones heads. Cause they have no idea what the hell is going on, but he was still kind of interested in the, in the sounds of it.

Um, uh, alone on Netflix is really good. What is that? I don’t even know that one. Essentially they, they, they drop off like 12 people in the same kind of wilderness climate, but they’re not in connection with each other and they get like 10 items to bring along with them and then they just have to survive.

And the longest one, whoever stays the longest wins the money, but they don’t know who they don’t know if there’s 12 people left. If it’s down to two, they don’t know if they’re the only one. And so it’s a reality show. It’s really, but it’s. Yeah, but it’s not like corny game reality show. It’s just straight up.

You’re either making it or you’re not. And if you’re not, you quit, they come pick you up and you leave or you stay as long as you can. Uh, and they’re hunting squirrels and all kinds. It’s cool. Cool. And then the Queens game, but obviously I’m sure you’ve heard of his, I’ve actually seen that one and loved it.

Yeah. Really good. Yeah, really good [01:03:00] book from back in the day. And then, uh, it’s got some, some fantastic, uh, casting in there. Other, the creator, Scott, Frank has done a number of good things. And then, uh, Andrea Taylor, Joyce, just a, it’s fantastic to watch how she plays that character for, you know, like a 10 year span completely.

I told someone you wouldn’t. You wouldn’t be a, the show would not be nearly as good as they would have cast someone else. Like, part of it is like, she’s just like, it’s, she’s like captivating, you know, in a way just her, her, even when her like non-verbal movements are just so interesting. Um, the other question down in class, up in class, now this is something that is.

It’s always been kind of tricky because the condition books and in North America can get so confusing with this, that, that the other, the orders and all of that stuff. One of the things you can do, if you really want to understand this is it’s easier. If you’re at one circuit is to write in an Excel sheet, put all of the conditions you can find and just go, [01:04:00] go, go, go, go, go, go.

And if you, you can do some back research and try to get average. Pays for, I mean, average figures for that class. That’s one way to go about it, to try to understand whether or not this is a higher class or a lower class, so on or so forth. And then the other thing, the easy thing you can do is just go to you.

Can, you know, time form us with our race ratings. I have found to be pretty effective when trying to identify if there’s a change in class, um, when it comes to allowances and claimers and, um, And, you know, I think it gets confusing when you have the beaten claimers, right? The non winners of two, the non winners of three, the so on and so forth.

But, um, I’ve kind of gotten wrapped my brain around those. Obviously the non winners of one is easier than the non winners are two, which is easier than the non winners of three. And the hardest is an open. Claiming 10. So, you know, it’s so, because anyone can run in that. And so it’s tough. It’s tough. But if you’re having [01:05:00] a tough time with it horsing around waa, I would cheat with Tom form us.

Yeah. That’s the easiest thing I wrote down two notes, as you were talking, one is using par figures for the different classes and yes, the buyer team doesn’t provide them if there’s under a certain amount of races, but you can do it yourself and you can, you can estimate and use, um, You know, your intuition to make educated guesses about what the par would be.

And you could even do it just looking at the given horses in an individual race, if you really need something quick and dirty. So the par figures for each class and then the time form. But the other note I wrote was Typeform us race ratings is a great way to, cause that’s not just looking at the class that is doing some work about the specific group of horses.

And, you know, not all maidens from Saratoga are going to have the same race rating. They’re going to be adjusted up or down based on what that group of horses does. So in a way it’s more useful information to me. So that actually, if it’s a circuit, you’re in it, you don’t ever play. Like if you’re [01:06:00] playing, you know, a, you know, pick five, carry over it.

It who cares downs. It helps. I’m trying to get them as a sponsor. Actually it helps when, you know, you know, you can try to help identify where that is. Good stuff. I had a, I’ll go to one that didn’t use the hashtag, but we’ll let it in off the goalpost from Andrew doing a bourbon exchange with some friends and looking for recommendations on a bottle in the 45 to $75 range.

First one that came to mind for me, a bottle. I think we’ve talked about on here before. There’s a lot of different four roses iterations out there, but there’s one that I absolutely love called small batch select. It’s a blend of like four different old barrels and it just came out amazing and it’s very reasonably priced and you also can find it places.

You know, I could give you a bunch of, I could sit here and talk about, you know, Dicko bottled in bond, you know, good luck finding that anywhere near the MSRP. Like this [01:07:00] four roses, small batch select, you can find, um, I’m a big fan of wilderness trail. They’ve got a couple of different iterations. The one I really like has rye in the mash bill.

They have a weeded one, which is also good, but the one with Ryan, the mash bill, I think it’s going to sit. Right in that price range, something different and really interesting. And again, you can find it and I will give you one that might be harder to find, but I’m a big fan of that old Forester distillers row series.

So it’s like these different historical recipes and things. And the two that I really like are, I mean, I like them all. I like all four, but the 1910. Is excellent. It’s their take on sort of the, the double Oaked idea. It’s got a secondary aging in a, in a new Oak cask to replicate something that happened after a fire in 1910.

And it’s got those like really sweet, lovely barrel notes. Um, I really like the 90 10 and then the [01:08:00] 1920, this is a great little historical tidbit JK. This is whiskey that was legal. During prohibition because it was, it was deemed to be medicine and it’s, it’s at a higher proof and it’s very intense and good if you like higher proof stuff that 1920 the prohibition.

Recipe’s great. Anyway, there’s are a few ideas of bourbons in that, in that price range. Uh, JK, have you gotten into that, that bottle of bourbon I sent you recently? No, I’m, I’m saving that one. I got to let that one. Uh, I’m gonna let that one marinate for a little while. I will say this. Um, and I don’t think I’ve even told you this, Pete, now I’ll send you the article.

I’m sure you’ll love it. I, uh, was sending our friend Jake ballast a thank you. And I sent him a bottle of bourbon. Called Garrison brothers. And it’s a Texas whiskey first legal Texas. And, uh, I did it, you know, cause Jake’s from Texas, but I also didn’t, you know, it had a nice reviews and I said, Jake absolutely loves it.

He said, I wish you would have never done that. I can’t stop [01:09:00] getting it. That’s all I buy now. And it’s a really cool story because it is in Texas. And I do know I get it. The bourbon, not in, you know, gotta be in Kentucky thing. It’s it’s um, It’s it’s it’s, it’s just really cool. What they found out is that some of the in Kentucky, some of the barrels that do the best are the ones that, or the highest in the barn, which means they get the most heat from the roof.

And obviously in Texas, it’s hot as hell. And so it’s helped with, you know, with the whole process. And it’s a really cool story. So Garrison brothers read about it. It’s really, really interesting. I’ve heard good things that I haven’t tried it. And that’s gonna motivate me to, uh, to look for it a little bit more.

I had sent you the maker’s Mark. It was a special bottling of maker’s Mark. I can’t remember what the specific labels. The specific writing on the label was it was one of their 20, 20 limited release bottles. Good luck finding it. I know it, it took me forever. Uh, but I did eventually find your bottle. We were drinking that there’s that great bourbon bar at keenly.

I [01:10:00] can’t wait to go back and check this place out. You can get. All of these whiskeys, that would be like $2,000 a bottle. If you could find them for, you know, the around 30 a shot, you know, Eagle rare 18 and things like that. And for whatever reason, I was like, Hey, let’s try this. And you, you, you, that was right when you hit your stride.

In the breeders cup betting challenge. So we just, I just kept, I kept feeding it to you for those last couple of races and, uh, so yeah, to commemorate your fantastic results in the BCBC, I was able to find that bottle and send it to you. You gotta let me know if it’s as good now as it was on the day when we get the, when we get the chance, uh, anything else on, on whiskey J K or should I move on?

I’ve got another one. Ready if you’re, if you go ahead, go ahead. So. This is a breeders cup betting challenge question. And it actually came in through Eric Bilich and I thought it was worth talking about, because it’s just, just such an interesting market dynamic question. Is he pointed out [01:11:00] that if so, basically for those that don’t know in the Breeder’s cup betting challenge, JK achieved his fantastic final score by doing an all in Dutch double.

Combining, I think it was four horses in the breeders’ cup turf with four horses in the class. And he did that. I say Dutch double. It was using Dutch principles, but weighted, according to his opinion, Eric pointed out that if you had taken the money bet in the double on Tarnoff Iowa. So let’s say there was.

I’m just making this up. You, you might know what was it like 50,000 of it might’ve gone through Tarnow. Does that sound right? Right. If you’d taken that money and bet it to when you’re actually right. Would have ended up with a significantly better score, uh, closer, closer to 200,000. And he was just, he was asking for, for comment on you.

Go ahead. Yeah. So one of the things that, and it’s actually great, we talked about, I sent the, I tweeted that article and I sent it to the, to our group text [01:12:00] about resulting. And that, to me, that is a perfect example of resulting because yes, resulting whole thing is by looking at the results and then question, and then doubting your method of getting to that decision and whether or not that was a bad decision or a good decision based on the results you can’t in this game.

And in other games and other parts of life, you cannot. You cannot make, you cannot judge your decision making process based on the result on a one off result. And so here’s, here’s the reason why here’s the answer to that question for Eby is if the problem is, is that authentic was not my top choice.

Authentic was my third choice who I actually faded a little bit when doing the math to do the double, my strong opinion was, uh, improbable and Tom’s to TA which both. Put me well above. If I remember correctly, I think they both put me above 300 or one puts me at two 50. The other one puts me at 300.

[01:13:00] Either way, if either one of those two horses who were my top choices, when I make more than if I would’ve just bet Karnala, that’s a good point and there’s more to it. So it just, it, it actually, I shot for the stars and landed in the clouds with authentic. That was not that I was not, you know, he was like kind of my, my third or fourth choice.

The other thing though is Tarnower paid like crazy well and not predictably. So. On the tote. And it’s funny because early in the week, I remember I think it was a seven to two morning line and it, the horse was, she was seven to two, four to one in the bedding in the UK. And you know, I, obviously anybody who heard the shows knew from early on, she was going to be one, I was betting.

So I was monitoring that very closely and having, you know, nearly daily conversations with Rob dove, one of the top 10 pro punters in the UK today about when we should. You know, bet this thing. And we actually bet, um, not early in the week, but I think it was like early on [01:14:00] Friday. Cause we were starting to think that the seven to two was going to go into three to one, the way people were betting on betting exchanges, et cetera.

So we ended up just going ahead and taking the seven to too early. So then w which is funny, cause I do remember early on thinking. Yeah, she’ll probably drift on the tope, but then she was so strong in the international markets. I thought, you know, seven to two, four to one, maybe in the tote. And you know, when you’re betting the kinds of money that you were betting, if you get seven to two instead of nine to two, I don’t think anybody’s going to be second guessing the way that you, the way that you put that, the way that you put that money through, does that make, does that make sense to you?

No. Of course. Yeah, no. I mean, it’s, you know, a lot of it is hindsight, right. In a situation like that. I wanted, you know, if, if I, if I was gonna, you know, kind of hindsight the thing, and then my, my thought would have been, what if [01:15:00] I would’ve just done those doubles without using those without being scared?

Cause I didn’t love magical. Um, but I used defensively. I thought channel maker could win, but was up against, it would have to have a perfect scenario. And then, uh, the horse who’s the 10 Mo who’s it mogul smoker and mogul was, I did like mobile. Um, and I wanted to use mogul. I could’ve got away with Tarnow and mogul and probably still one, but that’s all, but I’m resulting here, right?

Like, yeah. I don’t think it would have been smart to leave magical out. I think I really would have questioned that. I, I, I, if you’d asked me, I would’ve said, yeah, fade channeled Laker, no USA horse is going to hit the top three in here. It was exactly what I would have said. Now having said that I would have been, uh, potentially needing to change clothes at the eighth pole.

You know, like the way the restart out showed that, even though I was right, that no American hit the board, I feel like after watching the race. The defensive move was probably the right move. Given how long into the race, the horse, the horse looked like winning, you know, [01:16:00] so it’s, it’s, it’s tricky and you’re, you’re making these split second decisions and, and, you know, with magical, I just feel like on, I mean, uh, on class, on form, on everything you’re supposed to, you’re supposed to keep her in the mix there.

So I, I think, I think that all works. There’s another aspect to this though, that I think is interesting and. Potentially strategic, which is, if you do hit the wind bet, then you’re sitting out there with this new target for everybody to shoot for. And right. It really feels like a lot of the best players are in that last race are just looking at what the target number is and trying to get there.

So it’s also possible. I don’t know. This is just the in theory. I’m not trying to apologize for you too much, but it’s also possible that you put up that new target people play that last race. You know, Marshall grant plays that last race completely differently and maybe he hits it bigger colder, you know?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Right. Um, here’s a good one. This [01:17:00] is fun. Um, if you had to make a calendar by racetracks and meats in which you would only go to that track for the month, what would your calendar look like? For example, in August, you could only do Saratoga, but would need to select another track for July.

This is fun. All right. Um, I’ll need your help a little bit before January, I would do goals. Yeah, I think, I think that’s right. I think that’s, I mean, you could, you could, you could make a fairgrounds case, but I mean, let’s, let’s go to the sunshine February. I would do. Uh, I want to say I would do. Okay February, I would do.

Oh, no, not Oakland. Get there later. What about Santa Anita for January Gulf stream for February? When are we going to get to, we got to get to Santa Anita at some point the Pegasus. So I went to Pegasus. I want to go to, I want to go to say, I want to go to Gulf stream and in January let’s say Santa Nita in February.

Okay. Okay. Let’s go to Oaklawn and [01:18:00] March. I’m good with that. And then we’ll go to, uh, Keene Lynn and April. That was the easiest. One of them all. We’ll go to Churchill and may I’m okay with that, but that’s not good. That’s not controversial. J K watch this though. Oh, we’ll go to other diseases. We’re going to Belmont in June.

This is beautiful. We’ll go to, uh, we’ll we’ll look. The first part of the month, we’ll be in some trouble will not have much to do, but we’ll go to Del Mar in July. Cause they open, they usually open a week earlier than Saratoga so we can have that whole open of the meat. Yeah. But we’ll check out some breweries and go to the beach, learn to surf.

You know, there’s plenty to do out there in North County. Yup. And then August we go to.

Okay. In a one to 10 million for your now September. What if we go to Woodbine? Woodbine, baby. Beautiful, beautiful October. We’ve already used Caitlin. Yeah, we can’t go back to [01:19:00] Keeneland. You know, here’s where February can get tricky. If we, in October, if we use Santa Anita in October. Ooh, that’s interesting.

And then maybe fairgrounds for February fairgrounds for February, or we could do. Uh, we can do, we can do aqueduct for February. They got all the good three old races. Yeah. I mean, New York in February though. If I’m, if I’m drawing, if I’m thinking about my travel year, uh, you know, as much as I love, uh, the New York racing circuit, but I’m thinking where I’d rather be at February, it’s, I’m going to probably pick new Orleans over February.

Oh, that’s, that’s awesome. What if we go back to San Anita for February and then in October, is that w what European meet should we go? Oh, I didn’t know that we had that. I didn’t know. I didn’t know that we had that as, as a possibility. It’s tough, of course. Cause you know, we’re only going to get a few days here and there, but you could hit ask it for champions day.

Well, there it is. That’s an interesting thought November. Um, I think this one can just be wherever the breeders’ cup is. Yep. Wait, just follow the breeders cup around and we’ll rejigger the whole [01:20:00] schedule to get there. So yeah, that would mess us off. Yeah. Uh, that, that might be your aqueduct, you know, a little Christmas in New York.

See the tree the whole bit. Yes, that’s nice. That’s nice. I’m with you on that. Um, I’m going to hate that. I don’t get Santa Anita opening day, but I could deal with it. That was a good question. Yeah, that was a very good question. Yeah. Obviously there’s a million different ways you can go there. But I think as, as a first blush, as a first blush, we’ll take that one.

Do you have another one ready? Uh, let’s see. Uh, no, I’m just going to read it. I don’t know if it’s good or not. Uh, this is Oh, and that was from Ryan Caulkins, uh, at R Y C a L K Y. Um, and then this one is from, at Barchie man, be a R C H Y M a N. Was there anything racing, non racing or both that you were.

Compelled to give up during this year that has turned out to be beneficial so that you don’t see yourself going back to it. I don’t know what that means. I think just like the way our lifestyles have changed, um, you know, is there, [01:21:00] I mean, I miss so many things. I miss traveling, I’ll say this, you know, as much as I miss traveling and dining out and stuff like that.

And as much as I’ve rediscovered, you know, Wanting to wanting to cook and do like homebody type stuff as a result. I will say this, I want to achieve a little bit more balanced going forward. Not like the crazy travel that life once was, but not, um, obviously wouldn’t willingly go through the, the restrictions that we’ve had to deal with in 2020, but you know, most of the things I just miss, you know, th th there’s not a lot that there’s nothing that leaps to mind for me in that category.

What about you? Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I went from I’ve flown. Twice this year. Well not, I flown twice since March. Um, and since 2015, that number at this point would be, you know, closer to a hundred already at this point. So that’s been interesting. I’ve been home a lot more and that’s been nice, [01:22:00] but at the same time, like I do miss.

I miss doing and miss doing, you know, I’m ready to do. And I’ve joked that as soon as all this thing kind of clears up, you’re, it’s gonna be hard to keep. I’m not even going to unpack my suitcase. I’m going to want to be moving around. Um, but that’ll probably die off pretty quickly though. You got that, uh, that, that road, the call of the road.

Very important thing in JK. So if we had a question about music, uh, the different music on shows on the network, I’m not sure if I can tell you all of them, but, uh, we had a specific one about the song at the end of these in the money players podcast. And that one’s easy. That’s racetrack by my friend, Nick County.

I used to live with him. In Saratoga and other old sour Toga roommate who has gone on to a successful career as a musician and wrote this great song about going to the racetrack and you hear it at the end of every show. If you want more from Nick County, you can look him up. He’s got music out there on Spotify, et cetera, but I also did.

I think [01:23:00] I did a basically an hour or half hour sit down with him at some point where he played some music live and, uh, and we had a great time. And there was a question specifically JK about the song that kicks off the J K plus one shows where you found it, who’s it by et cetera. Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s called it’s funny.

Like I’ve seen different versions of it. I’m not sure exactly how it works, but let me just tell you what we did. We, we subscribed to this music, stock music, uh, website, because if you have. You know, if we, even, if we use one of my brother’s songs, his label would block it for copyright and then it gets taken down off of YouTube or it gets blocked on Apple podcasts, whatever.

So you have to have a song that you actually have the rights to so that they don’t do that. And so we pay, you know, whatever it is yearly to use a song we were going through. And I found that curious George song, and it’s listed that it’s by Onyx. Not the band Onyx that I don’t think the band Onyx that we all remember from the nineties, you know, the one that’s saying jump [01:24:00] out a little different, right?

Yeah. But, but I’ve also seen someone who found the song on Apple music under someone else’s name. And I can’t remember who it is. I’ll find someone to tweet it, but I want to say like, Nick, anyways, it’s weird, but it’s, this song is listed as Bionics, but I think it might be signed by someone else who actually has it on like a different situation.

And that’ll a link if you can. Cause I think a lot of people would be interested in the name of the song was curious, George though, I will say that. I didn’t know that I was going to guess that I think I would have got that in one. And you mentioned your brother who you do here on the, in the money network.

Uh, at the beginning of red board rewind, how did that, how did that one work around the copyright issue you mentioned before we just hoping that nobody notices, I dunno, I, I didn’t, I asked his manager, um, if it was cool and I think she, maybe she asked someone at Sony and they said it was fine, but I don’t feel like they like really went around.

I don’t think, I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t know exactly how the other shoe to drop on that one. In other words, Spencer, have something else already. That [01:25:00] manager’s since been fired, but, um, we’ll see what happens. Sounds like a whole other story for those that don’t know. Uh, cause we have new listeners all the time.

According to the stats, we look at J K his brother, famous DJ MK and produced, not just the DJ, also a producer. So that’s what that’s, that’s what that’s about. Uh, what else you got for us, Jay? I think we got a few more here. Yeah, let’s see. Um, here’s a question that you maybe you’ll know the answer faster, um, newbie, horse racing question.

What’s the easiest non no-cost way to find out about takeout for a race that seems important for people to understand. I, I do know if I’m not mistaken. I have seen on an wager that they do show that, Oh, they do. I mean, uh, the Hannah website course. It’s updated though. Okay. But it’s not updated. No good starting point.

Yeah. You could also email all the folks over there and I bet they would have all the info you’re looking for. That’s HorsePlayers of North America. If you do, you know, Hannah horse [01:26:00] racing or something, you’ll be able to find their website and they’ve got that info. Yeah, your, your ADW probably has a table somewhere.

It is a darn shame. It’s not easier. Here’s a project for an enterprising listener. We’re often hearing for people who want to get involved and help out. If somebody wants to be the custodian of this and have this be, I have this vision. For having some horseplayer tools on the site, we haven’t even talked about this yet JK, but like a spreadsheets to help with organizing your betting thoughts, et cetera, with the news that a ticket maker is going to be going behind a payroll paywall.

I was wondering if there might be an enterprising listener out there, you know, who you are, who might be willing to share that. Um, it’s, it’s going to be the DRF it’s going behind the DRF plus paywall. So if you bet a certain amount of DRF, not an option for you in Texas, or if you, I think it’s like 20 a month, but I was thinking it might [01:27:00] be good if we could just put up a, you know, it wouldn’t be as good as the proper ticket maker.

Cause it’s not going to feed in towed info and you’re not gonna be able to bet directly from it. Right. But something that would give you the tools to at least create the tickets that then you could punch in something like that. Anyway, if we create this sort of horseplayer information area of the site, a takeout table would go really, really well in there.

I should also say that there is a code you can get a free month to, to ease the transition essentially to this, uh, ticket maker going behind the paywall. Uh, there is a promo code you can use to get a free month of it. I gave it on the Stronick show last week. I’ll give it on the Stronach show this week.

I’m scrambling looking to find it and having no success, but anyway that you won’t be left out in the cold, but it is something folks are going to have to think about going forward. Um, is it my turn? Uh, yeah, if you’ve got, if you got one, I got one. Um, what tools do you use for PPE speed figures and [01:28:00] video replays?

That’s the first one. Jack has a series of questions. Well, depending on how much time we spend on the first ones, maybe we’ll get to the other ones. If not Jack, we’ll get to them again. I said, we’ll probably do another one of these shows, uh, before, too long. So tools for PPE speed figures and video replays.

I mean, For me to talk about DRF. I’m very much of a DRF and time form us sky and both time in us time from us, NDRF allow you to access replays right there. Anytime you’re talking about replays, it does make me want to at least think about suggesting the services over at RTN. Uh, they have a bunch of different ways of accessing that stuff that can be useful.

Anything to add from you JK in terms of the data. Yeah. I mean, you know, DRF, uh, time form us, um, print PDF, use it on my iPad. I got the Apple pencil. I use PDF expert is the app that I use on my iPad. Um, [01:29:00] workout reports from DRF national turf out in California. Um, Uh, stats, race lens is good for supplemental, you know, trying to figure out this, that or the other.

Um, I’ve actually kind of, I kind of gone almost lean more to them for like the quick kind of trainer stats, horse stats than I do formulator it. I just it’s a, I mean, they both work, but I I’ve kinda just been messing with, with, uh, stats more recently. So I’ve just kind of stick to that department. Um, Yeah.

And then replace, like you said, always built in right there. RTN account of always, you know, always tell people that it’s a smart investment. Uh, you get every, every channel or every everything in HD on your computer. If you have an HTMI plug on your computer or an HTMI or you have Apple TV, you can stream that.

That, uh, that, that HD feed to your TV, if you want, you can get it on a Roku or whatever, smart TV with Roku. I think you can solve Archie. And I don’t know how much it is a month. [01:30:00] I, but I think, I mean, I think maybe it’s yearly, but anyways, it’s worth it. Speaking of people that should be, uh, should we should be partners with there’s there, there there’s RTN um, here’s the next one?

How do you determine what the pace of a race will be? I’ll give you the quick and dirty on this. And if you were starting out, I think you, you really should. You know, if you’re talking about basic, starting out stuff, the time form us paste projector is great for that stuff. There are other pace projectors out there, but time for me, us, I mean, to me, even now in my handicapping, I would say gets me 75% of the way there.

And then there’s the idea of going through and you got to make mental adjustments based on Ryder switches, knowing which riders on your circuit are likely to grab and or send. That’s not factored into their algorithm at all, that you got to do that. And then also just sometimes I’ll just have a disagreement in terms of running style, um, what a horse has done in the past and the quick and dirty for that.

And I [01:31:00] it’s much more intuitive now, but in my early days as a player, I would actually write in what the, what are called the Kiran. And that’s Q U I R I N speed points, which is a scale from zero to eight. Zero representing a plotter eight representing needs to try to go to the lead every time and between a good pace projector and having, uh, those speed points for each runner.

You can just keep doing that. And you’re going to start envisioning how racists are going to be run, and you’re going to get better at it. The more you understand who’s riding and what their tendencies are and what their ability to be in tune with the racetrack is. And I think, I don’t know if I left you any meat on the bone speed figures.

I’m using time form U S pace figures. And then, um, like, like Pete said, then I look at post position, um, is one of those horses meant to be on the lead, drawn to the, outside, to the inside grape and then trainer writer intent, um, [01:32:00] you know, did this horse get, you know, look, a horse can have crazy fast speed figures in the last three races and has gone to the front and stopped and all of them.

And that fourth race, you might think that they’re going to rate the horse. And, you know, especially if they switched from Kendrick to Joelle. Yeah. You have to, so you have to, you start with the pace figures or your guide, and then you have to use, you know, some critical thinking to identify. What’s going to go from there.

You think about my guests, about the time from us paced projector, getting 75% of the way there does that sound right? Am I overestimating how good it is? Underestimating? Probably be more than that, honestly. Okay. Yeah, you might be right. I was, I was going to go higher and then I busted it back down in my mind.

Before I, before I said the words, how do you determine the difference between an a horse and a B horse JK? Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s the way, it’s just a feel thing, right? Um, on a horse, the horse that I think presents some value, a horse that, that I think has a good shot of winning in a horse that, um, I can design [01:33:00] the race in which they’re going to win.

B horses are types that I think there is some value there, but they’re clearly their chances of winning. And their level of value clearly aren’t to, to the level of the other three horses that I’ve been using as A’s, I’ll use those as a B type horses that I want to use. That makes sense using, I think you can use the B spot, very sparingly for horses that you’re scared of, but I wouldn’t do it for horses that you’re scared of that are short prices.

Um, that’s your opportunity to make some money. If there’s a short price horse, you don’t like, you’re just scared of. Then you, you know, you try to beat that one in that spot. You can really pick up equity. So it’s a feel thing. There’s no science to it. It’s just identifying chances to win and value. And how important that horses to your team.

Okay. Very quickly, because I think you nailed it. A horses of the horses. I really like in the spot in terms of they represent value and they’re, they, they represent value and, or are [01:34:00] likely winners that are not going to be bad value B horses or backups. Right. But not total fades. Like what you’re describing JK that over bet.

Favorite. Who’s just a horse. You know, I may find ways to even use that horse if I have opinions elsewhere. And I th that, I feel like I can include without equity draining, but I wouldn’t even call those horses be they, they would be, I’d find other ways to, to cover them. But anyway, we could very easily get into a much longer and more in depth conversation here than we have time for.

Um, anyway, Jack, hopefully that’s useful info. He describes himself as a new player and we love to have new players here and encourage questions either on Twitter or, um, you know, w next time we do this, I’d really like to get it going with the voicemail. It’s so fun to be able to hear everybody out there and hear their voices and have them be part of the show.

So Jack, feel free to, to queue up some, uh, some questions, [01:35:00] as far as that goes. What else you got JK? We got the, let’s do five more minutes here. Uh, let’s see. I thought I saw one. That was good. Um, yeah, we can do that. So, um, I suppose, uh, at least I’m not crazy about answering this question. I think it will lead to other situations, a question for both of you, hypothetically, you must add either phone or Parker will Rogers downs to your portfolio of tracks to play in March, 2021.

Which one do you choose and why? Well, first of all, is it the reason you said you didn’t want to answer is because you think it’s, it’s, pre-staging a world in which things don’t progress quite as quickly as we’d like them to, in terms of no return to normalcy in 2021. Is that what you, is that what you were saying there?

Yeah. I mean on Monday and Tuesday next year, I hope I can like, you know, go do something different. I had no use for either. I mean, I’m going to be honest. I just, I just wasn’t able to get my sea legs under me at [01:36:00] either at either track. Um, if you made me pick one, where do you think there’s more crossover with a circuit that we play right here?

We’ll watch for sure. I mean, we’ll watch, you’re going to get horses from Lonestar. You’ll get a horse to shipping over from Oaklawn. Um, you’ll get horses from like Remington, I mean, will Rogers for sure. For me, you know, foreigner is, it’s funny, I’ve been a fonder probably 60 times, but I’ve never, I’ve never seen live racing there.

Cause the times that I was in grand Island, it was never, uh, it was never during the live meet. And, um, you know, I did kind of square off on or after that kind of really annoying disqualification they had when they had that pick five carry over. But yeah, I mean, look, I just prefer. Um, I prefer the world go back to normal and, and, and I’ll be busy with other things, but, you know, will Rogers, for sure it would be the choice that makes sense.

And you’re right, because that crossover with lone star circuit, we do pay [01:37:00] close attention to, I think I would just need some serious coaching up. Maybe I’d try to bribe Paul Matisse to talk to me for an hour with his thoughts about how to play bowl rings. And maybe I, maybe that would really help me get going there.

Um, JK is die hard. A Christmas movie. Um, it’s close. I don’t think so. You could watch diehard in July. I mean, it’s not, have you seen, uh, on Netflix though? There’s this, uh, the movies that made us or something like that or something like that, but it’s a doc it’s like these documentaries about like that home alone.

Um, Uh, dirty dancing. And it goes through just like the complete in-depth behind the scenes, how the movie got made the obstacles they had, who they almost cast instead of this person, how they did this scene, what they did to get the helicopter. It’s a really cool, like behind the scene, you know, how, how we made it deal.

It’s really, that does sound cool. We can rapid fire this next [01:38:00] question from Michael it’s probably too in depth for now. Michael next time I asked for a question to ask this one again, it’s about trying to figure out how many horses to use in each leg in a horizontal bet. Like the Stronick five, Chris, Alarmy introduced a kind of an interesting way of thinking about this on the show we did together last year, but there ain’t no way we’re going to be able to get to this in the time we have.

So we’ll, we’ll come back to that. You know, I, I think I can answer that quickly too. I think that looking for that answer is the wrong way to look at the seat. Okay. Okay. Play the sequence. The sequence tells you how many horses do you use in each leg there, you know, locking yourself into a box with these rules when there’s so many other variables that can use, you can use to decide.

There’s just no answer you. What’s your, what’s your budget. What’s your goal and what’s the sequence, that’s it. And I’ll, I’ll let that, I’ll let that work as the answer there a question about if our paywall was successful for Breeder’s cup, [01:39:00] I would say absolutely. We seem to have a lot of satisfied customers enough so that I’m looking at doing, um, some other stuff for, you know, again, everything that’s free is always going to be free, but there might be some more premium type content maybe starting earlier in the year in 2021.

But again, nothing, nothing. That’s going to take away. Of what people have become accustomed to getting for free. And then a question about getting more whiskey. I, I just started plants on it. So we’re out of the first batch of whiskey. There. There’s no more of that, but we debuted it. It wound up being an accident that we debuted it for Derby day, but that’s when it ended up happening.

So I was thinking maybe why not do it again for this year’s Derby? I’m going to be going upstate actually tomorrow. Um, meet with Rick Sakari the distiller. I have a couple of fun plans maybe to do a finished whiskey this time around. I’ve always thought that rye being the classic New York spirit and apples being such a New York thing that to do arrive finished in like an Apple Jack barrel, [01:40:00] like spent four months in there.

We could debut it for the Derby and then we’ll have, you know, the rest of the year to raise some money. For the, for the TRF. So we appreciate, appreciate that question. Here’s one for you, JK. What’s the best steakhouse in the U S. Ooh. I mean, look, I think Peter Luger’s is something special. Um, the food’s great.

I kind of liked the atmosphere. It feels like New York, you know, you’re in New York, you feel a little bit, you know, kind of rushed. They’re not like overly, they’re not like overly nice, you know, it’s just like, Hey man, come on. Let’s, you know, let’s do this. And the food’s phenomenal. So in the times I’ve gone, it’s always been good company and like, You know, we usually go on Belmont Eve and it’s just, I, I’m a big fan of that spot of our tradition of going to the great neck location Belmont week.

And I, and I wouldn’t trade it. But, uh, my favorite steakhouse is, um, my man, Joe Carol’s place in [01:41:00] Williamsburg, not too far from the original Peter Luger location St. Anselm, I’ll give them, I’ll give them a shout out. And anytime we’re talking steak houses, this is a horse racing show. Don’t we have to give a little bit of love to a Arroyo chop house, where we have had many, many fantastic sometimes victory celebration, sometimes just, uh, opportunities to, to hang out, drink good wine and cocktails with delicious, uh, delicious steaks with friends that one’s out in Pasadena within an easy, uh, get from San Antonio.

Perrin has joined us parent come say hi to everybody. Hello, you have a quick question for me.

Uh, there’s a yoga mat. There’s a yoga mat in that box right there. If you want to grab it and head on up. All right. There’s parents cameo for the, for the, for the week. She’ll be back. Actually. We’re going to, I’m going to run. We’re doing a holiday music special. That’s going to run on my dad’s old [01:42:00] radio show, mixed bag currently hosted by his handpicked successor, Don McGhee.

And we do a Christmas takeover every year. I’m going to go ahead and customize that a little bit and we’ll run it on here. I’ll probably drop that on, uh, on Christmas Eve. Uh, speaking of shows that are going to drop around Christmas Eve, that’ll be our two year anniversary of going independent from our friends at DRF JK.

What, what do you think we got it. We got to do some handicapping for opening day at Santa Anita only. Oh, no doubt. Absolutely. I’m looking forward to that. I’ll be locked and loaded. Ready to go. So that’s, uh, one of my favorite days it’s too bad. We won’t be able to get out there. Yeah. You’ve been to a whole bar.

How many have you been to over the years? Say Anthony? Seven, eight, six, seven, eight. Um, Austin’s been there probably four he’s. He can really, he could build up quite a record given his what’s he, what’s he asking Santa for this year? Uh, you mean he’s still, he’s still into these into games. You’ve been playing [01:43:00] this game called brawl stars on his iPad.

Uh, got him a bunch of, of, of jerseys. I feel like jerseys are for kids and, and, uh, and I actually tease when I see adults wearing them, I’m like, Oh, he’s wearing an adult Jersey. Um, I think jerseys are for kids. And so. I want him to have as many as he can while he can for 40 kids too old to wear jerseys.

You’re talking about, I, I still bust out my Lawrence Taylor Jersey from time to time. Are you telling me, are you telling me that’s wrong? Where are we on the show on time? Or you were down here and you were like looking in the closet and we’re like 56 on the giants. Who’s that? And I just looked at you. I looked at you like you were the worst person on earth.

Didn’t I never watched it. I made that mistake. I know, I know LT when I see LT, but, uh, so I got what we get Austin. Uh, Uh, a Michael Thomas Jersey for the Sates. He got a cam Jordan. He’s not listening to this. I’m not ruining it for him. I ordered him an old Randy Moss from Vikings Jersey. Nice. He’s ready to rock.

Excellent. [01:44:00] Excellent. A couple more. We’ll we’ll we’ll stretch our time here. Uh, eggnog or no eggnog for the holidays. JK. Oh, I don’t get down like that. You know, it’s not bad. And what surprises me is if you get it, especially like, you know, homemade non-processed, it’s essentially ice cream in a non frozen form.

So if you like, I could make you an eggnog. That’s basically a boozy milkshake. I think you might change your tune. Well, I mean, you say boozy milkshake. You’ve got my attention, but I’m, I’m not a fan I’m telling you, you just haven’t had, you haven’t had the right stuff. Oh my goodness. I hope we get back to getting some, uh, some nice boozy milkshakes for, for 2021.

That could be a future note to self future. T-shirt design a boozy milkshake t-shirt could be, could be interesting. Um, what about, so we had this idea of doing production meeting in the middle of the show, our next t-shirt, which you know, will not be available in time for, but you know, you can always pre-order.

Um, we might be able to [01:45:00] get the pre-order up in time, but we have, I know we were going back and forth with Kurt over at old smoke. What was, we had an idea to do a poll about the final design. Fill me in here. I don’t know what we’re at on that. I actually have an email from Cardone to look at. So maybe I’ll figure out the answer to that question.

Um, yeah, the two designs we like, but should we do it like a little Twitter poll and let the people choose? Yeah, I mean, I’m fine with that. Okay. W w w we’ll see, and, and the expression on it. I, I, you know, we can let that cat out of the bag, a few expressions as associated with, uh, with a day at the racetrack around us.

Then one time. One time for the good guys you have just as we, we added the good guys. So we just, we kept it simple at one time. Um, If, if you’ve gambled you’ve you said it just come on one time, just one time with this. Like, I love it because it, it really speaks to how beaten up you get in any, in any form of gambling.

It’s like every other time he’s, you know, we losing these photos, we got. We’re getting dqued, we’re getting a bad ride. The [01:46:00] horse got this bad trip. One time, let everything go. Right. So I can get paid. There’s so much there. There’s a lot of, of, of story and, uh, and, and drama and pain baked in to those two words one time.

So anyway, it’s a cool design. Hopefully people will, will dig it. Here’s another breeders’ cup betting challenge. Question, JK, you and Marshall, both bet your entire bankrolls to win on Monomoy girl. Uh, of course you both doubled your bankroll. However she paid $3 to place. Did you ever consider betting her to place?

No. No. I just, you know, I, I mean, this isn’t a sound like kinda like a smart ass remark, but look the Y, but so for like, for what, for bankrolled preservation, or just to be, I mean, she paid $4 to win. So obviously, you know, uh, I make twice as much money. I mean, it’s, to me, it’s, to me, that’s a winner go home.

And the, the comment or Jeff does point out that you [01:47:00] did have a little saver on CC, but I mean, CC is a horse we’ve loved, we’ve talked about a billion times, was my top pick and was a giant price. So like, So to answer the question, my thought probably. And I, and if you, if you haven’t seen the, the show that Marshall I did together, the, uh, J K plus one, we kind of go over.

My whole point was it’s been that way in a couple of breeders, cut, betting challenges. I want to take opinions and bet them in a way where I just got to get three things right. The entire weekend. And if I can get those three things right. Then I’ll be in a position to win. And so that’s what it was for me.

I wanted to, I wanted to be right with that double with the turf sprint and, um, and I want it to be able to get to a position where I could go all in on Monomoy girl. And then I could go all in, in a fairly safe way at the end to try to win it. And that’s what I did. I was able, like you said earlier to do a four by four double.

So I had [01:48:00] 16 different combinations of the last race that would have, you know, the kind of protected me and about six of those scenarios could have potentially won it for me. So, um, you know, that, that was never, it was never in my mind to bed her, to place. Like, I mean, not even there’s kind of, there are times when it makes perfect sense to be at the place.

Like. This year’s Kentucky Derby on TIS the law when you’re going to get paid the same, but you’re getting your return on investment is so much higher between $4 and $3, especially at the, especially at the. The, the amount that you were betting there that, yeah, it’s a no-brainer. And to me, the CC hedge, uh, the CC hedge makes absolute sense.

I mean, I assume you don’t have anything more to say about that than what I already know. I think that I’m guessing I don’t have it in front of me, but I’m also guessing that the betting $40,000 to place. Well, we’ll probably change that $3 two. Yeah, I might’ve got it. Might’ve gone down to two eight to, to see Marshall, the math that we, we, that [01:49:00] our two bets did affect that affect the pricing and costs us maybe 10 cents or something like that.

But there were, there were some other good research I saw folks doing about just all the little things. There was somebody else in the contest, JK who also had the tornado authentic, double. That ended up in the top 10, that if he hadn’t made that bet, it would have paid enough that you would have had more than Marshall it’s it’s tough stuff at the end there, you gotta be willing to just stick with your opinion and make your play and, and, and hope for the best.

