Show #21 – Monday, March 4 (Kim Weir of TRF, Eric Guillot)

***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

You’re listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the, and the money players podcast. This is show number 21. We are recording it on Monday, March 4th, a snow day here in New York, New York schools closing. It was announced yesterday. And of course there was then no snow, pretty much, no snow, not really, even exaggerating.

Didn’t have to shovel a lot of silliness and extra childcare, but Hey. It’s a snow day parents. Very excited. She’s upstairs watching a show. Listen for the interruption. I’ll leave it in. If she comes down. I am joined here today in the Brooklyn bunker by the man, the myth, the legend TVs, Jonathan Kenshin the people’s champion JK.

What’s up. What’s going on. I’m uh, I wasn’t on this weekend, but I watched the show other than did a great job. And coverage is always good. It’s uh, it’s fun to watch. It’s a lot less stressful to watch too, when you’re not did Acacia make it to Florida? I heard she, it sounds so much worse than it is. She was in a plane crash, but what happened was the planes were on the runway and one plane bumped.

Another it’s nothing like horrific, but it did. Did she make it to the show on time? She did. I wonder if that guy has fired the guy that did the bumper, I’m going to think. So that’s a tough one to come back from. He definitely had to do a drug test. I’m sure. But, um, no, I, that, that would, that’d be a little terrifying.

She did make it. I actually almost sent a joke to the powers that be like, you know, if you guys send a private jet, I’ll get to Florida before she will. I was, I was going to possibly go to Florida. Just didn’t work out with the schedule. So when are you on next? I definitely say an Anita for the studio on March 16th and then not sure about this weekend.

I think Lafayette is going to be at Tampa. Um, I was gonna, I was a possible to go along with him, which would have been fun. Got the hangout would have been able to hang out with, uh, the King of Tampa, uh, rich, April Richie, rich, w who will have on the show at some point. But, um, uh, maybe even this week, actually since Tampa Bay is.

Yeah. Good idea. Let’s let’s do that production meeting in the middle of the show. Absolutely. I was looking forward to getting there, but maybe somewhere this weekend is I’m not sure yet. Okay. I would like to see you in Tampa though. Then again, I get a little bit of host envy. You hanging out with like a proper broadcaster.

I get a little, like, I don’t know. He’s not going to need me anymore. He gonna going to replace me on my own show. Reminds me of my, my favorite story at the, at the old place where briefly this new production guy came in and it’s a story that I love. And Eddie says, I love the show. I’m like, that’s great to hear like any constructive criticism, any changes you might want to make.

And he said, yeah, I want to change the name. And I think we need a new host. This actually happened. I’m afraid you’re going to do the same thing. And it’s going to be, Laffite sitting here instead of me, JK. Well, we’ve, we’ve often joked that, uh, the TV show w with people, when we have conversations about, Hey, look, if you want to kick me and Pete out, you think there’s someone better?

We’re not married to it. Let’s get this idea of rocking stuff. We’ll feed. And Paula Duka on the world, horse players tour. I mean, Hey, you know, if the check is big enough, I’m I’ll, I’ll, I’ll sit over there in the director chair on the sidelines. It’s okay. Um, let’s move on JK, couple of things I want to talk about before we get to our two fantastic guests.

First up in a little bit, we’re going to have Kim Weir of the thoroughbred retirement foundation. She is going to become a regular guest. We’ve got a mission JK and it’s to raise money for TRF in that chat with Kim. I start talking about how we’re going to do that. Listen for that. And then in honor of Mardi Gras, which is tomorrow.

Eric  will be joining us. What a hoot. That will be another great programming decision by you, by the way. Eric  is one of the funniest people in racing. He’s the type of person that, uh, when you’re lucky enough to be where he is in person, everyone just kind of stands around and lets him go and let, and he is, uh, he is funny without a doubt and would be fun to have him on.

I was going to say, wind him up and let him go. There’s no wind up. He just, he arrives in full Energizer bunny mode. So it’s, it’s uh, th there might be some editing challenges we may have, uh, Tommy mastisis record for swearing on the podcast may be broken over the course of the next hour, but I will take that stuff out for the listeners.

You never know. He might get the subdued version of Yale, a word on the streets. Is he just put a full on the grounds. Oh, uh, he’s probably a little bit tired if you can remember those days. Oh yeah, not too. It wasn’t that long ago. Let’s talk about this fountain of youth. Uh, amazing race, really interesting.

I thought, and going in and going out prompted some interesting, I’m going to say reactions on Twitter, but let’s just start off by giving props to the winner identified here. I might add on the, in the money players podcast at nine to one of code of honor, the work tab for me was the key thing, as we talked about, it was aggressive, especially given the hands he’s in and it did show that he really has in fact trained on.

Now figure wise came back at a 95. It was what can pretty much only be described as a perfect trip. But I will say this. He was close enough to the teeth of the very hot paste, coded red throughout that end, the move he made was, uh, appealing enough and race. He enough making that sort of knifing move down on the inside.

I think this is a serious horse. 95 buyer speed figure is not going to be winning the Kentucky Derby this or any year. But I think this is a nice horse and I am, I do think there could be more under the hood. What about UGK? No, this is one of those races where it feels like should reminded you why he’s a hall of Famer.

And, and that happens every so often and racing where these, these, these, uh, historic trainers who we often dismiss a little bit too quickly come back and bite us. And I think he did with code of honor, who, who just didn’t really have an excuse and the mucho macho man. So I wasn’t really expecting a turnaround here, obviously.

I think it needs to be said, and let’s be very clear when it comes to him and bourbon war. Both of the horses got to set up code of honor was a little bit closer than bourbon. War was a lot closer. It wasn’t me. No, you’d like three first and second call about three or four links off three links off, not, I mean, you know, there’s still a little bit of a difference.

I mean, a lot of people are going to be wanting to bet bourbon wore off of that performance. It was nice. He came running late, but he got to set up, um, an unbelievably fast paced. Uh, one 66, one 66, one 40 early time form us pace figures, all three early fractions coded in red. I mean, hidden scroll, set an unbelievably fast paced and set it up for code of honor bourbon war.

In fact of those three horses, like I kinda want McComb out of that spot. He was actually closer. He was kind of in no man’s land stuck in between us hidden scroll started to open up a little bit. Uh, he’s the one that I think I would want moving forward. Interesting. I, I agree with you about bourbon war.

Getting a setup honor code obviously did as well, but yeah, being, being a few lengths closer and moving really, it’s less the links closer and more like he’s he made a move into what was still to me, the teeth of that pace. So I’m not downgrading con code of honor. The way that I’m downgrading bourbon war.

And I think the time form figures are fascinating to look at the adjusted for pace ones, you know, who comes out best in the race. When you look at those JK, I’m sure you do, and scroll and scroll one 20 and the winter having a one 18 bourbon war one 15, but coma one 15. Another thing that I think we should probably do is set an over under on how many times on this Derby trail, we are going to call a code of honor.

Honor code. Did I do it? You didn’t want it? I wasn’t gonna stop you cause it’s gonna be a fun game now. I can’t believe I got, I got it. All right, I’ll leave it in. I’m going to vow to not make that mistake again. JK. We’ll see if I can live up to it. Pretty funny stuff, hidden scroll. I did not understand the level of.

Troll Llinas that was going about this horse before, during or after the race. I mean, I did a write-up for our friends over it at the races, and I said, I’m not going to be betting on him today. And he’ll probably be over bet, but gee, am I looking forward to watching this exciting horse run? If you believe in speed figures at all, he’d flashed so much talent.

And to me. He did absolutely nothing to make me feel bad about him. You watch that head-on it was hard to see the way that, uh, The way the camera was positioned behind the gate at the break, but on the head-on, he broke very poorly into a horse and kind of had a little stumble. And I wonder if that didn’t light him up and was part of the reason why he was so aggressive.

Let’s just say this. If it’s a tactical decision to go chase the 150 to one shot, uh, wasn’t a very good tactical decision, but you know, I don’t want to spend a lot of time criticizing jockeys here because. I don’t really know what happened, but it obviously was not ideal tactics and to cut out fractions like those very, very impressive in a horse.

Again, given the hands he’s in, they can get them to relax a little bit early. You can ration out that speed more. That was the effort that looked like the Derby winner potentially to come out of that race of I’m being totally honest, a hundred percent. I think that he was remarkable in defeat. Um, a couple of things to unpack there first.

Well, we’ve we say it all the time on this show. We, we cannot, I cannot be mad at Joel Rosario for being aggressive. When I get mad at him, the race before for being passive on jaywalk, right. Or two or three races before it’s so hypocritical, I’m not allowed to do that. However, I can criticize Joelle in the sense that I feel he is.

Like, you know, very similar to Kennedy’s hormo, but for different reasons, he’s brilliant at times. And at times he does things that make me scratch my head. It doesn’t make me question him. It doesn’t make me say that he’s an idiot or he’s. It just makes me say, Oh, Joelle did. Did you not see the same thing I saw on paper?

Or, or why did that decision happen with that said I’ve made a bad decision yesterday and the pick five, not using so-and-so like it it’s a game full of mistakes. I’m not going to knock them for that. That’s my Joelle’s spiel. Um, when it comes to hidden scroll and, and your, your point of people being very trollie about him you’re right.

I it’s one of those deals where when. When a new song comes out or new album comes out and there’s a song on there. That’s not the single and you fall in love with it. And then that song becomes a single and then it starts to ignore you that other people like it. It’s that same mindset that happened with big horses who run big on debut.

It’s like if no one else knew that he ran huge, there wasn’t, you know, speed figures. You knew he ran a one Oh seven buyer speed figure. But no one else knew it. You’d be just as happy to love them. You’re just frustrated that people that you don’t think are worthy of their opinions, not worthy like the horse too.

And so then you want to get all bent out of shape. It’s all of that science wrapped into one. I got some flack, not much for when I said I’m blindly betting the horseback here. Here’s what I mean by blindly betting. The horseback is based on everything I know about racing to this point. Hidden scroll is very likely being beaten, forth, everyone using the silliest word and racing, bounce.

All of these reasons. He is not going to be as short as I believe his last performance deserves that he’ll be. And I will build tickets around him being singled in, in pick four, pick five situations. Now, obviously if improbable gets on the plane and comes down to South Florida and runs in the race, it’s going to tell him to change.

In my opinion, if he draws the rail or 14 out of 14 minute change, in my opinion, I’m just, it’s a it’s Twitter and it’s just a statement. 14 seconds after the race was over. Don’t take it. So literally I want to add one nice word on Vakola, who I think Ray did as you pointed out, run very well and has every right.

I think, to improve for that experience. It’s an interesting group to keep an eye on the figure. Didn’t come back monstrously. Huge, but maybe that. Searching pace had something to do with it. Don’t give up on those horses for the Kentucky Derby. That’s that’s my, my biggest message coming out of that. Where do you think hidden scroll will go next JK?

I think that’s probably the interesting point and I think that. You know, these trainers, these, we talked about these hall of fame trainers. Baffert Chad, Todd, mot, you know, all these guys. Um, I think what they’re they, their decision typically gives you the answer that you’re looking for. If, if hidden scroll.

Like gets on a plane and go someone else somewhere else. There’s a story there. I don’t know what it is, but, um, you know, maybe he didn’t like the track or maybe his something about gold street and hasn’t keyed up. Maybe they think that a so-and-so will help him. Maybe that mom thinks he needs easier. I think he’ll show up on the Florida Derby.

It makes sense to me, give him some time in between there. And what does he got four weeks until then? I believe for four or five weeks. So that seems like it should be the time that he needs. He ran a one 19 on debut. Wire to wire in a one 20 in a blistering fast paced and finished fourth beating beaten third by three horses that were coming from off of it.

A well off of it, seven, 10, eight links out of it. I mean, if the race completely fell apart, this is, this is like a typical palace malice bet back, um, you know, Liam’s map, but this is one of those races where they just went too fast and in a different situation, in a different setting. That won’t happen. He, you know, he might end up being loose next time.

You know, I, I remember reading back in the day and I there’s no science behind this, but it’s kind of like this, this alternating scenario thing on the Derby trail, it’s like, And especially in the, in the, um, and the triple crown as well is the race, whatever happened the race before expect the opposite.

So if the pace was like stupid fast and the Derby Preakness, it’s going to be slow. Yeah. The orb example that you brought up before is perfect, right? It was back and forth because people start, you know, look, Joelle is going to get roasted for like a week and a half because of the ride. So Louis Saya is, uh, Herminio Hernandez, Iran, Gianni.

They all follow that. So when the, when the Florida Derby comes around, there’s no way they’re going to get stuck into a duel and get roasted for two weeks on social media and in the media like that. So I just think that there’s a, you know, a natural way that it flips. Um, just based on what happened the race before, I’m sure mom wants the horse to be able to relax too.

That’s the other thing, which is a little bit interesting in terms of tactics the next time, but I imagine, you know, that’s an issue that’s going to be addressed in, in workouts and, and we’ll see, it’d be great to see him deliver based on the talent we’ve seen so far. I think he’s, I think he’s a really cool horse.

I’ll need to watch it again, but I don’t think he was like a, necessarily an all-out runoff. I thought Joel, kind of his head and kind of it wasn’t a rice. I can’t describe it as a run. I feel like something is connected to that weird break though. Did you notice that? Yeah, he kind of was, he kind of broke a little bit and then Joelle probably had to send them out of there.