All right, we’re close enough to an hour. Now. I’ll be a little bit late to lunch. Harvey. Won’t be too mad at me. Um, we’ll go. We’ll we’ll go the hour. Cause we can get, um, We can get to the end of this thing, I think. Or, or, or at least a bunch of them. What do you think about that lack of a national standard for what isn’t a foul or riding infraction, should this stuff be standardized?

Is middle East peace, more likely asks Paul? Um, yeah, obviously we’re all. Unhappy with the way to me, I’m not only unhappy with the inconsistency from [01:50:00] jurisdiction to jurisdiction, I’m unhappy with the entire way they adjudicate the things here. I mean, we’ve been over this a thousand times, but the category one versus category two, I prefer the category.

One adjudication where the steward’s inclination is to let results stand and deal with riding and fractions by hitting riders, really where they hurt. In terms of the pocket book, giving days, giving fines, things like that. But even if you were going to have category two, yeah, it would be nice to see a consistency from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but that’s just not how racing works in this country and on the list of things affecting racing.

If I could just magically change three, I’m not even sure that, that one, what would make it, what do you think JK about, uh, these issues? Yeah. I mean, we’re not on the same page across jurisdictions and that’s likely not going to happen anytime soon. I mean, I guess maybe, um, it could, if this legislation passes, I guess I could get everybody closer to the same page and we’ll see what happens there.

But you know, the [01:51:00] stewarding thing to me is really not that big of a priority to me. And let me tell you why. Oh, for a couple of reasons, one, yeah, it can be frustrating, but I usually, I have found that all of the bad breaks that I’ve gotten at the stewards hands I’ve gotten good ones too. Um, and right.

They just, to me, and that’s not even just that one, I just think that if even, you know, they, they cancel each other out typically, you know, we don’t remember the ones we got lucky. We don’t remember when we stayed up and we should have come down. We just remember when we came down. So that’s the first part of it.

The second part of it is I do agree. I do think that. That in situations, the better shouldn’t be punished, they should handle it kind of off the race track and, and kind of force riders into safer situations, um, because of where they’re affected and how they’re affected. So I do believe that’s a better way to go about it, but like I said, I do find this to be 17th on the list of important things.

Mary asks a good one. I [01:52:00] get you, uh, Buster hurdle on a different show, us talking to, are you talking about the concept of resulting and asks? How do each of us process a loss? And I will say in my gambling life, I don’t think I’ve had too many, had a lot of great teachers who were human beings, but overall.

Losses can be great teachers. And there’s a very important difference between resulting and looking back at your losses and trying to learn something. And I’ve seen a lot of patterns of behavior over the years in various forms of gambling that, you know, when you start to see something once and you, you have an inkling to correct it, you know, maybe that’s resulting, but when you see yourself making the same mistake consistently, That’s how you can start learning from your losses.

And I just think to go back and look back objectively at the end of the day and take out of the equation. Um, any of the emotions associated with winning or losing at gambling. And just [01:53:00] objectively look and try to find spots where you got lucky or the horses that you included that you really didn’t need to include, or even if you won, you know, even if you won, you can go back and look and learn something about your play and you know, it’s a fine line.

It’s easy to get into that mindset. Well, it worked so it’s good. It didn’t work. So it’s bad. Obviously you need to focus on the decision, not the outcome. That’s an idea than a, one of the oldest ideas in the successful. Gambler psychology that there is. What about you JK? Do you have anything else to add to that conversation about resulting?

Yeah, I think that the first thing that I’ll say about resulting is is that if you’re, if you’re overextending yourself from a bankroll standpoint, that’s the first thing that will make you result because you’re, you’re, you know, you’re losing more than you feel comfortable losing. So then the losses are more uncomfortable and then you are less, uh, You’re less analytical when you’re trying to figure out where the, the, where it came from, because you’re, you’re, you’re like they say [01:54:00] in poker, you’re on tilt.

So that’s the first thing I’ll say is, is, is, is that is, is staying within your budget and where you feel comfortable. That’s the first thing that can help kind of handle those emotions of a resulting. To me, there’s two different types of losses. There’s I made a mistake and didn’t see something loss and there’s a, I could have never found that horse loss.

And when I come across the, I could have never found that horse loss. I can shake those off pretty easily. It’s pretty easy for me to just be done with them. The, the, I made a mistake loss. It’s usually about time management. It’s usually about rushing. It’s usually about, I could’ve saw that I was going too fast and then I get pretty frustrated at myself cause I was being sloppy or being, you know, uh, a little too action, heavy.

And so then really it’s the same lesson every time, which is slow your butt down and, and take the time to actually construct this thing the right way. But I never, man losses don’t really hit me longer than, than like. You know, then a day or like a couple of hours, [01:55:00] sometimes I can be over it. Um, uh, you know, a glass of wine usually helps to, to shake the haters off too.

But one thing I’ll say is haters shake. Hey, I can’t believe it. One thing I’ll say is that like, you know, I don’t even remember it. I Del Mar I like had this masterful situation where I put myself in this unbelievable position and I got beat by a horse that I probably could have had. But probably couldn’t have had, and that one stung a little bit, because I’m a believer in this game that you’ve got about three or four pops in you for the year and you can’t let you can’t let them get away.

And I felt like I let that one get away and it was hackable, the horse was hackable. And so those kinds of thing a little bit longer, but you just, how was the horse, however, habitable talk to yourself about it. And then hopefully you’ll catch it next time around. Bonus coverage. Cause this is just me asking you, do you find losses to be a good teacher?

And in what way, if you do [01:56:00] absolutely. Um, you know, with my son, since he was a kid, I’ve always said two things to him. Um, one of them was, was, was Jennifer saying that I picked up on, which is, you know, I always used to say, Hey, Hey buddy, daddy will always keep you. And then he answers safe. And then I always said, and I said, buddy, it’s okay to make.

And he says mistakes. Those are the two that I always say. Cause I just feel like that’s where you learn lessons. Like when you, when you mess something up is how you figure out what you don’t want to do. You, you, but, but if you don’t let yourself make mistakes, then you’re never going to figure them out.

So, um, I always joke that that, that first pop I had back in 2010 for like 80,000 and the pitfall was champagne Doro, that money I gave all that money back learning, you know, To a certain extent. I mean, don’t get me wrong to give it all back, but that was the, that was my learning money. That’s where I learned that you have to stop using caveman tickets and pick fours.

You can’t hit the all button. You can’t go all, all single all which I see people do all the time and then they hit it. They think they’re clever. It’s just [01:57:00] bad business. And you learn those lessons as you, as you go. And so yes, losses are absolutely. If they, if, uh, if you can’t get a lesson out of a loss, Then what, what’s the point of losing, right?

Oh, um, I’m a big believer in that, you know, even in my coaching days, we always used to say, don’t let one loss turn into two and you gotta, you know, you gotta let go of the cookie and just move on after you have them. But it’s definitely worth reflecting for a moment and then getting past it. Those are that’s such good stuff.

And I love that point about making mistakes. I mean, I would go so far as to say, uh, if I were talking to somebody really, it doesn’t even matter what the profession is. So put that aside if you’re, and maybe this isn’t true in some, in some professions like the medical profession or something, but, you know, book publishing and in gambling and in podcasting.

I would say, if you’re not making mistakes, you’re not doing your job. You’re not taking enough chances. You’re not putting yourself out there. You know, it’s very [01:58:00] easy to, to plug along and just, you know, do stuff, but taking chances, making mistakes and learning from them. Critical to so much of the work out there in the world.

We are officially out of time. JK. I want to thank you one more time. I’m going to let your show breathe for a bit. So, uh, J K plus one will come out. This will come out, but then you’re listing this at the earliest. It’s going to be Tuesday night, uh, just to get that programming note out there in the world, coordinate with your JK production meeting at the end of the show this time, uh, want to thank all the listeners who submitted questions.

I know we didn’t get to all of them. We will at some point, uh, apologies. To those of you who we didn’t get to. And thank you again to those who, uh, to everybody who submitted a question, um, what else do we need to do? Let’s thank some, uh, partners, including 10 strike racing and the thoroughbred retirement foundation, but most of all want to thank all of you, the listeners for making these shows so much fun to do.

Especially these last two years when we’ve been solo, but really going all the way back to 2014. [01:59:00] When we debuted in a, in a very different world to say the least that’s going to do it. This show has been a production of in the money media. Our business manager is drew Coney, our chief creative officers, Jonathan kitchen.

I’m Peter Thomas foreign Italian. May you win all your photos. .

 A special message before we get today’s show off and rolling. Welcome to the world. Emmett Carol coat ni born at two 34 on the last day of November in 2020. Weighing seven pounds, 12 ounces, mom, Nancy and baby are happy. [02:00:00] Drew hanging in there as well. It sounds like though, he’s less important than those other two, but welcome to the world.

My favorite thing about this gig is getting to do messages like this. Emmett Carol Kourtney. Can’t wait to meet you.

Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is our show for Tuesday, December 1st, giving Tuesday the pub date. Also have a book we’re going to be talking about in a little bit, definitely a departure today. Something very different. Listen, let me apologize in advance. Most of this show was recorded on a microphone I’m not used to using, and it doesn’t sound very good.

Won’t be using it again. So my audio for the rest of [02:01:00] this show, not up to snuff. Uh, it’s I corrected it for the intro and outro. Doesn’t do you guys all that much? Good, but anyway, hopefully it won’t make you crazy. Um, the show today we’ve got Andrew Kotter, uh, fantastic sports broadcaster gained viral video fame during the pandemic, we have a fun chat.

There’s some horse racing chatter mixed in. But it’s mainly about his experience during the pandemic and this amazing work he’s done. I think it’s going to be of great interest to the vast majority of in the money fans. And I’m really looking forward to your hearing that. And then this is Tuesday, December 1st, as I mentioned, that’s also giving Tuesday, you know, who we’re going to have on for giving Tuesday that’s Kim Weir of the thoroughbred retirement foundation to talk about everything going on there.

So the next thing you’re going to hear is an audio clip of one of the viral videos Andrew Kotter put together, [02:02:00] and then we’ll get right to that interview. Post haste. Well, her fitting that it should come down to these two olive in her familiar black five times the champion Mabel the rising star winner.

Last year, you can see how excited they are, but also feel the tension. And here it’s in the code. As we near the start of this, I know they go I’ll live away first, but a problem with Mabel’s bowl, not plate cost. I know having to play catch up. Both settling quickly into rhythm. You can see the contrast in styles, Mabel heavy tail yous, happy to be alive.

Everything’s amazing. Olive, more steady, wasting little energy, very much of the old Labrador school. Eating’s a serious business. Don’t bombex around wagging your tail. A little bit of a departure on the show today, but this is an interview I have been wanting to do for the last couple of months.

Everybody has voices that help them through this incredibly difficult 2020. And the next voice you’re about to hear is one of those for me, [02:03:00] he became. A social media sensation on the back of a very successful broadcasting career. And now he’s got a book it’s called olive Mabel in me, life and adventures with two very good dogs.

Welcome to the end, the money airwaves, Andrew Carter. Andrew, how are you today? Yeah, I’m fine. I feel I should deliver with my voice on that, on the very first sentence after his amazing introduction, but, uh, I’ve. I’ve actually had a bit of a cold and, you know, we used to think of our call as the end of the world.

And know, obviously it’s not a be stressed to people when you sound a bit throaty, whether it’s just a called I promise it’s just a cold, I’ve got to go through a test at the moment every week, because I’m doing some rugby commentary. Imagine that I’m doing some actual sports commentary, but every week a weekend, I’m doing, uh, some rugby commentary, the moment on internationals, um, uh, and, uh, And the, the, the company it’s prime video, it’s Amazon, and they insist that you have a COVID-19 test on the Tuesday.

So I’m passing them all with flying colors. So, um, but, uh, so I, [02:04:00] I stress again. It’s just a cold. Good to know, we’re not worried about you, but at least not on that level, which is good. I want to start because this is a in theory of horse racing show. And, uh, we, we definitely, we got on our tangents now and again, but as somebody who works in the world of sports broadcasting, have you ever done anything?

In the realm of horse racing. And, uh, how important is it to your wife? Obviously it holds a bit more of a place in the culture, in your part of the world than it does over here in the United States. So, so I’m assuming you’ll have some, Oh yeah. I mean, I, I, I, listen, I know of racing and the importance of it to the British sporting public and particular things like the Chelton festival, which always is taking place in the middle of the six nations rugby term, which I covered.

And suddenly attention gets taken away from the six nations and, you know, it’s all about 150. A was people flocking to the Southwest of England, but you know, every big racing meeting you take notice of whether it’s the diabetes, whether [02:05:00] it’s entry, you know, for the grand national, whatever it might be, you know, Royal Alaska it’s, uh it’s um, these are events like the, the, the big sporting events in the UK.

They are. Sort of mileposts in the, in, in the year, um, for people in terms of, you know, they recognize them as more than sporting events. There’s there, there are social events, there are events that are sort of part of the fabric of society. So all the big events, all the big meetings and racing I’m very much aware of, but I must confess I’m not a massive racing fan, uh, which this is probably where you hang up on me here.

Um, but listen, I know plenty of people in racing I’m actually. That’s what I I’m actually, um, uh, I, this sounds like terrible. Name-dropping it’s not supposed to be at all, but, um, I, every year at the masters, um, I go with a guy Rishi Perseid who, you know, very well who works in there, works in racing, broadcasting, fantastic bloke over here we go.

And, um, and meet up with JP [02:06:00] McManus, uh, cause he the big, big golf fan with demo Desmond, they go over there to the masters and we, we meet up and, uh, Quite a few other people, AP McCoy’s they are. So that’s when I get most of my racing knowledge, chatting to those people and trying not to be appear too ignorant.

Uh, I try and ask gentle questions. Yeah. So, uh, the front of the horses, the nose, yes. And the backend. So it’s, um, it’s, it’s, it’s tricky, but, um, uh, yeah, again, racing is not. Necessarily one of the sports when I watched the commentators and racing as well, I think, and they might watch the sports I do and think, Oh, that’d be a hard sport to commentate on, you know, commentating on rugby or athletics or whatever.

It might be sort of track and field. Um, but when I watched the great racing commentators and for years and television or in the UK, it was Peter Sullivan, but there’s a, a radio commentator over here, John Hunt, who does it for a BBC radio. And he is. Brilliant. He’s brilliant. And, um, uh, I mean, my [02:07:00] comparison would be when I do athletics track and field, as they call it in North America and that, you know, you’ve got to reach that peak, that crescendo just as the athletes or the horses go across the line and you’ve got to get.

It’s identification, you’ve got to get the winner rights. Um, and yet you’ve got to get the sequence one, two, three, four, five, whatever it might be. But, uh, and it’s remembering all the names and all the silks and all the jockeys and all the, you know, when you’re doing it in athletics, you’re looking at all the colors of the vests and the different strayed patterns and the faces obviously, but it’s, I really, really admire what they’re doing racing because it seems to happen at just a hundred miles an hour.

It’s so fast and there’s so many of them, especially in your part of the world are so, so good. I had the pleasure of working with, with John Hunt, actually early days of the pandemic, when they, they had the marketing monks like him. In the mix to bring American racing when American racing was some of the only sport going on in [02:08:00] the world, we did an afternoon at Gulf stream.

I think I went over nine. I’m guessing John doesn’t think I’m much of a good judge, but he was such a professional that he raised the level of the broadcast. Anyway. Have you ever had any temptation to, to attempt to commentate on a race? Well, I would quite like to do it from the, the sort of challenge or the dynamic of doing it for all those reasons.

I’ve just talked about in terms of the identification, in terms of the slow build as they go far along from long, and then you’re getting closer and closer to the winning post and it is, and again, I do it and you know, I do it in athletics and the, you know, in the Olympics, the world championships or whatever, when you’re, when they’re going around the track and it’s a build and it’s a build and you’re adding little bits of information, it’s a slow and it’s just, you.

If you looked at the sewn graph, a, you know, on a, on a, on a, on a computer and looked at the sewn graph for the, the, the commentary and you just see it slowly, swelling growing all the way closer to the line. And then it’s just that explosion. And it says, like I saw this climactic thing and then it [02:09:00] sort of abs away, uh, once you’ve come across the winning lane and.

It’s it’s, it’s the timing of it. It’s the cadence. It’s the rhythm. It’s the sound? It’s the phrases. So it is a, you know, a beautiful thing to listen to, whether you’re a massive racing fan or not. You can listen to someone like John Hunt and go that that is beautiful sports commentary. And that’s why sports commentary done at its very best and so much to a broadcast.

I’m not talking about radio, which that’s where we, where we hear John Hunt. And, you know, most of all over here, but even on, on, on television, you know, you, you can watch, of course you can watch a sporting event without commentary and a bad commentary will, will really ruin the, the experience. But a good commentary will add just that extra bit, the icing on the cake.

It has just the thing that compliments the pictures that you are seeing and adds to your enjoyment of it. And that’s what the, a great commentators do. As you were talking. I think most of the listeners were probably picturing [02:10:00] Tom Dirk and the legendary race caller who called many breeders cups. So over the years, it’s what you were describing is exactly that it’s filling in the blanks and that.

That color, that just makes the whole picture. When, when, when did he stop doing it then? Sure can probably stop doing the breeders cup about 10 years ago and probably retired about, gosh, he was doing San Mateo guy. I think up until I think five or six years ago. You remember seeing the breeders cup when, um, rock of Gibraltar, which was the, you know, obviously you, you know, owned Parkland by Alex Ferguson and yeah.

I just remember a co-mentors now here comes the rock and it was just, uh, just sounded great. It was just fantastic. Yeah, that definitely sounds like I’ve got to ask you some Scottish questions because you know, it’s just a personal fascination. And one of my, one of my favorite places in the world is Scotland plays a major role in the book.

I swear. We’ll talk about the [02:11:00] book at some point, but. My family, we had one of our most fun days out and fun days at the races at Perth race course. I remember they had a special program for kids, an old Scottish man randomly offered my young daughter a pound to bet with, and it just, it was something about the sporting culture.

In Scotland, that’s just my observation, but it just seemed even more friendly and inclusive and part of just normal everyday life than anywhere I’ve been in the world. Is that accurate? Possibly. I think it’s because it’s so dark and miserable in Scotland. And I say that as a Scot, I’m allowed to say that and that we need to take our entertainment where we can get it because I got, especially at the moment, I mean, it’s dark at four o’clock in the afternoon.

It doesn’t get light until halfway. Nine or whatever, and it’s just, it’s raining a wet and windy and you just think, Oh, can we have some, that’s why you’ve got the sports that you cling to in the, in the [02:12:00] winter months, it’s, you know, it’s football, you know, soccer and rugby and racing. And then in the summer, it’s, uh, it’s um, uh, tennis and it’s golf and it’s athletics and it’s these sports.

So, uh, yeah, we’re, we’re big sports funds. Um, uh, I think we’re probably better watching sport than we are at playing it’s. And the reason for that is just because we don’t. Yeah, I used to, I mean, I still go to Australia. I see us go to Australia, obviously not no, and probably not next year, but it got to Australia quite often.

And there everybody is doing sport from five in the morning because it’s, it’s bright and it’s light and it’s sunny and it’s warm. And that creates people who play sports. Now we want to play sports in Scotland. And I, I mean, I really, I, I still prefer playing sport to talking about it or watching it, but my God is difficult in Scotland.

Honestly, golf was my thing growing up and I used to try and practice. I wanted to be a golf pro and then throw the winter months, you would honestly have 50 mile an hour winds every single day in the driving rain. And it was dark and you just could not. [02:13:00] Practice. So I thought, you know, I envied the, the children and in the United States, you know, in, in Florida, Arizona, or California with the endless sunshine and just the ability to say, right, I’m going to practice from this time to this time today, because I know I can, because the weather’s going to be good.

What does, in Scotland, you had, uh, a weather window opening of a boat, five minutes in January and you thought, right. I’ve got to do all my practice in this five minutes by God. I’m going to make it pay, but it’s so yeah, so we, we, um, yeah. Original question. We take what joy we can when we can. So we really get into the sports.

It makes perfect sense to me. I do remember. I, gosh, I mean the winter must be something cause uh, I recall meeting the full-on sweater and I’m not sure if we hit, uh, 60 Fahrenheit in, uh, in, uh, June. That’s the thing in Scotland, you know, you think of Scotland and it’s so far North. Compared to the United States of America.

Thank, well, it must be freezing, but of course it sits at the end of the Gulf stream. So all we do is get buttered [02:14:00] by wind what, a rock on the edge of the Atlantic. And we get battered by wind and rain and all the seasons kind of melt into one another. So you can get I’ve stood on the top of Scottish mountains in June with the, you know, the, the, the snow and the sleet coming in.

And, you know, it will be the same in the winter. So sometimes yeah, you know, you just, I long for the. Continental claimants, where you get really cold, sharp, clear winters, and then hot summers and all the seasons are so distinct. Even autumn, fall and spring they’re distinct. Whereas in Scotland, it’s just, we have four seasons.

It’s gray, gray, gray, and also gray. So it’s, uh, I dunno, I’m not painting a good picture. So when the weather is good in Scotland and it quite often is there is no more beautiful country in the world, but we are a bit cursed by the way that as we sit there. And as I said on the edge of the Atlantic, One more Scottish question, and then we’re gonna move on to, uh, we’re going to move on to the canines.

So I have a picture of [02:15:00] my, uh, my grandfather. We don’t have Scottish heritage. We have Irish heritage, but we did have Irish relatives who moved to Scotland too. Hang on a minute. Okay. I’ll come to muscle burrow in a minute because that’s a fascinating place, but surely your surname name is that not far Natale is that you’re not Italian.

We’ll see what we come from, what used to be known as a, a mixed marriage in New York, Irish and Italian. Yes, the New York cop. It’s the other side and the Italian side, but the Irish side ended up identifying as Scottish and I, so I had this picture of my grandfather in the kilt and the full  when I made my first trip to Scotland.

In 1994, I made sure to get a matching photo. And the question that comes out of this is dispatch. People get tired of Americans asking about kilt, salt a little bit. Yes, we go. Well, we were, it was so the kilt is funny. It became, so the kilts and tartan in [02:16:00] particular. Only became, um, uh, sort of romanticized during the reign of queen Victoria because, uh, she and her, her German husband, Albert, they were, they were big, um, uh, Caledonia files.

They had Balmoral and he in particular was a big fan of the tartan saw, um, the, the kilts. You know, in centuries past was the, the garb of, of, of clan chiefs and, and clan warriors. It was, it was sort of plowed that was just wrapped around. But the kilt, as we know it today, the sort of ceremonial kilt that really became popular during the Victorian era.

Uh, so many things in Britain, dude, I have the roots back in the Victorian era. You know, when, when we talk about Christmas, know when we see Christmas and therefore the Christmas that’s been transplanted over to the United States, that’s. That all comes from Germany. And that came through Albert and his German heritage.

Well, not as German heritage, he was German. Um, and so that, what we know as Christmas today is a German Christmas, [02:17:00] but it all came from, from queen Victoria and the Victorian era. Again, I’m stretching slightly from the path you wanted me to do anyway. So, so. You know, we, as youngsters were killed, but we were given kilts to wear for special occasions.

We’d go to Sunday school wearing kilts. You wouldn’t wear a kilt every day. A kilt was a thing for just special occasions. You’d wear it at our wedding. You’d wear it. You know what, uh, uh, I might, even when I came down to London, first of all, I would wear, I was determined to show off my Scottishness and I would wear a kilt, you know, to award ceremonies or whatever.

As I applauded someone else, who’d won an award up onto the stage and tried to look trying to look a dignified and not at all upset anyway, but the kilt, snow kilts are not, there might be one or two diehard, uh, Scottish people who will insist on wearing a kilt more often than that. But really it’s, it’s all for it’s all for the tourists.

Oh, that’s so funny. I do appreciate them when I [02:18:00] see them at Royal. Ask it that idea that you can wear your national dress. It’s good stuff. All right. It’s time to pivot and talk about, uh, your, your new family talked a bunch about 2020, and the weirdness of it already on the show. But undoubtedly, there are some things that.

I’m going to say, just never would have happened. That are good things that have happened in the world this year, as a result of these bizarre conditions we’ve been living under. And for me, one of those things, it’s you using your broadcasting skills, right? Two comments on, uh, the quotidian activities of your pair of Labradors.

Labradors. Get a lot of time on the show, Muggsy the handicapping Labrador. As we, as we know her, she’s not in the room right now, but she’s typically you can hear her rattling her chain in the background or working when we tip a horse that she likes. So the audience love Labradors. Well-known two [02:19:00] seconds to go.

Now, olive closing in on victory in that coveted prize. We’re being told she’s a very good dog, one part to control and a switch. Now, Mabel sensing. This might be a chance still waiting, still believing. And you wonder all of his doing, he had only has to hold on, going to the upright little high tarriff with no opposable, thumbs high risk at this stage.

And it’s gone and Mabel takes it. No mercy from the younger dog who takes this victory just as time runs out a famous when built on patients and share belief. But all I’ve only thoughts of what might have been, but only herself to blame. She’s given this one away and that will hurt most of all. Dog. I just want to get a little bit of background how you came to be, to be using your skills as an announcer to talk about, uh Adip and Mabel at the, at the food bowl in the park.

Exactly. I mean, it came about to the start of March. So I had done, um, I’d done Scotland against France in the six nations to six [02:20:00] nations as the big, big rugby rugby tournament of spring, where you’ve got, you’ve got Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland, uh, France and Italy. And, uh, so I was getting ready for the final, one of the final games on the final day.

Um, Uh, on which was going to be on Saturday, the 14th of March. So on Friday the 13th, there we go. There was an omen. Um, I was getting ready to go down to Cardiff where the match was going to be played in front of 70,000 fans. This was actually just after the Cheltonham festival where he’d had, you know, what to say, 150,000 fans already.

There was a lot of, uh, there were lots of people saying this shouldn’t be happening. We’ve got the spread of this virus and Cheltonham should not be happening. Look at all these people in close proximity. So I think we kind of knew that. Wales against Scotland and other marches were living on the edge.

In fact, the other games in that final weekend had been canceled Wales against Scott was the only one remaining. And then I was just getting in the car to drive down to Wales, all my prep done, ready to commentate the next day. And the text came through from the editor saying that look don’t bother. It’s been called off.

And then two minutes [02:21:00] later, and it really was two minutes later, an email came in from Augusta saying we’ve decided to postpone the masters and then the London marathon went and then, uh, within. The next week or so, um, the Olympics had been, um, postponed, hopefully not canceled, postponed a Wimbledon, the open championship.

And these are all events that I work out in summer. So suddenly, you know, it was, there was no work and I’m a freelance broadcast that is, most people are working in broadcasting and sports broadcasting were freelancers. Um, so I was looking at no work and it was, um, it was rather, um, terrifying, but I had on that Friday.

Um, no. And the next day, uh, I’d gone out and thought, I’m just going to, you know, what I’m going to do. I’m going to commentate on the dogs. I’m going to show how ridiculous this whole situation is that I’m a sports broadcaster and all sports gone. So here I’m left with nothing but commentating on my dogs, eating the breakfast and the rest, as they say is history.

[02:22:00] Oh, that’s great stuff. And for those who haven’t see the videos, this is a rabbit hole. You’re going to enjoy going out. What’s the best way for folks to get caught up if they, it really isn’t a rabbit hole. No, but there’s a, so all the videos that I’ve made or certainly all the ones that I consider. Good enough.

Um, yeah. Are on my YouTube channel and they’re on a playlist and olive and Mabel playlist. So it’s a it’s Mr. Andrew Carter is my YouTube name and, uh, and they’re all there. And they’re sort of in, in that order, they go from the eating the breakfast one and what happened and it’s all sort of laid out in the book.

Um, and, and slightly greater detail on the UK version of the book, the American version comes out. Um, today, if it’s going out on Tuesday, it comes out today, the North American version, and they wanted all that condensed into the introduction, which I was quite happy to do. They wanted it to be more about the dogs, but the whole story of the viral videos was, was, was kind of fascinating because yeah.

Uh, as soon as I’d released that first one on it took off and it’s had, I dunno, about 11, 12 million [02:23:00] views of you can take all the things together. Um, it just, it was astonishing the way it spread, but then, you know, within just a couple of days, people were saying, ah, I love this. When’s the next video coming out.

And, and, and my thinking was, I don’t know, I hadn’t bought the second one. So, um, and then the second one was the, the game of Borden’s one, um, which was just Mabel waiting for all of, to make a mistake with a bone that she was holding and she would get it. And so I did that in the style of a more sort of slow pace commentary, the builders we talk about and that one just went absolutely mad and own the world.

So that said over 20 million views and. The fascinating thing for me was that recently, um, A guy who, I mean, and your listeners may well be very aware of him. I didn’t know of him, but a white house, deputy chief of staff, one of them had done Scavino Jr. And he had, he had, all I can say is pinched the video, cropped off any reference to me or any credit to me.

And [02:24:00] he had used it as an allegory for Trump against Biden. So this is seven, seven months after the original video, which was. Just me and my two dogs having a bit of fun and suddenly there is Mabel waiting while olive AKA Joe Biden is celebrating victory and he’s staying. Yeah, we’re just presented it without so many explicit words is.

Um, don’t over celebrate too soon. So Mabel is suddenly Trump what’s going on here and she is waiting for that. And then James Woods, the actor who I didn’t realize is, is, is, is quite a diehard Republican. He, he retweeted it and basically was saying, yeah, this is this, is it. Uh, olive. AK Biden is going to get her his come up.

And, uh, so then I suddenly had lots of people from the American, right. Starting to follow me. I’m thinking that I had presented all of them. How’s this allegory for, um, for what was unfolding in the, in the United States and the political scene there. Whereas really it was just a couple of dogs [02:25:00] being tools.

So it was the whole thing was, you know, at the start, it wasn’t just, you know, recently he was Scavino in woods then, but before that, you know, In the spring, it was, it was Mark Hamill and Juliane Moorad, and Ryan Reynolds and, um, you know, Richard Schiff and Bradley Whitford Whitford from the, from the West wing.

So there all these, you know, actors were, um, just stars in America, were getting on board with all of the Mabel. And the whole thing was just, just bizarre, but still the requests kept coming, you know, of Mick make more videos. So it just went on throughout the year. And I, and I think the one which tickled people most was when I stopped doing the.

I mean, people kept saying, I love it when you do the commentary and your dogs, but then the one which really was a sort of a nice shift for me, because I didn’t want to be the part of the commentator because you know, bit, I’ve got to go back and do commentary on series events. I’m supposed to be doing the opening sediment, the Olympics, or Wimbledon, finals, whatever.

And if you’re the guy who commentates on his dogs, you can’t necessarily be [02:26:00] taken too seriously when you’re describing, you know, as I said something on center court at Wimbledon or whatever, it might be at the masters, whatever. So then when I moved it away from the commentary to do a zoom meeting with my dogs, that was the most satisfying thing because that really captured, I think, a moment, uh, well moments throughout this year that we’ve all been feeling, just tied to zoom meetings all the time.

Guys. Thanks for joining us. Just keen to have a chat about where we are in situation at the moment. Uh, I think all of hight, thanks for joining us. Um, maybe you are connected, but you need to start your, start your video. Start at the bottom of the screen a little bit. That’s a camera. It looks like a biscuit.

If you just nudge it with your nose, you don’t have to be so close to you want to move back a bit? All right. Thanks. All right. So basically an update as to where we are. I can see you both look, I’m worried, but the good news from head office is that neither of you is going to be furloughed, but we have to try and repay that loyalty with some of our own.

I know that’s supposed to be a strength of yours. Um, [02:27:00] so what we’re looking for, what managers are looking for ideas. So I, maybe this is one of the things that we have to address the lack of focus at times because, uh, well, there’s the inappropriate stuff with Kevin, the Dorman from accounts as well, but one thing at a time, so things that we have to try and improve on, well, I’m uncomfortable with the chat as well, but.

Maybe you’ve switched off the camera again. Can you switch it back on, switch the video right. There we go. Okay. The annual report, uh, you’ve pretty much ruined the sofas 913 squirrels chase, none cots and not a good return. Uh, so again, thanks to L. Sorry, I’m able, if you’re going to do that, could you just switch off the video function again?

So we don’t have to see it from then on. I just started doing little sketches with the dogs and everyday life online dating or making flat pack furniture. So I’ve enjoyed the whole, the whole experience of it, but my goodness has been strange. How have they lives changed? All of it in Mabel, has the celebrity gone onto their heads to stop an interest in politics?

What’s the story? [02:28:00] I mean, uh, yeah. All of where’s our mega cap. No, she doesn’t. She wouldn’t do that. She wouldn’t do that. I would tell her you’re a bad dog if she did that. So no it’s, um, that they, they get stopped on walks, um, by people. Um, who’s to genuinely say is that all of them nibble. Um, I was up on a Hill in Southwest Scotland.

Um, it’s actually in the, the epilogue to the book. I didn’t mention any of this in the, in the book, but w when I was up there, the medic, uh, Hill in Southwest Scotland, um, in September 10 different people, um, stopped me and said, you know, just by looking at them, I wasn’t even shouting their names just said, is that.

The look is that all live in maple. And then that’s when I realized, you know, kind of how far this had gone into society as a whole nevermind the online world, which is actually quite a small fraction of, you know, because I, I found out that the videos were being passed around and WhatsApp groups and things like that.

So people were just, [02:29:00] you know, all of and Mable genuinely have become quite famous. They don’t know what I li I mean, I appear in a couple of videos, but it’s mostly just my voice. So they don’t know who I am and you know, my, my. You know, uh, recognition from my sports broadcasting was, uh, minimal again, people never see my face anyway.

It’s always just my voice, getting things wrong in a sports commentary. So they don’t know who I am, but by gun they know who all of a Naval Arno though. Oh, that’s great. You see? Yeah, you’re famous. It’s all by proxy. So breeding, breeding, horse breeding to very in the streets. And one interesting thing about labs, British labs are very different than American labs are sort of typically described as more blocky and densely coded the American labs, typically a little bit taller and that’s, and that’s exactly because that’s because over here, well, it depends if you buy Labradors [02:30:00] as, uh, from shorelines or from working lane.

So olive and Mabel are from working lanes, so they are slimmer, they’re lighter. They’re more sort of, uh, yeah. Whereas show Labradors have been bred to be chunking. That’s what we do. And that’s what they do in equine breeding. It’s the selective breeding. It’s right. What do we want here? We want enormous rear haunches for power or whatever.

We can see that. So, okay. So we’re going to, uh, you know, that’s going to be the sign of, that’s going to be the dam. That’s going okay. That’s going to work perfectly. Let’s create something like the mad Einstein, geniuses we are. Um, you know, and, and dog breeding. I find a little bit, I’m a little bit uncomfortable with it because.

We decide. Right. Okay. We want to create something with tiny little legs and a short snote and it’ll have, uh, uh, years made of, uh, I dunno, liquorice or something. I don’t know. So can we, can we make that happen somehow, but we don’t necessarily, um, you know, take into account. W of what the health of the dog is subsequently going to be like, that’s why you have doxins have spine problems and a cavalier King, Charles Spaniels have all sorts of [02:31:00] cranial problems.

Um, you know, the list goes on in terms of blood or whatever, it might be the, you know, we’ve created these dogs Bulldogs with breathing difficulties because we have molded them as we, you know, sometimes for appearance, sometimes for work sometimes for our own entertainment, it’s just. It’s nonsense. I D I just I’d like, I like dogs to be healthy and to be dogs, they are.

They are wolves. They are, you know, you look at the wild dingoes of Australia. That’s kind of your, your sort of archetypal template for a dog and look at what we’ve created. And you look at Chihuahua on a great day and go, this is what they’re the same. Come on. This is how have we done the history? Um, so I don’t know.

I’m I am a list of, I love dogs. But I love dogs being healthy and being dogs. So I’m not a huge fan of the selective breeding that goes into making dogs as we want them to be. I’ve heard it theorized. And I love this theory that in [02:32:00] many ways, Labradors more highly evolved than humans in terms of what their, uh, their way of approaching life.

What do you think about that notion? Um, no, I think we are high, more highly evolved, but in, in our, in our centuries of evolution, we have. Created all sorts of things, which create problems for ourselves in terms of, uh, our desires and our wants are a maca Machiavellian maneuverings to get things. Whereas lumber doors haven’t evolved massively beyond the fact that they just want food and they just wants to be comfortable and they just want to sleep at times.

So they haven’t evolved beyond the basic needs, but the basing needs make them happy. So evolution. Causes a great deal of problems. If we sh if we could devolve somehow, if we could, if we could just go back, you know, um, 10,000 years, and we just wanted food and we just wanted warmth and we just wanted comfort and we want interested in status and [02:33:00] political maneuverings or whatever it might be.

You know, a simpler creature is sometimes a much happier creature than the, the, the sort of higher creatures that we are. Devolution is the new, uh, evolution. Yeah, let’s head backwards. Let’s head back to the swamp on a swamp. I’m not allowed to see the swamp anymore. Why has the swamp been drained? It was the draining of the swamp.

That’s a whole other tangent we could, we could go down. Yeah. Oh, no, let’s not do that. Let’s not do that. Now. Let’s go stay at the Terra firma of pet ownership, because this is something, I mean, pet snack, you know, the Labradors, whatever your pets are now more than ever. Uh, they’ve provided so much comfort during the year 2020, the stories about pet adoption, especially going, uh, going through the roof in the United States.

What would your advice be though for those interested in adopting Labradors, specifically [02:34:00] go into it with your eyes open as well. Don’t think don’t go into it thinking I’m going to get one of those creatures that are, you know, Disney cartoons or the big guys, and I’ll be, I’ll be fun. There’ll be, there’ll be great because.

There are animals that still demand a lot of care. And a lot of attention, a lot of walking, a lot of feeding, a lot of our time and a lot of discipline. If you want to make your lives, you know, you’ll get people who don’t realize everything that’s involved in owning a dog. Beyond the, because I just, like you said, they’re in a Medica and certainly in the UK, people have been getting dogs left right.

And center because they’re looking for that companionship. They’re looking for that connection, that bit of normality, that soothing, but a therapy that dogs offer in this horrible year, but you cannot forget that dogs demand as a huge amount of, of work and involvement from their owners. And, um, you know, for all the, um, As I said, the sort of, sort of cartoonish niceness that dogs present, that [02:35:00] they do need a lot of, um, investment in our time.

And if you’ve got that time and you’ve got there, the energy to do that, but it’s a little bit like, you know, when you were young, did you want to a dog? I wanted a dog when I was young. And then, you know, again, this isn’t the book, but I had, I didn’t want to. Own a dog and to have all that responsibility, I just wanted the dog to be playing with and to, to be stalking occasionally and then to just sort of push it away.

I want to, as the equivalent of being, I wanted to be the uncle or the, you know, of, of children that can just sort of, uh, you know, play with them and then go, yep, go back. Your parents know, cause I can’t be bothered doing all the hard work of, you know, you’re feeding you in whatever it might be. So I’m just, I’m, I’m fun.

Uncle that turns up and just does all the, all the fun stuff with all the responsibilities. So. There’s a lot that goes into owning a dog and you’ve really got to be committed to it. That doesn’t work with, with, uh, with dogs. So that’s all right. Uh, it’s uh, it is a commitment and labs definitely [02:36:00] present their, their own set of challenges.

One of my favorite lists in the book, you talk about how Labradors in some circles are known for wanting human approval and you can train the based on the doling out of approval. But you came up with your own hierarchy of Labrador. That was very accurate in my experience. Yeah. So we were told as well, and a lot of people have told that, you know, dogs will do anything for give them praise.

You know, when they come back to you, give them praise, go, ah, Good. Good talk. Well done go. You’re a great dog. Thank you very much for coming back to her. You don’t have to say that because they don’t understand what you’re saying, but it’s all about the tour and, and it’s all about the encouragement and just fantastic.

Well, well done for coming again. I’m speaking to my dogs. This is what I do, but anyway, they love that and they love being told they’re a good dog and they do, they do love that, but Labradors. So I think in the book, it’s pretty much so, so Labradors hierarchy of what they like as a reward is number one.