I don’t think Joelle wanted to take them back and making me dirt. I think he wanted to kind of clear them away from there. And when you, when you go to quote unquote, clear them away from there. I feel like you kind of like, it’s like turning on the light switch. Um, but you just, you’re not allowed to turn it off.

It’s like, if you, if you turn it on, like you can’t turn it off. Like it’s, it’s, it feels like that’s what I feel bad. We could do a whole podcast on the next topic and we’ve got to limit it to five minutes. Cause we are running way long here. JK, the interviews are prerecorded today and we’ve got to talk about the number four.

And what happened in this MHC contest. People are. A gas than a Gog over it at the end of the day. Is it that big of a deal that. People pick the rent. This is what happened. If you didn’t see people pick random numbers in the NTRA free contest and the random numbers, all, all the people who picked all the number for one it’s kind of nuts and interesting that there weren’t anybody doing all or hardly anybody doing all ones or twos.

And there were so many people who did fours, but I don’t think there was any handicapping involved. I think just a lot of people for whatever reason, pick fours, what do you make of this whole thing? And then I have a tough question to ask you. Um, okay, well, let me say this first. I don’t know what the, what the, I haven’t been on enough committees and boards and things like that, to know what ethics are on, like saying this is something that I’ve talked about and the situation all the time, and like kind of dismissing yourself from the responsibility of something silly that happens.

But I have to say that this is something that I pointed out to the NTRA players’ committee, and a lot of other people have talked about it as well. These free contests are not fun. They are not welcoming. They’re not encouraged. They don’t even encourage players to come back in it. And they, they kind of solidify the unfair stereotypes that I think contests have, which is a bunch of guys stabbing a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I mean, I know me as a horse player, I could care less about these free contests. It doesn’t really, it’s not part of my brain, but I do know. And we’ve even had someone tweet us about it. It’s like there’s people who, who like stayed up late Friday night. Woke up early Saturday morning, handicapped and handicap is their first contest.

They want to do good. They really put in the time and effort. And then if they watch they’re watching along and the guys who picked all the fours, like when, like those guys were not rushing back to there. Yeah. You’d never play again. If that was your first, that was your first contest. You would never play again.

That’s safe to say. And here’s the thing. Is it the biggest deal in the world? No, it’s not the biggest deal in the world, but it’s preventable and it’s terrible marketing. And in a weird way, it’s weird to call a free contest of money grab, but in a weird way, I think it’s kind of a money grab that there are these free contest exists, I think in a way to get people to sign up for the tour.

And so therefore people are. Paying. And then for people who are serious about the tour, unless this rule has changed, it used to be these contests to me, should almost not count towards the tour, a serious year, long horseplayer competition, and they’re actually worth more, or they used to be anyway worth more points.

That to me is crazy. It’s something that has to be addressed. Personally, I wouldn’t mind seeing them go away and JK, this is the tough part. I don’t know if you willing to say this publicly or not, but you shared privately with me an idea of investing that tour money in a way that’s much more likely to grow the game and promote real horseplay.

Let’s call the NHC seats for the sake of this conversation. And JK does math and fails. Let’s just make it 5,000. The seat’s worth $5,000. Garrett calm down $5,000. They’re giving away five of them. We’re talking about $25,000. My idea, my thought would be a better way to go about it is have the free contest.

That’s fine, whatever invite people to play, have them do the $50 for the tour membership, whatever we’re encouraging people to come to the game, that money, blah, blah, whatever. Now I think that what needs to happen is, is instead of giving NHTC, let’s take that 25,000, like give it back in a form of site credit or let’s give away, um, Let’s give away, uh, you know, giveaway entries to the kingdom contests.

They, you, uh, the UBC, the, the, you know, the Del Mar contest Saratoga, you know, other partners that are with Keon star and it’s like, let’s put the money back into play, but let’s put it into play where the players are going to enjoy it and come back. It just doesn’t do us any good. Sending five random people to the NHC.

It’s not, it’s not encouraging growth. In my opinion, it does it doesn’t. Cause it’s not fun. Those contests aren’t fun. There’s no serious. HorsePlayers that don’t if here’s the thing, if I cared. Fair enough. I would have gone on and done the same thing. I would’ve just got on and just pick like all 10. I have to JK, if you’re serious about making another tour run ever, you’ve got to take a shot in those contests and people who are either trying to get into the top one 50 or whatever those contests, it actually means a lot.

And it’s random. So it’s actually kind of smart. As a, from a players point of view, it’s actually kind of smart to not spend any time go in there, either handicap in 12 seconds. Just so you have a chance at the random lottery that could get you into the NHC via tour points, or even when you a tour, potentially, I don’t think that’s ever happened, but it there’s no reason it couldn’t.

So you’re absolutely right. Not only. It’s the NTRA is encouraging people to go in there and play all of one number. Surely I think the way you did the math was a little wacky, but I don’t want to get into the weeds. Well, yeah, of course. And then the other idea, I think just to be really quick, it’s like just take those five seats and like see the normal conscious.

Everyone knows that the $165 one in 65 contests, like instead of giving away, you know, to, you know, one in 65 let’s. Take some of those seats from the free contest, put them into that contest that you paid for. And now suddenly you can have a, you know, an $80 contest it’s one in 65 or, you know, I’m sorry.

Yeah. Or you can have a $165 contest. It’s one in 32, like seeing those pools with those seats. I think you get more bang for your buck that way than you do. Just kind of having the free for all or. Finishing the top half of the 2000 people in the free contest, get your $50 in tour money back in, in the form of psych credit.

There’s so many better ways to go about it, in my opinion. Yeah, those are some fun ideas. And I’m sure at some point we’ll sit down with a plan for world HorsePlayers tour and think if there’s some sort of fun marketing thing we can put out there in the world and they’d be welcome to take any ideas from us.

We’re always up for free consulting for our, uh, for our people over there. At the NTRA, I don’t mean to beat them up when they’re down, but I do think it’s important to have HorsePlayers backs to and point out these things that should be addressed. And, uh, listen to Jonathan kitchen would have been addressed already there.

I said it, I mean, other people have similar ideas. I don’t want to forget anybody when crystal army had made mention of it. Paul Sherman Palmer teas. I mean, other guys had made mention of, of the issue and then to be fair. In an email that we sent that I sent out yesterday, just kind of reiterated these ideas.

Uh, a pretty nice handful of people on the, on the committee have agreed that we need to take a look at it and, and hopefully it’ll get taken care of and we won’t have to do all right. Let’s get to our first interview. JK. Here is my conversation from earlier today with Kim Weir. And now I’d like to welcome to the, in the money players podcast.

Kim Weir, Kim is the director of major gifts and planned giving at the thoroughbred retirement foundation. Kim, how are you today? I am terrific, Pete, thanks so much for welcoming me. It’s a beautiful sunny snowy day in Saratoga, and I’m glad to be here. Snow actually arrive up there as opposed to the predictions that we receive, which amounted to pretty much literally nothing.