[02:37:00] Food number two food at number three. We get to food. Four is also food and five, maybe five, but I’m not sure it even sneaks into the top 10 as human approval because there’ll be nine instances of food that will sneak ahead of it. Cause it’s just all Labradors. It is all about food. Every single moment of every single day.

It’s even when they’re sleeping, you know, you see them dreaming, you think, Oh, is he, is he dreaming about chasing a rabbit? No. He’s thinking about a cake as what he’s thinking about. He’s thinking about bacon. That’s what he’s thinking. He’s not thinking about chasing a rabbit. He’s thinking about chasing a rabbit, which looks like a giant steak maybe, but is not anywhere.

So yeah, they’re just, they are eating machines and, um, yeah, they’re just never happier than when they’re eating. And then the they’re sad that it’s over in about 2.3 seconds. I have thought that it is, there’s definitely a causal connection between their desire to eat and their trainability the fact that they could [02:38:00] do all of these amazing things as service dogs, et cetera.

If they didn’t have this insatiable desire, maybe they wouldn’t be able to do all the amazing. Yeah, exactly. And you’ll, you’ll see, um, uh, you’re working Spaniels who are, you know, Because quite often they’re used as explosive detection dogs, and they’ll do it for the reward of a tennis ball. And actually my dogs love a tennis ball as well, but if you held out a tennis ball and a biscuit and say, Oh, which one of these would you prefer?

Then they wouldn’t even see the tennis ball. It would be invisible to them. So they’d eats the basket and some of your fingers. And then. Once that was over and they’d been checking the bleeding stumps in your hand for any biscuit residue. Then after about five minutes of hunting for any more biscuits, then they might say, Oh God, there’s a, there was a tennis ball there all the time.

Ah, yeah. I’ll have that. No, thank you. But, so it’s all. Yeah, I do love it. When you see, um, you know, these dogs are two airports and somebody may be coming in from a flight in some, [02:39:00] I dunno, nefarious country where there’s there, there is known to be a drug problem. So, and they’re checking the people coming off this flight and the dog just goes and sits down next to somebody and they found drugs in a suitcase or whatever it might be.

And the dog. I love the fight with the dog has no idea what the consequences are for this person. Who’s going off for 20 years in jail. And the dog is just going, ah, I’ve got the tennis ball, got the tennis ball, nailed it, nailed it, nailed it. Nailed it. And so the dog’s just running around wagging its tail.

As this person’s taken off in tears, knowing that their life is over the dogs running around with a slobbery tennis ball going, this is a good day. A couple of more for you. I swear. I’ll let you get on with your evening at some point, but I’m having too much fun. One of the things about the book that surprised me is I feel like almost as much as it is about Oliver maple and your life experience, it’s a book about.

Well, what we call hiking, um, you know, whatever you want, [02:40:00] whatever you want, whatever you want to call it is between mountain eating and hiking. And hillwalking, I think we could use all those, uh, all those, uh, expressions, but that’s where I spend most of my time and not most of my time in normal life. Um, you know, I live in, in the Northwest of England.

No. So it’s still to get to the mountains that I adore in Scotland. It’s a, you know, a good four, four hour, five hour drive or whatever, but, you know, whenever I can, especially in the winter, I get out into the mountains quite often with all of them able, if I’m not doing something that involves, you know, climbing, which they cannot quite yet do climbing up an ice wall.

I mean, there are, God knows. I’ve tried with them. You know, if you put a basket to the top of an, an 80 degree ice wall, then they might get up there such as their desire for that biscuit. But I wouldn’t want to put them through that. So, you know, I go out there with them because it is. It is the greatest joy in my life being out in the mountains with the dogs and it’s an escape from everything.

And that’s, that’s kind of what the book was to me when I was writing it. I was thinking, how do you translate [02:41:00] the, the audio visual success of the videos into. Into book form. And how can I write a book about my dogs? And people have said, what is the book of boats? And they’re kind of saying, I can hear it in the tool and kind of going, this is going to be crap, Andrew, isn’t it.

And I say, and the satisfaction is from some of the reviews coming in and saying, You know, I enjoyed the videos, but I wasn’t sure I was going to enjoy the book, but I really haven’t. It’s because you end up writing, it’s just observations on dog ownership and a sort of memoir, but it’s an escape into the world of dogs and an escape into the mountains.

And we, we all kind of need them escape at the moment. And then you’re writing about dogs and you realize that you’re writing about, about life. You know, as a whole, because dogs are there with you. If you’re a dog owner and a dog lover, those dogs are with you for all aspects of your life. So it’s kind of, you kind of end up writing about, about life in general, because that’s what, um, that’s where that’s, where you’ll find dogs in all aspects of your life.

But, but the mountains [02:42:00] are just that for me, a total escape from everything else that’s going on in the world. Many great stories about hiking with the dogs in the book. Do you have a favorite one that you might want to share with the listeners today? Um, favorite? I see the thing is when I talk about the mountains, it’s not, it’s not necessarily funny.

And I would like to think that the book is largely quite funny, but, um, w when I’m out in the. And the mountains where the dogs it’s, it’s, you know, I’m not a religious person at all, but it gets as close to a sort of spiritual experience for me is, uh, as it, as it can be, um, And there was one claim which I did, which is detailed in just in one chapter.

It was just the longest, the longest day. It was pretty much this time of year when it was kind of the 14th of December two years ago. So it was just about the shortest day of the year, what I decided to take on because that weather window, that tiny weather window in Scotland, it opened, there was good smoke conditions and sun was forecast.

And I thought, right, I’m getting out there. [02:43:00] And I went up into the Cairngorms, which is sort of. Midway up sort of two thirds of the way up Scotland. And, uh, that’s where the big mountains are the big rounded mountains. Um, and. You just disappeared off into there, and there is nothing except for you and whoever you take with you.

And on this occasion, it was olive and Mabel and they’re putting their total trust in you. And that’s the, you feel that connection with you when you’re out in the mountains with the dogs that they are just following you fearfully, because that’s what they do. And their look to you in this area. This is a bit odd and I’m a little bit chilly, but this guy has got, okay.

I trust this guy. So. We went and did Breyer ear and, uh, and Cantrell lock and new. And these are old garlic names, which will mean very little, but they’re big mountains. They’re all in the top five, um, in terms of height and Scotland and, and it was snowy and it was just, we started in the dark and we finished with two hours in the dark and the whole day was just.

I’m not a joy. It was a total, as I said, totally scape. And it was just me and my two dogs [02:44:00] and the wild and the wilderness and the open, uh, mountains. And, um, so it’s not the funniest chapter in the book, although there is something about queen Victoria that does make me laugh in it. But, um, but, uh, but it was just, it was just the most beautiful day and one that’s I’ll remember, you know, until, and hopefully until my dying day.

That’s great. Well, I have one more sporting question for you, cause you mentioned, um, you referred to it as a sporting credo, which I think is a good, a good, a good description. And this is something that I’ve heard for years and English sporting culture, but it applies to horse racing in the USA. And these are terms that get bandied about a lot in USA, horse, race and coverage form.

And class and the expression is formed is temporary class is permanent. Yeah. I was just curious to get your thoughts on that. Well, I think, um, it means that you see it quite a lot in golf. There’s no other sport that really. [02:45:00] Has the highs and lows of form has golf because it can seem to just blow in the wind in your form and you don’t know why, but you get that confidence.

And there are great players who have, you know, disappeared in terms of form David Duvall and in Baker Finch and open champions. And then they just fell off the edge of the cliff and disappeared in terms of form. And it had gone on whether it’s motivation or confidence or whatever. So it means that form.

Is the thing which rises and falls and disappears one day and comes back the next. And you can never quite tell when it’s going to be with you, whether it’s that confidence, that intangible thing that makes, you know, brilliant players who have all the ingredients to be brilliant players, the one what’s the one missing thing.

And it’s usually confidence and confidence either creates that run of, of good form or confidence comes about because you have that form. Um, But class as permanent, you ha class means you are, you have that ability, but it’s just got to suddenly be married to the [02:46:00] form because the formal rise and fall, but the class is always there.

So good players, good sports. People will always have a chance of coming back to the very top because they have that class, but they’ve got to have the form as well. I’ve thought of class in that context as the level at which you were born to compete, let’s see. Yeah, exactly. It’s a class, your sort of natural ability and by natural ability, I mean your natural talent, but also your work ethic and your drive.

You could all the ingredients that those are the things which come together to make the great sports people. You can have somebody with all the natural ability in the world, but if they don’t work hard, they’re not going to make it to the top. If they don’t have the conference, they’re not going to make it to the top.

So that that all makes. The class, but the form can disappear for whatever reason, but if you’ve got a class that should hopefully come back again, And the specifics are obviously different, but the applications to horse racing should be obvious, uh, just in terms of, uh, class and form and the [02:47:00] way in the way that they interact.

But I think people don’t well, I’m sure they do realize, but some people might not realize just how hard all the top, top sports people work. I mean, it’s ridiculous. And I think one of the, the ingredients that I’ve been talking about there that goes into making a top sports person is a little bit of, uh, an obsession with the craft because you can’t stand there and hit 2000 golf balls a day without thinking.

Yeah, you’ve got to be a little bit, almost all seedy, Johnny Wilkinson, David Beckham. These are people who have openly talked about the fact that they are a little bit OCD in terms of everything has to be just right. You look at rough and noodle and the things he does on a tennis court in terms of his, his drink bottles have got to be facing OT.

He won’t step in any lanes on the court. He’s got these superstitions and these fireballs and these, these sort of almost mental weaknesses, but they’re part of his obsession to detail. And just the way he does things. And sports people too, to get to the level, to get to the very [02:48:00] top and a sport. You have to be a little bit awkward.

You have to be a little bit unhinged to want to do that thing over and over and over again, without any particular promise. And a garden tea that you’re going to get there. You know, I mean, you look at sports and racing. I’m sure the depth and racing is pretty strong as well, but you look at football, I mean, soccer or golf or tennis, you can be a brilliant tennis or golf tennis player, or a golfer or a footballer, you know, at your tone level, your County level, your national level, but you’re still a long way short the very top of the pyramid.

So it’s a, there’s no guarantee that you’re going to get there. So two, two, two, Pretend all the hours that it takes to get to the top of the support. You just have to be a little bit weird. Don’t you? I mean, to do that one repetitive action over and over and over again, just with a desire to, to perfect it or to get as good at it as you possibly can.

You know, that’s why a lot of sports people don’t make. Tremendously [02:49:00] interesting interviewees because they’ve, they’ve done this one thing over and over again throughout their life. So why should we expect them to be rounded individuals? There are the barking marred. Aye. That’s great. I brought this up thinking of forces, but as the more you talk about it, the more I realize the better application for my audience is probably thinking of it as horse players or punters.

It’s really pretty similar, similar ideas. I think. The book is all of Mabel and me life and adventures with two very good dogs on sale in the USA. As of today, get it. Wherever books are sold. It is fantastic. Great gift for the dog lover in your life and a great read as well. Andrew Connor, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you very much, Peter cats might not like the book. That’s all I’ll say. So, um, but if you’re a cat lover, you might still like the book, so I’m not ruling out to anybody, but I don’t think too many cats will [02:50:00] buy the book. Thank you bet. Cheers. I’ve enjoyed it. Next up. Very happy to be joined once again by.

The woman we affectionately call. I don’t know how else you’d call it. I mean, it’s an affectionate term. The first lady in the money players podcast, the end, the money media network, even from the thoroughbred retirement. So all is well here, Pete. It’s nice to be back on this like super Saratoga dreary afternoon.

It brightens my day to hear your voice and to get that wonderful blush. Causing, well, we’ll have you here for a couple of reasons today, not least of which is to get our sort of state of the partnership address. This is our second year being ambassador J kit ambassadors, JK, and myself for the TRF. And obviously you’re the founding partner on the whole.

Podcasts just wanted to get the annual update, let people know how are we doing? How did we, [02:51:00] uh, how did, how did the end the money family do in 2020? Oh gosh, you all have absolutely smashed, smashed the goal. Pete, you and J K as amazing ambassador. Leading the herd of the, in the money players podcast community you have, by the end of the year, you will have absolutely crushed a goal of $20,000 for the horses of the TRF.

That is amazing. That is an amazing accomplishment. And I cannot possibly express the gratitude we have for you. And the fact that it’s come from so many amazing individuals. Yeah, across the country and across the world, actually, you’ve, you’ve got folks from Canada, who’ve joined in the end of the money, um, uh, Mo movement.

And, um, it’s just extraordinary. And, and it’s blown the minds of all of my colleagues and the board of the TRF and just shows, it shows what I love to say. Most of all, you could, you could use my funny blush causing epithet, and I will always say that. Prove that the horse [02:52:00] players have the horses in their hearts.

You, you just do. So I just cannot say enough. It’s been so much fun, which is also a, you know, a plus we’ve had a lot of fun doing it together, online in person, all around town. Um, but at the end of the day, we have made it. New meaningful, meaningful contribution to the care of the horses and the TRF herd.

So my thanks. That’s fantastic to hear it makes me very, very happy. And we, we appreciate that so much, but of course, like I always joke when guests come on the show and do a great job and I always say, well, you know, we’re going to have you back soon because no good deed goes unpunished. So it is for us and molesters this isn’t.

It’s great. It’s always good to take that moment and say, Hey. We’ve done a good job this year, but there’s more work to do. And that’s part of what I want to talk to you about as well here today, Kim is starting with the fact that today you were describing a Monday afternoon here in Saratoga. The show will be dropping on Tuesday, and it’s not just any Tuesday it’s giving Tuesday.

And I [02:53:00] know that as you did last year, you’ve got some special initiatives related to that. Uh, listeners to know about, because maybe you gave earlier in the year and have had a couple of good weeks of wagering success and have some more to gain, or, you know, maybe it’s just that time to do some giving in December.

I know a lot of people have picked up on the giving Tuesday vibes, and we want them to be thinking about the TRF. So what do you have planned for giving Tuesday this year? Yes, this is, as I was reflecting on earlier today, this is one of the things that. Makes us feel a little more normal about a year that hasn’t been a facili terribly normal.

Uh, and that’s it. This is an extraordinary time of year. It is the giving time of year. We’ve all given thanks over Thanksgiving. And now we’re moving into the giving of the holiday spirit. So with giving Tuesday, um, the Tiara fully leans into this global movement of, um, inspiring. Many many, many people to give really moderate, [02:54:00] modest gifts.

The God, the goal is together. We can do a lot if we all do a little. And so that spirit of giving to they really is that, um, and what we do each, each journey does their own thing. What we have really focused on at the TFS to create one goal that is extremely tangible, very, very clear and understandable for all of us.

For all of our supporters and donors and friends. And so this year, our theme for tomorrow for giving Tuesday, which is the day that most folks will be listening to, this is the hook. The hook makes the horse. That is our theme for giving Tuesday 20, 20, um, kind of a play on the, the suit makes the man, but then makes the horse because these are.

These are critical ingredients to that. Horse’s health and wellbeing. It’s having those four homes upon which they stand more than 20 hours a day. Some of them even longer than that. Um, and when one Hough fails, um, the health of that animal fails. And so our. Um, our [02:55:00] daily work, our annual work and the work that is supported by the end, the money. Um, great, generous gift is that we, we take care of these creatures and we take care of them from nose, tail to hook. You could sort of say it that way. So the farrier fund is what, um, these, these dollars will be raised tomorrow. Our goal is $15,000 in one day. It would be each year. It is our single largest day of giving of the whole year.

And, um, those dollars. Or the equivalent of three months of our farrier fund. So that’s what it. That’s what it takes us to keep all those hubs across the country, across our herd, um, healthy and well trimmed and in good shape so that they will support those horses every day, three 65. So it is, it is a, it’s an ambitious goal.

It is our most ambitious goal to date for a single giving Tuesday campaign. Um, but we’ve been very encouraged and very grateful to the support we’ve seen for these kinds of campaigns and the thing for your, for your audience. Because coming back to the fact that. Your crew has done a great job this year.

[02:56:00] Um, the one thing I’d love to, to ask of the amazing in the money audiences is not only to maybe think of like, you know, tossing us a few dollars 25, $30 tomorrow to show your support for this campaign. But if you’ve already given. Honestly, without a doubt. The best thing I could ask of each of you to do is to tell one person who hasn’t a friend, a family member, a neighbor, a fellow handicapper, Hey, this is giving Tuesday.

I believe in the TRF. And I think you might want to give them, give them a little something today. It’s a big day for them that that’s my call to action. I don’t know. What do you think about that? I love that idea. Retweeting and sharing. Probably the easiest way having, I love the personal approach too, but if you’re not comfortable or if it’s just.

Easier to do this via social media. I’m sure you’re going to have missives out there on Twitter, Facebook, et cetera, all share them all. That means folks in the, in the money network, uh, extended family. We’ll be seeing them. And if they want to just stick their neck out a little bit, and [02:57:00] regardless if they’re going to be giving on this giving Tuesday or not, if they can retweet and share.

This message. That would be fantastic. And I think just, you mentioned that’s an ambitious goal though. The 15th thousand a day for the farrier fund, helping these retired race horses, getting their three months worth of care, maybe justice once instead of through the, in the money link, it makes sense to go through the general.

Giving Tuesday link that you’re going to have, which I think the easiest way to find is to just go to the website, Tiara, And if you look there right on the homepage, there’s going to be more information about the farrier fund. Now, obviously all the social media is going to have. The link in it.

So if you’re talking about sharing, you know, you don’t have to worry about that specific link, but for those who are just looking to give directly and help with this, uh, important, uh, TRF ink that, or the place to go, does that sound about that? Is that is exactly it. And, um, I so appreciate that. I think that, um, you know, your, your crew has [02:58:00] really drunk the Kool-Aid that you and J K so tasty, I guess that now they can join you and become ambassadors themselves.

And, and it is really fun. As much as, um, just to watch the thermometer throughout the day. And that’s what all of the charities are doing. This is not like a unique trick in our toolbox, but it is, it is really fun as the day goes on to see that creeping across the page and seeing how, you know, many, many gifts together get us a really long way.

And that’s true for us all year long. And everyone, we try to make sure folks understand that, you know, a five, $5 buys a Bay and a bale of hay and that’s. Great. And $15 is a bag of green and you know, these things, this is actually the nice thing about taking care of old resources is that while they are, um, they, they need a lot.

They are. We can do it pretty efficiently. It’s just, it goes a long way. And it is a really fun day for us. One other piece of this, which is for that, for the really horsey hands-on horsey folks who are listening to to us today is that we’re also taking a page from, you know, from the larger social media [02:59:00] playbook.

And that’s this whole drop your beautiful. Fill in the blank, you know, you’ve seen them on the hashtag drop your beautiful horse, head drop, your beautiful dog, drop your beautiful X. So we’re going to do drop your beautiful farrier. So we’re asking all those folks out there in horse land to put on social media, pictures of their farrier, taking care of their cools.

Cause you know, these are the, these are the frontline for, for this work and Oh my gosh. It’s the sleet is coming down in Saratoga. The farriers are out there. And these are the days when they really, really are the heroes for us. So they’re across the country and they’re not just taking care of our horses.

Farriers are a backbone of the whole horse racing and horse industries tomorrow. We’re going to try to celebrate them as much as we’re also trying to raise them some dollars song heroes, no doubt about it. And this is a great way to support them and support the great work you do. Now, before we get out of here, I want to talk.

How about one more thing, because I know giving Tuesday part of its significance is the fact that it kicks off. What are [03:00:00] generally the most four important weeks of the year for any charity in December where you’re trying to make your annual goals and get all the ducks in a row. And I know that a key part of the TRS December work is the hay drive is.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, there are, there are always many, many ways to help. And boy, this is, this is astonishing to me. Quite frankly, I’ve been involved in nonprofits my whole life. I’ve always been a volunteer and I’ve always been a fundraiser in some way, but not until I joined the TRF, have I done it professionally and come to really understand how much of our giving comes in over the next 30 days.

It’s kind of crazy, but it all has a lot to do with taxes and end of year and such thing. So, so we appreciate that and it really is. Tremendous. So one of the things that tends to be the most popular for us as we come into this last four weeks of the year, our gifts towards our hay drive, it is our single largest campaign of [03:01:00] the year because it is our single largest expense item in our budget.

Um, these horses eat. Oh, a lot of hay. So we are looking this year 2020. Our goal for the hay drive is $120,000. Um, happily for us with such gratitude that that is achievable. Thanks to a very generous matching gift that comes from a long time. Um, Supportive family of the TRF and that is the San to Lee family foundation.

They have offered a dollar for dollar match for the first $60,000 that come in. So, uh, and that’s been rolling in we’re just over 47,000 right now on November 30th. Um, so we, we have a ways to go, but we’re. Steam steaming right along. And each dollar that comes in will then be matched by another dollar.

So we will get to our 120 when we hit the 60. Um, so that is something that, um, is just hugely important, especially it’s not just important because it’s a big number, but it’s also important because this is the beginning of the hay [03:02:00] season. The horses have been eating hay now for, you know, depending on where they live between a month to two months.

Um, At this time of year and they will be on that hay up here, especially in New York and even in Kentucky, you know, well into April. So we have to buy a lot of hay like now. Um, I thought I’d mentioned, I know we, weren’t trying to add more things, but something that we just sent a, I sent an email about last week.

And I remember you and I talking about it this time last year is it’s just one more sort of thought, and this is not specific to the TRF it’s for all of the charities that your listeners care about, whether they be in racing or across. Their society and their world is the gift of, um, appreciated assets like stocks and mutual funds is just a throw it in.

There is something to think about time of year, as people are finishing up, they’re giving the gift of one share of appreciated stock is perhaps the most powerful, easy, and effective way to give because it actually doesn’t touch your bank account and you, and it’s something we, we want to make sure that folks keep in their minds.

And I [03:03:00] think as we get into next year, Perhaps going to be even more important as, as we sort of settle into year two of, of this new reality. Um, so just to, you know, put it out there as a little, Google it Google donation of a, of a stock and you’ll see all the benefits you pay. No capital gains, neither do we, we turn it into cash immediately and it’s, it’s cash gift for us.

And it’s, uh, Tax benefit to you. So that’s great folks who have questions about giving and on a larger scale and or tax benefits and stuff like that. I assume as part of your role, Kim, that’s something they can reach out to you about. What’s the best way for them to get ahold of you. But actually before you answer that, just want to mention that if you’re looking to have donations.

Um, roll into that matching program for the hay drive. Again, you can find all that information on the main site TRF Inc org, uh, and in terms of those, uh, other donations of potential tax benefits, et cetera, uh, what’s the best way for folks to learn more about it. [03:04:00] Yeah, and I am that just falls under my, my official hat, which is the director of major gifts and planned giving.

And so I would welcome, welcome people reaching out to me directly. And I’m I’m. Mostly on email, which And I’m always happy to keep watching her. I watch her social media all the time, but the best thing, if you have a question about any of that is just to reach out to me, and I’ll throw it out there.

Uh, if it’s easier for people, if you want to put a. Messaged through the contact on the site, in the money or DM me of that looms boldly, anything I can do to help get this stuff teed up. I know that’s a hugely important part of the work that you do and the way that you keep these horses in.

And, uh, and, and horseshoes and all that good stuff. And the great work that you do over there at the TRR can we are out of time, but I want to thank you very much, really appreciate having you on, on this giving Tuesday. And I look forward to [03:05:00] having you back on again soon, maybe, maybe with some announcements about some other.

So the creative ways folks can support the TRF. I cannot wait, Pete, and I just closed with a huge thanks to you, my friend, to JK and to all of your listeners, you, you are, we are so grateful and this has been fun. That’s going to do it for this edition of the show. I’d like to thank Andrew Cotter, Olivan, Mabel.

What a fun was to get a chance to sit down with him. Something I’ve been wanting to do since I first saw those videos, uh, that was great chat. I really enjoyed it. And then of course, Kim, we are always a joy to have on we’ll. Thank her as well. I’m going to thank our long time partners, not just thoroughbred retirement foundation, but also our friends at 10 strike racing.

Who’ve been with us through the beginning, always root for those purple and black silks, and really appreciate Marshall Graham and clay Sanders and all that they have done for us. Most of all, though, I want to thank all of you, the listeners for making [03:06:00] these shows so much fun to do you have any questions?

Feel free to reach out. In the money through the comments section there, or you can use contact on the website or you can hit us up on Twitter. I’m at looms boldly, J K of course at UT big hair. We’re going to be sending out a note soon about, uh, voicemails. I wouldn’t mind getting some more voicemails.

Those are good episodes to have, especially in December, as we wrap up the year. So be on the lookout for that. I don’t have the number in front of me or I’d give it out here, but we’ll be sending something around on social media to that effect as well. This show’s been a production of in the money media.

Our business manager is drew. Kotani our chief creative officers, Jonathan kitchen. I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. But you went all your photos. [03:07:00] .

 And welcome to let loose episode nine. This is our breeders cup. Look ahead, edition. Number one, I’m your host, Peter Thomas for Nitel. Happy to be back with you in the Brooklyn bunker, getting ready to pack my bags and head out to Lexington, Kentucky. [03:08:00] The site of this year’s breeders’ cup and extremely happy to be joined as I so often am.

On, not just this show, but so many other of the podcast I get to do with my good friend coming to us from the planet, Texas. He’s the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen, JK. What’s up. Trying to figure out why you’re not horizontal. The word on the streets. Are you just ran a marathon? Not a half, not a little five K, but like an actual marathon.

And you’re sitting upright in a chair. I think I would probably be in the hospital.

Good stuff. Um, I’ll tell you this. K. I probably would be in some sort of prone position, but getting excited about the breeders cup. It’s like. In injection of goodness into the veins. It has. Re-energized me. I’m so happy to be here with you. By the time when we turn off this camera in a minute, I probably will hit the floor, but, uh, for the next 20 minutes or so, I’m going to [03:09:00] be in good stead.

Let’s start off talking about this event itself. JK this is a Breeder’s cup, unlike any other, we’re obviously not going to have fans limited amounts of owners. To me, the only possible decision given the, the, the world were living in a, a little bit of a disappointment, but it’s also going to create, um, unique atmosphere.

And I feel like as somebody who is proud to be part of the breeders’ cup content team as are you, and it gives us a little bit of a responsibility to try to bring the fans there. In the outside world, a little bit of the experience of everything that’s going to be going on at this storied racetrack for this great event.

What are your thoughts as we’re heading into this Breeder’s cup? Yeah, there’s a big part of, uh, the story that we had this summer and Saratoga was, was telling the story of what it was to be there, although it wasn’t the same and it’s not what people are used to. I just want people to rewind their brains a little bit to may.

June [03:10:00] July. And that little thought in the back of your head is I hope they run the breeders’ cup. And so I’m fine. They’re running. We’re going to have 14 unbelievable races. It’s unfortunate. But 2020 has been pretty unfortunate as a whole. I’m just glad we’re going to have the races to watch. We’re going to have the races, the bet on the horsemen, the horses, the trainers, the connections.

We’re all going to have an opportunity to crown champions and to finish off their year and next year we’ll be back in a normal, hopefully we’ll be back in a normal situation. And then, uh, keen Lynn will have another opportunity in 20, 22 to do it right. Like I think we all wanted a keen Lynn and the city of Lexington to have the breeders cup.

That is a great point. About 20, 22. I’m already pumping that idea to a lot of the English racing fans. I interact with that that becomes a must target and go to event. And just to underline what you said, I don’t think our friends at twin spires will mind be working a little blue here. J K. It’s been a [03:11:00] crappier and the fact that we have this event to look forward to towards the end of it, um, is something that’s, uh, as a racing fan, very energizing.

And we’re going to talk about some of the horses who are getting your blood pumping. But first I want to talk about our latest offer from our friends at twin spires, new players can use the promo code. Get 200 for a $200 new player bonus head to the twin spires offers page for all the details. You can access that through the twin spires app or

Obviously a lot of people watching this, you’re more dyed in the wool fans, but you’ve got a friends who are sympathetic to all things, uh, gambling and, and, uh, horse racing. And we encourage you to tell them about this. Get 200 mm. Uh, code so they can get their journeys as horse players started. And maybe you can send them to some of our work, both here through the twin spires friends and also over it in the money

Okay. You are a guy known for multi race bats in the past. [03:12:00] You have a, and maybe you’ll be doing this again. This year. Published. Some of your best multi race plays for the two days of the breeders cup sitting here as we are, uh, just over a week out from the event. Are you already starting to formulate sequences that you might be interested in playing and what multi-way sequences do you think you might be targeting at this stage?

Yeah. When it comes to the breeders cup, I’m always looking at these multi-racial beds. I love the pick five on breeders’ cup day. I love the pick six on breeders’ cup day because you’re getting an opportunity to get championship races, grade one races, and roll them all together. And we’ve got great days on Derby day.

We’ve got great days, the Belmont day. Uh, there’s a bunch of great opportunities, Travers days, another one to run together a bunch of steaks, but nothing like the breeders’ cup with all of the great ones. You know what the intent is of the trainers, the owners and the riders. It’s the win on the day. It’s not the set them up for next time.

[03:13:00] And I like being able to look at races and sequences. Uh, in that way. So, uh, those what I’m looking forward to the last year, we were lucky enough to have a dollar pick six out in Santa Anita. We have a dollar pick six this year at Penland. So it gives a lot of people, a lot of opportunities. And, um, I’m really looking forward to those sequences.

So that’s, that’s where all my money will be. It’ll be in the BCBC and in these multi-way sequences. Breeders’ cup betting challenge and amazing opportunity. And I’ll tell you what, if you’re a contest player, it’s something you shoot for all year. And if you’re somebody who bets big and doesn’t know about it, look into it because if you’re going to be betting something along the lines of the 7,500 over the two days that.

Uh, performs as your bank roll in the breeders cup betting challenge. You might as well do that in the context of the contest and have an ability to participate in that prize pool, but just to hold your feet to the fire. If you’re talking, if you’re looking to two sequences, JK, the $1 pick six each day, that’s what really has your attention.

Yeah, more, more specifically on Saturday. Um, I’ll be [03:14:00] looking, I’ll be kind of saving a little bit of extra, uh, powder on Saturday because there was a carry over last year from Friday. So if that happens, I don’t want to bust out on Friday and not have enough to really be able to fire it away at a great opportunity.

On Saturday, also on Friday, you’re not going to have all breeders cup races. You’re going to have something else mixed in underneath possibly the marathon. I’ve looked at the wagering menu yet. Um, so you have to, you know, you’ve got to deal with that, but on Saturday you’re getting straight grade ones.

You’re going to get the sprint. Usually you’re going to get the turf. You’re going to get the mile. You’re going to get, uh, the classic, the Distaff. So there are a lot of reasons why I liked it. That, uh, that Saturday sequence. That’s a great point about that dollar minimum and how it can produce a carry over.

I love your idea. It’s rude for a carry on Friday. Maybe take a flyer, have some fun in case we, uh, you know, pick the world perfectly there, but then really get ready to dial in to that Saturday. Pick six, thinking back to your past breeders’ cups, successes, is there one [03:15:00] that stands out to you one year? One that one horse.

Yeah, there’s two. I think that stand out the most, uh, 2014 Bobby’s kitten. It was my first breeders’ cup betting challenge I ever played in. Uh, we got a real estate office back then and on the white board, I wrote. I don’t care how much I will go all in on Bobby’s kitten at five to one or higher. And, um, unfortunately I just kinda kept losing money all the way until that point I had $2,000 left.

I didn’t feel like that was going to be enough to get where I wanted to be on the five to one. I thought I was going to get on Bobby’s kitten and I blew the 2000 trying to get more so that I could bet Bobby’s kitten, but. I bet Bobby’s kitten in my pocket. And it was one of my biggest wind beds I ever made.

He went off and I think eight or nine to one, that was a very fun breeder. Scott, my friend, Nick tomorrow also had an Epic run in the BCBC that you’re getting fourth, the get seven trifectas. Um, and that was [03:16:00] a fun day. And then last year I mentioned that carry over. We’re hanging out in the trophy lounge, a group of us, uh, Dominic Navitas, uh, Rashard Lewis, a handful of others.

And we, they asked me if we were gonna play the pick six, I created the ticket and I said, guys, it’s kind of expensive. Let’s not do it. And Rashard said, no, let’s do it. I’ll take more. So he took half. We split the rest of it up. We bet it at the last second. And we hit for about $60,000. So that was a, that was a lot of fun, too bad.

I can’t talk about great breeders cup memories without thinking back to 2003, you know, this was a. So the old days kids, I was actually at a simulcast facility. I wasn’t just, I wasn’t playing on the twin spires app back in 2003, I wandered over to Saratoga harness to bet the breeders’ cup at Santa Anita that year.

And, uh, partially on my own handicapping and partially from reports on the ground from my great friend, Sean Clancy. Who was there watching horses work every day. You [03:17:00] know, I think these Mandela horses are going to run really big for them. One I’ll admit I wasn’t sharp enough to have action this day on the tickets, but I had something on the other three and it was a very memorable and pleasing breeders’ cup.

We were partying in Saratoga that night. JKL I can tell you that much. I can party in Saratoga without winning. So I know talk about the specifics of this year’s cup. Obviously we’re doing this before, even the pre entries, but I know you you’re a horse to watch guy, and I bet you’re already starting to form some opinions about the horses.

You’re most excited to see if I asked you to make a list of three who’s the first one that comes to mind. Well, I mean, some of this is bedding. Some of this is fanfare. Some of this is just excitement. I’m really looking forward to seeing Jackie’s warrior has really proven to be a real runner. And I’m looking forward to seeing him kind of getting that two term test.

I’m also very pleased that I said to him and not [03:18:00] her. So that’s another, that’s the first wind of the breeders cup for me. I’m really looking forward to Jackie’s word. Just been impressive fast. Gets out there on the front end, Steve ASMIS and obviously had a ton of success with two year olds this year, really looking forward to Jackie’s warrior.

Um, also, um, really looking forward to Tacoma who is, uh, from what I understand has been pre entered in the sprint six furlongs obviously it’s a question, Mark. He’s got the grade one at seven. This year. He’s got the grade one and the one turn mile. He’s just a really talented horse. I think the draw is going to make a huge deal for him.

If he can draw outside. Yeah. One of those Roy H type of trips where he doesn’t have to be pressed, he can sit, watch. I don’t care how wide he goes. He can be five wide. You can stay in the clear and not get that pressure. I think he could be a lot of fun to watch in the sprint. And then, uh, I’m looking forward to, uh, watching, uh, the Philly, uh, aunt Pearl.

If you remember, there was a lope de Vega Philly couple of years ago [03:19:00] that ran in the juvenile fillies turf and. She was pretty good. I think this one might be good as well. Looking forward to watching this front running forward type of Philly that was bred overseas and looking forward to seeing our run in the juvenile fillies turf.

And when it comes to a betting standpoint, it really just matters where all these races lie, where they land and what other opinions I have built around them. So, um, A couple of years back in the breeders cup betting challenge, I was against Serengeti impres and was into newspaper of record. So I made a big move there.

Uh, it really just depends on what races land, where and how it all unfolds, but those were three horses I’m really looking forward to watching. Let me hit you with a couple of follow ups on them first with Jackie’s warrior and don’t feel bad about slipping that up. Even race scholars have gotten it wrong when it comes to Jackie’s warrior as a horseplayer handicapper.

What tools are you using to determine if, uh, stretching out a little bit farther and, or going the two turns instead of the one turn are going [03:20:00] to be suitable for a runner like that? Or do you not really worry about that? And you’re, you’re just betting the tape and the numbers that you have in front of you.

Yeah. Not concerned with that at all. As it pertains to her.  I know I threw you off. I jinxed you by congratulating you. The thing about Jackie’s warrior is something I got from Richard Migliori and Gary, Stephen got both talked to them privately about this idea about one term verse two, turn. I know you and I have had debates about it as well.

And the idea that in these two turn races, they slow down into the turn. It’s not that it was only, uh, those, those two, uh, the hall of Famer in the hall of Famer quality and Richard Migliori. But it’s the idea that they get the slow down into that first turn. And it doesn’t take as much out of them when they’re on a straightaway they’re actually running.

So the fact that Jackie’s warrior ran as good as he did in that one turn Champaign at Belmont, I have no concerns about him getting. That extra ground in that second term, he’s going to be very hard to beat. And in my [03:21:00] opinion, he’s the most likely winner of the weekend. I think that’s a great points all around regarding Jackie’s warrior the coma.

Are you saying that there’s not going to be a cross center? I was assuming he might be cross centered in the dirt mile and the sprint. Are you saying it’s going to be sprint only. Well, I’m assuming he’ll be cross entered into both. Um, but I actually texted my, my buddy, the what, the beautiful shirts. We have a little bit in common Randy Hill this morning, just to double check.

And he said, He said sprint. And, uh, he’s been looking forward to that. He’s been telling me all year, he was mad at me that I liked volatiles as much as I did. So, uh, he’s, I’m glad I don’t have to deal with that. Sweat, that one with the unfortunate retirement of volatile, we still have a Tacoma to look forward to.

And you mentioned aunt Pearl and obviously making a reference to newspaper of record. Who will be skipping the breeders cup, but it is amazing to see the success American owners and trainers have had at that sale on yeah. Maybe aunt Pearl is going to be the [03:22:00] next, uh, the next one to make people think, Hey, maybe, maybe we should think about buying our turf horses over a town herself.

Forwardly placed turf forces are dangerous as channel maker. Oh, you saw what he’s been able to accomplish in the later half of this year and looking forward to seeing Emron as well. Um, the ground, if they’re a little bit of cut in there, you’d think that the lope de Vega part and being the Irish red wouldn’t give any problems there.

The ground probably won’t be rock. Hard, I would imagine. And she’s floridly placed and she finishes like a good order. So now you’ve seen it with Russian fall. We’ve seen it with newspaper of record being on the front end and still being able to finish to dangerous, dangerous weapon in this, uh, in this country.

It’s it’s the whole game for sure. And while we’re talking about European invaders, JK, I want to give you one of the horses that I’m the most excited about. Obviously it’s, it’s early yet, and there’s a lot more to a lot more work to be done, but, uh, Tarnoff Iowa is a Philly. Who’s worth paying a whole lot of attention to this [03:23:00] was a run the last day that I’m not sure if the officials ratings fully capture how good it was in the creedal opera, where I felt like the race flow was against her slow.

She was wide. She was back and still, despite being compromised was able to Quicken and win there. She’s got the kind of acceleration that I think will be really suited to USA racing and is one to really look out for. I feel like you could make a case that turnover would have won the arc. Had that been the target that day and with those kinds of credentials, but not necessarily like the readings and numbers that go along with it, maybe we can get a little bit of value.

I don’t know if they’re going to go filly and mare turf or turf just yet. That’s one of the things I’m looking at, probably another that will be cross entered and we’ll have to pay attention to, but I don’t know how much work you’ve done on the [03:24:00] euros. Yeah. But I w I would suggest you take a look at some of that tape.

Oh, I was waiting to, to, to let you do what you just did and waiting for our friend, Nick lock-in. Uh, what else do I need? There’s some domestic courses I’m interested in two J K and one. I’m not sure I’m not committing to him as a bet yet, but I’m really interested to see how tos the law continues to train.

Into this year’s breeders’ cup. I mean, this is a horse was being talked about in the same tones by seasoned horse players and racing industry veterans as Seattle slew and whatever happened in the Derby happened in the Derby. I can come up with a bunch of different excuses. They might all be right. None of them might be right.

Maybe he got. A little bit lit up into the first turn. Maybe he doesn’t like Churchill downs, maybe a big 10 for a long effort at Saratoga. A few weeks before meant that it wasn’t his eight plus race in the Kentucky Derby looking at [03:25:00] how Swiss skydiver after a big 10 for a long run, um, at Saratoga ran in the Oaks versus how she did a few weeks later.

Know those excuses might be right. None of them might be right. But one thing I’ll tell you is right. If that’s your bad race, You’re really, really good. And if he gives off some of those vibes in his training and we’ll be lucky enough to be out there the week of, and watching things ourselves, and talking to insiders who really know what’s going on with the physicality of horses, if he’s giving indications that he’s ready to move forward again, and there’s any chance he’s going to run his best race at the price, he’s going to be.

That’s a runner. Who’s going to be on my tickets. Can you, can you see him? Are you, are you, is he, is he one that you’re, you’re thinking about or are you full on silver wig when it comes to the breeders’ cup classic? Oh, no, that was Barkley tag ball. There’s he? He’s got a little silver up there. Um, no, look I, everything you said makes sense.

I think that this is going to be a great race to watch and I’m [03:26:00] looking forward to seeing if TIS the law can kind of turn it around. I remember in an interview, I believe with Maggie Wolf and Dale, the week after Mandy got back and was riding from, uh, from Churchill East, he was pretty adamant that TISM law.

Didn’t appreciate that racetrack. A lot of times people say that to jockey talk or that’s a trainer talk, but it’s talk and it’s talk that I’m listening to all consider, uh, he’s a horse that I will take into consideration, but he’s gonna have his hands full with some older horses. Uh, one other I want to mention.

It’s interesting because she’s not one, I don’t think I’ve ever been on, but I think of going to be honor in the turf sprint. Got stormy, the form that she’s in and the recent course and distance success and overall sharpness and the types of fields that usually show up in a, in a turf sprint, she might just have class to edge all over this group and she’s been approved.

The, she can do the discipline. Now I get it. It’s a race where you could find live 12 to one shots, you [03:27:00] know, seemingly every year, but I’m not so sure that, uh, getting stuck in to God’s stormy, isn’t a bad idea in the turf sprint. Have you given that race any thought yet? Um, yeah. You know, look, I, I’m not going to argue with God stormy.

She’s been pretty good. Uh, and the lighter part of the year started off pretty slow, but then, uh, after running, uh, I believe it was second in the, uh, four-star Dave. Um, she kind of turned around a little bit and started to kind of show the old gut stormy we remembered. And this new sprinting got stormy seems to be a happy one.

There’s another affiliate in there, I think is interesting. We’ll see if they pre-internet, Aleksandra I’m looking forward to watching, uh, Leinster obviously is turned out to be a pretty good one in his own. Right. So I think what’s happened with her is she has caught a couple of. Not top quality sprint fields as a, you know, miler type and has beaten them on class alone, or she’s going to need to bring her a game to beat some of these sprinters, uh, especially going the five and a half of chemo.

It’ll be interesting to see [03:28:00] that’s for sure. Uh, before we wrap things up, JK, I did want to ask you if you just had, we talked about sequences before. What about if I ask you to pin it down to one race, one must see TV race on each day. Let’s start with Friday. What are you most looking forward to? Um, I think from a, from a superstar performance.

Possibility. I’m looking forward to seeing the juvenile. Obviously I want to see what, uh, Jackie’s warrior does. Uh, the male Jackie’s warrior. I also, uh, aunt Pearl I think is interesting too. Could be a superstar in the making similar to what we saw with newspaper of record. And then on Saturday, uh, you talk about my CTV and it’s, it’s a great betting race as well.

I can not wait. Uh, to watch this classic, you mentioned Disney law. Uh, the other three-year-old authentic. Uh, you get maximum security, uh, who, uh, crossed the wire first at a $20 million race. Earlier this year, you get Tom’s the top, you get improbable. Uh, the list goes on of what we’re going to see here in this race.

I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. [03:29:00] Um, to, to, to see what happens and that classic, a lot of times it seemed a little lopsided in the class. You know, you look back to arrogant in California, Chrome. Those are the only two that could win that race. In my opinion, American Pharaoh back in 2015, um, you know, gun runner, uh, back at Del Mar.

And so it, it, it, it really kind of feels like this is one of the most wide open classics we’ve seen in a very long time. A lot of horses with the chance to deliver superstar performances, you didn’t leave any meat on that bone. For me, those were the races I was likely to mention anyway, JK. So I’ll, I’ll leave that one with you.

I do want to remind folks about, uh, the, the offer that we have for new players. If you use that promo code, get 200, you can get a $200 new player bonus. You can get more details on that offer and other offers. If you go to the offer page or find it through the twin spires app, you also have the opportunity to opt in for a Churchill downs [03:30:00] bet back promotion this weekend.

Once again, you’ll find all the information. If you go to the twin spires website, twin and the Twitter bar’s app is good. Giving push notifications to let you know about special opportunities coming up. I hit a pick for the other week simply because there was a really good offer on it. And, uh, it’s, it’s good to know about these things, so you can get involved.

I do want to give, uh, some programming notes before we get out of here. The next two episodes of let loose with me and JK are going to be happening on November 3rd and November 5th. You can find them through the twin spires, Twitter app, twin spires, or if you follow twin spires on YouTube and Facebook, we’d appreciate it.

If you followed along there, and then I’m also psyched to be doing some previews with an old friend of mine. One of the first people I ever worked with at twin spires, gosh, probably 10 years ago. I did some fun work with ed DeRosa. We’re going to be doing some stuff, focusing on more of the international runners that those are going to be dropping October 30th and November 1st, [03:31:00] once again.

At twin spires, twin spires, YouTube, and the Facebook pages. And with that J K, I’m going to thank you. I’m going to thank our friends at betting on content. And also of course, the good folks over at twin spires, looking forward to talking all about the breeders cup with you here and over in the money and for those watching, until we see each other again, now you want all your photos.

 Hello, and welcome to let loose episode eight. I’m your host, Peter Thomas for Nitel. Actually, I realized. This is the first time for one of the let loose shows that we’ve been doing this with me in the world, famous Brooklyn bunker, which you can see behind me littered with racing memorabilia. And of course, a whole lot of classic vinyl.

And I’m bringing in the co-host of the show, a man, uh, a modern classic, if you will, in his world, famous set up, back over there on the planet, [03:32:00] Texas. He’s the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen. What’s up. My man. What’s going on it’s, uh, it’s football season. And, uh, I could care less than about that Cowboys and the Texans, but my Longhorns are letting us down.

So, uh, usually there’s a big sense of pride that I’m here from Austin, but. A little bit embarrassed that I’m sorry to hear that. Well, it could have been worse. I know you’d already conceded defeat and week one, when you pulled that one out of the fire, perhaps your team will be able to pull the season out of the fire as well, but we’re not here to talk about college football JK.

We’re here to talk about horse racing. This is really the last weekend of super serious. Breeders’ cup prep, races. We’ve got a bunch of them to talk about. We’re going to get to that in a minute. First. I want to tell you about this new twin spires offer code promotion. We’ve got another good one this week.

Twin spires players can opt in for the pick for wind insurance. Belmont park offered this weekend and Monday for holiday racing. You can head to the twin spires [03:33:00] offers page for all the details. But basically what we have going here is on the late pick four, you will be refunded for 25% of your losing bets up to $50.

That’s a giant de facto rebate and great encouragement to get involved in a pool that I know a lot of the players listening to let loose and watching let loose, are going to enjoy. So make sure to check that out. Opt in over the twin spires offers page, check it out through the app or

J K we’ll start this show the way we’ve started all these let loose shows. Generally speaking, which of the races this weekend are you most looking forward to? Yeah, I’m really looking forward to the two year old races at Belmont. I think those are going to be the two grade ones in the present and the champagne, obviously, uh, the winners of these races will likely go on to be favored or at least single digit choices in the Breeder’s cup, juvenile and juvenile Philly.

So. I think it’s always exciting to see these races. And at one turn mile, I [03:34:00] think is it’s kinda one of the tests that, that, that these horses have to come across as they mature into three-year-olds. And so really looking forward to seeing, uh, Jackie’s warrior and, you know, reinvestment risk kind of hook back up.

So those are the races I’m looking forward to the most. That’s a perfect segue JK into our first topic today in asthma, soon we trust we saw the impressive squadron of two-year-olds that Steve, to set out this summer, especially around Saratoga when it comes to this year, champagne, uh, Jackie’s warrior has a little bit more of a body of work.

Is it as simple as singling Jackie’s warrior in the champagne? No, I don’t think it’s that simple. I mean, obviously Jackie’s warrior is likely the most likely winner Jackie’s warrior is a tactical type that can put himself into position where it doesn’t really matter what happens with the others. They can go fast, they can go slow.

And I think the Jackie’s warrior is the type of horse that can take [03:35:00] advantage of. Any of those pay scenarios, but there is that extra for along that comes into the picture. So that obviously is something that could eventually become a problem for Jackie’s warrior. I don’t predict that it will just buy Jackie Warrior’s running style, but I do think it’s at least something to take into consideration.

And then there’s the opportunity which we see in these two year old races. And even sometimes early in the three-year-old year is those distances start to get a bit, a little bit longer. And sometimes these horses start to show their true colors and there’s a possibility, no one would be shocked if we wake up Sunday morning or at least, uh, after this race on Saturday that the risk happened to appreciate the added distance and what we thought he was.

He showed up and Jackie’s warrior hit a wall around the, uh, around the April. It’s completely possible. I don’t think it’s going to happen, but it’s always a, a, it’s always a consideration. In terms of your horizontal play in this race, what percentage do you see running through Jackie’s warrior, as opposed to going with your backup re-investment risk?

I’d say [03:36:00] about 70%, 70%. Jackie’s warrior and 3% through reinvestment risk. I mean, I liked reinvestment risk. Last time I thought potentially that the seven furlongs is going to be a pumper Jackie’s warrior Jackie’s warrior is going to be a short price in here. Reinvestment risk is going to kind of get thrown out with the bath water, I think based on the last race and Jackie’s warrior winning.

So impressively, but I still think there’s a world in which reinvestment risk could. Turn out to be a really good horse and, and, um, I’m still gonna lean on Jackie’s warrior. That’ll still be my pick just because I’m a huge fan of speed and speed kills and a lot of these situations. And I feel like Jackie’s warrior will be able to do that.

Uh, but I would not be shocked if reinvestment risk got the job done and I’ll have reinvestment risk for a little bit of penny for a couple of pennies. Let’s move on to the other grade one for two-year-olds you mentioned up top JK, the first set. Do you think the Saratoga form is going to hold up here for Cantata and vacate?

Could you see an upset with the likes of a CILO or a Bentley Combs? I did notice that still is damn [03:37:00] sitting at the bar. Just had a winner last week at Kaitlin. How are things going to play out in the grade one for Zach? Yeah. And I think this is very similar to the champagne where the focus is going to be between two horses, the Quist, and, uh, Contorta and look, it’s probably a little bit unfair cause Cantata has really nothing to do with what happened with calibrate last week, but it was just a reminder that, uh, those impressive maiden performances don’t always necessarily translate into a quality stakes performance can continue to do that.

Sure. Uh, will she do it very likely, but I think she’s going to take enough money in here that V. Based on what I saw last time. It is one that I think I’d want to take into consideration here. And the rail, not the easiest situation. Cantata definitely has a better draw, but man, Chris was impressive last time and I can’t get my eyes away from that one.

Tactical enough. Then I’ve also noticed watching Belmont a lot, this meet, uh, the rails, not exactly been where you want it to be, but in these smaller, tight fields, It’s very easy for horses to [03:38:00] avoid getting down there. They can stay in the two or the three paths. So you don’t have to necessarily worry about a rail draw leading to, uh, uh, horses, uh, you know, trouble being stuck down towards the inside.

It’s a great point about the way track bias works relative to field side. Give me a quick thought about Cilla. Coming off this blowout win at Delaware park. JK. Is this one a possible option? Yeah, look I’ve last month. I think a couple of times I’ve I’ve said that if a horse wins I’ll retire, if the horse wins, I’ll get off the show.

So I I’ve wanted to do something ridiculous like that, but I know that I’ll put her right in the winner circle. I don’t see it. She’s just not fast enough on paper. I, I get that. She got that seven Furlong that seven LinkedIn, a win down at Delaware, but. These are real race horses that are running real time.

She’s going to have to improve on some scales, 30 points to beat some of the, maybe even 40. I don’t see that happening. Not an easy feat that’s for sure. Let’s move on to our [03:39:00] third topic, Jacob, we’re going to be talking about the historic flower bowl. We’ve got grade one action here. Three of the runners in this race coming out of the Glens falls in civil union, my sister Nat and bow bell, Chad Brown, you will not be surprised at all to hear has won six of the last 10 runnings of this race.

JK, what do you think’s going to happen in this year’s flower bowl? Well, it’s interesting. I think that a lot of these horses are running for $250,000, but it feels like my sister Nat is running for a lot more. Uh, if she can get that grade. One, when being a half to sister, Charlie, and as well as a is what we saw last weekend.

And the arc was solstice. This is a horse. That’s obviously getting this great one means a whole lot to her and to Peter Brant and our value here. I just think she’s a cut below. I ended up going with civil union is a horse that in these long distance turf races, I’m looking for horses that Quicken quick in a word that I, I like to say I [03:40:00] got from the Mattise brothers, Duke and Paul Matisse, where it says identifying.

How a horse can quick it within a race, not necessarily how fast they run at the end of the race or how fast they run the entire race, which is a thing that I think a lot of people look for in turf racing, but how quickly they get to that top line speed and trying to find those internal moves. And I felt like civil union had the fastest Quicken in this race.

And despite what might be a fast paced, slow pace, whatever happens, I feel like still will union will be able to overcome it with that Quicken. I went with civil union in here. She’s versatile and has certainly done nothing wrong in the TC brothers. You mentioned professional betters who are also a horse player, activists and involved in owning and breeding.

Always nice to give shout outs to them. What about Lawson? Yarai in here? JK. This was my pick. This is one who had trouble going longer. Earlier in the career when failing to settle early in races looks like a different beast to me. Now, this is the one I went with [03:41:00] figuring fits on form and figure should get a good trip.

If she can just handle the distance. I think she can. Yeah. I mean, the distance is the biggest question. Obviously. Uh, she, she tried the nine and a half and that didn’t really go well, but she ran third. She was 11 to one that day 12 to one. So there’s obviously, it’s not like she was meant to win and, and the distance hit her in the face.

I just feel like there’s a lot of horses in here that can handle the distance. And I’d rather look to one who can and has proven to handle it rather than one that you’re hoping or thinking. Might I wouldn’t be shocked this horse won, but I think the fact that you, when you keep a horse around eight. Is there a mile and a 16th of that mile.

I think that you’re, you’re kind of showing your hand. That’s what you think the best distance is. And that’s a great one. And if you can get a grade one win for a Philly, um, it’s always, or a mayor, it’s always very important. So I think sometimes you’ll see horses taking shots in situations like this. My gamble is that Lawson yard is taking a shot in here to see if the mile and a quarter is going to work.

But I’m going to go with a couple of others that I think can [03:42:00] handle the mile and a quarter. Really looking forward to this one, let’s move on to race. Number four, you talk about the importance of grade one wins for Phillies and mayors. It can mean something on the male side too. And the horse we’ve spent a lot of time talking about on the podcast, still seeking his first grade one.

He’ll probably never have a better chance to get it. I’m talking of course, about Tacitus. Uh, I was able to see your picks before we went on air. J K seems like you may be getting a little bit sick of tacit as his act, but I’m ready for him to step up and get the business done here. Give us your analysis of this year’s jockey club.

Yeah. When it comes to tasks and it’s not, I’m not a Tacitus, a hater, like some people are. I think he’s a very talented horse who has. Either gotten unlucky or creates unlucky situations for himself. Now, what we saw in the suburban was, uh, neither of those things happening. He, he didn’t get in his own way and he wasn’t unlucky in the race and he got the job done, but I couldn’t [03:43:00] help, but realize global campaign did something to task this that I think another horse in this race will do, which is go out on the front end.

And be a good horse in task. This needs to run them down. And I just don’t trust that task. This is going to be able to do that in this situation. And I feel like happy saber is the type of horse that is a progressive type that’s going to continue to improve. Um, I like the fact that, uh, Todd Pletcher trains this one, we’ve talked about it all summer, those mile and an eighth races at Saratoga and talking about Todd’s prowess is creating stallions long distance on the dirt is Todd’s game.

When he stretches one. Out, they can usually handle it. That’s why he’s got so many stylings. You make stallions in this country by making a long distance dirt horses. And that’s what I think happy saver is. I liked that they passed on, on the Preakness for an opportunity to run in this mile and a quarter grade one, which makes me think that he can handle the distance he’s drawn towards the inside should be aggressive, small field.

I predict he’ll be on the lead. Task, this will be [03:44:00] coming at them, but I think happy, stable. Well, hold on. Would it guys, you JK to learn, you talk about the, the Pletcher, um, prowess and these long distance turf races that he doesn’t have a jockey club, gold cup on his resume. I have that in my notes here and I find it almost unbelievable.

Anyone last year. W what was the horse last year? Vino rasa, of course. Yeah. No, cause he got taken down. He can cross the wire first. So he does have a cross the wire first in the jockey club, gold cup. The notes are technically right, but you’re Johnny on the spot with that, uh, that analysis. So I assume that doesn’t bother you one bit.

Not at all. J K when it comes to playing these races at Belmont on Saturday, is there a particular spot you’re looking to get stuck in? Well, I’m looking forward to the early pick five. That’s going to wrap up with those two grade ones and raise four and raise five with Jackie’s warrior. Uh, as well as V quest.

I think there’s some things you can do there with maybe some aggressive, double singling, those two or whichever ones you happen to. Like, I don’t think you need to [03:45:00] spread in those races. And then I’m also looking forward to, uh, the, the pick six, a mandatory payout in the empire six. So I’ll be looking forward to trying to get, uh, pick up some equity by beating tasks that this with happy saver, I’ll obviously have tasks for this.

In there as well, but I’ll try to pick up some equity, uh, by leaning on happy saver. I love the idea of taking advantage of this twin spires promotion, the wind Sharon’s 25% of the bet back up to $50 in the late pick four, which starts off with a race. I really liked the one we talked about before the flower bowl.

I’m going to kick off with the, both of our horses, Lawson DRA. And civil union in there. I may use my sister Nat for some backups just because she was close with civil union. Last time against the flow. I like both of our horses and the jockey club, gold cup, Tacitus, and happy saver. And then just very quickly in the sands point, I like miss J McKay and Tama here in that spot.

And I feel like you can maybe get out of the last race using three or four. The likes of 11 [03:46:00] violent. I am seven, the promise road, 10 Amity Island. And the favorite number two, Harold angel. I might go ahead and tackle that pick for taking advantage of this promo. And that’s going to be my main play at Belmont.

Of course, we’ll be messing around all over the card. Folks, interested in my thoughts on the whole thing. Can go over to the expert, picks on twin spires. You love my thoughts for the whole Belmont card, and you can go out to California and get Jay thoughts on those races as well. Let’s move out to Keeneland on Saturday JK.

There’s some really good stuff going on in there. Our first topic is going to be a race. I look forward to every year with the three-year-olds going a mile and an eighth on the turf in the Q E two challenge cup agreed one. We’ve got rematches happening here from the Belmont Oaks and from. The dueling ground Oaks, which of those races JK do you think is more likely to be the key prep for this year’s QE two.

Oh, the Belmont Oaks for sure. I was very, very impressed with magic attitude. I thought she did it [03:47:00] well. She’d get it closing into a slow pace and see anything that I do. You know, that’s one of my favorite angles. She had the trouble in that race and she was so impressive. And what I love about a horse second time with a rider.

Is that now Javier knows what he has underneath him. It’s always a question what’s going to happen when I ask, where am I at? And what kind of kick am I going to get? When I asked, can I get out of this trouble? Can I not? Now he knows what he was sitting on. You’ll ride her more confidently this time. Be able to make, uh, take some risks and understand when to pull the trigger.

When not to pull the trigger, I’m really looking forward to seeing her run again. She is back pretty quick. Uh, but you see that often in Europe, mostly these horses are trained. They can come back quick and really chilly ran for about three eights of a mile. She’s a very small Philly. I remember noticing that watching her run.

So I’m not worried about her losing a bunch of weight, not running her performance. She’s already pretty tiny. So I don’t think there’s going to be any problem with her in that regard. The other one that I’ll mention, just because she possesses [03:48:00] something that we see so often in turf races, it’s these tactical turf types sweet Melania could be out on the front end.

She likes it at keen Linn, uh, with that kind of unique sand based surface. And I think sweet Leilani is one that could potentially take advantage of the pace scenario in here and could wow us with a performance. But for me, magic attitude looks too tough. I was hoping Antoinette would keep sweet Milan.

Yeah. Honest, but who knows? Maybe after trying the front running tactics last night, I’ll be wrong and you’ll be right. And sweet. Melania will be out there if they go too fast. And if the price is right, I’m pretty intrigued by number seven Michellene in this spot. JK, I thought just thought looking at the figures and internal fractions that, that dueling ground Oaks, that $500,000 race back at Kentucky downs could prove to be the key form line.

I definitely want some Michellene and Harvey’s little goals somewhere. Are you willing to completely stand against those writers? And I gotta be honest. A lot of times when a figure comes up fast and Kentucky downs, I just don’t. [03:49:00] Quite trusted. Now they’ve had some timing issues in the past. And so it’s always, always taken with a grain of salt.

And plus that course is so different, you know, you’re up, you’re down, you’re left. You’re right. And I think sometimes it can be a little misleading. So sometimes I try to, to, to mentally cross out the speed figure and look at what they’ve done elsewhere and, and see how that translates. And look, I just think magic attitude is too good, uh, for these types.

And if anyone’s going to take advantage of the pace scenario, I’m fairly confident that it would be sweet Melania. Although Antoinette, like you’ve mentioned has been forward and her last two races she’s been forward in crawls. If you look at sweet Malani as abilities based as what she did as a two year old, and at some points of her three-year-old year, she actually has some real legit speed, uh, to, to get to the front end.

If that’s where, uh, where they decide to go with her. Let’s talk about the California shippers in here. JK, normally you and I are always, uh, espousing the virtues of turf form shipping West and can be pretty cynical when it comes to Western [03:50:00] turf form shipping East. But then when you go down and you look at just the morning lines here on the likes of California kook at 12 to one and red Lark at 10 to one, I think it’s at least worth asking the question.

Are we possibly underrating these runners? Do the California shippers have a chance? Um, no, they, they can beat me. I always try to beat these California horses and obviously it’s jumped up and bit me a few times, but it’s just, I, I just feel like it’s, uh, you know, the way that these turf races are run on the East coast, uh, the condition of the course, I just feel like all of those things kind of put California horses up against it.

So, uh, you know, in the. Situations, I’ve never leaning on. And especially in the breeders cup, I know we’re not this isn’t a breeders cup race, but as we get closer to the breeders’ cup, I think it’s a good example that even all the races that are run in California, California turf horses, don’t win very often.

And I think that there’s an indicator there that the California turf horses just happened to be a cut below, no offense to them, the California dirt horses [03:51:00] typically dust up the East coast dirt horses. So it’s, uh, it depends on where you’re from, whether it’s the green stuff or the Brown stuff. There you go quick thought before we leave Keene Lynn J K on the race that goes as number eight, the grade two Fiat stakes.

I had a foot boring opinion in here, which is that I like Mr. Freeze a whole lot to potentially be the controlling speed and to get the job done. Do you have an opinion on this one? Yeah, kind of like title ready, ran into by my standards last time, uh, was closing in to that slow pace, uh, was kind of stuck down towards the inside.

I think the title ready is interesting. He’s he’s won two times at Keeneland. Uh, he’s been to Keelan three times. He’s won twice was second once. So it just feels like the type of horse that could be picking up the pieces. It’s a Dallas Stewart, it’s a big race. It’s Cory land, or, you know, he’s gonna say Brown, make one run.

And I think that he’s a, the one that I’m interested in. That’s the other one who came up over on the player’s podcast, where we did the keen Lynn late pick four. So [03:52:00] definitely respect for that one as well. We’re going to get to our best bets in one second here, JK, but I just want to remind folks one more time to opt into this pick for wind insurance at Belmont park offered this weekend, uh, and, and Monday.

So it is it’s actually Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, you can get. 25% of your pick for back, refund it to you up to $50. Fantastic opportunity. Head to the twin spires offers page for all the details and more. There’s also some bet back action at Santa Anita. This weekend, check out JKS expert picks on the twin spires site or the twin spires app for Santa Anita and take advantage of all the offers over there at the twin spires offers page.

Now it’s time for the rubber to meet the road. My friend. Give me your, uh, give me your best bet on the weekend. It can be at Keeneland, but if you have something else you want to bust out there, we can go that direction as well. Yeah. And I think that of all the pics we’ve talked about the most value, I think kind of lands on title already, but one that I’m really excited [03:53:00] about making as the pick five early at Belmont singling Jackie’s warrior is that kind of pressed a singling, the questions kind of that press a and then having some saviors on reinvestment risk.

And Contano, I think that if you could find one more single earlier in that sequence, or one more spot where you can get skinny early in that sequence. You have an opportunity to really kind of double punch that pick five, maybe hit it for $3, $4, $5, $10, $50, depending on what your bank roll is. So that’s a, that’s a sequence and I’m looking forward to getting involved with.

I’m going to be, uh, I’m going to be stubborn and stick to my guns. I’m going to see if I can be right. You make a compelling case for why to maybe take that Kentucky downs form with a grain of salt, but I’m going to try to get through this Q E two cup in late picks at Keeneland on Saturday using Harvey’s little Goyle and Michaline.

I probably will. In all fairness, have a backup with magic attitude who I also was very impressed by last time. But, but that, that’s my main thought there. And I agree with the adding title [03:54:00] ready. To the mix in race. Number eight, along with Mr. Freeze, um, there are doubles connecting those two races. So maybe that’s a pool.

I’m going to focus on with those two steaks at Keeneland on-site Saturday. And that’s about all the time we have JK want to thank you for your time today. I want to thank our friends over at twin spires and betting on content. We will be back in short order. Previewing the breeders cup and talking all about everything going on in the world of racist, bringing you exciting promotional offers as well until the next time may you with all your photos.

 Your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the DRF players podcast. This is show number five, the Tuesday, January [03:55:00] 8th, 2019 edition. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a towel back with you in the Brooklyn bunker. Once again, Mugsy the handicapping Labrador alongside. It’s a new year.

We’ve got triple crown prep races to talk about very exciting stuff. Special guest later on the show today, we have Joe, Migliori going to be joining us to talk about his role as a partner representative with West point thoroughbreds. But before we get to any of that, I want to bring in my cohost he’s back on the planet, Texas.

He’s the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen. What’s up my man PTF. What’s going on. Things are good. Things are good. Have been doing all kinds of podcasting things what’s been going on with you. I’m hanging out. I, uh, I, uh, what did I do? I went to the Texas basketball game this weekend. Uh, we beat West Virginia.

What else did I do? Uh, watch football. I just hung out. I didn’t do a whole lot. My mom came and made [03:56:00] spaghetti. Nice. That’s your favorite? Yeah. She like hit me with the childhood recipe. I’d just like sitting on the couch.

We’ve got to get her, uh, hopefully, maybe at the little house on the East side, the summer to make that spaghetti for all of us. You think she’d be game? Absolutely. I just, I’m not, I’m not sure how, uh, Uh, as a, as a new Yorker, uh, with the ethnic background that you do have, um, I don’t want to disappoint you.

Hey man. I just appreciate the opportunity to hang out with family and have some, uh, and have some good times. It reminds me of I’ve actually been, uh, on one of my flights. I ended up watching like three episodes, the big bang theory, and I never watched the show. And it’s 12 season existence. But now I’ve kind of started and I’m, I’m, uh, three seasons in of a, of a big bang binge, but it reminds me that that Sheldon likes little hot dogs cut up into spaghetti.

So I don’t have any little hot [03:57:00] dogs, but I just, you know, it might just be a childhood thing for me. I’m not trying to, you know, we’re not going to bottle it and sell it. I don’t think is Sheldon the character you relate to on that show. No, not at all. Sheldon Reno. Sheldon reminds me of a little bit is our friend, Nick Tamra.

Sheldon’s a lot more like annoying and like, whatever. Nick’s not like that, but Nick’s that guy that has, has some knowledge of everything. And he’s extremely particular about a lot of different things. Like, you know, where he’s at, where you, you know, uh, so, uh, they, they remind me of each other, uh, of each other a little.

That’s brilliant. We’ll have to have Nick on. We’ll ask him about that. When we have him on soon to talk about some racing somewhere. In the land prop, presumably at his old stomping grounds has continued stopping grounds really, but his old stomping grounds as a public handicapper in the Niara circuit.

So we’ll get that. We’ll get that teed up. I mentioned I’ve been doing all these podcasting things. One little piece of housekeeping. Before we get on with the show, [03:58:00] I have created a survey. A lot of people have asked what they can do to help out the show. I’m going to write a whole blog, post detailing, all the little ways, the little things you as listeners can do that will help us along one of them, of course, subscribing to the podcast, feed iTunes, a great place to do that.

Those links are always going to be in the blog. Listening to the shows obviously is a big help, but we’re going to do a little bit of a demographic survey that I believe will help us out with our advertisers. And I’ve created it. It’s 10 questions. It’s really easy. And you can find the link either on.

Either of our Twitters. I’m at looms boldly of course, J K at UT big hair, but I’m also going to post it on the blog. So go to in the money no WW in there, just in the money and you can follow the link and answer these 10 simple questions can help us a lot with our sponsorship, just starting to have conversations.

Things are really percolating, JK. I’m [03:59:00] very pleased with all the. The industry interest right out of the gate in terms of helping us along and making this into a viable venture you up for coming along for the ride. Absolutely. Absolutely. I look forward to it. It’s always a lot of fun. Excellent. So that URL one more time in the money you can find little dribbling for me there as well as links to the shows and this podcast survey, which will help us out tremendously.

If you can take time to fill it out, I would estimate it would take two minutes, nothing. That’s a major commitment and a chance for you to let us know what you think of the show. And let us know something about you. All right. Let’s move on. We’ve got triple crown prep races to talk about JK. And I feel like the story of this past weekend, the sham and the mucho macho man is less about who did run well.

And more about who didn’t is that on charitable? It’s always interesting in these Derby preps, when odds on favorites get beat, you know that these [04:00:00] horses get a lot of attention. They usually have done something pretty impressive prior. And, and they show up here and they kind of throw these clunkers. It usually happens.

It seems like a lot in these early races with these horses that are coming in off of breaks. And you don’t know if they’ve kind of grown and matured. You just remember what you saw when they were to code of honor, obviously would be a good example of that Coliseum. Not so much. Uh, he’s the little bit more lightly raced, but, uh, it’s always interesting when one of those even money shot or odds on shot runs off, uh, yeah, there was, there was plenty of that going on.

Let’s start East and work our way West. We’ll talk about the mucho macho man. Be hosts gets the job done a one 15 time form USB figure, trophy chaser. One of our listener, Ryan Flanders, his favorite horses actually earns the higher time form figure with a one 17 for being on that pace. But, uh, like I said, maybe the story is more about.

Who didn’t run. And in this case, [04:01:00] it’s code of honor. I don’t have a Derby list, but had I had a Derby list, this is the horse who would have been a topic. I think coming into the season, though, I did, as I mentioned on the last show, have some reservations about the whole, will he won’t he run in the Remsen situation, um, where you watching live J K.

I wasn’t watching live. I think I was actually like getting there. I don’t know something I’m saying I need a, probably in between here. I actually missed that. I had to come back and watch the replay. Um, I was dead in, in, in the multi-racial bets that were happening there on the replay. He looks, he looks terrible.

He never looks like he’s even really in the race at all. I got bumped a little bit on the back stretch, but I don’t think it was an excuse from the runoff, the board, it was bad. It doesn’t feel like he’s the type that’s going to just like. Suddenly rebound and start running really well. But I guess if you had to pick one conditioner that could figure out what happened with a good horse and make him run well again, uh, you know, sugar is one of those guys, you know, maybe he gave him a little bit of time.

Maybe he didn’t have him fully cranked. We talked about that before, you know, this is [04:02:00] not, you know, it’s obviously not a Chaudes goal with code of honor is the, when the Mo mutual macho man. No, but this effort was too bad to put it down to a conditioning race. Don’t you agree? Not necessarily. I mean, You know, they might be trying to teach the horse to run a mile and a quarter.

And so they haven’t really, you know, now they’re running that sharp one turn mile and he’s off the brake and I kind of had him. I just, I agree with you, but I’m saying there’s still a little bit of hope. Uh, I won’t be betting the horse next time. Yeah. Yeah. You agree. But you disagree. It’s one of those, but the, the, but despite what you’re saying, you’re allowing room for the possibility that he improves, but you are taking a skeptical view with your money, which puts us in the same boat.

Really. Yeah, I’d love to bet the horse is six to one in his next start, but he’s still going to be three to one. And then, uh, you know, or five to two, depending on who shows up that’s, that’s not enough. That’s not enough value to try to figure out if he’s in a, but if he’s going to rebound from that poor effort, enough juice in the odds is likely to be on hand.

[04:03:00] I would agree with you there. And we’ll do a little bit more research. We’ll be talking more about him. And if there are any, uh, potential excuses that came up after the race that maybe we haven’t heard yet, we’ve heard an awful lot about the excuse of the big favorite out West, who didn’t fire talking of course, about Coliseum in the sham, the sham one by gunmetal gray.

Well, West point owned gunmetal gray. We mentioned before it will have Joe Migliori on a little bit later in the show to talk about him and some others, one Oh one the time form U S speed figure. So that will need to improve as the preps go on it also to be fair, should probably be pointed out that he was.

The beneficiary, it seemed of a, uh, of a pretty hot pace. He got a good trip, but, uh, certainly a horse to keep an eye on going forward. And we’ll see, we’ll definitely appear on more of these Derby lists than he has so far. For sure. For sure. Absolutely. And you [04:04:00] know, he’s, he’s always going to be, uh, over bet and we’ll, we’ll, we’ll talk a little bit about that later, later in the show, you’re going to ask Joe about that.

No. Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a phenomenon at the racetrack. I need to know a little bit more about it. He’s a good horse. And I thought he was gonna get a good setup that day. I’ve played the horse prior. Um, we had mentioned when we had Chris leek on Friday, we were talking about how Coliseum on paper looked like he laid over the field.

Um, but I expressed my concern about some of the mental issues that sometimes come with some of those tablets, especially the talented ones. And it seems like, uh, th th that, that probably is an issue. Baffert horses typically don’t have gait issues. He didn’t break well in that race. And it’s tough with a horse like him that is kind of head strong, like that.

That’s kind of the worst thing that can happen to a horse like that. Um, breaking poorly. Absolutely. Exactly. Yeah. Breaking poorly like that. And then just kind of having, not only are you trying to, it’s hard to wrangle those horses, energy and [04:05:00] enthusiasm. When they are in the clear traveling at a speed, they want to be traveling at it’s even more difficult when you pile them in behind horses while they’re getting kickback in, they’re going much slower than they’d like to be going.

And I think that that’s probably why he ran so bad. It was just everything that could’ve gone wrong. Went wrong. And, and, and I would expect there to be a better performance out of him and maybe he learned something from the rice. Interesting. So you’re taking a little bit more of a positive view, I think, than I am.

I just always have a question. Yes. Sometimes not braking is just bad luck. Just something went wrong. Other times it can be a sign of declining form as we’ve discussed, I guess, arrogant being the most recent example at the sort of end of what you might call his. Imperial period when he stopped getting away from there.

And, uh, it was a sign that all was not well. And I worry in such a professional outfit with a horse that had whatever it was, six gate works [04:06:00] prior to the w that the still having gate issues is some subtle way of saying. I’m not happy in a way where I don’t know that the potential is going to be delivered upon.

And again, all the attendant hype makes it feel unlikely that the value will be there next time. Obviously, by the time he shows up, we’ll know a lot more and can speak more intelligently about it. But is your gut just gut feeling? No. Don’t think about it too much to be pro or anti Coliseum when he returns to the races.

Pro, obviously with the workouts going in the right direction, he still seems to be progressing to your point that you made about the breaking and the declining form. You know, I think you actually might be one of the people that’s pointed that out to me now. I’m sure you got it from someone. And I think that that applies more.

Two older horses who, um, and especially older female horses as a real indicator of declining form. I try not to apply that to two year olds, [04:07:00] especially two year olds making like their second, third, first start. You know, he’s clearly got an excuse to, to, to be quote unquote, still learning. And, and I think maybe that’s probably what was going on with him.

He clearly has some things he has to clear up in between his ears. And, uh, I think if he can get that done, he’s shown some pretty, some pretty nice talent. And, uh, I’ll give him another shot for me. It’s about the barn in those instances, when I’m making those assessments, the super professional. Uh, drill the horses into being professional operations.

When I think of Baffert, I think of Todd Pletcher I’m I find it much harder to be forgiving in the more old school hands, old world approach. Shugg McGeehee we mentioned before. I’m more willing to put it down to. Okay. The horse is still developing. He’s letting the horse develop in their own time.

Baffert, it’s a little bit different to me because I just feel like there’s such an emphasis on this stuff. I [04:08:00] don’t feel like he lets a horse get away with being so immature at the racing stage. Anyway, we’ll see, it’s going to be interesting to see what, uh, what happens as far as that goes. Any other thoughts of horses you wanted to discuss JK coming out of these triple crown prep races.

Uh, no, nothing, nothing that really grabbed my attention. I mean, obviously trophy trophy chaser ran well, uh, one that you probably want to consider, uh, as he goes on, he had some really nice format, too. He ran well in that race time form us actually gave him a better figure than the winner. Based on the pace that, that he was kind of involved in.

So, you know, trophy chasers, one that if he, you know, at the next step up and added distance, if he can kind of get loose, there’s always seemed to be a horse down there that gets loose. And one of these races, uh, last year it was promises fulfilled who, who got loose on a day. And so do you keep an eye on him, but, uh, I don’t think he’s one that you want to, you know, fly [04:09:00] out to Vegas and put a future wager on.

That’s an interesting thing that you just mentioned. JK. Maybe we should do a second of buy sell hold. We’re going to look at the top five in the market. Best prices only here. JK. Just curious if anything jumps out at you one way or the other. Actually, I should probably hold your feet to the fire and make you answer the question.

Buy, sell, hold on these five, we’ll start with game winner available at nine to one in places. So I was even the best. Uh Baffert so I think you could actually probably sucker some people in, uh, with the two year old champion at nine to one. I think they might think they’re onto something there. Uh, I, I definitely would sell that one.

How about improbable at 12 to one? That’s our, our friends at Windstar, isn’t it? It is. I mean, I think he’s probably one of the Baffert, that’s better, um, than game winner, but I just don’t, I just can’t get excited about 12 to one on a horse, five months out. And it’s just tough at that price. [04:10:00] Yeah, I think I’d probably just try to make that 12 to one on improbable if I think he’s that good somewhere along the way in, in various pools.

But I don’t think I’ll do that. I think I’d think I’d just hold. Agreed. How about Instagram at 20 to one controversial training regimen? Presumably do back at the races soon. I would buy this one, but not for V you know, just more to be cheeky, just to say that I have it not so much as like a, this is a great wager.

Um, but I, I think there’s a little bit of value there. If you, if you runs off the train with a one Oh three buyer and his next start, he’s suddenly going to be, you know, first, second or third choice. All right. Very reasonable complexity. 25 to one. No, no one 25 to one. And what the, the H Allen Gerkin real quick.

Just what I mentioned Colosseum now, East to 33 and code of honor to 50 where you would either of those I’d probably pass on both, but code of honor is 50 is interesting. Right? If he comes [04:11:00] back and runs a good race, he suddenly thrust right back into the top five. I think there could be a little bit of value there if you.

If you’re, you know, you know, I’m an excuse, you, you, you heard him and excuse there’s some, uh, some, some post interviews that, that might be give you some hints as, as, as a reason that this horse could improve. Uh, but that’s probably the one I would want Coliseum still a little bit dicey those mental issues.

Seemed like a lot to overcome before the first Saturday in may doubt about it. All right. J K, I want to talk a little bit of tournaments. We haven’t done much if any tournament stuff on this show. I think I’m just going to start this off with an apology to my friend, Paul Sherman, who I have long described as, uh, the odds on favorite and all these other things talking about what heavy chalk he was to become the first ever two time winner of the NHC tour.

In an believable development. If you were writing a movie of horse players where like golfers [04:12:00] or pro football players or something, and we got movies made about us. If you wrote a movie about what’s happened on the NHC tour this year, to this point, it would be thrown out because nobody would believe it. A player has come out of retirement. Our old pal, Dave. Good. Goodfriend the artist formerly known as the Maven who had given up racing just started playing tournaments again in the second half of 2018 and has somehow reeled off. Something like five outright wins in a row. And is now in the lead on the NHC tour, heading into the final weekend, there is one event left.