Yes. You know, this is a thing I’ve found in my first winter at Saratoga that it almost always actually happens here. We probably had four, four inches or so. And with the sun shining, it looks, you know, picture perfect postcard out the window this morning. Great people who just go to Saratoga in the summer are missing out.

I think on a lot of what the charm of the town is now. Granted, I’m not hardcore like you, I don’t think I could do an entire winter up there at least not. Yet, but I love going up and playing winter as we call it in Saratoga for a few days at a time. But, but it’s suiting you. Okay. It really is. And Peter, I have to say if this Southern California, San Diego girls can do it, you can do it too.

It’s wonderful. It’s wonderful. I lived near what many consider, well, I’m going to say they’re both on the short list of the greatest race tracks in America. Growing up, not far from Del Mar now living so close to Saratoga. At what point did you become a racing fan and how did you get into it? Oh, yeah, no, I feel very, very fortunate.

And perhaps it was my destiny to, to work in the industry, having grown up, um, in Del Mar and, um, certainly horses led us to Saratoga. But I think if I look at, um, I grew up riding, uh, from the earliest days, my happiest memories as a child were at the barn on a pony and a dirty and. Having a grand time in San Diego, but the first race horse that I believe I met, um, in fact it was a very memorable meeting, was with the great John Henry in 1981.

Um, thanks to a dear family friend, Kate Kaymarie Patterson, who was it? It was owning race horses and sort of in partnership before partnerships were a thing. So we could tribute, um, Ms. Kaymarie to my first race, horse interaction, but I really flash it forward. Um, first date with my husband, Bobby Weir was at Laurel park and that was more in the early nineties.

That’s that’s really what I think the bug, um, started to take, take root, thanks to Bobby. And, um, gosh, we jumped forward to 2019 when we live here. So it’s been quite a journey. Now, have you participated in the handicapping contest at all? I know Bob is a regular, a name that’s been on a lot of leaderboards with people, such as myself, making.

Facile, uh, grateful dead references. Whenever the name Bob Weir appears on those leaderboards. Have you, have you gotten involved on that side of things? You know, I, um, I, I, a lot of the games so much, and yet I just do not have the patience for all the hard work it takes to, uh, to really be a handicapper. I love to talk a big game, but not necessarily play the big game.

So I will say that my participation has it. Present been limited to the, uh, the pecan Cray contest. In fact, there was just one this weekend. So I do like to do those. Um, but Lord knows my handicapping technique would not hold up to the conversation that you and Jay engage in on a weekly basis. What is Bob’s relationship with the horses these days?

How, how involved is he? I haven’t seen his name as much, I’d say in the last year or so. Yeah, no, that’s it tracks pretty much with, um, all the, the reinvention of our lives that we’ve been busy, uh, undertaking over the last 12 months. But, um, his participation is actually, um, very much daily. Uh, he is a very.

Uh, happily participating on the buyer speed figure team. Um, and he started in that role. Um, it was actually Memorial day weekend of 2017. So I would actually, from my observation, I would track this, his, his tournament play has decreased in direct inverse relationship to his work on the figures, just a whole new whole new endeavor for him.

And another way to apply his brain to the numbers. So, um, so it’s not, not an end games on a plan, but that’s the fact, but I think as he’s really invested himself in learning the trade of the figures, um, that’s where his energy has been focused. Um, so meanwhile, he’s playing a lot. Um, you know, the fact that we can walk out our front door and in two blocks be at the track, he certainly had a different approach to Saratoga this year.

Um, cause he could go everyday and play the races every day. I always like to get the perspective of someone such as yourself. When it comes to handicapping contest. Cause I would imagine you’ve at least observed some of these tournament rooms over time. What do you, what do you make of the, this little subculture within a subculture that we have with tournament’s.

Oh, well, I, I just love it. Of course I can’t, I can’t help, but say that. I love the fact that Bobby has had the chance to go out to the NHC twice a week. We plan to do that again because we both love Vegas. And, um, I loved seeing that room and, um, and watching the work and I think, well, one thing I will say probably.

The first time now in a million times as we go forward, is that as much as horses are, what bring me personally to this, the sport, the animals are at my heart. The people of racing are what keep it so fascinating. It’s what your show is all about. But those rooms, that room at treasure Island and all that.

That is diversity of humanity is just endlessly fun and entertaining for me. And yeah, so I, it’s hard to know what to say about it. Um, but I have seen it and I just love it. Uh, I’ve also been in a lot of tournament’s in Delaware park and a lot of tournament’s at Laurel park and, you know, they’re, they’re all different, but the diversity of humanity is what keeps them super interesting and fun for me, from my perspective.

I love that description. Diversity of humanity, indeed. And it is always fun to see that that can resonate with somebody who’s outside our little world. One thing that I’ve been very proud of HorsePlayers about. Is in the last few years, especially a stepping up of the consideration of our role in thoroughbred aftercare, Brent, some Joe, when he won the tour back in, I think it was 2014, gave a great speech about giving back.

There’s a lot of players who, any time they have a big score. Make sure to put a portion of that aside to donate to charities like the TRF Joe Cory comes to mind when he had his big win in the player’s challenge. Maybe two years ago made a significant donation. That’s something I always want to encourage our listeners to do and all the more so now that we have this.

Uh, actual partnership between in the money players podcast and the TRF, but it’s just a thought process that I want players to go through. Look, I get it. We HorsePlayers, we give a lot in terms of, uh, our cost of making a bat, but there’s no sport without the horses. And yes. Owners need to breeders need to do more and step up and get more involved.

And many of them are, but I really think there’s a role for players to do so as well. I made that a point in the last two racing books I wrote to say, Hey, if you get some value out of this book, consider. Giving, and we’ve given portions of proceeds of the last couple of books as well. We don’t ever want to charge for pics on this show.

That’s not what our vibe is, not what we’re about, but if you ever do have a score because of something, we said, think about the idea of paying some of that forward to an organization like the thoroughbred retirement foundation. And one of the things I want to do in the rest of our chat today, Kim is talk about specifically what your organization is about.

How you help, not just horses, but also humans along the way. Well, I’m delighted to do that, Pete and I just can’t. Thank you enough for everything you’ve just shared. And, um, connecting the dots is, is one of the phrases I use all the time. It’s connecting the dots between the joy and the thrill and the fun and the heartbreak that this sport brings us to those animals that give us this experience.

So, so thank you for everything you’ve done over the many years to, to raise the visibility of the horses in the sport, and certainly excited to be a part of this. You know today and going forward to kind of tell the rest of the horses story. So, um, I’d also want to take just one second to mention that beautiful podcast posts or blog posts that I read this morning from your listener.

Um, bad beat Brad, about the battle of midway. Just showing that your listeners do, do connect deeply to eat animals. So if we can provide some information that helps them understand how they can do something, that’s, that’s certainly one of the things I’ll be glad to do. Excellent. Let’s start off by talking about the mission.

The charity originated. I think it was in 1983 with the idea of finding homes for horses. How has it evolved over time? Yes. Uh, so 1983, we were founded. We were founded by some racing royalty, uh, penny Chenery, the owner of great secretariat and a layer deployment of the great Kelso, where the two women who had this concept as a racing owners to care for these animals, our mission was.

Stated that and has been unchanged to save thoroughbred race horses, no longer able to compete on the racetrack from possible neglect, abuse and slaughter. Nothing about that has changed. The very first horse we took was in August of 1984. And from the very beginning, what we’ve done is placed these horses in, in environments where they can not only live out their full, healthy lives, um, in good care, but also help.

People and this, this is the magic of the TRF. It’s something I’m so proud to be a part of that first horse that stepped off the van in August 84 was named promised road. And he landed in the TRS at the Wallkill correctional facility in Wallkill, New York, a medium security prison where, um, We now have 50 horses and has kept horses for 35 years.

So that part of our mission, although not stated in the mission itself, the idea of placing horses in the correctional facilities has been our, our identity from the very beginning. Very very cool. And there are some amazing stories and we obviously, we’re not going to get into everything today. We’ll be having you on regularly and have an opportunity to hopefully do some more narrative type dives into this subject matter along the way, but give us a little bit of a flavor of the second chances program and how it’s helped humans as well.

So as I jumped into the second chances program, I was like to sort of paint the picture of, of now what we do and how many horses were doing this lift just for, for sort of statistics. The, the herd of the thoroughbred retirement foundation is 650 horses. We are not only the oldest. But also the largest by a lion’s share, um, in terms of our herd size, those horses live in 18 farms.

They’re in nine States, we have a national footprint and seven of those farms are the TRS second chances program. So the, the sketch of that is that we partner. Uh, the TRF with the individual correctional facility, these all happened to be state level, um, facilities. And the partnership is that we own these horses for life.

Once we rescue a horse they’re ours forever for till the, till their last day, uh, we will take care of all of their. There needs is a horse feed, farrier, vet, teeth, all of the things that come with horse care, the prison provides the land. Um, and that’s something they tend to have a lot of. They also provide, um, one.

Very key individual employee, which will be a prison employee that runs the programs. So very unique individuals. And I hope we get to talk about a couple of them, if not all of them in, in living breathing detail, because this is a very special person who works for a prison cares for a herd of 50 aging equine athletes in all States of, uh, uh, age and.

Runs a prison vocational training program through which he or she is teaching the inmates, how to care for those horses. It is a vocational program and each one of the prisons has their own credentialing system. But those individuals that finished the program are, are given a certificate to indicate they could be employed.

In a horse environment, whether that be the backstretch, a breeding farm, a show barn, or what have you. Um, so the partnership really is quite amazing, um, that it’s these big state government entities and our, uh, rather small, humble, hardworking nonprofit, but together we care for. You know, 300 horses that live in the TRF programs and are putting hundreds of men and women through a vocational program that gives them, uh, a lease on life when they leave.

So that’s a quick thumbnail. I could obviously talk on and on about it, but I’m looking forward to sharing more details. Absolutely. We’re going to get into some of those individual stories throughout the course of our visits here. For sure. One specific horse I wanted to ask you about. I saw the email you guys sent out the other day about quick call.

I’m sure a lot of listeners remember the horse and certainly know the race named after the horse that gets run annually. What was, or is quick calls, connection to the TRF. Well, the quick, quick call is, is at this point, I’d say our he’s our senior statesman say the very least because we celebrated his 35th birthday last week, which is of course his real official birthday was January 1st birthday was last week.

Uh, and he has a ripe 35, which is just. Frankly extraordinary. Um, that is the upper end of a horse, a thoroughbred life span, but he is, he is the, the grandfather of them all. He lives at our Wallkill, um, correctional facility and has been there for, he has not been there his entire 35 years. Of course, even though the program and he had the same age, um, But he, he is, he’s the beloved of the herd and the men who worked there, you know, sort of bow down to him.

They talk about how, even at his. Ripe old age with his gray whiskers. He he’s still the boss and some days he’s happy to see you. And some days he’s not, he’s still a race horse, you know, they never lose their identity. So, um, we do love him. We love the, the fan base that, that recalls him. And, um, we’re very excited that he’s.

His race day. This year is actually on opening day. The new opening day of July 11th will be quick call day. So the TRF will be there, uh, to, to share the story of his racing, uh, accomplishments. We also have a really cool video that, um, Niara shot about him last year. May, um, which I’ll be glad to share with you, Pete, if any of your audience want to watch that, it’s, it’s a great recap of his career too.

Please do share that. I’ll put it in the blog post, and I want to explain to listeners how they can help with this mission. We have set up a link. Do you have that URL handy by the way? Yeah, I do. It is T R S I N c.org. Backslash TRF Inc org backslash players. Please consider. Donating to this charity, the work they do is amazing what I’ve seen in person.

What I look forward to exploring throughout the year. It’s just, it’s amazing stuff. And you’re really helping, not just horses, but also humans. I want to hear a little bit more Kim, about your day job and what is involved in being the director of major gifts and planned giving for TRF. Oh, my gosh. Well, it is without a doubt, simply the, the job of my dreams, I think 25 years of my professional career led me to the chance that I now get to speak for the horses.

And that’s simply my day job is to be the, uh, the voice and the, um, the, the. The communicator for these gorgeous animals. Um, specifically in my role with, uh, major gifts, it is really trying to develop individual relationships with, um, with those folks who can help us in a meaningful leadership way, but also to really focus on celebrating the, those folks, doing the right thing, um, and then inspiring others in ways that they can, um, they can help.

There’s so many ways to help. I will say that. The TRF has, has been around for 35 years entirely due to the individual gifts of those who care for our horses. We are a hundred percent privately funded and many, if not, most, I think 80% of our gifts come in less than a thousand dollars. Um, so. My role is to speak for the horses broadly, and then to really develop specific relationships with, with organizations, racing partnerships, individual owners, fans, horse lovers, and even those who care about criminal justice to find ways for them to contribute to what we do.

So talking about versus talking about the impact of these horses on people’s lives is, is basically what I do for a day job. And it’s. Rather astonishing to me every day that I wake up with the opportunity to do this. So. Cool. You mentioned your equestrian background. Do you still ride. Uh, you know, um, I often asked that and I will say, uh, well, if they do right.

Yes. Oh, well, it’s been at this point, it’s been about a year since we moved up here. I was riding regularly in Virginia before we moved and then just haven’t reintroduced it into the recipe here. But when I’m asked, if I still have a horse, I can now say that I have 650 visit with regularity. So I think for now that’s been scratching the itch.

Um, I will say the San Diego girl in me is not quite right. Is inspired to ride no way day like today, it’ll be back on one level. It must be amazing on another level. I, my toes are cold. Just thinking about it.