I’m sure Paul will be playing it. Doesn’t look an easy task, but I think an outright win would get him back to the front. What do you make of this insanity? It’s uh, it’s definitely crazy. I, I thought Paul was the definite winner. And then I actually haven’t really been paying attention last week. I [04:13:00] was looking, I was going to play a, actually this weekend, I was going to play and the Santa Nita contest.

And I was curious just where I was on the tour. If I could get into the top 40, I wanted to kind of know what I needed and I saw Dave’s name on the, on the top. And I was like, what? And then I looked, he’s had like five wins or four wins since Thanksgiving. Um, it’s that? It’s it’s since Thanksgiving, I thought it went back a little.

We had two, he had two scores in the summer. In one of the summer, one in September, like July 28th and then in September, and then everything else has happened after Thanksgiving. That’s incredible. Well, whatever happens this weekend, we will be talking to the tour winner hopefully next week. We’ll see who that is.

I’m done jinxing people. So I’m making no predictions. HorsePlayers on Saturday. Uh, it’s a a hundred dollar, a hundred dollars entry fee, and they’re giving away five and eight C packages guaranteed. There’s I guess a caps at 600 people. So that’ll be fun to play along and watch along if you haven’t qualified yet.

[04:14:00] We’ve always talked about how, how the NHC is the HorsePlayers convention, that if you’ve never been to you’ll want to definitely add it to your, uh, to your yearly, to your yearly Trek. It’s it’s one of our favorites. We enjoy going out there and hanging out and just talking, talking, racing with a bunch of good handicapper.

So a good opportunity. This, this is actually the last opportunity. This is well not the last opportunity is technically there’s the last chance that takes place the week of at treasure Island, but the last, uh, way to the conventional way from, from your couch. To qualify that would be this weekend. That’s right.

I believe there is a contest at Tampa Bay as well, JK where folks can win their way in if they want to head out to Vegas. So many listeners have asked me this, I’m going to volunteer it here. My status for Vegas in doubt, there’s so much going on in my life and dealing with getting this new pod up and running as a viable business.

I’m going to make a run at seeing if this can be my job. And with all that in mind, I can’t really justify. Heading out there on my own dime this year. If I get [04:15:00] an opportunity to do some work and also then be able to partake in the fun, I think I will still give it a whirl, but it’s very, it’s all uncertain at the moment.

So, uh, for now I’m a pass. I do have a lot of fun at that event and do second everything you’re saying about how so many horse players go there once and they decide that they want to make it an annual event. Speaking of contest stuff, JK have had the results at Santa Anita on Saturday. Saturday and Sunday are, we’re a very podcast friendly results.

Uh, you mentioned Saturday with the one to finish of a Duke and Paul Matisse. Um, and, and, and I actually, I talked to Paul afterwards and, and I guess they, they ended up playing the same horse in the last race, which, uh, it was definitely a horse that. That made sense. From a mathematical standpoint, the horse was 12 to one, but on the information that they look at, that horse was an, I mean, I, when I saw they both won, I knew they both played the horse, uh, based off of, off of that.

And so that was great to, uh, to [04:16:00] see those guys run one, two, and then, and then our buddy and a guy that you coined in the TV show, the world, horse players toward TV show. Uh, the greatest live bank role player of all time. It’s definitely Garrett Skiva, Kara adding to his laurels with an outright win on Sunday, playing via remote from express bet into that Santa Anita tournament.

But very cool stories all weekend for those who don’t know what JK was talking about there, the Metasys have a proprietary database. Of handicapping information that they use. That’s what, that’s what you were getting at there, right? Yeah, absolutely. Paul and Duke have both talked about how they kind of have their own situation.

So it kind of causes them to end up on the same horse. You know, I don’t know a lot of people probably speculated about when they were both doing well at the NHC. They, they, you know, they were both hitting different horses. They just happen to have one cap horse in common. Which was, uh, which was a horse that made a lot of sense on their stuff.

Makes sense. Completely. All right. I think we’ve, uh, talked about everything on my [04:17:00] sheet here. J K, do you have anything else you want to get off your chest? You want to yap about before we head into our special guests today? Now I’m gonna do a little, this is kind of like, uh, like, uh, it’s, uh, it’s a hunting technique, you know, I grew up in Texas.

So you, you put a little bait out there and see if you can get a nibble. Um, I’m curious if, if Ryan Flanders, who famously ran second to me in the NAC tour, I’m curious. If, if he’s listening. And so I’m going to throw a little bait out there and see if I can get a text, an angry text from Ryan later this evening.

But when you mentioned Ryan Flander’s favorite horse was trophy chaser made a lot of sense. I thought you were referring to the fact that he was chasing the trophy in 2015 and ended up running second. Didn’t quite get there similar to a trophy chaser on Saturday. Let’s see if we can get, if we can get Ryan, if we can get Ryan fired up.

I would imagine, uh, an expletive or two will be texted to me this evening. If he sees this better that you do your trolling here JK than on Twitter. That’s all I’ll say. All right, enough [04:18:00] of that, we’re ready for our next segment. And now we’d like to welcome to the, in the money players podcast. Today’s special guest Joe Migliori Joe, how are you doing great guys.

How’s everything with you. Thanks for having me on. Things are excellent. Having a good time here in the Brooklyn bunker you’re in a little bit different of a location. Describe your surroundings at the moment. It might be a bunker as well, but, uh, I haven’t met the chemo in January sale. Uh, we are fortunate enough, uh, to be selling three Phillies that we raised under the West point, thoroughbreds colors, uh, as proven their prospects today, um, you know, being a racing partnership.

No, I need to the Phillies in particular that, you know, have some success, uh, some steaks success on the track, you know, they do, uh, and I have some residual value and, uh, looking to get the best return we can for our partners. So selling three different Phillies today, uh, best performance, uh, filly named boreal, and then I Philly named lavender Chrissy.

So, uh, fingers crossed that they do well in the Oxford. Excellent. You are a [04:19:00] partner representative for West point thoroughbreds. What does that job typically entail? I, I represent about, uh, I would say 125, uh, individuals that have bought shares into our horses to compete out on the racetrack. And, uh, you know, it’s not just about selling them shares.

It’s making sure that they have a good time at the races that they’re well taken care of. Uh, And, you know, really able to have the access that they, a hundred percent owner would have, whether they own five or 10% of an individual horse and, you know, meet a lot of really great people, make a lot of really great friendships and enjoy what we do out at the races with West point.

Yeah. Joe growing up around the racetrack, you know, w when did you kind of catch the bug? I know that you’ll, uh, uh, place a wager or two from now, every now and again, where did you kind of catch the bug on the gambling side of it? Obviously you were around the racetrack quite a bit growing up. Yeah. So, uh, I think I had the bug from as early as I can possibly remember.

Um, my mom would joke to you that I learned simple math from looking at [04:20:00] the tope board. Uh, you know, was probably the only three-year-old to sit there and go, Hey, five to two is two and a half to one. And, um, it was from a very early age. And I pretty much had no shot like solar from the wagering side of things.

So you can bank, uh, you know, I can blame mom and dad for that. They can blame the sport. Maybe in case you’ve been living under a rock for those who might not know. Uh, Joe, of course, Richard Bigley already saw the MIG was a guest on our podcast. Uh, one of the last podcast we did over on the other feed, but folks can still go and check that out in the DRF podcast feed, if they’re interests, it was great to, you know, I listened to that podcast that you guys did a, you know, with dad.

And I thought that was really good. I, you know, even whipped out a few stories, I hadn’t heard in a long time. So that was, uh, he was giving you guys some good stuff for sure that that hour. Joe. Are you ever, did you ever think about the writing path? You’re you seem a little too tall for that, [04:21:00] but I don’t know.

I was wondering if you ever, if you ever, uh, caught the bug in that direction. No, I absolutely up until about age 12, I would say the jockey dream was well alive. But then, uh, by the summer of my 13 year old year, uh, it was long over a very fast, I think I shot up about 10 inches in a summer or something crazy, you know, grew like a weed.

And, uh, it was funny because I was always. Begging dad to, you know, teach me how to ride a horse and, you know, teach me how to be a jockey. And then, you know, he’d let me hop on the aquacise or time and again, but, uh, it, it wasn’t until I was suddenly, you know, six foot one that he was like, yeah, sure. I’ll teach you everything about how to ride.

Emily was holding back on me a little bit. Uh, and I can understand why, you know, being a jockey is a very tough thing. Uh, I don’t think anybody wants their, their first child. To follow it. Now they’re very dangerous footsteps. So to say, clearly couldn’t get away from racing. I feel like I met you. Gosh, I don’t even [04:22:00] know how many years ago now when you were working in the Niara press office, how has your journey in racing professionally gone since that time to now where you’re working for West point.

Yeah, that’s actually really interesting. You bring that up. And I do remember those early days and, uh, you know, that was kinda my first real internship, uh, in any industry, uh, you know, any form of work, um, you know, I’d done some, some hot walking in some small, you know, hands-on things, uh, you know, before that, but that was kind of the first chance, uh, you know, to.

It’s a really work at the track and see what everything’s about. And it was a great place to be with the press office and the press box, you know, in the summers, uh, you know, in between school. Uh, and, uh, I think Dan silver was the, uh, director of communications there at the time and developed a really good relationship with him.

And. Uh, the rest of that is it’s been an incredible journey since then. Um, after I graduated college, I went abroad for a good while I went to Ireland, uh, and worked with horses there at the, uh, [04:23:00] Irish national stud and went to field study in Australia and, you know, worked with some stallions and bird Maris.

So, uh, it’s been quite the adventure and then was lucky enough to get an opportunity with West point, uh, to bring me back home to the States. And I’ve been with them for four years. Now, this is a. The start of my fifth year and the time has flown. I love what I’m doing. And, uh, it gives me an opportunity to travel a good bit.

And like I said, see a lot of people and have a good time at the races. Now, did you formally do the Darley flying start program or did you essentially make your own? I, I, I sort of mishmash in my own life doing it. I, I think I, you know, on my own terms, uh, you know, checked off, I think three of the four locations that they.

Uh, typically go to on their course, but, uh, you know, I did the Irish national stud breeding course, which is a shorter. Version a and you just remained in Ireland. That’s about six months. And then, uh, I, I had always thought about applying to the, to the darling for my start, but it was something that, uh, I think I just kept taking [04:24:00] what was next in store, uh, and got to a point where I felt like, okay, well I’ve already kind of done a lot of those things.

And, uh, like I said, I had a great opportunity with up with West point that I really couldn’t pass up. So, um, it just didn’t work out. You mentioned the, uh, the breeding program at the Irish national stud. How, how much of that information that you gathered in that, in that coursework? Um, that, that you apply to your, to your handicapping into your bed.

And when you’re looking at pedigrees and stuff like that, you know, I would think it would certainly help, uh, you know, Jonathan, when you have those European imports that are coming over, um, you know, and you’re able to kind of look at their pedigree and understand it a little bit more, uh, you know, the, than you would originally.

Uh, and I also think it gave me a lot of, you know, even though it was a breeding course, I did get a decent amount of exposure to the racing. Uh, over there and obviously, you know, uh, you know, after long days, you know, being able to watch European racing, uh, you know, for a consistent period of time, uh, and just pick up a familiar familiarity, you know, [04:25:00] at that time with some of the form lines of horses that were running and maybe coming over, but, you know, you’re able to kind of distinguish maybe who the classier.

Uh, Europeans might be, or, you know, the more well-bred ones at least. And, uh, I do think it’s an element in the toolbox that, uh, it gives us a slight leg up. I wouldn’t call it a major game changer or anything, but it definitely helps. I think that’s a great point. You make about the value you could get just from knowing which the most important races are.

Which the most important courses are, which the, which sires or female families have a history, you can get a lot of information. That’s just going to help you, especially at a meeting like the breeze cop, to understand where a horses place in the pecking order might be. You mentioned class is class something that you look at.

Regularly in your horseplaying in the United States? Uh, yeah, I think you have to, I think it’s [04:26:00] a big part of, uh, you know, understanding, you know, the, the shape of a race, uh, you know, dad from day one, you know, Pounded into my head that, you know, the pace of the race is going to be everything, but you also have to be able to recognize that, um, you know, okay, this horse is either dropping in class or this horse has been, you know, maybe running at a similar condition level, but running against much better horses.

Uh, in that similar type of race. And, uh, you have to recognize that maybe even though this horse might be out of form, okay, he’s been running against much tougher competition, and this is going to help, you know, this is the bunch he needed to find, you know, to kind of regain that form. Um, you know, so it it’s a major factor in my handicapping.

One of the other handicapping things I wanted to talk about with, uh, especially with West point is. I think one of the largest tote influencers, um, that doesn’t have to do with the racetrack is the Westpoint effect. Uh, yes. Yes. I I’ve. I’ve heard it’s it’s it’s a, you guys send out a bunch of workout videos.

You keep your [04:27:00] partners very informed. You let them know what a horse is in doing well. Uh, obviously you paid attention to the West point, uh, coat factor. What you think about those, uh, how influencing you guys can be on the odds? You know, it’s funny because it’s something we always get a kick out of that, uh, you know, at anytime we’re even the slightest bit excited about our chances, uh, and that board opens up, we all kind of, while we did it again and you know, our, our nice eight to one morning line suddenly opens that, uh, you know, seven to two or something like that.

And, uh, it, it happens without fail. It happens. I think even at times when we don’t necessarily think our chances are that strong. Very much a team culture and a team attitude that Terry and has developed over the 27 years of the company is that, you know, I might have a guy who owns 5% of, you know, one horse, but he looks out on the track and he sees those black and gold colors and he feels like that’s a part of his team.

That’s the team he’s rooting for anytime he sees them out on the field. So we [04:28:00] definitely have a lot of, uh, you know, uh, loyalty players. So to say that. No, no matter what spot we show up in, they’re going to put their money on. And, uh, it creates a, a fun atmosphere and people definitely, uh, you know, are encouraging of each other, whether they have.

You know, 10 shares with us or one share and it creates for, like you said, some, some massive underlays West runners at the end of the day, it is interesting. The branding aspect of horse racing, whether it’s people identifying with trainers more traditionally riders, I suppose, but also now. Uh, owners or ownership groups or potentially stallion farms.

There’s some untapped potential. I think in terms of racing’s being able to market these longstanding entities like West point now is Joe. I wanted to ask you about your own horseplaying wit where do you typically, uh, put your money through the windows? Do you have a favorite pools or bats [04:29:00] or tracks where you spend or, uh, Or do you sort of just play it by ear?

Well, I would say that I have some, you know, personal favorite pools that, uh, I find myself in quite often, but, uh, then, you know, as of last week, as I do every year, do you know, kind of a, an end of the year review of how you did and all those specific areas. And I think, uh, as much as I love. To play, pick five somebody, uh, if they were, you know, an accountant, it was auditing my place.

They would say, stop playing for fives. You’re horrible at them. Um, you know, and there’s definitely areas like maybe Exactive and doubles that, uh, you know, maybe I don’t get as much of a kick out of, but, uh, see some more success in. And, uh, I think one of my. 2019 resolutions is to try and, uh, you know, play a little bit more to my strengths, even though it’s very tempting at times, especially when you see that there’s a Lake carry over at the, at the, not at aqueduct on Thursday.

So, you know, we’ll, we’ll see, uh, you know, lair, [04:30:00] my money ends up. I, I enjoy the multi race stuff. Uh, I think it’s very exciting. Um, you know, but I think. The best strategy for me going forward is probably to stick to those, uh, you know, exact and double set and actually, you know, do fine as well on the, uh, the wind wagering side of things.

Sometimes it’s very good to just, I feel like if you’re ever in a rut just to simplify the game and you know, you’d like to source at 71, well, guess what? Just go get them to win. It’s very simple. It’s the old pick one. That, uh, we joke about in the, uh, in the book bedding with an edge that Mike Maloney used to tell his dad who was also attracted to the, the higher degree of difficulty, the more bud Maloney was attracted to the bet and Mike would, would enforce that idea.

And I think, yeah, he said a lot of sharp stuff there, Joe, as a horseplayer for one thing, just going through that act of reviewing your own plays is the kind of thing that’s going to make you a lot better. But also recognizing that degree of difficulty is a reel of the wager itself is a real [04:31:00] hurdle that HorsePlayers need to overcome.

And I’m not saying takeout isn’t important. It’s super duper important, but as a player, it’s not all about, Oh, let’s bet all the money. In the pool with the lower takeout. Sometimes it’s about let’s bet all the money in the pool where I have a better chance of caching and has a reasonable takeout. So very interesting and good, uh, and good observations as far as all that stuff goes.

Um, we got to talk to you about, uh, this past weekend and, uh, the success of gunmetal gray. How were the vibes, how were the vibes around this horse? Uh, it, it couldn’t be, uh, any higher at the moment. It was such an exciting race and, and a race that, you know, we were looking forward to, uh, with this horse, you know, that we had actually talked about potentially running him, uh, uh, in the grade one at Los Alamitos the name of the race, which may have at the moment.

Uh, but you know, had opted. To skip that race and just point for the sham instead. And it’s very rewarding [04:32:00] when, uh, you know, the horse goes out there and, and, you know, basically affirms that you made the right call. Um, it’s also very exciting when you know the odds on favorite. Uh, doesn’t exactly break very well.

And, and. You know, I have a much better ratio, I think, you know, going into the first store and then you maybe originally would’ve thought you have, um, it’s the Derby is, is everything from us on the partnership side of things. It’s, you know, if I’m calling a potential new investors, I would say nine out of 10 times, you know, that potential new investor talks about, you know, history and being the Kentucky Derby and, you know, Uh, as hard a place that is to reach, um, you know, we’re out here providing, you know, we’re, we’re trying to make people’s dreams come true.

Uh, when we can get a horse like gunmetal gray to, you know, get 10 Derby points. I know it is January. I know it is early, but. Uh, it’s a lot of fun for all of us to, to be able to pull up that Derby point standing and see him fourth on the list. We’re all about dreaming and, uh, it will continue [04:33:00] to dream going somewhere with this horse.

Great. What’s what’s the story with him, you know, as he was, he bought at a two-year-old sale, a yearling sale, how many partners? I mean, whatever you can share with us about just to kind of let people know how the process worked from kind of from start to this point where you’re winning Derby preps. Yeah, absolutely.

So, yeah, I I’d say we have a very heavy presence at the two year old in training sales. Um, you know, we probably by about 30 horses a year and I would say maybe a, you know, 20 of them are settled, maybe, you know, 15 to 20 of them come from those two year old and training sales. Uh, I think people, uh, they enjoy buying into a horse, you know, in the spring time, uh, with the potential that that horse could run and say Del Mar Saratoga in the summer, uh, you know, it’s not as much of a daunting weight maybe as.

Uh, when we go to the yearling sales and they’re buy horses. So no gunmetal gray was a lot of the OBS March sale. I think it was for 225 or 230, 5,000. So he was a fairly substantial purchase for us, uh, you know, a cult by exchange rate. Uh, and you know, that’s a stallion older stallion that had a lot of, [04:34:00] you know, has had a lot of success, but you know, maybe not necessarily one you think would, uh, you know, light up the board and the auction ring as much.

So if we did pay. Uh, based on the stallion and, you know, his pedigree, quite a, quite a good sum of money, uh, you know, for him, uh, he was a car we absolutely loved and, and, uh, you know, The classic cliche checked all the boxes for us, but, uh, at the sale, Jerry Hollendorfer, you know, like the, uh, quite a bit as well, uh, you know, and when we had bought him, you know, he definitely wants to be a part of, uh, of that partnership and also have the opportunity to train the horse.

So, you know, Jerry’s also involved in the ownership group and he’s done an outstanding job with this call, uh, and really thought that, you know, was telling us that he had talent from, you know, long before his debut. Uh, and in his debut, he actually ran into a, that was the same race Roadster. Debuted. And at the time, you know, that was the big Baffert horse that, you know, everybody was talking about as, you know, the next trial.

Um, you know, he ran admirably that day. Um, you know, [04:35:00] got a very good experience. It was sprinting, I think it was going six furlongs. He ended up finishing fifth, you know, maybe beaten eight or nine lengths. Uh, but then in his next start going to terms at Damar really popped and, and, uh, uh, won impressively, um, and got a big number.

So, you know, that kind of kicked off his journey and. Uh, he’s just been a consistent, you know, sound horse, uh, every step of the way. And, uh, he’s starting to really reward, uh, you know, our patients with Joe. I know you’ve got to go. You’ve got work to do out there, but just wanted to thank you one more time for coming on the show today and we hope to talk to you again soon.

Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me guys. And, uh, we’ll talk again soon. I’m sure. I’ll see you at the races at some point. This winter. And that’s going to do it for this episode of the, in the money players podcast. I want to thank Joe Migliore one more time. Want to thank JK for taking time out of his busy day, DJ unstable with some behind the scenes support as per usual.

Most of [04:36:00] all though, I want to thank all of you for listening. I want to remind you one more time about this survey. I want you to help us out and take this survey. Very simple. 10 questions. It will not take very long. You can find the link on my Twitter at looms boldly or over at the main podcast page, which is in the money

And you know what? Go ahead. And if you really want to help us out subscribe to the blog as well, then you’ll get an email. Every time I post something or a new show goes up, we’d appreciate it very, very much. That’s it for now. We’ll be back on Friday. Rumor has it that Sean  of WinStar will be returning to the pod on Friday.

He’s always a lot of fun. We will see you then I’m Peter Thomas foreign Itau. May you win all your photos? [04:37:00]

 Your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello, welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is show number four. It is, I don’t even know what day it is. It’s January 4th, 2019. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign Italian. Back with you still at the little house on the East side, in Saratoga, up here for those fun first night activities, a parent off [04:38:00] from school all week.

So we’ve been hanging up here, been spending a lot of time at a pretty terrific. Bar, I don’t think I’ve ever talked about it on the show. It’s sort of a bar slash bottle shop called pint sized up on Broadway. Been having a lot of fun in there with the Zach and Augie and the crew definitely worth the visit.

We’ll be talking more about pint size when we revisit our Saratoga lifestyle show. Little later in this show, I may try to catch up with a quick lifestyle question that was hit. To us during our transitional phase, um, about Santa Anita. So look forward to that. We also are going to have a very special guest.

Second half of this episode, first ever guest on the, in the money players podcast will be Chris. Felica the bear from college game day. And looking forward to that, but before we get to any of that, let’s bring in the co-host of this program. I think since our friendship sort of officially began at [04:39:00] the Belmont stakes, and gosh, I don’t even remember what year now, 2014 maybe.

Um, I haven’t gone this long without speaking to the man due to both of our crazy travel situations and everything going on in the world. You know him, you love him. He’s the people’s champion. You may not know this about him. When he attended the university of Texas deemed too small to play on the football team, but he was given the awesome responsibility of taking care of Bebo the Longhorn mascot.

And we’ll just have to ask him if he ever got so wild as he did the other night, I’m talking of course, about Jonathan kitchen, JK. What’s up. Cheers mate. Cheers. No, he Bebo is a, uh, he’s a sneaky guy. I’ve never seen him act like that before four though. He’s typically pretty calm. Um, and I think he’s, and he’s always calm from what I’ve always known to be, uh, uh, some assisting [04:40:00] performance enhancing materials, if you know what I mean?

Interesting to mellow him out. Yeah. Just to chill him out. I mean, there’s like we have a cannon that goes off at the Texas games every time there’s a touchdown. Or the end of a quarter. So it sneaks up on you like an actual can and they shoot off. So, and he’s like kind of by the Canon. So the idea that he wouldn’t be at least somewhat chilled out, um, being in a stadium full of a hundred thousand people with.

Walkers by and cheerleaders and, and, you know, and cheers and boos and all kinds of stuff. Uh, I guess they didn’t give him the full dose last time when, uh, when OCGA came swinging by he, he got a little bit, a little bit chippy. He set the tone, though. I will say that he set the tone. I was going to give you a few minutes to Crow about your team’s performance, sort of hearkening back to the other podcast that we used to do a about sports.

Well, here’s the thing we can talk about this. We have had many debates at a dinner situation, especially sitting around sports fans and [04:41:00] gamblers. Uh, there are certain times zones that are good for certain things. I’m a big fan of the Pacific time zone with the Gulf stream, starting at nine aqueduct starting nine 30.

Um, uh, you know, the sporting events football comes on at 10, Monday night. Football does not a fit interfere with, with like evening plans. The East coast, not nearly as big of a fan of games, starting at 9:00 PM, things like that. But boy, I’ll tell you what, when you’re in London. And, and, and your football team plays at one 45 in the morning.

There’s not a whole lot. You can do well. It’s funny. You should mention it. I’m sure folks can remember the longtime listeners back in 2015 on the Mets. Great run. I was getting up. I would go to sleep and I would just get up in the middle of the night and watch the game and then go back to sleep for a few hours.

It’s it’s really tricky. Uh, let’s talk about London for a minute. JK, did you have a good trip over there? Did you end up getting to any, uh, proper football? Did you end up getting to any racing? [04:42:00] Watch the little bit of a football game on Sunday morning and, uh, just a random pub. Um, but no, I didn’t, I didn’t get to any games.

The closest racing thing I did, which was, which was actually great was I went to a dinner with Nick luck. Oh, fantastic. Which is always fun. I find Nick to be one of the greatest presenters in our sport, uh, over there and over here, I just think he’s, he does a phenomenal job. He’s super fun to hang out with fun, to listen, to tells great stories.

And so, uh, it was fun to hang out with him that evening. Um, so just had dinner and that was the, that was the most racing thing I ever did. The other most racing thing I did was I walked into a bet shop. And I bet 50 pounds on a one to two shot and I put up, I won and I left. I made one horse racing wager while I was there.

And it was, uh, it was, uh, it was a winner, not too bad, not too bad. My friend a good, good get the money, get the money off those guys. It’s always good. When you can do that. Great to hear that, uh, Nick [04:43:00] is in fine fettle and I just second that idea, definitely one of my. Honestly, broadcasting people that I just look up to so much.

I think the way that he blends the professionalism, the, uh, serious side of things, as well as having a sense of humor and making it fun and talking about gambling, it’s all, all good stuff, uh, that he brings to the table. And, uh, I’m envious about that one. How was the MK show? New year’s Eve? Fun as well. We, uh, we, we, um, we got there a little bit early.

I got to check out the facility. It’s like an old called print works is the name of the place that it was at. And it’s kind of like this old, um, like warehouse situation. So it’s kinda like, uh, you know, real, proper raves setting. And so we, uh, we hung out, we went out, he did his show, he had pyrotechnics on the stage.

So usually it’s kind of fun. You can get on the stage and like really look out to the crowd and see like, His view, but [04:44:00] when he had pyrotechnics, obviously he couldn’t, uh, the show is successful. He got out of there quickly made his private jet to go to Manchester. Um, and, uh, we just, we hung around yeah.

The city for a little bit longer, but they closed. Uber was shut down. Um, new year’s Eve night, they like closed it. Like Uber was like, sorry, we’re not doing Uber right now. That’s what the app said because they closed some roads. So we took the train. Uh, like some proper, proper Londoners and, and we, we made it, made it back to shortage.

Oh, you were staying out in shortage. Good call. Good call. Is that where your bro stays? He usually stays out there. He happened to be staying closer to the water. He stayed in like the Mondrian. Um, I don’t know if you had been there, but, uh, he stats where he stayed, I guess it was closer to the venues.

Right? I know it only by reputation, but lots of cool stuff going on out in East London w uh, The, our UK users know this already. I don’t know. What’s changed with Uber in London when I was there in 2015, it was great on subsequent trips. [04:45:00] Almost unusable, just really unreliable  seems like it’s more expensive.

I’ve just had a lot of problems. The tube is so great during running hours. You’ll you’ll have no problem there. It’s certain lines shut down at a certain point. So I’m glad you didn’t get skunked on that front, but anyway, just my 2 cents about London transport. I’m glad you had a good time. Let’s get to this listener question, J K, that I neglected and I’m going to go against something.

I once said on the other show that we were going to keep lifestyle stuff compartmentalized, because it was the kind of thing where we do the lifestyle shows and we would have some people telling us it was the greatest thing they’d ever heard and other people, uh, Uh, deriding it and the saying it was fluffing, this and that, but this is just one question.

Um, somebody was looking for stuff to see and do around Santa Anita. I’ll let you go first. What are some of your favorite places to stay things to see and do well you’re you’re right down the street from Pasadena. So getting over to Pasadena and just kind [04:46:00] of. Taking in Pasadena and whichever, whatever it is that you like to do, they probably have a pretty good version of it in Pasadena.

So getting over to Pasadena is fun. Um, uh, obviously we, we talk them about, uh, our love for dim din Tai Fung. Uh, the dumpling shop that’s in the mall, across the street from St. I needed. There’s also like. An original one. I don’t know exactly where it’s at, but it’s around our Katy quick Google. We’ll sort that out.

Um, uh, there’s an Italian restaurant that seems to always have at least one racing personality in it that I’ve been called Nikki seas. Um, that’s not too far away. And then obviously the Derby restaurant, uh, is one that if as a racing fan, you should probably try to get over to, um, it’s it’s, uh, it’s, it’s got just a bunch of memorabilia all over the place.

You’ll usually run into other racing personality types in there. So that’s always cool. And for the, uh, for the, for the, for the real thrill seekers out there, [04:47:00] Uh, you don’t even know what I’m going to say, but you’re gonna laugh when I say it. I check out the drink, the drinkers all effects. Oh God. The drinkers hall of fame.

That is a truly terrifying establishment where I don’t know if they’ve been grandfathered in somehow or if they just scoff at the law, but a bar where they’re still smoking at it. It’s like a time machine folks. Yeah, it’s a tough place. It’s a, it’s definitely for me, like someone who cannot stay in cigarette smoke, it’s like a, it’s like a, like an in and out move.

Like just go in there, have a sip of your beer and then just say you did it. And then, and then add on down the street. A quick shot maybe might be, uh, might be a good way to do it. Um, I’m going to try to find the name of this brewery that is not far from Santa Anita, that I really liked. It is called outro lodge brewing.

This was really cool. They made some neat beer, some interesting sour stuff, some interesting hoppy [04:48:00] stuff, more the hoppy stuff. If I’m remembering right, was more in like the East coast, new England type style, but worth the visit. Pasadena has a lot of good beer things. I think you nailed our favorites, JK.

I mean, those seem to be the places we returned to. Um, over and over again, in terms of staying, if I’m on the budget, it will typically be one of those small places in Arcadia near the track. If money is no object and you’re doing a Santa Anita trip, go to the Langham, that is a spectacular hotel parents showing her fine taste informed me that she wanted to live there after a few days of staying at the Langham.

You remember, we did less listeners may remember. That we did the shows from the phone booth, the old phone booth when we were out there for some world HorsePlayers tour, uh, official business. It’s, uh, it’s really cool. Any other advice about where to stay or what to do when you’re out there? Well, you know, there’s another [04:49:00] thing that I’ve kind of come up with, um, as of late.

And I don’t know if we’ve even really talked about it before, but I discovered it. Uh, my last trip, the Ontario airport is like 15 minutes from Santa Anita. It’s not far at all. And although it probably limits your ability to, for like a direct flight, like you could from lax, from, from bigger airports, obviously the New York airport, Chicago, so on and so forth.

I would imagine that a direct flight to Ontario is probably harder to come by, but if you can get into Ontario and out of Ontario, it is significantly easier. Lax. Is an absolute disaster. Yeah, it just is. I mean that, the hardest part of lax is from Santa Anita. It’s about a 55 minute Uber ride, almost an hour Uber ride, but here’s the crazy part.

You get to lax with like 40 minutes, but if it takes 20 minutes to get just around that U shaped situation where your, the terminal drop-offs are, because it’s just so [04:50:00] congested. And so if you can get in and out of Ontario, Yeah, it’s definitely worth it. I don’t know who flies in and out of Ontario, but Burbank is similar.

Burbank’s a little toy airport. The flight times aren’t super convenient from New York, but you can make them work for you, especially if you don’t mind a red eye, but I would say. If your gun, if you’re forced to do lax, pick a wise guy, time to fly, you do not want to be dealing with rush hour situation going from Pasadena area Arcadia area, um, out to, out to lax.

So fly the wise guy time. Or, uh, go ahead and explore one of those other options. I think we covered that pretty well for a few quick minutes. If the listener who asked that question, has any followups hit us up on Twitter? Maybe we can give you more specifics of what you’re looking for, whether it’s a dining recommendation, hotels, whatever.

Sometimes the more info you give us the better info we can give you. And that goes for all manner. [04:51:00] Of questions on the podcast. We still have a couple of minutes JK before we bring in Chris Felica anything else you’ve been paying attention to jonesing to talk about in the world of racing? Nothing that comes to mind.

I hadn’t, uh, I hadn’t really, um, been plugged in. I did listen to two, uh, Baffert on BIC where he, he had mentioned that the plan that they’re looking pretty heavily, it seemed McKinsey run, uh, and the Pegasus. And he also kind of addressed the question that someone else had mentioned or the, the, the thesis that I’ve heard.

Other people come up with that. That, uh, that McKinsey was, is a one turn type of horse. And he’s going to Excel at that distance and not long, or, and Baffert kind of scoffed at the idea and suggested that that the longer he’ll run, if he’s right, he’ll run all day, he just has to be right. And, uh, he just didn’t feel like he had a right for the breeders’ cup classic.

And that’s very much in line with what you had been [04:52:00] suggesting JK. So I’m sure those words were near and dear to your heart. We encourage our friends of course, to listen to that original interview, which you can all each hour of Steve’s broadcast. He does three hours a day, Monday through Friday, and they’re all available in cast form.

And as I’ve said many times and continue to believe there is no better, faster way to, uh, you become a racing insider than to listen to Steve. Not only. Is the content great. But folks, because of how long he’s been in the game, how respected he is the fact that he’s a horseman himself, a better himself.

People talk to him in ways they don’t talk to other people and you can get some very Frank and interesting assessments. So check out that Baffert interview and everything All right now, it’s time. We’re going to bring in our first ever guest on the, in the money players podcast, you know him from ESPN college game day, you know him from horse racing tournaments, such as the NHC, which he seems to qualify for every year.

He’s [04:53:00] Chris . Chris, how are you? My friend. I’m doing well. So I guess I’d go down and what the Guinness book of world records, I was the, uh, the answer to the first ever guest on this, uh, illustrious podcast. It’s an honor. Good, good, good talking to you guys. It’s been a while. That’s awesome. We have to start right in your wheelhouse, Chris, with talking about this game Monday night, you will be, uh, on hand, you will be working on TV.

Uh, what are your thoughts about this championship football game? I keep going back and forth on ultimately, uh, w w what way to land, but I can’t wait for Monday night. It’s the two best programs in the country that have been the two best programs in the country for the last five years or so you, you, you, you look at the two teams combined.

I think they’re like 109 and seven over the last four years. So, uh, People can complain about this alleged fatigue between Alabama and Clemson. But, uh, I look at it on the other hand, these are two great [04:54:00] dominant teams and people love to hate the sec. And people love to hate Nick Saban in Alabama. Uh, but you got two quarterbacks who are.

Like top five NFL type, future draft pick type guys, tons of skill all over the field. And if you look at the, the landscape this year, the list of teams that can beat Alabama, uh, is short it’s Clemson and it’s Georgia. And if you look at Clemson this year, they possessed a quarterback and Trevor Lawrence, unlike Kelly Bryant last year.

He’s got weapons all over the field. He can throw, we saw what the Sean Watson did to Alabama and 15 and 16. I think Clemson has a great chance on Monday night to win because of that offensive skill, I would expect it another relatively high scoring game, just because I think both quarterbacks are going to get favorable, match up with the opposing secondary.

Uh, is good as both teams are. That seems to be the [04:55:00] one area where both teams are a little weak and susceptible to some big plays. But, uh, as we sit here right now, if I had to make a call on the game, I, I think I will take Clemson because Dabo Swinney is teams put, played so well. Uh, in the underdog role, he’s played up all year.

This whole we’re on the rest of y’all bus. He does, he does an unbelievable job and just like. Getting his team to buy into this role as an underdog, even though talent wise, they don’t take a back seat to any what’s the I’ll I’ll take Clemson plus the points here. All right. And do you have a little bit of a lean to the over, am I hearing there as well?

Or do you feel like the market has that about right? Yeah, I think it’s about right or 59, but, but I, I think it’s, uh, It, it it’s just a 30, I think both teams get into the thirties. I think it’s a pretty high scoring game because I do think, uh, with the way that both teams play defense, like I said, you’re not going to get, I don’t think a ton of long sustained drives in the game.

[04:56:00] I think you’re going to get a lot of long touchdowns authentically. So we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see if double, but I could see a, a 34 31 type games somewhere in that range. Jake. Hey, I got to let you push back on our, uh, on the other podcast. When we talked about this game, you were all about Alabama. Do you still feel that way as the day approaches?

Um, I do, obviously Clemson is, is, uh, like Chris mentioned, they are, in my opinion, probably one of the only teams that can beat Alabama when Alabama shows up to play. I just, man, the guy scares me. He has got like red on Nick Saban does some of the most things with football teams and just stories I’ve heard of about Nick and, and how, uh, how focused his team can be and just, you know, there’ll be a 30 and he’s still ripping into people because that’s just the kind of coach he is.

He demands that perfection. And I think that games like this. Is what that, that program was built upon. It’s built upon making the right decisions when the [04:57:00] emotions are high, uh, not, you know, just doing your job, not trying to do too much and just playing within the system. And I think that the entire years, and, and are always built up to these types of championship games and they always seem to play well.

And a majority of these games, obviously they haven’t played well in all of them. So, uh, I just continue. It’s kind of like the drew Brees, Aaron Rogers. Tom Brady thing. I can’t bet against those guys. I can’t bet against nix. Amen. I’m glad you brought up the whole making right decisions because I think a lot of times Nick Saban goes underappreciated as, as a head coach in college football because everyone just assumes, Oh, he’s got the best players.

Don’t win all the time. He can just send them out on the field or not. But if you look at 2015, The call the onside kick call on the fourth quarter, when she knew he wasn’t stopped with the Sean Watson, he knew if he gave him the ball back, they were going to light back down the field of schooling. They, the guts to call that onside kick, get it completely turned the game around.

And then last year, To talk about [04:58:00] Lois hadn’t played very much all season long. He knew Jalen hurts. Couldn’t throw the ball. The only chance they had was to come back and to come back in that game was to bring him to, uh, to throw the ball three touchdowns in the second half and overtime. And the of, so any questions about Nick Saban and game plan and strategy and decision-making Oh, he just he’s good because he’s just proven that.

Over the last couple of years, let me bring it back to racing. You talk about Saban and the different clubs he has in his bag in terms of his ability to motivate his intensity, his, uh, his strategy game theory, whatever you want to call it. Is there a horse racing equivalent JK? Is there somebody you, you think of, uh, in, in similar terms, I mean, I think that the person that initially pops into your mind is Chad Brown, obviously, because he kind of has that, that, uh, kind of rough around the edges personality.

Maybe not, doesn’t seem like he’s the most approachable. Um, [04:59:00] but I would go more towards Todd and the ability to kind of see the big picture and to have all of the little pieces in line and to make sure that all of his. Players are going in the right direction and in the right spots and doing the right things and making the right decisions.

Um, the only problem is I think Todd’s got a little bit more of an approachable personality than, than a Nick Saven would have, but I would, I would probably go with one of those two guys as who’s the most similar he’s definitely got the more of the CEO vibe. Todd Todd Pletcher, uh, than, uh, than what you’re describing.

But I think those are both logical ways to go. Chris, I want to ask you a general racing question. What role does horse racing play in your life? Uh, at this point right now is a good time of the year for me, because we’re starting to really be able to devote. Um, more time to, to handicapping and racing. Uh, typically they’re the meats that I had the most success at, uh, during the year are the Gulfstream meat and the Santa Nita winter meats because [05:00:00] of a majority of turf racing in the two year old, just really popping up.

Uh, the, the, this is I love Saratoga and I love Delmore. But in terms of what I think my return on investment, uh, the pick five potentials at Gulf stream, uh, you can find a lot of bad favorites and, and a lot of overlays, even with the computer guys coming in late to, and the post ruts to pound those numbers down.

A lot of times, I think you’ll find some of those price Wars is that, uh, play a lot better. In the race exotic. So this is a time of year, not only would those two tracks and then of course, uh, NHC coming up, I get really excited because I know my football responsibilities are about to completely stop.

I’ll have some college hoops and some golf or things like that, but nowhere near the amount of time and dedication that in a travel that a college football has. So this, this is when I really start to, uh, uh, be I’m allowed to, uh, enjoy and really handicap a lot more than I have been able to do over the last couple of months.

[05:01:00] Chris, you mentioned your, your college law responsibilities. Um, I think that, you know, for, for horse racing, we were always trying to figure out what that magic a magic sauce is to kind of help our sport along. You’re obviously part of, of, you know, arguably the biggest sport in America. Obviously the NFL has a big part of that, but college football would be right there, I think.

And, and obviously being a part of the most popular college football broadcast in college game day. What, what is it that you think. And, and, and a couple of ideas that you think that that racing could, could do to kind of take from football or take from college football to kind of improve its product and to make it more available to the, to the, to the college football better, the NFL better.

I think in terms of the popularity of the sport and selling the sport to appeal to more, uh, just common, common folk, common Betterly I think what we’ve seen in the last few years with the success on the, the, the triple crown trail is something that people have. Take note when, when it, when it’s [05:02:00] a big event, uh, I think you’re going to get more of the casual viewers in there, but I think in terms of bedding and handicapping, I’ve noticed in terms, I mean, just look at the menu on a regular sports when you have.

All of these prompt bets, all of these hit the head batch ups. I think that’s something even within a little races that look, I mean, you and I, and Pete both know we’re ready to read in between the lights and the racing form or the time form or the rags or whatever. Uh, it takes a long time to be able to master that.

But if you could, if you want to ask a common, just to pick. Joe off the street or if I want to, Hey, tell my wife, Hey, who do you like between these two horses hit the head prop bets within single races. That’s something I think which could just mean it’s maybe not long-term is something that the industry is going to survive on that, but to get people interested, but just that here are two horses.

Who do you think is going to finish in front of the other? Run a race. [05:03:00] That’s something pretty elementary and pretty basic, but I think somewhat to go out to the track on a given date, eat your out. Giving people a chance to have a way in and being able to price it correctly, I think could be a huge marketing boon to the sport.

How about in terms of your handicapping, Chris? How similar is the way you look at a game to the way you look at a race? I think it’s more similar than, than I would like to believe anyone who knows and works in my pod and reads me to my colleague, Steve, they know I tend to be more of a contrarion type and, uh, I like underdogs and I think it’s the same way.

In my handicapping for horse racing, I will look for overlays. I will look to try and beat, uh, bad favorites. And it, that I think are way too short. Uh, I will look to be horses that seem to be like the, [05:04:00] the, the public train, the steam horses I’ll want off of anyone that gets hammered down. And, and I don’t see the value there.

So yeah. It’s a lot. It’s a lot more similar, uh, that, uh, that I, I think if people, other than you guys asked me about that, what do you look for in handicapping? I think that I could try and draw some parallels and say, we just talked about trying to attract more people, uh, in terms of sports, Andy copper is, Hey, the way you handicap games apply those theories to worth racing.

I think you probably do pretty well. Chris what’s your workflow? What, what, uh, what products do you feel like you, you kind of have to have when you want to sit down, uh, say when those first PPS come out for the NHC and you start diving in, uh what’s, you know, what’s some of your you’re handicapping, a workflow that you kind of go through, it’s a normal kind of process for you when you’re looking at the races.

I’m a dinosaur I’m pretty old school. I don’t want to overload my mind with too many different [05:05:00] mediums out there in terms of ways to handicap races. Uh, I’m an old school daily racing forum guy, uh, and not only formulator I’ll I’ll fool around with, but just give me the traditional classic PPS. Uh, I’ll look at some work.

I’ll I’ll, I’ll do some reading, but. I don’t want to overload my mind. And I’ll, I’ll, I’ll just, I’ll break down the, the, the races race by race, in a traditional type fashion. And I’ll, I’ve got some angles that I like, and I’ll look to see if I can find some of those angles within races, whether it’s. Uh, meetings a second time out or a second time versus winners.

Uh, horses may have been compromised and split rates from drawing the rail, uh, in their previous races. Uh, speed stretching out on the turf. I mean, those, those are. 10 tend to be things that spread through his attempt to be even tight waters that maybe you’re going long. We thought though those are some things that I look for, [05:06:00] uh, with within races and it’s always good.

And then you apply it to what we’ll get out on counter, uh, next month at the NHC. It’s real. I think you really need to try and at least what I do. I will focus on the tracks that I play regularly. Uh, you know, and then those mandatories I’ll break down, but I just like it. And especially in a big handicap, in a tournament site type setting like that.

I don’t want to overextend myself. I want to focus on what I know and try and take the most advantage of what I know. Great advice in your previous answer, you hinted at something we’ve talked about before, which I want you to expand upon for some listeners who may not have read those columns from, from a little while back.

And it’s this taking this idea of public teams and applying it to horse racing. Uh, give us a little bit on that. No. I think if you looking in terms of like sports handicapping [05:07:00] it’s readily available, would you, there are sites out there where you could find a percentage and you can shoot William Hill and other casinos put out sheets and app all over again.

Information out there in terms of all the, all the money and the amount of tickets that are on certain teams. And any example from this weekend did the two biggest games on new year’s day were on the public, were Ohio state and Penn state Penn state lost the game on the field and Ohio state was a complete.

Yeah, they should have covered eight, like 28, three, but somehow Washington got back in the game. It just it’s so strange. How more often than not these teams, especially favorites. Uh, they get that heavy. Actually. I shouldn’t say this. They were, uh, some of these trendy underdogs in, in bowl season, hyper tendency to, to not farewell, even in a regular season.

If you, if you watch and look at the, look at the money and look, look at the ticket, count more on Portland, but all these tickets and all these small bets that [05:08:00] around these, these really public trendy teams and go against them, that’s the way to go. And it’s the same way. If you’re, if you’re breaking down a race.

And you see, Oh my goodness. They tend to want them in source. How is that possible? And then first click to see the horses 72. You’re like, all right, well, that’s going to be an underlay and everybody’s seeing what I’m seeing. So it’s one of those things that has a tendency to look too good to be true. And if that’s a clear signal to me that.

You know what, it’s a little bit too obvious. I’m not getting the value on that horse that I want. Let me try and find someone, uh, that, that is more value than that. And more often than not the horse that you initially like won’t win and maybe you won’t land on the right horse, but I think you’re giving yourself a better chance of going in a different direction.

Let’s take a look at some races coming up on Saturday, starting at Gulf stream park. Let’s start off with race. Number two, then [05:09:00] at Gulf stream, we’ve got a three-year-old steak. Chris, let’s start with you. I think combination is a horse in here through the rail in the, in the Buffalo man. Last out it is a set in second start against winners.

Ran, ran 20 well respectable third, uh, I, I liked the, I liked him in here. I know it’s dangerous to, uh, to go against the, the always seemingly hot Jason service barn. But, uh, I think the combination and here it gets the, uh, the jump on final jeopardy and, uh, at what, not four to one in the morning line for drawers.

So, you know, that’s, I think you’re probably going to get a price just around that because there are a lot of horses in these field that seem to be within that five, two to four to one range. So I think the odds will be true and I like combination. J K. Yeah. Chris mentioned the Jason service thought. I, I wanted to try to beat final jeopardy and then I looked around, I saw there’s a lot of pace in the race.

Uh, final jeopardy kind of took back in a six for a long race and [05:10:00] made that big run. Obviously I think that, that they’ll get the pace set up needs here. I would look at time for U S or the preview screen and notice that final jeopardy had the best late pace figure, which I was looking for. Looking for this race to kind of fall apart a little bit.

Some of these young horses. Uh, with a lot of, uh, like I said, a lot of pace involved with seismic Joel, uh, the horse from parks on the outside. So I thought it might fall apart in that, you know, expected the Jason service, uh, final jeopardy, which is, would continue to improve second time out. And so I thought it was pretty simple to have the land on it.

All right. Let’s move on to the fifth race. We take it to the turf. Uh, once again, looking at three-year-olds favor it here is pivot Tina for Graham motion at two to one, which way are you looking JK? Well, it says a lot about, uh, about, you know, what kind of horse pivot Tina is that, that motion put the horse on the plane and flew them out to, uh, to Del Mar flew her out, excuse me, to Del Mar.

And, and she ran well enough that day. Uh, didn’t break all that. Well, came [05:11:00] running late. I thought that just from a class standpoint, she kind of, uh, was, was, was one that I thought would be tough. For these, if it wasn’t going to be her, I thought the two Cassie horses made a little bit of sense, uh, with what a Butte and fortunate gal, uh, both of them ran well, uh, obviously on, in, on their last two races.

So I thought those made a little bit of sense, but I felt like the motion horse was going to be pretty easy in this one. Chris, what’s your view? Yeah, like Jason said to me, uh, And in the previous racing, it looks like there should be a good bit of a pace up here. I’m going to try and beat pivoting. I mean, motions Bard is an ice cold, uh, to start the Gulf stream meats.

So until he starts heating up, uh, I think in a short price, I’ll play against a pivot team. And what JK said about fortunate girl, I think she definitely figures in this race. Uh, cutting back just a little bit. Uh, backed up, uh, on, on the front end in her, uh, first start against where’s the big she [05:12:00] figures.

And I think red rounders figures as well, a horse that kind of got stuck down on the inside and her, uh, first go around Gulf stream. It’ll at a mile as well in that same race. Uh, I I’ve been on the cutback with w Tyler for Mike to make her, I think she certainly figures it. The score places once all, all up in my multi race, exotic Sierra in the back end, I picked five and whatever else, all, uh, In enterprise, I’ll probably put red rounder and a fortunate girl up on top and drive.

And in a second and third under it, we’ve got a little bit of a pattern emerging. If folks have noticed a JK, a little more comfortable down on the chalky end of the spectrum, Chris, a little more attractive. That to the contrarian plays, if not out and out long shots, the solid alternatives, but, uh, some good thoughts from both of you.

And I think that’s the most important thing in discussions like this. Yes, the picks are great and gosh knows in the, uh, 400 episode history of this podcast in this incarnation and the previous we’ve given out plenty of [05:13:00] winners, but I still contend that it’s listening to the thought processes of folks like Chris and JK that really make it worth listening to, and with that, let’s go to the seventh race on Saturday at Gulf stream.

And Chris we’ll keep it with you.

Um, Shockey development. Uh, I’m going to try and beat this dress party slop tracks in Kentucky. Uh, now, now it travels down down to Gulf stream. Um, I’m going to take a shot with horologists, uh, the Jersey bread. Um, Daylight, daylight, winter. If they like went in one place where it’s clear, uh, in, in, in the last out, I think this horse can get a, um, a good trip here.

I think the race. Uh, the race, it parks to back where, where she was stuck down inside didn’t necessarily have to have the lead. And I’ve been drawing a little bit more comfortably here. [05:14:00] Uh, I think she certainly figures that a, uh, a square pricing and fancy dress party can certainly win. Uh, I don’t figure wise she towers over the field, but I just worry about those figures being a little bit inflated from the slops, a law I’ll take a chance.

I’m not trying to, not a ton of finish, either looking at the time, form us late, a running style number. JK does our pattern continue? Yeah, you guys are bullying me for picking chalk, and then I’m going to pick an eight to one shot. And Chris goes first and picks my horse. Okay. I had, I had to, I’ll be honest.

Pete knows this. I had to Google horologist. I was a little bit nervous about saying it on the air until I really read and saw the definition was. I thought maybe the jockey club let one through like,

uh, I like horologists for a lot of the same reasons that that Chris mentioned, uh, one being that the inside is not been where you typically want to be, uh, [05:15:00] at Gulf stream. And she spent a lot of time down in there. She should improve second off of that, a small break and like, like Chris mentioned, I, I love betting against horses that have these big numbers on off tracks.

It’s a little bit harder to, to, to, to translate. I think, I mean, there’s obviously a chance that she liked that, that going while she ran so well, she could obviously run off the screen and win by seven. And we’re both sitting here looking silly with horologists third, but I think horologists offers the most value in the spot.

And that’s where I would be playing in contests and be keying and exact as in truck. A horologist is someone who studies the measurement of time. And I only know that because of the brilliant S town podcast, which if you’re looking for a great narrative show, you need to have, uh, a tolerance for things that are kind of dark and upsetting.

But if that doesn’t put you off, check out S town, great stuff. Uh, all right, Jake, let’s move on. And, uh, [05:16:00] and we’ll keep it with you to talk about our next steak here at, uh, at Gulf stream. All right. And in all honesty, Henley’s, Joy’s probably going to run off the screen and win by four again. Uh, after the last performance and the pulpit, but I like louder than bombs.

I’m a little bit concerned about the six to one. Usually those wide trips at Gulf stream and stakes races. People see those trips, they get bet back accordingly. I think louder than bombs will probably be better off of that, but he had no shot in the last race against Henley’s joy, uh, will be a much better price.

I’d like to give that one a shot anywhere that the price doesn’t get a little bit too short. Chris, where are you here? Yeah, Henley’s joy is, is a total standout. I mean, this is the favorite, it’s a well-deserved favorite, uh, drawn outside. I, I think that he’ll, uh, he should win this race easily. And, uh, I guess you need to look for up a price underneath.

They didn’t mean, I think what JK said at that low, louder than Bob. I think, I think he will get that. [05:17:00] Um, but he certainly figures and. First time, service it with Nick Juarez, who was one of the more regressive better term fighters. I go through my gosh, who I really liked, uh, betting on at a number of often that he won’t give you a good ride.

He won’t give you a chance, uh, Eileen Dakotas dude, for, for, for first time in the, uh, the Jason service bar. And it looks completely outclassed on paper, but I would, I would be more than willing to bet that, uh, Nick was out this horse, uh, into the race early. Cause it doesn’t look like there’s a ton of stuff.

A ton of up patient here. So I think at Henley’s Joyce today, a comfortable trip and I’ll use a code is dude, uh, underneath try and get a little more value than the, uh, the three to five or two to five that you can get ahead of the store. That’s race nine at Gulf stream. I realized I never said that. And there’s one more steak at Gulf stream on Saturday, and it goes at the 10th.

We’re looking at a short field return to the races of code of honor. What do you think Chris? [05:18:00] Is it hard to get by code of honor for me, um, when great in his debut it’s, it’s Saratoga at a nice number, but second to complexity in the champagne. I mean, they’ll be no shame in being finishing second bear now.

Uh, I think he has the field over a barrel here. I think, I don’t think he’s, he’s going to need the front here. I think he can sit right off. Uh, cause I think he got horses like trophy chaser and well-defined and a gladiator came as low. They’re probably gonna go into the front as well. And do do better with Jordy works.

I think, I think Johnny, B’s going to just have a field over a barrel here. Do we flip the script here? J K with Chris going for the chalk and you reaching for something at a number or are you in line? I’m going to give another horse. I mean, I would use cone of honor. I wouldn’t try to get cute and beat the horse at all is the most likely winner I kept catching my eyes kept catching this me host the horse for a Jimmy Jerkins.

Who, who, [05:19:00] uh, ran well against the Tacoma who we’ve talked about on the show on debut, and then came back off of a little bit of a break and ran rail ran well there with a short price was really impressive in that race. There’s always the opportunity that that horse could continue to improve. Uh, the stretch from six furlongs to eight is obviously a question, but, but a was finishing kind of in an upline and his last effort code of honors, the type of horse that’s going to win, and people are going to start making annoying Derby top 21.

But I, to me, it’s one of those two horses with code of honor being the most likely with me hosts providing some type of. Of of value, but I there’s a six horse field and there’s not a whole lot in here. I think trophy chaser might take a little bit of money, but not much. Let me ask you JK. I think, uh, the big question for me about code of honor, if you made me make one of those silly lists you referred to, which we typically don’t do on this show, he would be at my, uh, top of it, I think based on the talent he’s flashed so far, but I didn’t like that story about, Shugg not liking how he was working.

Going into the [05:20:00] REMS. And have we heard anything about how he’s working since a positive or negative? I haven’t seen anything. You know, they’re working at patient, which for the people like me, who really, you know, lean on clock and reports to have an idea of what’s going on, you won’t find one for pacing.

Uh, it’s a private facility, obviously. No, one’s there clocking well, there’s people clocking, but no, one’s there reporting on those events. Think that it was going to have this one ready to rock and roll, but it’s also shook, right? Like he might just use this as a stepping stone with really just wanting to win the Florida Derby.

And this is a race that’s not of any importance to him. Just getting the horse, going back in the right direction. It’s a very dangerous proposition. You have no idea what to expect. It’s one where the market is going to have a real impact on how I view it. And of course, that’s not going to be helpful for the pics, but this is a horse who I just want to see buried at the windows as a sign that the works have been good.

And that the intention [05:21:00] is there to start the season on the right foot. How do you view a situation like this, Chris, when there’s such a big unknown in terms of the horses fitness and the trainer intent? I think what you said is a viable way to look at it in terms of education and just getting a feel.

If this one works is dead early, you’ll have a much better idea that people in the know potentially word is out. That horse is fine, short price. They were like that he would get put up the horse a little loop, warm, uh, then I would certainly have a little bit of hesitation, but, uh, I would just have to trust that.

If there’s any concern about the horse’s fitness or it’s something maybe gone awry in works should know. Sugar’s one of those guys talk about like earlier about shad and Todd and CEO and thinking big picture in comparison to what Nick Saban shows. One of those guys that has the long-term big, long view [05:22:00] in his mind.

If there’s anything to be concerned about, I wouldn’t expect the horse to run, but, uh, if you, if you see him in there, I think, yeah, I think that tells you all, you need to know. Good points. Let’s move on to our final two races, which take place at the great race place, Santa Anita. And, uh, actually, before we dive into the specifics, I want you Chris to talk about, uh, one of the horses.

You have a little bit of an interest in running out at Santa Nita this weekend. Well, unfortunately, a little bit of bad news that we are not that full street will not be making games is much anticipated return to the track this weekend. Uh, got a little bit of a, a, a coffin and Bob Baffert said just.

He’s fine. Otherwise he was ready to roll, but working up a storm and, uh, will not be running this weekend, but he expects to run, uh, early February. I think February 2nd, he said there might be a, uh, a race in mind for him. So, uh, uh, he had some, he had, [05:23:00] I mean, you guys know one, one thing after another, it was sick.

Then he had, uh, it’s a little off, some time off and then. Had the, uh, the throat procedure breathing procedure. And Bob said ever since then, uh, he’s been fantastic. So hopefully we can get this a little flu bug, little cough out of his system. And, uh, and we’ll see him what time he said I need to probably around February 2nd.

I think hopefully it’s not going to be February 9th and 10th because that’s going to take away a race away from me in the FAQ that I’ll be able to apply. Is, is this, uh, is this the first horse that Kirk’s been involved in or have you gotten them involved in other horses before? No, this is the first one he’s been involved in.

And it’s actually first for those who don’t know the story a couple of years ago, when a college game day in Kirk is always, Kirk’s been a racing guy he’s been going to the Derby. Gosh, probably for, for. 15 years straight now, he, he don’t sit and watch races with me. I’m on the bus on Saturday. I’ll fire [05:24:00] something out and I’ll be like, really?

You got who you got. Uh, give, give me a pick for, give me, give me something. Give me an exact box and a breeders’ cup as well. But a few years ago, when game day was in Tucson for Arizona game, uh, Bob Baffert was our guest picker and, and. Kirk and Bob exchanged numbers and Kirk expressed interest like, Hey, I’d love to get involved and not, and then didn’t hear anything.

And then like, Gosh, a year later, uh, Bob texted him out of the blue saying, Hey, uh, I got something that you might be interested in and it wound up being in a dotted for a little bit less than what he thought. And, uh, Saul street is now when he, this book is maiden for fun. Uh, it Delmar’s a two year old and then, uh, random the stakes got a bad post and came out of the race predictably, uh, beat up and then.

Uh, it was a little often in work there. And so he, I think he’s [05:25:00] waiting for a, uh, uh, he, he wants a, when he wants another, uh, uh, another one to get a little bit more of a bank roll. And then I, but I do think the interest is there for him to get a little bit more involved. Cause he’s got, he’s got the bug, he’s got the bug big time and, uh, we, we we’ve been waiting for a while to see him run back and uh, just gotta wait another month.

And you’ve been along for the ride as a, as a co-owner. Oh, yeah. I own a couple of us strands of the tail with my bank right now. But, but you know what, that fits the great part of that. I don’t own much of this horse, but it’s just so much fun to be you. You would have thought that the horse won a Derby prepped in punches ticket to Louisville, but when he, when he broke his maiden DOB, it’s just a great feeling to know that I, it’s funny. It’s a little bit of an investment, not much, but. It’s just enough to keep it. Interesting. You can say I got a piece of words that want to know more. You are preaching to the choir. My friend were the guys who were lucky enough to have our friends at 10th [05:26:00] strike racing, invite us along on the amazing if brief, long on value ride.

So we know all about, uh, even a small. Ownership interests can just make the game so much fun and take the, your experience of being a racing fan to a whole other level. All right. I’ve kept you already longer than I said. So let’s dive into these races. First one, we’re going to talk about goes as the seventh.

It’s the San Gabriel, a grade two mile and an eighth on the turf. Chris, we’ll start with you. I think Liam and Sharma and Nick shares are horses that are obviously a figure and are certainly must use, uh, underneath, uh, in exotic. So they, they just seem to fire every single time. But, uh, I’m intrigued by Cleopatra’s strike.

Uh, first time D’Amato Flavian flat chooses to ride this horse, uh, some success at Woodbine. Now now ships out West bread up and down regally. Uh, I don’t [05:27:00] think you’re going to get eight to one on, on, on the, on the Delta here, but, uh, I think, uh, this is a horse that should probably still be somewhere maybe in the six to one type range.

So, uh, cause, cause I think you will get. A lot of places that shares a lot of play for fully in the trauma as well. But, but I think with Pratt showing interested, riding this horse, uh, first time out here on, uh, I’ll take a shot with Cleopatra. J K I agree with the two horses that he had mentioned, uh, from the start, Liam, the charmer.

And, uh, and next shares, I think both of them are, are extremely live. I’m not going to go into crazy details about that. I think that Liam, the charmer, if you’re wondering why he ran so bad in the last race, absolutely hated the growing either huge horse was never going to run well that day and the horse that I wouldn’t use here, uh, as much as I love our friends at Glen Hill farm Chicago style, once more ground the mile and an eighth is not, uh, is not exactly what this one’s looking for.

He’s going to run the, the more mile and a half types. Um, [05:28:00] and, and so I would, I would fade there to try to get a little bit of more value in this spot by not using the three to one shot and, and go with the other two, Liam, the charm or the horse that our friend Mike McCarthy joked with us before the work breeders’ cup week.

Do they have. Earthquakes in Louisville. Well, you’re about to hear one, just referring to how the horse gets over the ground and you could see that soft ground that he’s going to sink into. Isn’t going to suit a big horse. Like that was that. Do I have the right equine JK? That is the right one. Yeah. And hopefully this is going to be one of those.

One of those rides from Kent, DeSorbo where he’s going to ride the horse perfectly and win, or he’s going to fight him and wrangle them back and make one silly kind of run. This is one of, this is a perfect example of what Kent is. He’s either absolutely brilliant. Or he does something that makes you kind of scratch your head.

We’ll see what he does on Saturday. We talked before about those Derby lists that are going to be popping up. I’m sure they are popping up all over Twitter and various corners of the internet. [05:29:00] The favorite in race nine, the sham is on all those lists. I’m talking about Coliseum. Why don’t think we’ve given much credit on the show yet, but to be fair, it’s early in the season and we tend to ramp up our Derby chat a little bit later than some shows.

JK. We’re going to keep it with you. It’s a great name. Uh it’s uh, when you see the big gray thing, you know, running with the blue silks, it’s just, uh, a, it looks like a poster that you’re going to see on your wall four years from now. Um, he’s a maniac. It’s clear that he’s a maniac. You can watch him work in the morning.

You can listen to Baffert interviews. He’s nuts. And I think to, to, to lean on a horse, like that is always a dangerous thing, but I do think he’s the most talented horse. And I think that gunmetal gray who’s the, probably the horse that could beat him is going to be a short price too. It’s just a really hard race to try to play.

Cause you either have to try and you can’t really use both of them in multi raised beds, unless you love a lot of prices outside of them. I’m going to go with coliseums. [05:30:00] I think he’s the most talented horse. Uh, and I think that, that this is going to be kind of his coming out party if he hasn’t already had that, but it’s not really a great betting race for obvious reasons.

He’s talented and nuts. So you’re saying you relate to him,

Chris. Well, how do you see this? I it’s kind of a race to lose. You’ve been working great. Um, Bob has given them ample time since that debut to space races and come back here. Uh, I agree with you. I think it’s E and you’ll be able to get as hard rates to, to bet. I think, I think in the multis, you’re singling him, uh, on your, on your aid ticket.

And then if you want to try and you leave them off. Uh, on some motors completely, but I think within the race, I think to play him on top to win. And then you guys had mentioned gunmetal gray. I think that what you try and split them. Uh, I think maybe you try and put one of the Peter Miller horses in there for second, or maybe even be able to keep [05:31:00] the SERMO horse, uh, as a price and try and play Coliseum on top and play one of those prices second, and then play gunmetal gray for third as, as a way to try and make a little bit of money.

But this is going to be. Uh, if he does wane on Saturday, this will be one of the stories, uh, moving forward into dolphins quest to, to finally want to Derby. And, uh, we’ll we’ll, we’ll see what happens if he, uh, is the goods like he appears to be, he’s got the talent. It’s going to be fascinating to see how it develops.

One of the many storylines we will be covering in the weeks and months to come on the, in the money players podcast. And that is it for this edition. I want to thank. Guest Chris Felica fantastic stuff. And since no good deed goes unpunished around here, Chris, we’re going to ask you to come back soon. If you don’t mind.

I will happily join you guys anytime. Thank you. My friend also, of course, thanks to J K the world traveler taking time out, making the shows happen even while he’s in London, in [05:32:00] California, all around the place. Thank you so much, JK. Thanks to DJ unstable for. Ongoing technical support. Uh, we were going to actually have him on the show today, too.

He’s a good judge when it comes to college football, but he couldn’t make it. He was feeling a little hoarse. Thanks. Most of all, to all of you, the listeners, you make the show so much fun to do so grateful that our numbers have just hit the ground running. Not really losing anything. Since the transition from the other show that is a credit to you guys.

Keep listening, keep downloading, keep leaving comments, help us out. Tell your friends we’re going to keep this show going for a long, long time. We will be back on Tuesday with a review of all of this weekend’s action. I’ll be back in the Brooklyn bunker. Then I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. May you win all your photos. [05:33:00] .

 Your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a towel back with you for show number three, the January 1st, 2019 edition. I am not downstate. In fact, we came up to Saratoga Springs for the new year to ring it in, in style.

So I am now broadcasting from the new studio that resides within the little house on the East side. Great. Coming up to Saratoga [05:34:00] for the new year. Did a little 5k in the park that was fun. And as we record this, it is early in the morning. Not even light out yet up here in Saratoga and today’s show a little bit of trickery.

Most of it is going to be the conversation JK and I had about the eclipse awards that we recorded the last day. So that will be coming to you in a minute, but just wanted to put in a couple of quick words, wishing everybody out there, a happy new year. Thank you all for your support. And there will be a further new year’s message.

If you listen past our closing song from Willy Nile today. So stick around for that. In the meantime, let’s go to the audio tape. Let’s talk about the eclipse award balloting, JK. This is something in past years, I’ve actually filled out my ballot live on the show. I’m not going to do that simply because I haven’t done enough work to be perfectly honest with [05:35:00] all the craziness and everything going on in the world.

But I want to get your thoughts on these categories and. I will then go back over things slowly and carefully. And we’ll, uh, I’ll fill in my ballot before the deadline on January 2nd. So, uh, how much have you done so far looking at these eclipses I’ve I’ve actually looked was, was helping a friend with.

Uh, having some ideas of, of, of the finalists through the finalist might be. So I did a, I did a little blast through some of them are harder than others, but, uh, yeah, I I’ve got some, some thoughts. Excellent. All right. Where shall we begin? What, what, what, what order do you want to go? And shall we look at the PPS in order?

Yeah, I’m going with the PPS. So steeple chase, obviously I’m not a, not a overly overly involved. I think it’s straightforward. I did. I looked at that enough to know that Zandra Beale looked like he had the [05:36:00] credentials that I was looking for in wanting to put on top. When you put in the ballot, you’re meant to list three as if you’re listing the finalists, but really the points only count for that first one.

We needed so much. Deep into who’s going to be second and third, but just some interesting conversations of who we are, who else we think will take votes for number one, and then fall in the second and third spot. I like it. So we’ll move on to two year old male. Game winner, right? Isn’t it over? Yeah. I don’t think there’s much to talk about.

He was unbeaten and obviously the breeders’ cup being the cherry on the sundae for me, when it comes down to something that’s close, I’m a breeders cup believer. I typically am going to go with the extra credit for the horse who did well in the breeders’ cup, perhaps a bit of foreshadowing there. I don’t think we need to worry too much about second and third there, unless you had any points you wanted to make about any of the other contenders.

No. I was just curious if you didn’t vote on game winner, who do you vote for? Like who, who is going to actually take another vote? Is the [05:37:00] part to me that I thought was interesting guests, that there’s someone in the world that’s going to bet improbable what the five LinkedIn in the grade one that seems kind of silly to me that you would bet improbable over game winner.

I just want to see the human being who bets someone else. Besides game winner. He could almost be unanimous, but anyway, yeah, it wouldn’t I’d have no problem. If, if he were, I think what you could see if you forced me to do a bet without we keep saying bet, pick without game winner, improbable Instagram, just cause you don’t have common form lines to completely make a mockery of it.

And they’re both undefeated, but I see no reason in the real world why you’d go anywhere. But game winner there. Agreed. Let’s move on to two year old filly. J K uh, how did you see this one? Yes, because it’s America. It has to be jaywalk. You know, I’ve been making this argument that like, we, we do dirt. Like that’s what we do in this country.

And so when you have a horse, like jaywalk who wins the present and a grade [05:38:00] one, and then also comes back and impressively wins the breeders’ cup, juvenile fillies, like that’s supposed to mean a lot, but golly, man, a newspaper of record is really good. That was a really dominant and impressive performance.

I think newspaper of records, future is obviously going to be potentially more exciting than what you’re going to get from a jaywalk, but that’s not what this award is about. I want to vote newspaper of record just because I just, I like saying her name and, and, and, uh, and she was obviously a lot of fun for me throughout this year.

Um, jaywalk as well, but I would think that jaywalk is going to win. I would think that. Jaywalk having the two grade ones is enough to push her over the top to get the win that miss Grillo, if it was a great one, obviously that could change things. But, uh, jaywalk will be my number one. I think newspaper record we’ll get some votes.

I mean, yeah, that sounds exactly right. I mean, for me, when you’re looking at it, grade one wins and money, right? So you’ve got [05:39:00] 1.3 million versus 700,000 and the two grade one wins newspaper record couldn’t have been more. Impressive. And there are circumstances where I would have put her on top, but I think Jay walked in enough to keep the voting pretty traditional here.

Uh, in terms of terms of having to list a third for, uh, the, the finalist portion. Was there another who leapt out at you? I think Bella Faena, she wants to grade one dog. So he didn’t run well in Churchill and the juvenile fillies, but she did run in when two great ones, uh, this year. So I think that it would probably be her.

I guess maybe chasing yesterday could get a couple of like weird. Why do you have a, why do you have a vote votes? Um, what you say for a vote that you deem inappropriate? A why do you have a vote vote? I don’t, I suppose Bellfina would be the more traditional choice, but I, I wouldn’t say it’s as bad as why do you have a vote?

Vote, but simply because you have a string of wins and a grade one, [05:40:00] you, you think it would be that bad choice? I mean, knowing not for top spot, not for them top spot, but to put on the ballot, I guess that’s the difference in what we’re saying? You’re saying, you’re saying, why do you have a vote if you’re chasing yesterday over, over jaywalk.

And I would agree with that three, your old male shortest conversation of the show. Well, I think we can just go ahead and skip over that part of it and go to the interesting part of it is justify. Obviously it’s going to win this one, but there, I do know who I think deserves to be second. And I think that this horse will, will ring near to your heart and that’s cat.

I flipped boy, I mean, one, two grade ones on two different services. And I think that that is, it is definitely something that deserves some recognition and I would. Cope that, that some, someone who, why do you have a vote vote? We’ll vote for Catholic boy instead of justifies. So the Catholic boy should at least get his name off it.

He deserves it well, he’ll he has the opportunity, the way they calculate the finalist to just from second and third votes, it [05:41:00] doesn’t, nobody needs to vote for him to be number one for him to be on the ballot. It’s not like even if everybody goes all justified, they’ll still be three names, uh, for us to consider.

Perfect. Yeah. I mean, justify obviously is going to win. He won a triple crown. There’s really not much more to discuss there. And I bet you McKinsey can, if people didn’t send their ballots in already could sneak in there. He had a pretty impressive, uh, campaign. And if you really, you know, obviously he wasn’t.

A full campaign, but he went to grade ones and, uh, and, and to, uh, to other graded stakes, to be on the ballot as one of the finalists, for sure. Justify wins at unanimously. Three-year-old Billy, what did this one look like for you? Um, Monomoy girl obviously is going to win that one. That’s pretty simple.

Well, I think rushing fall should be a finalist in the second. The third finalist was one that I struggled with. Um, you know, I guess I thought. People might vote for, uh, for, for men IBC, which I think would be deserved. She kind of danced all the dances [05:42:00] and she showed up. She was in the money and every race she ran in this year, which I think is probably, uh, something that you, you, you want to get some credit for it, especially because all of those were greatest stakes racist.

So I would think midnight VCU deserves to be in the mix. Uh, Monomoy girl being the winner, and I’d like to see rushing fall, take some consideration for, for her performances this year, gree, uh, you know, you have the grade one win for rushing fall. The manner of victory. Very impressive. Obviously Monomoy girl has to, has to get the nod for me the way that I look at it.

Things, but putting rushing fall up there on the ballot and midnight BC on the ballot feels better to me than grabbing one of the, you know, a Euro who raced once or whatever, the other ways that you could logically go. Another very quick conversation, older dirt, male. Maybe I’ll ask it this way. Who do you put in behind accelerate?

I think city of light. Definitely deserves, deserves a little bit of a look proof after that my heart wants Yoshida, but that doesn’t really make a lot of sense. [05:43:00] Cause it’s old, older dirt. That’s tricky. A lot of his exploits happened on the green stuff. So second choice. I could definitely tell you that I would, I would vote for, for, uh, uh, for city of light.

And after that I’m not a hundred percent sure. All right. I’ll take a longer look and we will get an answer there. Get some clarity before I have to send this ballot in. I hear you’re sentimental attachment JK for Yoshida, but if you want to go that route, how about a little love for mind, your biscuits and the campaign that he had?

You certainly couldn’t put them on top, but if you’re talking about filling out the underneath spots, would you have a problem with that? Not at all. I mean, I agree. I mean, I do wish that there was a, another grade one that took place on these, on these. These streets, but, uh, it is what it is. Let’s talk about older dirt, female.

How did you see it, man? This one’s really tough. I, I started to kind of just work my way through and I could find a bunch of horses that made sense. Uh, Abel Tasman obviously ran two grade ones, one, two grade ones, big ones, the personal incident with [05:44:00] Saratoga. Also the Ogden Phipps on Belmont day, uh, both very popular races.

And then she just kind of had the two duds. You know, blue prizes wants some graded stakes, you know, uh, Marley’s freedom was one that kinda caught my attention with the ballerina when, uh, the gopher wand and the other graded stakes, but, but not enough red ones to really say like, Oh, this is your champion.

And then I fell on the horse that like, I kind of fell on last year in the S in the sprint category, like, I guess, unique Vela. If you look at what she did, she won the grade tomorrow, Sam, uh, Santa margarita. Then she comes back and wins two more great ones, the bill, uh, the beholder mile and the Clement Ella hers.

So, I mean, I guess it’s unique, Bella. It’s it’s she’s the most, uh, underwhelming back-to-back. Um, eclipse champion, then we’ve seen, it feels like, but, um, I mean, I guess that’s where you go. Was it the city there? Wasn’t the Santa margarita. Was it? What was the, what was the race? The first race of the year for her?

Yes. And I swear to you JK, when we [05:45:00] did this last year, I don’t even think we talked about unique, Bella. In the, in the eclipse show. So if you came around to her, it was, it was, I think after the fact, I think it was a bizarre situation where we just whiffed because I can remember mapper near sake to us after.

Ah, what about unique Bella for that? And being like, yeah, we probably should have mentioned her. That’s kind of where I’m going to, I mean, you’ve got grade one wins and you’ve got a wide open category. I mean, Marley I think is the second place that I go when you consider the trip. In the breeders cup and then coming back to win again.

But you’re not too comfortable giving her the nod. No, I mean, if I, if I, if I look at the PPS and I cover up the racetracks that these races were run at it, it’s hard for me to even identify where some of these races took place, the dance smartly. I, I think that’s in California, right? Yeah. Okay. The great lady.

Uh, yeah. You know what I mean? It’s [05:46:00] like, Those aren’t the races that you envision when you’re talking about a champion seven, 18, she earned to six 80 for unique Bella. So they’re close and unique Bella in so many fewer races. When you look at figures, I think it also gives a little bit of a nod to unique Bella.

So I’m going to look at that one a little bit more, but I think you’re probably on the right track. Male sprint is up next. I think I know where you’re going to go here, but I’m not sure. Long on value.

So fun to see a horse that we had something to do with on an eclipse ballot. Thank you. One more time to our friends at 10 strike racing for letting us be along for the ride. It didn’t last long, but what a two race ride. I knew I should’ve gotten up there for Queen’s play to see it, but it was one of those.

It was going to be. Such a big fight with [05:47:00] Susan, because we were meant to be with her family that weekend. Of course not having another race. I now wish I could time machine back and, and pick that fight as a, as a potential marital Hill to die on, but I did not do it. And, uh, there you have it long on value.

Great to see the name on the eclipse. Ballot, but obviously not one that you, uh, you are going to be putting as a finalist, or are you that much of a Homer? No, I think Roy H and a and stormy liberal are going to run one to Rockingham. Ranch is going to hit the exact, the, in this thing. Uh, Roy, I think deserves the win.

The sprint championship obviously won the breeders’ cup race. He won the grade one at Santa Anita, stormy liberal. Back-to-back winner of the breeders’ cup, breeders’ cup, turf sprint. Um, and, and rolling off four wins in a row for him. I think he should probably get second. And then I guess, you know, here’s a horse.

I struggle with a little bit, I guess you, I would like to see city of lights name up there. Uh, you won the triple bend, obviously, uh, ran second in the forego and then won the one term breeders’ cup dart mile, which I think [05:48:00] could probably, uh, could get you in off the goalpost in terms of sprint candidates.

He’s very interesting. Um, mind your biscuits? His campaign was so. Cool, but you can’t, and, and he’s a sprinter by nature, but he didn’t run that way this year. So it’s not him. I think city of light deserves, uh, a look for third, even though his signature win of the year came in in a one turn mile. I still think when you’re looking at a bang up performance, uh, albeit in defeat in the forgo, but when you factor everything in and then you go back and you look at the triple band, I think it’s enough.

I think it’s enough to get them third, or are we where we overlooking somebody more obvious? Well, I think that stormy liberal is probably a little bit wise guy showed me. I would imagine that Imperial hint. Uh, with his grade one, uh, races on the dirt probably are going to be enough to keep him in the top three, uh, winning the, the Vosburg and the Vanderbilt.

So I think that he’ll probably be a male and also the true North, although it was only a grade two that it does take place, uh, on [05:49:00] one of our biggest weekends and up at Belmont. So I think Imperial hint will probably be in the top three, maybe stormy liberal, because it took place on the turf. He might slip out of there and I could actually make an argument that maybe he could be considered for a.