All right, Kim, we’re going to have you back, uh, on a regular basis. We’ll start. This was just our general meet and greet for future visits. We’ll have a little bit more of a, of a direct theme of things that we’re going to talk about to hopefully educate people about the work going on there. And also just to share some of the stories, because there are so many great ones and I haven’t even talked to you about this yet, but I have an idea.

For April and we have to get the right strategic partners in place to do this, but I want to do a contest. I am sure one of those contest websites out there would be willing to donate their cut. If we were to do a charity. Contest. And then we’ll take all the money that would have gone to the contest site and, and donate that straight away through the TRF Inc org slash players link.

And I will ask listeners do us a favor and yes, there are other ways to give to TRF, but use that link. We really want to track this and see. Uh, what kind of an impact our listeners specifically can have with the goal of being able to have the podcast essentially sponsor a horse. Maybe I’ll ask you before you go today.

Kevin, how that works when I finished telling you about my tournament idea, but my thought was to have like a really. I want everybody to be able to play in this. So to do a really low buy-in feeder, maybe one week and then have a slightly higher buy-in main contest, and maybe even try to cover the contest in a podcast form.

Where it’s a little bit like a telethon vibe. Maybe even I’m making this up as I go now, but it sounded good. Kim, maybe you can come on. We’ll talk during it. We’ll put, we’ll put Bob to work to get him to talk about being a member of the buyer speed figure team. Nick tomorrow. One of his colleagues is a frequent guest on here.

Anyway, I think it could be fun and I think it would be a way to help promote a contest site out there, help the horses, help the humans and have a little bit of fun. Sound good. Oh, my God. It sounds like you had an extra cup of coffee this morning. That’s amazing. I’m all in. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much.

This is such an awesome opportunity for all of our horses and I’m looking forward to meeting many of the podcast listeners, my husband and I have been listening to you for years and I’m excited to be a part of all. This sounds like fun. Very cool. And we’ll have to do something as some type of an event in Saratoga.

I think. We’d love that we have horses here in Saratoga all summer. They are here to be met and fed carrots and Toto often learn to see what a 25 year old race horse looks like. Right. We love that. That’s awesome. Before I let you go. Last thing I do want you to explain about that sponsorship and how that works.

It’s something that, uh, I think our listeners could really get behind. Yes. Well, thank you. In fact, it’s exactly what Bobby and I did for years before we moved here. And as I was a supporter of the TRS, we, one of our key fundraising mechanisms is to literally engage our supporters in horse sponsorship. So 650 of these beautiful animals, each sponsor, um, gets to choose the horse.

That they wish to sponsor. We have folks who will choose based on the state they live in, or they will choose that they love mayors or they love grays. Or they, I personally wanted to sponsor like a warrior horse and one who had run over a hundred times at school, the, the working class blue collar, um, tracks of the, of the sport.

So. There’s a million ways to choose. Well, there’s 650 ways to choose actually a horse to sponsor. Um, but then as a, as a, as a sponsor, you get to build a relationship with that horse through photos that we’ll be sending regularly through. Um, of course, you’ll get to see their whole past. Um, performances and on several of our farms, visiting is, is a possibility, not all of them.

The prisons are a little tricky to visit, but it’s not impossible. Um, so we really want to build that personal connection between our, our donors and the horses through sponsorship. Just to put the number out there that we would, um, we look for for a year of sponsorship for one horse it’s $2,500. Um, so you’re contributing to their feed and their farrier and their vet.

Um, and with, with that, you feel like you, you are actually giving that horse a year of good care in our herd. So we’d love to, um, Explore that further. If that seems like something we could do together. Sounds great. That sounds like a great goal for me, for the podcast to see if we can generate that as we move on through this triple crown season through that special link, I’ll mention it one more time.

T R F Inc. Org backslash players. Kim, thank you so much for your time today. It’s been an absolute pleasure. Have a great week. Pete, talk to you soon. Cheers. And now in honor of Mardi Gras, we could think of no better guests to bring onto the, in the money podcast. Airwaves then trainer Eric.  Eric, how are you today?

Good crisp snowy morning this morning. You’re the Sunday, the second guest from Saratoga on this show, I was, we had a detailed description of the weather conditions from Kim Weir of the thoroughbred retirement foundation. In that way that horse people in Saratoga tend to know each other. Do you know Kim and the TRF.

Uh, you know, um, I know of her, I don’t know her personally that well. Um, but you know, in the Wellborn, you know, I know, I know I kind of help them with every time, the horse thing up here, people who are in there and kind of deal with Maggie Moss and I just actually donated some shipping money to them. Of silly old man who was having to feel pins down in Louisiana.

That was out of my good mayor. You want me to say each way back when that we bred, you know, I had lost track and the lady needed some shipping money to get her out of the built-in. So I kind of deal with him through that, but not personal. It’s cool that you’re involved on that level, though, for sure.

What is going on with you these days? What is your main, uh, what’s taken up most of your time. Right now as we go new born baby at my right, already been called grandpa once

to open this crap, my wife and I had a baby girl that way we, uh, spent three years doing gender select and stuff, you know, cause I’ve had three sons and they want a football team. We’re going to have a baby that they didn’t want her to girl for sure. That’s great. Well, I’ve got a handful. I have a handful of horses down at Belmont, and I’ve been going back and forth to the own, the waiting, uh, actually Leto, Calla, uh, this Thursday to go watch our babies.

We got some babies in the March sales OBS and Miami sales this month. So I’m kind of going, I’m supposed to go. Couple of weeks, a little over a week ago. And then they had to, they had to go to the hospital and get the baby. So I’ve been more of a babysitter than AMR strain of this past week. What is the latest with Southern equine?

Um, but just kinda on the idle mode, most of the things you’ve been selling the high in horses and kind of keep kind of like the last couple of years waiting for the order. So to pick up, you know, general day, bro, It was a stable backup. You know, it was still breeding high in horses and stuff in there.

The majority of them have to be sold to pay bills and keep afloat. So other than that, everything, you know, it was time and couldn’t have been any better with the baby situation and Saratoga. We’re trying to become a New York. Um, you gotta be stable and tired to move it up to the right bend agent moving so often for so many years, you know, that’s back stallion.

We have Labatt up here in Hudson Valley at CQL he’s bred more, um, more mayors last two years. Any other diet in the state is babies are phenomenal at the sales. So we’re just kind of a little IMO, uh, just waiting for, for the New York bred program and the bands to be older and go from there. You mentioned the March sales, uh, which, which horses are you excited about?

You guys are going to be selling that, that you think could, uh, could ring up some pretty big numbers? Well, I got four of them out of the seven there that’s going to probably bring pretty big dollar. I got a, uh, an uncle MoCo that shells on the 12th, 13:00 PM at the OBS sale. That’s, uh, people kind of high on it.

It looks deport and kind of a late full, but, uh, Paul Sharp has a in consignment and he’s, uh, It pretty high on him. He’s going to work for the sale. This product, matter of fact, gate gate told him that he was a little bit above the bottom. Jake had the sister to him at 300 quality road, 52 old quality of the Philly that ran the four year old now.

And, uh, so these kind of nights, and then I have an American feral. Uh, permit and another uncle Mo and uncle Mo feeling that’s going to be in Mia, Miami sales. I’ll I’ll bring those pretty nice sources. Eric, how did you get involved in the horse business in the first place? Uh, well, I’ve been to, I’ve been in, I’ve been to diapers.

I’ve been crying because it had a pony onset. I wouldn’t need to enter the driveway when they go visit. Cause I’m wanting. So I’ve been having the horses at 75 years. Old pony had abortions. All my life grew up in it’s a way of life in Louisiana. I mean, you know, think about it. The 30 mile radius of where I was born and raised at six match rates, places I was at central

We ride the same bars on a Friday night partio and thrill ride all day, Saturday, and then hop in and drop him into the match races at 10 o’clock after church on Sundays, you know, it’s a, it’s a way of life. I mean, it’s, uh, it’s it, everybody had a horse into their backyard and. So I kind of grew up in there.

I moved to California in 1981 to chase the horse dream. And then about four years over there just chasing women, because it was so different. The whole youth fade from the swamp Heights. That’s like a sit-com that’s that’s you should have seen it. It was a different world. I, you know, it’s like wholly different worlds.

And then, um, It was good. It kind of, it was a weird thing. I moved down with my sister and man, well, I feel was bad in Louisiana, was on a farm. And so my horse, my good quarter horse race, horse team, my brother needed the money to move there. And then I was working general contracting and the guy was partners with.

Back then in the early eighties, they were adopted out in the mountains of Northern California and it was releasing and adopting those wild Mustangs for like $125. People would adopt them these four or five years. They’ve never been touched by you and that, you know, And, um, big fat.

tried to get on it with all the pieces and they could get close to it. So I would drive from the beach in a BMW and hang out and go over there and spend 30 days breaking the hardest kick your body within 30 days like that, I was, you know, 50 cowboy and, uh, Then it just, it got back into my, the reason I came out to California.

So it all started just move from the beach and what we looked, we perform and at least a couple of little thoroughbreds and then Saturdays and, you know, work on that St. Louis Ray. So I started at St. Louis way, like in the mid eighties, 86, 85, something like that. And just went from there, you know, back then it was a different program, you know, it was.

Most of the people that had money, had them with McAnally, with names of the world. It’s a different ownership than it is today. You know, how did Southern equine come about? That was actually, I was training on the private training for Merv Griffin in the nineties, 95, 95, 96. And before that for five years, my, uh, After the down and out, my in-laws arbitrary that followed for double Boris ranch for my 24 year old, my son, and kind of split raised with them.

The father, such a, like I said, my life’s along for this story, I will give you a short, quick version for podcasts. So I moved back to the lead, the because after her Griffin and stuff, all the promises, I want it to start, go back and it wasn’t. Lonestar was opening up for the first year of 98 and I wanted to go there and start houses and new clientele.

I figured that was a whole new venue. And when I got back to the Louisiana, I’ve had, that had been for the bottom 5,000 from my in-laws. So I didn’t want to go back with nothing. So I’m in the stage, you know, she was the best, pretty funny in the world that year, those two, three years. And, um, I went to lone star and she broke up maiden about 14 months.

And, um, Comecon offers office, the $300 put to use the money, you know, and decided to keep her. So at the time my grandma was living with my third wife or whatever the hell it was. He was working too. She got a job and she got a job at my partner, Mike Marino’s, he at the time needed have a little safety company, also safety company.

And he was about 29, 30 years old at the time. And he would take, she would take a picture if she was doing some kind of administration. And she took a picture of good Philly and put in there and it would just come in there and look at the picture. And didn’t say two words to her and, you know, And next that’s being another, he had a house warming party for the guests.

I went over to the house, one 48 deals for the office, his office. And I told him I left there, you know, hitting him hard. And he went the next day to him. My wife, he says, your husband is the best horse training shit and come to find out that’s how it all got started 20 years ago. And, uh, He was, his name is Marino.

Our name is Marino, his birthday’s July 25th birthday, July 25th. His name is Michael B Marino. She got a brother named Michael, I mean, freakish, freakish, faded that, you know, so that’s how it all got started. 20 years ago. Let’s have an equine. Eric. I, I barely got into the game probably around 2000, you know, five, six, seven, eight, uh, and people on this show have heard me talk about her a lot, and we’ve got to talk about her privately as well, but, uh, you’re one of your most important Phillies.

And definitely my most important Philly was affiliate by the name of champagne Durrell. Can you kind of update us on, on how she’s doing and, and, and, and I, I know that you’ve told some pretty fun stories about how she kind of came about how you decided to run her at fairgrounds and, and, uh, Del Mar against the boys.

So I just wanted you to talk about her a little bit. Well, uh, that year, that was 2009. I actually have a 12 word statement added to Becka, at least probably in the country. I had her and, uh, MI Sueno back out the escapades daughter at the same time. So I separated them. So I didn’t have to pull over to Denmark, Debbie Denmark security, because I didn’t want them to run against each other.

So I ended up wanting to dump more debutante. And so we put you in paint against the boards. Yeah. Learned a good fifth. And then, um, she’s a super nice, uh, obviously she wants the acorn. She probably shouldn’t be, she would have, should have won the prize thinks and she got boxed in with Miguel Maynor and she blew them away in the test.

So she was three, sorry, one second. The priors getting boxed in. So she was, should have won three great ones in a row and went to editor three back to back. And then when the kind of world upside down, we had to sell some of the high-end mayors, we end up selling to Japan. I think I want to say, I think you sold for 2.9 million and told to, uh, to, um, was it Franco?

No tap that we sold them for this happened and my topic gold in Japan and winning that a hundred point race it’s supposed to come to Derby, then something happened to them. One of the, what happened to you? So I’m having to, and then he has the, she has this, this, I want to say last month. She has a deep impact that good stallion independent impacted, broke, broke his maiden first time out.

That is a monster. Yeah. So she’s, she’s producing as well. Beautiful man. Beautiful man. That was, um, that was kind of, but that was, uh, that was a big payday at the window guys because I ran into Kentucky Oaks at 30 to one. And then we’ll forget. And, uh, make the populous crowded. I could always use those today and she’s a speed horse.

So they popped the gate and she stumbled. She was looking to the grandstand. She stumbled stumbling that behind the field. And it was like, it was just a throw me out, you know, that the bank, I don’t want to go run in there 30 minutes. And in it’s up the Hill and you go all the way over to that. And I told her, I knew she was doing well, you know, And, uh, Bing bang, boom, but on the leave on one turn mile and the rest is history, you know, the $87.