Older male turf, stormy liberal. Interesting. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. Okay. Let’s move on to the female sprint. JK, who were your finalists? So I guess Marley, you know, we, we, we have to use Marley in this spot based on that. But in these D and these little races where it’s like this, I, I I’d rather just have Shamrock Rose when she won the breeders’ cup, filly and mare sprint.

Let’s let that count for something. Um, I, I couldn’t even tell you trips considered though. I mean, do you, how much do you care about that? I mean, I care. I mean, I don’t know it was better in the race. I don’t think that we should consider trip when voting for this award because it’s a body of work award anyways.

So if one race. You know, one race shouldn’t carry so much [05:50:00] weight, except it happens to be the breeders’ cup. And there happens to be no one else with, with a resume that makes me say, Oh, I have to vote for you. Makes me want to vote, or you make a great point about the body of work, but doesn’t the body of work.

Go to Marley too, with a hundred speed figure in the grade one ballerina at Saratoga. It does. It does, but why is the ballerina worth more than the breeders’ cup? No, but to me, I can’t separate their breeders cup efforts. Yes. Shamrock Rose. Got it done. But I mean, I don’t think there’s any world in my view, in which Marley’s freedom.

Wasn’t just as impressive as you throw a blanket over who ran the better race from an ability point of view. Actually, if you really put my feet to the fire, I think Marley ran better from an ability point of view. If everything else favored Shamrock, I think I’d go Shamrock, but I think I’m going to go Marlin.

In all honesty. What I’ll probably do is this’ll probably be the, this will probably be the category that if I’m, if I happen to be there, uh, this will be the category. I’d probably go to the rest. Oh, that’s not nice. It’s it’s I don’t really care that [05:51:00] there’s no, there’s nothing. There’s no. Horse that like, I’m going to look back 10 years from now and be like, man, that Marley’s freedom in 2018 boy, she really man, she was something special.

Like it’s just not, it’s not that type of category this year. I don’t think let’s be honest. When you say race, I’m going to go to the restroom. You really mean race. I’m going to duck to the bar in the back and bet a few harness races with Dave Weaver. If they weavers there, that will happen. We gotta get him on the show.

Definitely another way we are adding this list of potential guests. That’s pretty fun matched only by our list of potential sponsors, male turf, JK. This one is. A little bit tricky, a horse that I will say probably deserves even a little bit of credit is his glorious empire glorious empire here with the, with the late December.

When isn’t that, isn’t that where you have to go. I mean, I guess let’s talk it through. Okay. [05:52:00] So glorious empire is definitely a consideration. Who else? There’s no, I’m not even going to say this and the horse’s name. I’m not even going to mention the Christina Helmer. Um, I mean, Robert, you can’t give it the Robert Bruce, just off the Arlington million when and the Fort Marcy, when you know story liberal, I, you probably can’t give it to stormy liberal.

He’s a sprinter one, one grade one, and. Uh, you know, you can’t do that. I can’t really give it to an expert. I just showed up here once in one, one race that doesn’t seem like it makes a ton of sense. Catholic boy. Um, he did have two stakes wins, but you know, only one grade one. And that was against restricted companies.

When you want to give that to, it’s just tough. It’s tough. So yeah, I guess. You got to give it, I mean, you know, Catapult’s sneaky, you know, grade two wins at Del Mar, but I guess you have to give it to glorious empire, which kind of makes me. Maybe, hopefully they run these events, these back to back and I can stay up there betting on it.

[05:53:00] There is sick individual JK, so many horses from throughout the year that we talked about on the podcast in this, uh, in this category. It’s, it’s, it’s a lot of fun. I don’t know which one to taunt you with Mo, most I was gonna make a spring quality joke, but I figure you’ve suffered enough for at the, at his hands.

Yeah, let’s just give it to Yoshida and be done with it. Female turf candidates. Fun to look back through these PPS. What did you do? The first question is, is do you feel dirty if you give it to enable? No. You don’t know. I mean, dirty. No, it’s the Breeder’s cup turf. It’s if you want to reward people for taking these kinds of chances, I’m not saying it’s definitely what I want to do, but I don’t feel dirty.

Older sister, Charlie. I mean the one for grade one’s on American. Yeah. Yeah. I think when you [05:54:00] look at what the rules are, sister, Charlie’s probably the better choice. I’m just saying I don’t, I don’t have like a huge problem. If somebody wants to, wants to go in the different direction. I don’t think there’s too much doubt who’d win if they raced, but.

Now is that right? She went for, I remembered the three. Oh, the Jenny Wiley. Yes. I mean, that’s a very hard resume to deny sister. Charlie probably should win, put an ABL up there with the finalists who would be your third? I mean, I think probably one of the other Chad’s would, would have an argument with either Hooni or raving beauty.

I think Arabian view. You had two great ones, but man, I’m the, the, the. The underdog lover in me kind of wants, uh, the silica to get, to get her name up there based on yeah. You know, being claimed and winning grade ones and winning graded stakes. I think she would be really fun to see up there, but I, you know, I also don’t think that you can ignore raving beauty having [05:55:00] one.

Uh, two great ones and being in the money and two others now, other categories, JK, I definitely going to want to do some more, uh, work and digging on, but let’s have a quick conversation. Starting with owner feels like good dolphin and Ronis. Stand above the rest of the crowd. Huge year for Godolphin with over 20 million in earnings, as well as a lot of graded stakes success, sixth grade, one wins.

Are you tempted to take one of those two? And which one would you give preference to anybody else you want to nominate quickly? Yeah, it’s tricky with, Ronis like not having nearly as many, uh, as many horses, but seems to have a lot of stars though. You know, they run a lot of lower level stuff, probably a lot more lower level than good dolphin, but no, the, the money difference there, you got to go with good dolphin there with a 20 million, uh, winning a lot of big races, a big operation.

If you don’t give it to good dolphin, you probably want to give the 10 strike. [05:56:00] But, uh, but definitely a good dolphin. If you’re. If you’re a more of a blue blood, what do you thinking in terms of breeder? This is when you have to dive really deep into, I think, to try to figure out where it’s at. It can be misleading.

The stats WinStar obviously had the most, uh, most money overall with, with a lot of runners. Uh, they breed a lot of horses. Calumet was up there as to best solu had $7 million in earning with that. That can be a little bit misleading because that came all from, from gun runner. Um, John Gunther obviously bred a triple crown winner.

There should probably be some consideration there. Um, this is one that I’ll probably not give you an answer on. I’ll let you dig a little bit deeper, but those are some of the storylines at least I would follow. Yeah. Going in Gunther is the name on the, on the lips. And that probably that’s the way that I’m going to want to go in the end.

But I do want to dig around a bit more and giving WinStar some sort of a nod for the earnings is, is, is [05:57:00] tempting 215 starters. On the year, totaling 8.4 million plus probably ends up on the shortlist as well. We’ll see about the third name and we’ll see who I end up sticking. That’s one where I’m going to figure out my contenders and then grind a little bit more because it’s, uh, it’s easy to just dial into the information that gets spoonfed to you when you get the ballot.

But I think sometimes you can come up with some clever ideas on your own. If you dig a little bit deeper, does that sound about right to you? Absolutely. All right, let’s go on to jockey. J K. Maybe we should have done apprentice jockey first, but I clicked on jockey. So that’s what we’re going to do, uh, which are T’s.

Do you give it to me? I think it, to IRA this time, he had almost a hundred more wins and then Jose had a better year just in general. I think it’s pretty simple. I think it’s probably a slam dunk that it’ll be Iran. It’ll be back to back or tease brothers. And I imagine that won’t be the last time it happened.

Okay, while we’re talking about [05:58:00] riders, do you have an opinion on apprentice? I’m not a believer. You’ll see certain folks. Almost proudly talk about their ballots and be abstaining in certain categories. And generally I don’t, I don’t love that. I think that it’s, it’s our job to dive through the data and make decisions and try to help make the most informed decisions.

We can apprentices the one category where I do have some sympathy for that point of view, because I feel like unless you watch. The specific candidates involved every day, you might be really missing some nuance. The stats don’t necessarily tell the whole story. Do you agree with that as a philosophy? J K and what do you think about this category specific?

I do. I think this was tricky. I think the thing you want to probably look at first is the amount of wins that someone had and then the money they earned. But then you also want to try to, to see like, you know, who. Yeah. You know, I don’t think you want to necessarily punish someone for having a lot more [05:59:00] starts than someone else, but you also don’t want to give someone too much credit who had a lot more at bats.

So I typically, when I look at this list, I’m I feel pretty comfortable just looking to see who earned the most money and who had the most wins. That’s Western Hamilton. I’ll tell you what this Ray, Lou Gutierrez kid I’ve actually last week, like fell in the YouTube hole and watched like three or four interviews with him.

He’s got a college degree. He, his father was a, was a trainer. I think his uncle was a rider. Uh, he went down to Gulf stream and now he’s riding an aqueduct and, uh, seems to really have a career ahead of him. And so he’s one that, you know, with 94 winds at a 737 starts is one to consider. But I would imagine that Western Hamilton will just win based on winning the, the, the, uh, the, the winds and the, uh, the earnings.

What do we have left? Brainer. Yes, we got to do trainer. I was actually, I had forgotten about trainer. I thought we’d done it all and was setting up a gag for horse of the year. That’s talking about trader really [06:00:00] quickly. Chad Brown sits at top the earnings list as mucin and Baffert right in behind Baffert you know, is going to be on the ballot at least for producing the second, a triple crown when you’re not producing, but training the second triple crown winner in just a handful of years.

Who do you give your top vote to in this category? I guess it has to be Chad. I think Steve asked me son probably could deserve, can deserve it every year, right. With, you know, 397 wins. He runs a lot more horses than everyone else and a lot in different places. The money earnings, I think for Steve is probably a little bit skewed based on, on gun runners of, uh, the Pegasus, which shows up in this calendar year.

So, uh, I mean, I guess I wouldn’t have a problem if, if, uh, if Bob got it, For, you know, having a triple crown winner wouldn’t have a problem with Chad. Got it. I wouldn’t have a problem with Steve. I think one of the interesting people that you could maybe throw into the mix, and I don’t know if he’s ever been a finalist before.

Probably not. Uh, it would be [06:01:00] Brad Cox for trading the great long on value, uh, and also probably the three-year-old, uh, Philly champion. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe that one too. Maybe you get sneak, sneak a little reference in there for the three-year-old champion, but you may put, give the props one more time to long on value.

I say one more time. I assume the, the veneration of long on value will be an oral meme that will proceed. Way into the hundreds of episodes of this show. And that brings us to horse of the year. I think this is good. I mean, we’ve already had the debate. I think we feel differently about it. I’m voting for accelerate.

I feel good about voting for accelerate. I think, you know, the horse that ran faster for longer, I’ve talked about my giving extra credit to the breeders’ cup classic in the past. I have no problem. I’m not one of these people. And it’s funny because there’s people on both sides of this argument. It’ll say you’re an idiot.

If you don’t agree with me, I will not do that. [06:02:00] For me the way I look at the world, very happy giving the award to accelerate. I feel like the only argument for justify is buddy won the triple crown. That’s honestly as impressive as it is. He has his own perfectly good three-year-old award that we can give him again.

I don’t have a problem if you’re all about the triple crown. And you can’t see past it and want to give it to them. I’m not going to tell you you’re wrong, but that just ain’t me. It’s not how I look at horse racing. It’s not how I look at the world. If you made me choose between being a triple crown guy and a breeders’ cup guy, I’m a breeders’ cup guy through and through.

And I feel like if you feel that way, accelerate is. The clear and correct alternative. Have you changed your mind at all? Since we initially started talking about this or are you still team justify all the way? And can you give a reason other than some variation of  but the triple crown? Yeah. It’s to me it’s very simple.

It’s it’s a, it’s a question that I’ll ask anyone who votes for accelerate and not have no, I don’t, I don’t have a problem with it, but I’ll just ask the question and then I’ll move [06:03:00] on. If frosted nails, American Farrow. The first Saturday in June in 2015. And we don’t see a triple crown in 2015. And this is the first one we’ve seen in 30 something years.

Does it change your vote? I don’t think so. It’s hard to say. Cause there might be an emotional weight that changes things around. But I think if everything else was similar, well, obviously it would be, we’re still at that point. I think I’m still voting the same way. It may have been different if there hadn’t been a triple crown and if.

The races that justify ran had been more complete and, or he’d beaten better horses that went on to do anything through the year. I think at that point, those factors would also come more into play for me, but as it stands, I think that when you really, I understand emotionally, it probably would have been an [06:04:00] undefeated justify.

Had it been the first triple crown, but I don’t think that’s right. And I think in this thought experiment, I’m happy sticking with my vote, where it was. Where is yours justify? Definitely justify. I just feel like that. Uh, I feel like when, when everything about our sport, all right. When you debut a horse in a maiden race at Santa Anita at Saratoga at Belmont.

When you debut a horse at Del Mar, when you buy a horse at the Keeneland sale, when you buy a horse, the Saratoga sale, when you’re at the two year old and training sale, when you’re, when you win, it’s all this entire sport is focused a lot on almost all. At least that’s the first step and the triple crown.

And when you can do that, when you can win the all three of those races in that short amount of time. And, and it’s, it’s proven to be a very difficult thing to do. We’ve seen a lot of great horses [06:05:00] that haven’t been able to get it done. And I just think that it’s an accomplishment that can’t be ignored and it’s surely can’t be ignored for, uh, winning a gold cup and winning that, that, that, that, that the, uh, things that, that dinner less than.

Um, less than, than, than Adam, you know, not admirable, but less than excitable, you know, was just a lot, a lot of kind of average races. You’re underselling some of the great races in the sport by taking a look by describing accelerates campaign in that way. I think that’s a mistake just from like, if it was a debate team and I’d say for your argument, like don’t diminish what the other horse did.

Well, I’m not diminishing it. I’m just saying like, You know, just, just look at the horses that he beat and the grade ones. And then I’ll, I’ll leave it. Look at the three-year-olds that justify beat. None of whom went on to do anything fair enough, but he won. It was a triple crown, C, C the one argument, triple crown, triple crown, the celery and the San Diego [06:06:00] handicap beat move daiish and fear.

The cowboy. You can tell me who I double Pavel and prime attraction and the Pacific classic. West coast and ISO Therma to Perforce. And the awesome again, and West coast is a decent horse, but it’s all about the Breeder’s cup classic to me and the string of grade ones. So you can pick apart the form all you want to me, it doesn’t diminish the fact that the horse ran faster.

For a longer one, the breeders’ cup beating any of the horses he would have faced. Had he shipped East? That was something else. You said you might’ve felt better about him in our previous conversation, had he, had he shipped the East, he beat, he beat any of those horses anyway, in the Breeder’s cup. Look, I’m not saying you’re wrong.

I, like I said, if, if you think the triple crown is the end all be all. Give me the breeders cup. You take triple crown. I think the sport would be healthier if we put more focus on older horses, more focus on running 12 months out of the year, more focus on a [06:07:00] series of races, open to all the best competitors, rather than, you know, High school, basketball of the triple crown trail.

And that I feel again, I’m not saying your votes wrong, but I think you’re, you’re going the wrong way by picking apart the form of the best older horse with championship. I don’t disagree. I just think that it’s a, there’s a certain, uh, Certain amount of prestige that goes with, with winning those three races.

You’ve got to go with that one last question for you had all the horses who, but for unlock or very aggressive tactics by other riders would have won the triple crown in the interim between 78. If three of those horses had one, which they honestly easily could have. I mean, I’m not saying it would be the favorite, the three of them would have won, but you know, it was like a six to one chance or something that you could have seen three more triple crown winners under, under other circumstances.

Would that change your mind if it, if the triple crown wasn’t something that had only [06:08:00] happened twice since 1980, less impactful. Definitely. But I still feel like, uh, winning the, you know, the, the, the Derby, the Preakness and the Belmont. Uh, in that short span is still more impressive than the grade ones that accelerate strung together because here’s the truth.

And I don’t know how you feel about this and maybe you don’t. I feel like the Derby and the classic are equal. They cancel each other out. They’re equal. Interesting that I think that that line of argument makes more sense. I just can’t call racist equal when one isn’t. Open, but you make a great point. I mean, there’s such a focus about that.

It’s not everybody, but there’s a disproportionate amount of focus with people who are in the game to win that one race. So I can absolutely see placing it equal. I don’t think there’s any logical fallacy there, but in my gut, I just take a little bit the other view [06:09:00] and, and give a little bit more credit.

But I, but I think in terms of making a really good argument, you’re, you’re that dog hunts a lot better than the. Feel of the cowboy argument? That’s fair. I that’s fair. I just, you know, That’s fair. I’ll leave it at that. We can agree to disagree. It is not a, we’ve talked about it so many times already on this show.

It’s better to not agree. It makes it more fun. We’ll see what happens. Oh, I’ll tell you this. The voters are going to see it your way. If I was betting on who was going to win, I mean, accelerates tend to one, uh, he, I don’t think that enough people are gonna see it my way, but I’m just making the argument and sticking to my guns because, uh, That’s how I feel.

And it doesn’t make sense to just try to be on the winning team and vote justify. What do you think? Do you think there’s any chance justified does not? Oh, I think there’s probably a chance he doesn’t win, but I think he will. Would you take the 10 to one on accelerate? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Interesting.

Interesting. Interesting. All right. I’ve kept you longer than I said. J K [06:10:00] uh, I want to thank you so much for taking time out, away from your family and getting this done. I know it was a little crazy and I appreciate you doing it. And, uh, just want to say, thanks, man. Also once again, Thanks to all of you, the listeners it’s been great.

Not only do you make the show fun to do, but you’ve made this transition to having, uh, our new show as seamless as can be. We hope you will continue to stay with us and support us. Support our sponsors. Once we get them, that’s all going to be happening soon in the new year, we will be back for the next show.

I don’t exactly know what it’s going to be subscribed to the new iTunes feed we are up on there. In the money players podcast, stick with us on Twitter. I’m at looms boldly. He’s at UT big hair and good things going to be coming down the pike in 2019. That’s it for now? I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a [06:11:00] towel.

But you went all your photos.

Um, so paren it’s January 1st, that means that every horse born in this hemisphere has a birthday today. Do you have any message for the horses? Happy birthday?

 Your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is show number two. It is Friday, December 28th. As we record this, I am Peter Thomas.  [06:12:00] back with you, but not in the Brooklyn bunker today, out at my father’s office. And no, I’m not talking about.

The hamburger joint in Santa Monica or wherever that is. I am talking about the actual office where my father used to work out in the house where I grew up on port Washington, long Island out here for the holidays. We’ve got a fun show for you today. Truncated show. It is the holidays. We’re taking it a little bit easy on ourselves.

We want to check in with you all and do about 30 minutes talking mainly about opening day at Santa Anita and having a little bit of fun. And then we will be back early next week with a more serious show where we go in depth about the eclipse awards. But today we’re not going to do anything, all that serious.

And joining me by remote. A man who’s never all that serious. He is back from [06:13:00] California only. Barely. It sounds like back on the planet, Texas. He’s the people’s champion. Jonathan Kenshin JK. How are you today? I am back. I am in, uh, I’m sitting on my couch here in Austin. Um, if I’m, if I’m not screaming it’s because my, my seven year old who was, uh, who was, uh, was a trooper yesterday when we were traveling.

Uh, it’s still sleeping. So I’m trying to keep him, uh, keep him getting some more rest so that he doesn’t, uh, he doesn’t wake up like a furious tornado, terrorize us all. We all know how that goes. JK and I was going to accuse you of a low energy performance on today’s show, but that explanation gets you right off the hook, you know, just how to make it work.

Speaking of children in the holidays, have you ever played the game operation JK? I have, I have played the game. It used to make me nervous when I was a kid. Have you played it with Austin in the, in the last few years? No, I don’t think I have actually, I was just bringing it up because [06:14:00] whoever invented the Charlie horse in the game of operation is on my list.

I’m going to start, you know, like. Uh, Nixon and my buddy, Chris Jericho started keeping a list and the guy who invented the Charlie horse and operation is on my list. I don’t think it’s possible to get the darn thing out of their JK without making the, uh, the machine buzz. And it’s, it’s making me a little crazy it’s to the point where I’m ready to play it when parent isn’t there, just so I can see if I could do it under quiet and normal circumstances.

So I can relate to you in terms of some of the frustration, it sounds like you’ve been going through. I do have to bring one other thing up, uh, regarding your travel. Cause you just said something. I, the listeners just need to hear JK. Um, you know what I’m referring to? You can just repeat it or do I have to draw it out of you?

I’ll let you go. Okay. So I believe I clearly the equipment very, very fortunate. We’ve got our own setup now. Uh, our friend DJ on [06:15:00] stable helped me get it set up, but it’s clearly not working because. What it sounded like you just said was that you weren’t, you were supposed to go to England, but you weren’t going to go to England unless you could get first-class.

Now I know, you know, in the past you had the private plane at some point you had to sell it due to a bad weekend at the track. These things happen. But I mean, this might be the, the snobby just first world problem that we’ve ever discussed on the, in the money players podcast, or the show that proceeded it.

This is going to be a longer explanation necessary, but for people who don’t know, my mom retired from American airlines and I am her registered companion. So I get to like fly for free free note to sell future bingo square idea. I fly for free. Well, I’m always jumping from place to place because it’s free and standby though.

So although there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of perks to it. I can, you know, first-class is available. I’ll get first-class at no additional charge. But there’s also days like yesterday where I got to the [06:16:00] airport at 9:00 AM and I did not walk into my house in Austin until 1145 at night. So for a couple of our flight, really?

So those are the negatives that come with it. So because those negatives come with it, I do debate in some things a certain time. I don’t have to, I don’t have to, to go to London. So if I don’t, if I’m not going to go, if I’m not going to get first-class, then. I’ll wait to go another time where I will, because to be honest, like it’s why going to London for four days makes sense.

If you can get first, cause you can sleep on the way there sleep on the way back, you don’t really lose anything. So that’s the reason for my snobby room. All right. That’s fair. And I assume an MK show is on the agenda. If you get over there, I’m sure it’s sold out, but we do have a lot of. English listeners.

A lot of MK fans. Listen, I saw, I was just curious what, which of the is didn’t you say he’s playing all around the country on a, on new year’s Eve eight plays, London, London, uh, new year’s [06:17:00] Eve night at 1230, I think, or no at like 1130. So he plays through the, you know, the ball dropping or whatever, and then he is out.

I’m not going with him on this, but he’s out the back door. To, uh, I don’t know exactly what airport to fly to literally take a private jet from London, from London to Manchester. And he plays at three 30 in the morning. There. And then, uh, but I’m skipping that one. That’s pretty cool. That would be fun. And, uh, to get some legitimate, private plane experience, at some point, we’re going to do this show from apply private plane.

It’s a, it’s a dream of mine that will have to come true. Hey, one other little bit of business before we start talking about racing the numbers from the first show J K RN and. They were spectacular. And I just wanted to thank the listeners for sticking with us, even though we weren’t on iTunes, we barely missed a blip.

Now I don’t [06:18:00] mean to be unappreciative of the previous show sponsor, because like we said, we give them a lot of credit for help getting us up and running and believing in us at the beginning. But it’s pretty clear to me that, that, uh, assessment we made that we were ready to fly on our own. Is absolutely true.

We haven’t missed a beat and I just want to thank the listeners so much for that makes life so much easier. Next week when we actually get an, a non holiday week and it’s time to go out and start wrangling some sponsors to be able to show that that we haven’t missed a thing. Were you surprised at all to hear how strong surprise might not be the right word?

I was relieved. Uh, just, uh, I, I kind of expected it. I mean, I, you know, Like we said before, we were fortunate enough to get a lot of good feedback. So I felt like people, you know, like and listened to the show. I guess my biggest thing was is that we pretty much ripped away every way that people normally listened to.

So the, the numbers that we got, people had to go out of their way and that’s, that was, that was probably the part I was the most. [06:19:00] Uh, thankful for and impressed with, and that’s why the thing thanks to the listeners are in order. It wasn’t as simple as, Oh, it pops up in your feed and you have to listen.

You had to go out of your way. And we thank you for doing that. Speaking of going out of your way, you did hit Santa Anita for opening day. We’re going to talk about some of the specifics of racing. Actually. Let’s do that. We’ve we’ve done enough. Bantering among ourselves. Let’s start with McKinsey. JK. I saw the tweet you put out about, uh, tabbing him as your choice already for the 2019 breeders’ cup classic.

I was a little more in line with the camp who was thinking, uh, this was, uh, a performance that suggested the 2019 mile winner. How good was McKinsey on this day? Well, I thought he was really impressive, you know, he circled the field and just, you know, it was all, you know, it was all elbows for Mike at that point.

Um, once he kind of went clear, I thought he was really impressive. And, and, and for a horse that, in my opinion, uh, it’s weird. Like why [06:20:00] people are like thinking he’s like a one turn horse. I saw some, a moron. That’s what I said on. He was trying to, who was trying to, uh, Who’s who, who just needs so badly to be acknowledged that he, he wants to get into it.

He’s it? I didn’t see this. I didn’t see the one you were talking about, which, which I’m feeling I’m feeling bad about. It’s uh, it sounds like it could have some fun here. No, it’s very annoying. She’s trying to like, literally honestly, poking the bear. It isn’t what it was. Are you the bear in this analogy?

I’m always the bear speaking of a bear. Okay. So let me finish the McKinsey. And then I had to tell you about a story I forgot to tell you about, and it’s going to be great to tell you live. I, cause I literally did forget. I thought he was really impressive. And look, he, he he’s won two turn races, big ones.

He won the Pennsylvania Derby ran well. He ran so bad in the classic. That was not a, I can’t go a mile and a quarter bad performance. That was a, [06:21:00] something’s not right. I didn’t run well performance and it’s not like he wasn’t involved in a, in a pace that was pretty quick. And it wasn’t like the ask of getting him ready for the classic.

Wasn’t a lot anyways. I think with time and maturity and a full campaign, and really being able to get some, some, some races underneath Isabel, I don’t see why he can’t get a mile and a quarter. So especially at Santa Anita at his home track, so on and so forth. So yeah, I do. I think he’s probably the most talented, um, horse we, we have in training.

Obviously accelerate, but still, you know, from that point. So I think he’s, I think he was really good. I thought it was really impressive. And winning that race against those horses, there were some good horses in there. Yeah. Is accelerate done after the Pegasus? Is that why you, uh, I would think, I would think so.

Maybe I feel bad that I haven’t actually, I don’t have to feel bad about saying that I didn’t read the article

fair point. Sure. It’s there. I’m sure that, that, you know, one of the [06:22:00] great writers there is. Put something together about accelerates plan. I just haven’t seen it, but I would imagine he’ll be done after the Pegasus. What more, what more? I mean, he’s got a stallion career from that point moving forward. So I would imagine that that will be his last year.

The way you phrase that statement about McKinsey and in training, I was assuming that you were, that you had with new definitively. About the other horse, because obviously that would be a strange statement to make if they were both, if you consider accelerates still in training, that’s a trickier statement to make, but you’re projecting into the future.

You’re talking about, uh, you’re talking about moving forward and from that point of view, I absolutely, uh, get what you’re talking about. I just thought that. Some horses, it was one of those efforts visually. Um, to be honest, I haven’t looked at what the figures came back yet, which I probably should have done before the show.

It’s about been a little disoriented out here, you know, how it is when you’re, when you’re, uh, traveling and it’s the holidays and you’re doing relatives things and, and, uh, not maybe as prepared as I should be, but that not [06:23:00] withstanding the visual impression was such that it was a. It was to me a tour to for performance.

I don’t want to say regardless of what the clock says, but I’m just pretty darn sure it’s going to come out well on the clock, just because of how well it looks when you’re just sorta you’re running in the race and then you’re everyone else is still in that race you were running in and you’re running in your own race.

It was one of those. And I don’t know, it just gave such a, I’m not saying that you are wrong, that he couldn’t be a major contender for the classic, but it’s just, my first thought was, wow. That just looked like a ma mile type. Yeah, effort, you know, uh, that’s why, that’s why my head went there. Not that I was disagreeing with you, just that I had some thoughts in my head that appeared before that one.

I wouldn’t, I don’t have a problem with them winning both races. Right. I mean, you know, you run say he runs in the Pegasus, then they give him some time and, you know, give him some time off and then he shows back up. You know, running in the met mile. And then he runs in some of the [06:24:00] summer stuff, whether it’s the Pacific classic or if he decides to take the mile and an eighth route and go to Saratoga, there’s those options as well.

And then, then he comes back and he can still run in the cloud. I mean, you could do both of those races. I mean, let’s remember like mind your biscuits did and didn’t work out well for him. Um, but, but he did, you know, he, he made the double there at least. Yes. He made, he made a tomato to the gate, uh, made it to the gate, looking to the likes of us, like he had a strong chance.

So that is something let’s talk about. Prices. You mentioned about wanting to make this bat. I saw one outlier price of 25 to one. I don’t know how real it is. If you could get 25 to one McKinsey for the classic, that’s a straight up buy for you. No, no. I mean, I I’d have to say no because our, our, uh, a friend of ours, ed DeRosa actually messaged me on Twitter and offered me 25 to one.

Um, I guess I was hoping for a little bit more wise guy than that. I mean, I guess like in [06:25:00] my brain, I was thinking there was somewhere where people wouldn’t believe in a horse that just won the Malibu’s going to win the classic. And I could get 50 to one because he’s obviously had issues and we’re like 340 days away from it.

Um, interesting. See, I thought that was a, I thought that was a, if it was something you were interested in to me, that would be an excellent price. And I figured the real price would be half of that, which is what it seems like. It is looking around to a few other shops and seeing, and seeing tens and twelves.

So yeah, it’s, it’s just a sell for me than it. It’s just definite sell it 10 and 12. Gotcha. More in the whole range at 25. Yeah, exactly. Speaking of buy, sell hold. Now I’m going to put out a, we’re going to put out a warning here. If you haven’t gotten through all seven seasons of game of Thrones, you might want to skip over this a little bit.

I just don’t know how spoiler-y the conversation is going to go. It might end up not being terribly spoiler-y, but anyway, if you’re like nuts about spoilers and you’re not through season seven, You know, hit that [06:26:00] little fast forward button three or four times and see what we’re talking about after that buy, sell, hold JK on who will rule the iron throne at the end of season eight, currently installed as the favorite, just under three to one, we have a Denaris target Aryan, and then we have a line of contenders in behind her, including Sansa and John Stark at three to one.

Brand Starks six to one, Aria seven to one the night King himself at eight to one teary and attends Searcy, a twenties gingery at 25, along with Jamie and then a verus is sort of the wiseguy contender in there at 75 to one, any, uh, any fancies looking over that odd sport. Uh, you know, I think Danny’s a good favor.

I think that, I think that daddy’s a good favorite. Is she a little too obvious? Is she a little too obvious as my only is my only concern there to take such a short price. When though, I guess you could argue. So the way her arc [06:27:00] progressed through, through last season, maybe it was to after season six, she looked nailed on, she looked long odds on and they’ve sort of backed out of that maybe as a way to bring her in though.

So you’re probably right. That’s the, that is the right favorite. Tough. I think John, snow’s probably a little wise guy, you know, a little dressed up, maybe loose, loose on the lead last time on a good rail. Yeah. He seems like he should, but I feel like it’s probably too obvious. I’m going to go. I’m going to take a, I’m going to take the seventh on Aria.

I liked that. I like that. I think there’s a little bit of value there. When you look at the name of the whole thing from the beginning, you have to figure, you know, song of ice and fire. Well, which two characters does that seem to represent? And the fact that it’s not it just now where we sit after seven seasons, it feels too obvious to me to go Denaris or to go.

Or, or to go John and I like where you’re going with that. Do you have a [06:28:00] plucky fan, favorite character? Who’s been on this amazing journey. I like where you’re going. Perhaps you could, you could Dutch them too. You can bet like three, three stark Dutch. You can get an even, you could probably get an even money return.

If you take Danny Johnson million already, the math guys are going to be all over us. All right. Spoiler portion over. If you’ve been scrubbing through to get past the spoilers, we will not talk about game of Thrones anymore. Well, I did say weeks ago we were going to do a game of Thrones buy, sell hold. So I had to make sure that we, uh, that we got that in there.

How did things work out betting wise for you on opening day at Santa Anita? Um, miss the early pig five with that horse, that Jose rode the one horse, uh, in like the third race. Miss that one was, was lucky enough to hear about the pipe he maiden in the fifth. Uh, last second, uh, we, the chappy chappy came through and gave us some advice there on that one.

[06:29:00] Um, he was eight to one, so, you know, whatever. And then in the late pick five, I missed, uh, what did I miss Sadler off? Chad Brown. Yes. Yes. I miss a gift box that he caused me to pick six, two gift boxes. So, um, yeah, it is what it is. Angle there. Interesting angle there. If you don’t mind, do you mind me interjecting for a second?

No, no, no. Of course something that Mike Maloney mentioned to me long ago. Sometimes when you see horses move a couple of horses move from one barn to another. Whatever the first horse does often, if the first horse runs above or below, what would be expected, it will typically, it can typically be a pointer that the other horses going that way might follow a similar trajectory, which I just thought was kind of interesting.

Now that we’ve seen two horses go from Brown to Sadler and both run really well. I just thought that was something Mike mentioned during the book, we had no way of squeezing it in the book, but it sort of stuck with me as something I look [06:30:00] for because you do see that pattern sometimes with horses. So that was all I had to, to mention about that.

But you go ahead. Yeah. It makes a ton of sense. It, so it was that, but it was also that. I believe it was Andy Harrington, one of the workout reports that he was doing. Okay. The other one said he was doing like C plus C plus. So, so when you have a narrative like that anyways, you know, off Chad Brown, and then you see C plus D plus it’s an easy, it’s an easy one to try to run away from.

And obviously it was a mistake. So let’s, let me ask you that. When you see workout reports contradict each other, how do you determine what to do. And it’s just a wash for me. Usually I just, I go with my handicapping, you know, I just consider it a wash and just go with the handicap or I’ll read them and actually read what the, you know, how it, what the definition was of the work, the description, you know, cause sometimes what will happen in those situations is like, you know, this isn’t what happened with gift box.

But just as an [06:31:00] example, gift box we’ll work with accelerate and accelerate. We’ll dust them. And one guy will give them a C plus. But the other guy will grade the work, understanding that he was working against the greatest horse, uh, and, and, and the world right now. And so, you know, on a curve, essentially, it’s like grading a test on a curve and, and to me, that’s what you would have to do.

Right. But, you know, from some of the guys who did their opinions vary, so you have to, you have to kind of read the, the, the, the paragraph about the horse, about the work, which is something that I try to do more than just looking at the grade anymore. It’s tough man, but because it is so subjective, I mean, I breeders’ cup week now I’m no expert, but I’ve spent enough mornings in the company of Sean Clancy, watching horses work that I feel like there’s a tiny little bit of it’s rubbed off, uh, by osmosis.

I certainly wouldn’t put my looks opinion against anybody. Clocking professionally, but I still have an opinion that I think there is some [06:32:00] signal in, and I’ve seen horses work to my mind. Great. That other Clockers had things they, they, they were crabbing about. Usually I don’t see the physical, I don’t see little.

Physical things the same way somebody who’s trained would ever do. I’m looking at more of a, more of a general picture and much more from a betting perspective than anything really in the weeds. Now at the breeders’ cup. In that instance, I was right there. Sure. There’s plenty of instances where I’m wrong, but it just underlines how it can be very subjective.

And it’s not crazy even without the, in the company angle that one person’s. B plus, um, I almost feel like one person’s B plus, or at least B could very easily be somebody else’s C does that match your experience? Sure. Different opinions give you different. That’s why I like to see both because, you know, obviously if you get a double B plus now, you know, that you’re, you know, everyone agrees the horses working amazing.

Um, but then you can also get the double C. Is [06:33:00] is even better where, you know, now, you know, there’s two different people who said the horse didn’t work well. So I like, you know, but it’s the same reason that I use, you know, time form us and buyer time form us and other figures. I like to see, I want to, I need to opinions cause they’re, they are, you know, figures are very scientific.

However, there is a. Dash and a sprinkle of, of opinion, maybe even a little bit more than that. Maybe definitely even to two parts, you know, maybe it’s two parts, uh, opinion, but a lot of it’s science as well. So I want to see, I want to see both, um, when I came to me, it’s a data, the, the data behind figure making, it’s a, uh, a beautiful blend of art and science, whereas workouts to me, much more, much more in the line of art.

Now, what you. Said, they’re very interesting to me. It sounds like you find more signal in the negative workout stuff than in the positive workout stuff. Is that accurate? [06:34:00] Yes. I, I, I like nothing makes me happier than a horse. Who’s four or five, six to one. Who has see workouts and you can toss. There’s so much value there.

If you can, if those, if those situations work and obviously there’s not value that anti evaluation gift box runs a huge race and beat you, it’s not magic. You’re you’re you know what I mean? It’s it’s we always talk about this with successful horseplayer successful gamblers of Annie Stripe. It’s not magic.

It’s like being a card counter in a casino. All you’re trying to do over time is turn that edge in your favor. Just because you get bit by gift box doesn’t mean your methodology is wrong or should change. It means it didn’t work out that time. You have to evaluate the process. You have to evaluate the decisions.

You cannot get too stuck in on the outcome, or you’ll just be lost going from thing to thing to thing and be donating money. Here’s when it was magic and the fifth, the maiden race, where a piping one, uh, Baffert had two in [06:35:00] there, uh, six to five and then had a half the plum pretty who obviously no one liked was 16 to one.

Those two horses had bad workouts and were out of the super high five. I mean, I don’t, I think scalper was six to five and ran six. I believe. So there is magic there when you can find those situations. Um, it doesn’t happen too often, obviously, but when you can find them, it does work out. Well, a few other things to follow up on, you sent me a text that I was very confused about.

You were alive, even with the third choice, winning the first race you had a $25 ticket that would have hit if it wasn’t for gift box. Oh, that pick five. Yeah. Yes. Oh my God. How did you, how did you come up with that? You come up with that. I get it. If you’re making a Dutch type play all the way through, but when you have a big price winning, well, not that big, but [06:36:00] when you have a third choice winning the first leg, who wasn’t your top pick, I didn’t understand how you could have that big of a combination going forward.

I had spice professionals. My second choice, no third, a third, but I didn’t, um, I didn’t give a dream tree very much credit. I had, I kinda like faded her a little bit. So it helped. Yeah. You must have faded her a lot to have that kind of combination going forward. That that’s, that is wild stuff. All right.

You had a story to tell me that you said you haven’t told me yet from Santa Anita opening day. And then I heard some gossip I wanted to ask you about maybe it’s maybe this is the same thing. It probably is. I won’t tell you the name of the person. And does it look TQ a Nadir? Probably like what it was.

Wait, what is a w what is he telling the story for? I’ve been the Eddie Logan a lot in my life, probably more than a hundred times. I’ve never seen it very classy. This is the story. This is the story I heard about that. I was going to ask you [06:37:00] very classy establishment. However, there is a queen. And, and that establishment, there is one part, there is the boss and he, and Keith TQ.

It might seem like he’s the boss, but he will explain to you very quickly who the boss is. It is, it is Arcadia someone, whether it was true or not was getting a little testy with Arcadia, being a little bit choppy based on the, the, the, the time it took for some food to come or something. And in the meantime of that happening a regular of the Eddie Logan, Made a comment just to kind of a take it easy comment.

And then there was a comment back and then it turned into like a bar situation where there, it was like people were holding each other back. Richard came, uh, ish, ish. Like it, you know, it was one of those. Yeah, you got, we’ve all seen it. Right. Um, the, the, the everyone’s holding each other back and there there’s some wild arms, but nothing really [06:38:00] accomplishing.

Being accomplished like you at Churchill downs. J K. When I described as two dogs on leash barking at each other, is that what we’re that we’re dealing with here? Similar very similar. But, uh, anyways, it was, it was, uh, it was definitely entertaining that’s for sure. Nothing, nothing major happened. No chairs got flipped over or anything like that.

Just no drinks thrown in faces, just tempers, tempers, and tempers. That, that, that can flare when a few, few drinks are probably in the mix. Well, I’ll tell you what, I mean, it sounds to me pretty straightforward. Like you had some. Outside person being a jerk and somebody being disrespectful to our kitty who works her butt off, she works so hard in there.

And I’ll tell you what, I would have been full on team guide, defending Workiva. Had I been in the mix? I mean, you know, maybe it, maybe it escalated a little too quickly, but, uh, it sounds to me from the way you’ve told the story, like there is a right and wrong party in here though, I guess, you know, keeping tempers under control and having a, uh, A broader palette [06:39:00] of conflict resolution skills, as we say, isn’t, as I try to teach parents, isn’t the worst idea. But, uh, I do think that the regulars heart was clearly in the right place. Yeah. Yes I do. I do. I think so. But, uh, like you said, probably got to find a different way to, to accomplish it. It says you, the guy who gets into, into skirmishes at a, at Churchill downs, It wasn’t quite a skirt.

Wasn’t quiet quite as good. I don’t know what you want to call it. Any other thoughts from this weekend at, uh, at Santa Anita? Um, no, I, now that you mentioned that I do think spice profession ran really well. Good for her as a, as a Cal bread, winning that grade one and river Boyne is pretty good. Uh, I, you know, I I’d love to see river born.

Get on a plane next year, uh, and run against some of the East coast types. I mean, I, like I said, I’m not sure that he’s good enough, but he’s he is being, he’s becoming fairly [06:40:00] dominant or. At least, uh, you know, he’s there and every race in California, it was a performance by river Boyne. To me that really did exude class in a way that not all the graded stakes wins in California, turf races, dude, I sound kind of flaky, I think, but a deep, do you know what I mean?

It didn’t seem like everything was going his way and it just seemed like. Found a way to get it done and, and appear in position at the right time and finish and just look better than the other horses in that race. Absolutely great. He grounded out, um, and that’s in that spot. So I thought he ran really well.

All right. So we’ve talked about the steaks from Santa Anita. We’ve done a little bit of nonsense. I think in the spirit of going easy on ourselves, we’re going to leave it there for this edition of the, in the money players podcast. We are going to be back sooner rather than [06:41:00] later with our eclipse awards show.

But I want to thank Jonathan kitchen more than usual. I want to thank all of you for listening and downloading. Keep it up. We’re on iTunes. Check us out there. Check us out wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I’ll tell you what, if you really want to help leave us a review on iTunes. You’ll help us get our numbers back up to where they once were.

Um, very easy to do in this day and age helps other people find the show and we really appreciate it. We will be back on Monday. I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel that you win all your phones.

 Your listening to the, in the money players pile new show, new theme song. But for those of [06:42:00] you missing Willie Nile, just stay tuned. You’ll hear him in a bit. You can’t stop rock and roll and you can’t stop the players podcast. All quote, the great Mark Twain. A reporter once asked him about rumors that he’d met his untimely demise.

And he simply said reports of my death were greatly exaggerated. So it is with this show. Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast, where setting the counter all the way back. This is show number one. I am your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a town. I am still in. The Brooklyn bunker as we record this on Christmas Eve morning mugs, the handicapping Labrador alongside for HorsePlayers.

It’s not just Christmas Eve. It’s not just Christmas. It’s the three days in a row, including boxing day, AKA Santa Anita opening day. [06:43:00] And one of the people for whom that’s part of his holiday traditions. Is with me now. He is the co-host of this show. He was the co-host of a little show I used to do as well.

You know him, you love him. He’s the people’s champion. He started out on planet, Texas, but he’s now in planet Arcadia. He is Jonathan Kanchan, JK what’s up PTF we’re we’re we’re back at it. Uh, I always like to say back, like I stole something. It doesn’t make any sense. Cause you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t go back.

If you sold something. For whatever reason, my brain always wants to say back, like I stole something and I’m not really sure why, but we are back. Like we stole something. There’s there’s some window into your psychology in there. Um, above my pay grade, however, above my pay grade. Now I said that you’re on planet Arcadia, but uh, based on the photograph you just sent me.

That is not correct. You haven’t made it all the way [06:44:00] there yet. Where are you as we speak? I am in a, I am in planet Woodland Hills. I am looking at a fancy mixer, some $70,000 mixer. And, uh, my, my brother’s, uh, studio at his house in Woodland Hills. Platinum records on the wall. And when you go into the bathroom, if you need to use the restroom, I’m not joking.

You, this is not an exaggeration. There’s literally 17 keyboards in his bathroom. He, he, uh, he’s, he’s, uh, we’re very similar and, you know, you know, tech stuff gets us excited, but he obviously takes it to the next level. And there’s a lot of toys in his, in his industry. He has all of them, uh, Music producers.

I’ve been in here with some big music producers and they come in and they’re shocked of how, how powerful his in-home studio is. So he’s got it. He’s got everything, everything you could imagine in here and all the, all the fun toys and a bunch of star Wars, memorabilia, a lot of toys. And he’s got a storm trooper over there on the corner of [06:45:00] lifeline, a life-sized Stormtrooper staring at me while I do the show.

How old is your bro? If that’s public information, it’s not, it’s been deleted from his Wikipedia page. That’s a true story. I, and here’s the thing about it is I honestly. I don’t know because of that. It’s, it’s confused to me. Um, he, I think he was like 10, maybe he’s 10. He was 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. When I was born.

10. I mean, probably maybe eight, nine. I don’t know one of the two, so he’s really older than me. That’s for sure. I was feeling him in my age bracket with the, some of the, some of the references and just knowing some of the things I know about his, his career, but, uh, and then the star Wars thing pushed it over the edge.

So anyway, I’ve just, uh, w we’ll we’ll have that conversation privately sometime. Um, all right. We’re back on the show. Very exciting to be here. This is obviously a bit of a transitional episode. Apparently from what I hear it, uh, this one may not go up on iTunes for a little while. So we have a new hosting site.

[06:46:00] People will be able to listen. Obviously, if you’re listening to this, you know that we’ll be sending that around. Eventually we’re going to have a set up just like we used to have on iTunes. Just might take a show or two, just to get that little bit of programming note out of the way, what we’re independent now.

I don’t see that really changing too much. I feel like. You know, I I’m just going to be honest. I still, I really do look at the world through the lens of a lot of DRF stuff, uh, that hasn’t been align all these years. We looking at a DRF formulator quite a bit, be looking at time, form us. It does open us up to be a little bit more Frank about some of the efforts, uh, our friends have going.

Um, and some of the other information out there, but. The only change. I think that’s going to come over time. I could see the show being a little bit more formalized into segments because when you have an independent podcast and now instead of having one sponsor, a patron really. Under the old [06:47:00] setup, we’re going to need sponsors for different segments.

So I could see being a little bit more regimented, but I definitely don’t want to lose the free flowing nature of the show because I think that’s part of what’s great about podcasts and part about what makes this show fun. We’ll have our little production meeting in the middle of the show. Now those aren’t going anywhere.

Have you given any thought JK about ways that you want the show to be the same or ways that you want the show to change? No. I mean, I think I’ll definitely, probably still, you know, have the mute button mistakes. I don’t think that’s going to change. Um, it almost happened there, but I was, that was quick, quick on the draw to get it fixed.

No, I kind of, I actually envisioned it the same way you did without us talking about it. Just having a little bit more, some more segments, some, uh, some opportunities probably to, uh, To look, to try to do some like sponsored pick fours and, and, uh, you know, maybe some pick five, carry over, pick six, carry over things we could maybe reach out and, and talk with some people about some opportunities.

We’ve got pretty good relationships with a [06:48:00] lot of racetracks and a lot of marketing guys. So I would imagine there’d be an opportunity there and then, uh, you know, keeping it the same way and whatever we do. I do know that. Pete and I both won’t, uh, uh, although some people might not think that’s true, we’ll prevent, uh, we’ll prevent ourselves from becoming shills of, you know, you know, I don’t think we’re going to be, uh, you know, doing the rainbow six on a, on a, on a random Wednesday saying it’s the best bet.

No, you can’t. You can’t, you, even when you have sponsors, you and, and, you know, and I feel like we lived up to this throughout the DRF era. You can’t. You can’t shill for things that are false, you just lose all credibility. For example, here’s a perfect example. All those years, DRF and NTRA were partners.

And, you know, my job was largely to promote the NTRA. There’s a lot of things I love about the NTRA and the NHC. And I’m happy to talk about it. How it’s the coolest horseplayer party of the [06:49:00] year and something that I believe once you go to once you’re going to want to go to every year, I’m not going to go on there and say for the average player, it’s the best value situation in the world.

Because depending on what kind of player you are, you may find some great value in it, but you may not. And so I don’t want to ever come out and say things like you were perfect example about the rainbow situation, uh, on a non, uh, guaranteed payout day. You can’t be out there saying things like that. And, uh, but I don’t believe we ever, we ever did fall into that category, but of course, you know, somebody is always going to accuse you of something isn’t that right.

Yeah. There’s no doubt about that. Yeah. It’s funny. The, the, uh, there’s been some, like, you know, I’ve learned to not respond to the annoying stuff. I mean, I, unless I have like three or four, then, then maybe lots of. I’ve had my son pretty much nonstop since, since we made the transition away from the DRF players podcast.

And so, um, some of the tweets, I haven’t really been, I haven’t, haven’t tied one on yet, so to [06:50:00] have to battle with, you know, responding to the tweets. So, uh, and then the other thing is, is that I love it. I joked about it before. Like, dude, you gotta have more than 300 followers from your response. Like I, I’m not, I’m not responding to you and giving you a platform when you have 300 followers and it’s not really your picture on your avatar.

Right? Avatar. That’s the word I was looking for? Port lesson. It seems like you finally, internalized JK is not to feed the trolls, but I will also say this, the positive to negative feedback at this point. If the people I’ve talked to both publicly and privately 999, supportive to one, and if nobody hates you.

You’re doing something wrong. Oh yeah. Here’s the thing, Pete. You and I both have, uh, we, we frequent racetracks and, um, you know, I’ve been to a random restaurant in Austin and someone said something to me about the show. We get so much positive. Positive bless you out the year. Yeah, I got the little one was, he was a boy.

He was a, he was a [06:51:00] sneezy mess last night. Um, but the, the, um, the, you know, the positive stuff we get throughout the year and I wasn’t really worried about it. I just, sometimes I like to get into little beefs with people. It’s you hard to imagine? Hard to imagine. J K I a you’re you’re always known to be a diplomat who, uh, who’s quiet and reserved and doesn’t get into fist fights at Churchill downs.

I didn’t get into a fist fight. We’ll leave that to me. We told that story on the old show, you can find it in the archives. Probably the show. I don’t know if we got to it, the show after the Derby, but maybe one after that, um, we have all these great questions stored up. I think we should wait. On them though, JK until we get a little bit more ground under us, I thought it was really important to do a show today, but it is Christmas Eve.

So I think we’re going to keep this short, let’s talk a little bit about what the show is. I would imagine somebody going to find us for the first time today [06:52:00] and want to check it out. Um, we’re still going to be doing two shows a week. A Tuesday show. Typically, obviously this week, a little different with the holiday and sometimes our travel plans will be different typically Tuesday and Friday, I think we’re going to let the live show slide because I’ve learned to edit and I, once you have that, Club in your bag.

You want to use it? There’s just a lot of things. Look, I’m not going to clean up everything. I want to keep the feel of the show, but once you learn to do that, there’s just some things that you can make into a more pleasant audio experience for the listener. And that’s the direction I want to go. So I think we’ll just end up posting at the same time every week.

I suppose we could get it. If we start recording a little earlier. Well, let’s just tentatively say. We’re going to try to have shows up and available to listen to by noon on Tuesday and Friday, the Tuesday shows typically are going to be recaps of what’s been going [06:53:00] on in racing, um, issues of the day specific stakes racing recaps.

And occasional questions from listeners that’s been great and something we’re so grateful to our listeners for all the great feedback that gets provided, but also very specifically the questions that get asked, essentially, we let you produce the show on a regular basis. The Friday shows. Typically we’ll look forward.

Uh, I think as much as ever more than ever, maybe we’ll try to have some guests in on Friday to specifically help with the prognostication of the races element frequently. We’ll have guests on Tuesday as well. I think those will be more of the. Just talk to people about their life variety in general issues in the game, like the recent conversations with, uh, Richard Migliori and Barbara Livingston, uh, that we posted in the last few weeks, what am I missing?

What else do we do on that? [06:54:00] Talk a lot of strategy stuff. I think it’s important, obviously. Um, I think you covered everything though. I mean, yeah. I think, I think some of the most fun shows that I remember us having. Or with the guests, you know, some of our we’ve been very fortunate to, to, you know, being with DRF and then the, the, all the writing that you’ve done for tournaments to really ask some really cool and enlightening guests on to talk about what some of the things that they do.

So I think that’s one thing that we’ll always continue to do. And, um, And, uh, and possibly even be able to branch out a little bit more and do some to some more things with some more people. Yes. And tournaments. Somebody asked a very good question about if tournament coverage was still going to be on the docket.

And the answer is absolutely legitimately view tournaments as being a huge part of the future of the game. We’re obviously involved with the world. Horseplayer store more news on that as it comes down the line, but. The idea of having players on to talk about. And also, I still think I want to keep a written [06:55:00] element.

We’ve got a blog. In the money that’s up and running. That might be a good place to continue to have some chats with HorsePlayers and it can be a little bit looser formatted than at DRF where it really had to follow kind of a strict template. Um, I definitely see. More written content happening there.

And I also have conceived the idea, but I needed some time to think about it a little more. And we’ll talk about this one. We’ll have a production meeting off-air about almost putting together a newsletter, uh, connected with this podcast. And with that in the money podcast blog, where. We aggregate some of the most interesting stories, podcasts, whatever we’re hearing out there in the world under one umbrella, and that could perhaps live on the blog, but also maybe we’ll get people to sign up and send that directly to your inbox as well.

I would take the [06:56:00] lead on that JK, but is it something you’d be willing to help with? Pete I’ll help you with anything except for moving. I don’t help people move. Um, if you need my help moving, I’ll give you a hundred dollars. You can put that towards getting movers. Um, I just, that’s the, I think that’s the worst thing in the world to ask someone to do is to help you move.

Um, I just, I try not to, I try not to be asked to do it. I hate it. It’s the worst. Fair. At least you’re honest, you know, I I’d much rather that than just get a litany of excuses from you. Uh, you know, you’ve got to, you’re filling, fell out, you know, whatever you can’t help that day. I’d much rather, you just be honest about where, where your boundaries for friendship are.

And I’m glad that helping out with the potential newsletter falls on the right side of the line, we could also be. Looking to loyal listeners. We have so many good listeners out there to be eyes and ears. Let’s say we were to do some sort of weekly newsletter, a blog that put together the best stuff that had been written that week.

I could, I would imagine folks like, uh, [06:57:00] Jean, uh, our, our quiz champion and drew, who was on the show and Matt and people like Eric Bilich by the way, how terrible was it of us JK that we did that Christmas quiz episode and didn’t find any love, uh, for our friends, Eric Bilich and Sean Borman. How did neither of those guys get a call?

The EBA. Should’ve got one for sure. Sean, Sean coulda got one too, but Eby for sure. Such a map help. Uh, he probably deserves some, grab a call. The question would have been somewhere along the lines of, uh, Of, uh, uh, you know, something with, with helping JK with math for next year, I’m already starting to think of more quiz questions.

That was a big enough hint, despite the funny circumstances of the show that I think we will be reviving that concept. So start thinking out there, start going back and listening to the archive. If you want to participate in next year’s holiday quiz, those episodes, by the way, are still up there. You can find them on iTunes and the old, uh, DRF.

Feed and maybe on our [06:58:00] blog, I’ll put a link where we can find them. Sean Borman though, did get his revenge on me for not being included in the show. He pointed out a mistake that I made JK, um, regarding the show I described the haberdasher as someone who makes hats a haberdasher makes men’s clothing, a milliner makes hats.

So there’s a little bit of overlap. Like I could almost try to claim a little bit of credit in that. A hat, especially the hats I wear. It is an article of men’s clothing, but the way I specifically described it on the show party foul. But the reason I bring all these people up, who we’re fortunate to have as listeners is I could see them helping point us slash me to some really cool content from anywhere out there.

Now in the horse racing world, it could be a discussion on the third graph message board, or it could be. On the blood horse or the TDN or the DRF, and to be able to put the best stuff in one place, uh, [06:59:00] that could be really cool. So just, just an idea, I’m kicking the tires on, you can let me know what you think of that.

If you have an opinion. And if there’s one thing I know about our listeners, they have a lot of opinions. Okay. For sure. That’s why they got themselves involved in this game. It’s the game of my opinion is better than yours. And I made the Twain quote before. That’s the one of the best Twain quotes ever.

It, we’re not best that we should all think alike. It is difference of opinion that makes horse races. And with that in mind, we’re going to pivot to talk about opening day at Santa Anita, a stakes studded card, and it all kicks off. J K with race number four. What are you thinking? The, you know, look, this is one of my favorite days of the year.

It’s always a lot of fun. There’s always some fun maidens. I remember the factor broke his maiden at Santa Anita opening day. One time when I was out here. Um, you always, the, the maiden races here are always fun. The stakes races are always fun. The Malibu, one of my favorite races all [07:00:00] year, uh, the first race, I think the stake is in race for, uh, it’s not going to be connected to the, uh, to the pick six, however, you know, the early pick five, which is always, always a staple out in Southern California.

There’s a horse, uh, on the rail Amandine uh, for Jeff Mons, it ran pretty well. Last time had a little bit of a setup. I’m going to go with the more for type and that’s the three miss bad behavior. I thought she ran really well. Last time. Get to Joel Rosario, the switch from, from Bejarano to Joel Rosario.

Um, she’s never not been in the exact, uh, It’s Santa Anita. She’s run there. Six times. She’s won twice. Ran second, four times. I think she’ll get her trip. She’ll be there when they turn for home. And as long as the pace doesn’t get too quick, I think she’ll be able to finish. If you’re looking for a little bit more of a price, uh, take a look at the six X S gold for Jim Cassidy.

Uh, Kent DeSorbo rode the horse last time down at Del Mar. Um, ran really pretty, pretty well in that spot. You know, it was one by four links, kind of sweep the field. Um, I think that one could come running late if it, [07:01:00] if it’s, you know, if it quick ends up a little bit, but, uh, the three miss bad behavior is the one that I don’t want to build around.

I wouldn’t completely fade the one horse down the inside for Jeff Mullins, but you know, from a selection standpoint, I’m going to go with the three horse Ms. Behavior. The fifth is a maiden race. You have any quick thoughts about this one? I don’t want to hold your feet to the fire. If you haven’t thoroughly looked yet.

Yeah. W you know, we talk about it. Um, uh, DRF is going to have a workout report. It’s actually already up. I got a peek at that one. Um, I myself have always preferred, uh, the Andy Harrington clocker report. It’s the he’s there. He’s, he’s, he’s been there. He’s been doing it for a long time. I like to look at both of them.

I prefer to have both. If I was going to have to pick one, it would be the end of Harrington one. Um, but I like to look at both. They both provide good information. Uh, uh, so Andy’s re workout report. Doesn’t come out until like nine o’clock Eastern the night before the races. So you’ll have to check that out, uh, on Christmas Eve on Christmas night.

Um, but one of the horses that [07:02:00] I’ve been following the horse ran really well at low Sal and the slop. Uh, really well, I mean, ran well enough was supposed to run Willy well was mole, Mississippi, uh, for Peter Earnin. I’m gonna, I’m going to lean back on that horse here. Obviously we got to see what the Baffert workout reports are going to be on.

All good. Who’s a half to plump, pretty who won the Kentucky Oaks and then scalper for Speedway. Speedway’s that stable, uh, that, that I believe had collected. So they’ve they’ve, they’ve got a good run. Good thing going with Bob Baffert scalper could be the real deal. Baffert always saves one for opening day, a real talented freaky one.

And so that’s the only concern I have with moments, Mississippi. All right. You know, I should have given you a shout out. Very fun thing about the last show that we did the final show on the DRF feed claps to you for going out a winner. I mean an eight to five shot, but Hey, to me, an eight to five shot that wins like a one to five shots.

Actually represents pretty great value. Were you able to make any hay with that in real life? Seven to two morning lines. So it wasn’t too, too kitchen [07:03:00] chalky. Here’s the thing. So we’re supposed to be flying all day Saturday. I won’t bore you with the whole traveling. World’s long story short. My dad had a confirmed ticket.

He didn’t want to fly alone. Me and Austin were standby. So we had to try to pair him up with us so we could get on the same flight. His flight was our flights were all disasters. We ended up scrapping the whole thing on Saturday. So I went and hung out with a bunch of high school friends. And I just didn’t, I wasn’t on my phone and I just wasn’t paying attention.

And one of my friends who knows I’m involved in the racing said, do you have any good bets today? And I said, I do. And I opened up my phone and they were crossing the wire. I’m dead serious. That’s exactly how it happened. And I was like, Oh geez, here we go. I did not get involved. Hopefully some listeners did.

And, uh, in any case, I thought that was nice. I know when, uh, When Dave Litwin left DRF. I remember noticing that his pick went out a winner and I, I noted that I don’t, I can’t remember if I mentioned it on the show, but I certainly noted it [07:04:00] in my mind. Guy who, you know, he was there for a long time to such a great job, such a great handicapper and somebody who I’ve learned so much, so much from over the years.

In fact, we should have him on the show at some point soon. Um, and I remember thinking how cool that was, that he went out of winter. Glad to see that we will really you, but I’ll ride the coattails on this one, followed in the old footsteps. Okay. JK, let’s move on. To the grade one, LaBrea one of the traditional featured races on Santa Anita opening day.

It goes as the sixth race to 15 local time. What’d you come up? I really liked Tom loop. I really like Phoenix, thoroughbreds. I really liked Bob Baffert and I, and I don’t mind Drayton van Dyke at all. I don’t know him personally, but I like. I, I I’ve never liked dream tree. I I’ve always tried to beat her.

She ran much better, uh, in the prior rest than I ever expected, she was going to run. Um, I was, I’d always had this idea that I was going to keep trying to beat her. Cause she was undefeated. I’m going to keep trying [07:05:00] to beat her. She’s going to be bet off the board. She’s obviously a very likely winner here, but I’m going to go with the three Kelly’s humor.

Uh, blinkers on the switch to Peter Miller, uh, that horse horses kind of in, against the track the last few times, not really where you want it to be. Um, I think she’ll come running late and happy, like a fool as the reason that I feel so comfortable with Kelly’s humor is, you know, happy like a fool is one of those quick Wesley ward types obviously can get out of the gate.

Well, has some nice early speech. She drew the rail. She’s got really only one way to go. I think she should cook things up a little bit. And, uh, and make them run a little bit quicker. And I’m hoping that it falls apart going seven with a lot of these fillies coming in, uh, you know, with, with different distance situations in their previous.

And I’m going to go with the three Kelly’s humorous eight to one in the morning line. Uh, I’m against embolden. If you look at the DRF workout report, not working well, Baffert horses don’t work bad and run. Well, it just doesn’t happen. That can happen. In other barns, you can see that C plus they’ll run through it.

Cheeky Barnes, especially, but Bob [07:06:00] Baffert is born. It doesn’t happen. If they worked bad, they run bad. Uh, and it makes a ton of sense why this filly shows up here, obviously she’s, she’s well bred. She’s a good dolphin type, getting her a grade one. Uh, and this can, you know, obviously in this race would be very, very important.

So she shows up here anyways, I’m going to go with the three Kelly’s humor, lots of good information there for a second. I thought you were trying to solicit our first sponsor with the Phoenix thoroughbred plug there. JK. Manage as much money as they send it to say, it’s been at the sale. They can throw us a couple of dollars getting there.

Let’s move on to the Mathis brothers mile. JK, how are we going to keep the good times rolling on Santa Anita opening day. I’m going to hop on this sun, uh, sort, sorta Frankel for Todd Pletcher and John Velasquez. And you do that horse, uh, obviously possesses a ton of speed, um, and, and is talented. Ran, you know, Randall well enough.

Um, throughout his career so far, usually it a little bit shorter, but obviously the flat mile on the nice I’m imagining that golf, that turf course is [07:07:00] going to look like a putting green out there. Uh, no one’s been on it for a long time. The rail will be down. I think you do could be loose in here. Now, look, he’s probably not going to be much value.

He’ll probably be seven to two, five to two, and then river Boyne will take a bunch of money. We’re Boyne was without a doubt. The most likely winter river Boyne is the most talented, the most consistent you look at all the ones in his, in his PPS from winning races and got beat last time by, by, uh, Bye Christina, Helmers, uh, raging bull, but, but, but the boy is obviously the most likely winner, but I’m going to go with Geetu a little bit.

And then the kind of interesting horse that I think I would try to hook up underneath, or if you feel for some reason that they could possibly fall apart. Um, I think combatant is interesting. Now the horses, you know, ran well. Uh, last time at Zia park ran a nice figure that day as, as, as, as you know, ran well enough, he ran well enough at Saratoga and the better talk now, uh, where he ran [07:08:00] forth, beaten a length, you know, it’s at East coast, not really an East coast turf horse, but he’s an East coast horse.

Who’s run on the turf and run well enough on the turf. And now he shows up here. Obviously train by, by Steve asked me to send you get Jose Ortiz. Um, I think combatant is a little bit interesting as a son of scat daddy, and we know what they’ll do, uh, on the Greenstone. Oh yeah. Uh, lots of a Royal Ascott form represented here actually on opening day, you mentioned happy like a fool in the last  in here.

And then of course, uh, uh, from a breeding standpoint, the scat daddy makes you think of ask it as well. Pretty interesting stuff. JK let’s move on to race eight, the San Antonio, as we had on to it’s the start of the late pick three, but it’s one of the final two races that we’ll be talking about. Two in the three, a battle of midway dApps there, obviously they, they, they were, uh, heading head there and the native diver as they turned for home and, and battled all the way through there.

And those two horses are probably the most likely winners. They have the fastest [07:09:00] figures. Uh, they’ve they’ve been the most accomplished. They ran well in the last race. Uh they’re they’re, they’re coming from the big connections with Hollendorfer and Baffert, uh, they’re going to get bet. I’m going to try to get cute with this tatters to riches.

Uh, that horse went on debut at Del Mar back in the day, obviously has had some issues throughout. Um, and now he shows up here, uh, blinkers on, um, and, and trying the mile and a 16th. Uh, the farthest he’s ever run one a mile. A couple of times the horse is extremely talented. I think the horse presents a lot of value because I think he’ll be ignored compared to the other two.

And so I’m going to try to try to hook up patters and riches in here. Okay. No love for gift box in the spot. No, the workout report. Wasn’t great. And I, I, uh, I don’t think that that, that bedding horses off of Chad Brown. Is necessarily, uh, uh, a remedy for success, you know, I mean, if there was something that can be done, Chad would probably have figured it out with him.

There’s now [07:10:00] no offense to John Sadler, who, who, uh, obviously costs me a lot of money in the nearest cup classic, but, but I just, and then the workout report that I’ve seen so far, the DRF workout report it isn’t loving how gift boxes going. Um, so. That’s another reason to check out the other workout reports that are available to kind of compare it’s obviously an opinion-based, uh, report.

So, you know, see, let’s see what the other ones say, but no, not, not so much gift box for me. I think one of those, one of those two favorites will be probably the most likely winners, but I think tatters to Rich’s private prisons to the most makes sense. Let’s go on to the Malibu the days other grade one seven furlongs race nine, 4:00 PM.

Pacific. What are your thoughts? I had to bring an extra, an extra bag. I checked the bag for the first time, because I needed to make sure that this time, when I came out to California, I had my silver wig. You know, it has its own little case, a little traveling case. So I wanted to make sure I had it. Uh, he, he it’s, it’s like a Chad Brown turf race.

You got four Baffert [07:11:00] entered in here. Um, I only want two of them and that’s a, a McKinsey. Uh, interesting. Draw the cut back, you know, he stretched. And then, uh, when he ran him on one of his best numbers, he ever ran was his debut when he went, when he was going seven. So the seven is not going to be an issue for him for these talented types.

I think that he could be extremely dangerous. He’s going to probably be the favorite. He’ll be a very short price, uh, drawn outside. Mike Smith should be able to do whatever he needs to do with McKinsey, but let’s not forget how good Axe man was. For a small period of time. Uh, obviously things went the wrong direction with him.

He had a little bit of a break. I think he’s back now. He’s got a ton of speed. I, the seven could be right for him as well. Um, those are the only two I want. Uh, the workout reports so far seems to like ax man a little bit. We’ll see what the other ones say. McKinsey is always going to probably having a nice workout.

She’s just a talented horseshoe who went off. I, I believe if he wasn’t favored, he was very close to being favored and the breeders come classic off of his [07:12:00] performance and the Pennsylvania Derby. Those are the only two that I want. I think a lot of people might fall for the Niro thing. He’s too much of a, of a cookie guy for me.

I won’t make fun of you, Pete, if you pick seven trumpets and I’ll be rooting for actual, I’ll be rooting, I’ll be voting for ag. So rod, um, I feel like he wants further. But I don’t have any reason to believe that or that I, that I know that that’s true. Um, but I, you know, I think that he could present a little bit of value.

Um, and, and there’s one more, I’ll just say, and, and, and I don’t mind throwing out another horse. I’ve said like four horses names, but, um, obviously just using ax, man, and McKinsey is my, is my main presses here. Uh, but still having fun, ran a huge race. Uh, in the Woody Stevens. And let’s not forget that if this thing finds a way to fall apart, this is a horse that can close a little bit.

You get Kent, DeSorbo kind of the trip. You could see kit, you know, blowing up. Everybody’s picked six, come running late on the outside and snapping McKinsey [07:13:00] and ax man in the lane. Uh, still having fun could be ignored on the West coast and he could be a little bit of a good price. I do like seven trumpets again here.

I haven’t fully done the work on this, obviously, why I’m letting you talk the whole time today about these, uh, picks. But this is a horse who just, um, you know, basically have the proverbial contract with at this point based on some of the prior efforts and, you know, the, uh, wind might be out of reach, but very interesting vertical underneath key.

Couple of questions for you about Axman man. The first. The fact that he’s a first time gelding, how much does that add to his appeal to you? Yeah. And you know, it’s not funny. You don’t really see Baffert age. I got such expensive horses. It’s not a thing that you see very often, uh, often for him. So, um, you know, it’s, it’s, you know, probably suggest that whatever was going wrong with him had to do.

Um, had to do with, with, with, with something that, you know, relating to, uh, uh, the, the man part, she didn’t what the mind or [07:14:00] the manufacturer it’s one or the other, I guess you’d just call them the Colt parts. Aren’t the horse part, Nicole cold parts. Yeah. But, um, you know, from all accounts working well now, um, talented horse, you know, talented, talented horse that, uh, that really made a lot of noise.

Remember he ran on the undercard in front of justify and Randy huge, huge figure. Uh, ran really good that day blew those horses away. So it’s definitely, I wouldn’t take it as a negative. I was taking as a positive, I would take it as I would take it as that narrative build that we talk about. When you start at the bottom of the PPS, you know, he runs the big number.

Then he gets thrown into the stakes company and kinda does it run well, uh, gets a break, comes back, wins, wins, and then go kind of goes, sour gets along, break, comes back with no man parts. And now you think that that’s the reason. That the break had to happen. And, um, and, and hopefully those issues have been resolved.

And according to the workouts, he he’s, he’s traveling in the right direction. Now you can be honest and admit that [07:15:00] the real reason you like Axe, man, is those silks with the Longhorn right on there? Well, it doesn’t hurt. It doesn’t hurt at all. Um, it does definitely. It definitely doesn’t hurt, uh, one bit, and I will say this, this is one of those moments where you get some, uh, It’s not that it’s not true.

I believe we’ve hinted at it a long time. We’ve just never said it out loud. So if you, if you weren’t picking up the clues, now you can get it, go to XB TV and watch Axman work and, and, and, and, and learn more about what it is that you’re looking at when it comes to horse flesh. If they’re running, if they’re working in company, Is, it’s really easy to get an idea of what’s going on with a horse.

It’s harder when they’re by themselves. If you don’t know what you’re looking at, but if they’re in-company you just look at the jockeys hands and SBTV does a great job with a lot of their videos of showing these workouts. And I think that, uh, I would imagine that they’ll have some of ax man’s last few works.

So you can put your eyes on him rather than just looking at the. Numbers on the bottom of the PPS or the words that someone else wrote and a workout report you mentioned [07:16:00] SBTV because I did have on my list of things to talk about, probably the last thing we’ll talk about as time is ticking on this Christmas Eve, uh, the changes at Santa Anita, I’m going to start off with the positive, which is it is going to be great to get, to watch our pal Frank Mir Mati fulfill his dream of being the Santa Anita track announcer for this meat.

That is absolutely fantastic. In my view, you know, I’m somebody, I think who typically will hold two thoughts in their head at the same time, more than some, I think that’s, uh, something that I, uh, have a decent amount of skill when it comes to that. But it’s also okay to feel bad for Michael Rona and the way that that all went down.

We never talked about it on the show, just because we’ve been so busy with other things that wasn’t by design. Uh, some of the changes there do seem less than positive and make you wonder what’s going on. Um, especially on the X PTV side. Um, but it is what it is, and it [07:17:00] doesn’t prevent me from being very happy for Frank.

How cool is it going to be, will you go visit him? Will you watch a race in the booth with him on opening day or when he has an opportunity will during your visit to California? Absolutely. Um, absolutely. Frank is, uh, I, I, no, let me back up. I loved Michael Rona. I thought he did a great job. Um, um, I think that Michael’s been, he was always very nice to us.

He would always come down to the Logan after, after race, after calling races and, um, great, great. He was, he was, he was great. I, it was almost to a certain point. I almost kind of giggled at one of the lines in the press release about wanting someone to interact with the fans. Obviously, Frank’s going to be great at that.

I’m going to praise him in a couple seconds, but Michael did that. He, I mean, he made my mom feel great. One time, he just talked to my mom for 15, 20 minutes and she just thought he was the greatest thing in the world now. I will say that. And I will say this. I was, I was at Monmouth [07:18:00] park when, at the beginning of Frank and I’s relationship and I texted him asking for pizza advice and he said, don’t do anything, send me your address.

And he sent, he got the pizza and had it delivered to the hotel I was staying at. Frank’s an amazing man. He’s, he’s unbelievably funny. Uh he’s he he’s encouraging. He’s uh, he’s, he’s great. He’ll do great in that job. And I’m very, very happy for him, but I agree with you. Uh, you know, sorry that someone adds to, to be on the bad end of that, and really sorry that it had to be someone that I like and admire, and Michael Rona after, especially what they went through.

I mean, it really was always a question. The question being who should be the Santa Anita track announcer that had to right answers, right. But after that whole audition, which must’ve been very taxing, just doesn’t feel great, but you know, there’ve been changes at higher levels at Santa Anita and people responsible for that.

Presumably aren’t there now. And anyway, it’s, it’s a bit of a mess. It [07:19:00] needed to be acknowledged on the show. Do you have another quick thought on it? Two things, I’ll say one thing, then I’ll pivot to one more thing. So what happened? Just so people that don’t know is the management changed the manager that made the decision about Franklin and Michael.

Is not there anymore. And so that decision was made and that’s why it seems so weird, but that’s why they had the competition. There was a decision made and then this happened it’s, it’s the change in management, which, which happens at Stronick from time to time. I will say this. I’ve seen a lot of people cash in this roulette.

Bet. You know, essentially what it is is, is, is, is they’re gonna, they’re gonna pull horses as red. They’re gonna pool a couple of horses as black. And some long shots as green. And so a novice or new player can come in and just pick red, black or green and, and, and play like that, where they only have three options.

A lot of people think that, you know, that it’s it’s, it’s not good. I’ve heard a lot of people talk about it. Not being good. I actually think it’s great. And let me tell you why. I think it’s great. It’s [07:20:00] because no, it is not the answer that saved racing, but it is the answer. That is less intimidating for a new player.

It is, it is, it is less defeating for a new player and it keeps that new player coming back. I don’t care if new guy puts a hundred in the wind pool, so I get better odds. I don’t care about that. I want new guy to have a good time. And turn into the guy that puts a thousand dollars in the wind pool in our game, the entry to our game is so complicated that we don’t hook the hundred dollar guy and turn them into a thousand dollar guy.

And I think that bets like this can hook a hundred dollar guy and turn him into a thousand dollar guy. If there’s a new game in Vegas and you walked by it and you put a hundred dollars down and you lose your 130 seconds, you’re not coming back. But if you go to the game and you play for three hours, you get a bunch of free drinks.

You sit next to a pretty girl, suddenly you’re, you’re back the next day, playing that [07:21:00] game. And that’s how I feel about this roulette thing. It’s not the answer, but it’s something that could keep people playing and then they learn and they love, and then they come back and then they start. Reading books and playing pick fours, and now we can take their money.

You know what I mean? Like, I don’t understand why people get so upset about innovation. Like you make some great points and I’m in the camp of holding out judgment, Steve Beck. And I talked about this on, at the race as he, uh, at like many do was cynical. And I understand some of the cynicism, but for me, The key thing here is if it can be that experience that you’re describing.

Great. I worry that if these are small pools that computer betting players have access to, if there ever was any value in it, you’re going to see it just like quickly drained. But, and it’s not the value that really bothers me. It’s. The price changing. I feel like [07:22:00] if you want to market to your customer, your a hundred dollars customer JK, you need.

Fix the hots for something like this. I just think it anti markets, us between our already high takeout and then those odds changes. I just feel like it could be doomed from that point of view of like, I just think it’s going to be so hard to talk to sports betting types and say to them, Oh, when you know, you’re getting even money on this proposition.

Wait a second. It’s one to two. And I, that makes a ton of sense. You’re you’re a hundred percent right about that. That’s not right. Going to be good. And so, I mean, if you could do, if you could somehow do this bat as super low takeout as, um, big Stoddard’s, if you could make that happen, maybe you don’t, let’s see RWS play in this pool.

I mean, that’s another possibility if you just keep it really small, but I mean, the fact is if the pools, the pools are going to be so small that the odds [07:23:00] changes. I just think it might be a problem. It’s something to look out for. Um, I do believe there are technological solutions out there. Of course.

Seems unlikely given some of the resistance we’ve seen to updating the tote system that, uh, it’s going to happen over this. But anyway, that’s my sort of counter-argument but I’m absolutely okay. Seeing what happens and withholding judgment for bit. Yeah. I think that, I think that we we’ve we’ve uncovered a thing that we’ll talk about throughout the show is it’s it’s it probably is coming.

It’s probably an incomplete thought. Right. Like, it’s probably like, it’s, it’s, I think it’s barking up the right tree, but there’s probably a lot of holes that I’m going to predict that they didn’t fill. Um, and, and keeping it from, you know, getting, being a problem and keeping it positive as it can be. The other thing is like, you know, who who’s, who’s doing the pairings and why, and how are they doing them?

Are they making them fun and interesting and dynamic? Or are they just kind of, is it. You know that that’s going to matter as [07:24:00] well too. I think what the pairings of the other groupings of the red, black, and green, it’ll be interesting to see. We’ll talk about that more, but we are over time. My friend. On this very first edition of the, in the money players podcast.

I want to thank you JK for taking time away from your family during this time a year, especially you have, uh, you, you have done me a real solid here helping out keeping things moving seamlessly. And I very much. Appreciate that. I also want to thank, uh, somebody who I reached out to, uh, hadn’t talked to in a while and was able to help out with the logistics of this show.

Uh, he’s a man who never plays the full. Producer, DJ unstable. Thank you very much, DJ. And most of all, I want to thank all of you for listening, especially all of you who checked out our last show and then came right back for this show. Very much. Appreciate the support. Keep it coming. We’re [07:25:00] going to keep posting.

You’re going to keep listening. It’s going to be a lot of fun. Check us out also in the money I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. We will be back on Friday. One more thing for you, JK. You said you’d do anything, but help me move. Will you help me fill out my eclipse ballot on the next year? Absolutely. I have the paperwork ironically, in my bag. I’m ready to go. I love it. We will get that taken care of. We’ll be back later in the week. May you win all your photos.

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