I want to say I walked out with 65,000 candidates. That’s more than J K. I think she was, uh, she was a beautiful mirror, but she couldn’t warm up between them and slammed. It was the real deal. She was. The major reason why I knew it was the one that wanted to done more debutante. Nope. Did I just, I just texted back and forth nothing but a little go out story, but famous Amos in the Batali.

It was funny. I’ve got a couple of them that I’ve got a couple of good  yeah. We’re we’re gonna, we’re going to hop to the Mardi Gras, uh, right after this, our podcast and our listeners are pretty horseplayer centric and. You know, we’ve obviously heard you on BIC and other, other forms of media talking about the horses and stuff, but how does horseplay is it part of your game and you bet a lot, do you not bet?

Do you, uh, you know, what do you think, you know, when you think about the horse player in general, I want to do is going to be straight up on him. You know, everybody knows I am. That’s what I do. I want his player. Um, I don’t follow the horse. The horse Campbell and part of it every day, all day. And for the most part, the big races of the horse and a horse himself is the horse itself is what I liked him.

He just in the, when the anatomy of the horse is falling on a train and a little bit better than me, I’m not going to be willing to bet that the therapy part of them getting the hearts and sounding ready to run it and big races. It’s the big races in the fund that intrigued me. I always ask. And that if I can’t go ahead and fund it, I’m not going to do it, but do something that is five days a week, but I’m probably a million up on my whole harvest.

That only bet when I know I’m going to, when I only bet when I know they’re going to take Chinese money. So I’ve been a while since I’ve done it sometime it happens once in a year, two or three years. Sometimes it happens twice in a year, but I’ll get a lot of big scores, 60, 70, 40, 30, 40,000 at a time. And, and up.

But as far as the handicapping, now I’m going to add, but I don’t do it. I don’t find a lot of fun in it too much for me, but what I am good at and as good as any, and I shouldn’t do a seminar to teach people ambulance that is K do to pick sixes, but I can pick horses off the racetrack as good as ever.

They didn’t know if you’re the game and. For Del Mar I went 20 years of most to Del Mar before I moved to Saratoga. And I can answer them that I was never had to go to the bank or the ATM, I would just play one or two or three a day, just watching them warm up and we’ll wake up four to five favorite cause he looks over or style or whatever, and that a five to one or something like that.

Walk around with two or 300 in my pocket at all times. I couldn’t even eat popcorn and have a conversation with someone because my friends were like, like, yeah. So I’m not a, I’m not, um, uh, I’m really good at this watching the hardest part of it. You know what I mean? You know how many picks this is that look played in my life?

How many don’t, you know, how many pitfalls ever place I’m going to guess? How many rolling ripples I played when I have a horse, I like. And I put them on top of the superfecta trifectas within a week. I will the field, you know what I mean? And that’s how that’s, you know, I mean, you just hope that a long shot run second or third when I win, keeping it simple with the wagering.

I love the idea of you’re doing some kind of seminar about looking at horses in the paddock. I think I’m gonna try to, uh, observe you up there this summer and try to learn a few things. Cause I love trying to do it. What is it that you’re looking for? How do you describe to somebody? What a good horse looks like for me?

You know, I’m so intuitive with the horse, cause I’m not too hard, but I can train cutting piracy, jumping horses. I mean, you wouldn’t hear anything for lays from our standpoint, but not just the Rachel’s I’m a tree. So that, that makes a difference right here, knowing that two of them, or there’s only good at four things and people don’t realize it.

They don’t know they’re good at crapping eaten misses. And intuitive and intuitive part of the heart. There’s not a human being in the world. That’s more intuitive than an animal. That’s why they have to record even in big ears. You know what I mean? Come on. So they designed the drink of the lagoon with the antelope and the deer was trying to jump on it back.

So that’d being said, if you, if you learn, if you, if you walk in, if you to stand on the rail, like search up with a good spot. So they come down that bridle path for a long ways. Yeah. If you stand on the rail and when you watch him walk by it, you want to see a horse. That’s not too much on the muscle a little bit.

You want to look in the eye, you can literally see from six, seven feet away. I can look at a horse and I, and I can see the reflection, how clear it is and not focused. You don’t want to see one. When I was making back and forth weight, the horses nervous. You don’t want to see the tail that’s cooked up on the way here.

You want to see this drive well was fooling for the back foot, covers the tracks. No, you want to see it like a pump. If you promise drain, you want to see the backflip actually fall in the same line as the front foot, because if it does it, then that means you either got to stifle or stiff or something’s wrong physically with them.

And then you want to see how they act and how they focus in it. Here’s a purge, like when you put in the saddle on him, you want to see how they act when the job became the mannerism. When they, when the jockey gets laid up. You know what I mean? Good to change again, once they walk into the track change, then once you start galloping with the Tony, you know what I mean?

It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s a Hartman, intuitive thing that, you know, so, but you can teach people. I mean, you know, not the act to really teach them. I was thinking in Bruno, Bruno, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah. I mean, Bruno’s been friends almost 30 years and stuff, but to him, he thinks he knows about Valino,

but he knows the game. You know, you know, I was thinking this spring because I got so much time on mine and that’s my biggest problem in life right now. Okay. Workaholic and investments time, man, with him, for the horses that, uh, there’s no reason why we shouldn’t do some kind of, you know, guest fan seminar thing, Saratoga, where he can do the handicap in the work part of it.

And then.

you know what I mean? It’s a fun idea. Right? You might find a market, something to do. If you want to get involved in let’s do it. I was just going to point out that, uh, there’s a, an actual, really a famous race horse that kind of went wrong in the last couple of years. And I was at breakfast with Eric and he pointed out a video showing me exactly.

What it was that made him believe that that horse was never going to be the same. And he was absolutely right. We won’t throw anyone under the bus, but, you know, I think the ability to be able to look at those horses and identify winner when they’re going to, you know, do their, have their best performance.

I know as handicappers, we can see patterns and, and on paper and ideas of cutting back and adding blinkers. But, but the physicality part is definitely the weakest in my game. I’d love to learn more and Eric would be a great person to teach it. Obviously. I keep it up, probably start you on the raft and just tell them I’m friends with people like Nick and, you know, people that ain’t going to leak it out and stuff.

But I can say, I can send you, I have those on the top of my head, a big dollar horses and famous horses and big trainings and stuff that when they everybody’s scratching at him, I’m the same way. And I can tell you exactly why not the same horse, just watching one raise of what you warm up. You know what I mean?

It’s an amazing, it would blow your mind and I’ve got video and video I’m off from a big screen TV. It shows a physical issue. You know what I mean? From a video job in warming up in the paddock, I mean, in a racetrack. That’s amazing. So just that part of the game. I’m the master. I really am. I mean, Marina was the, probably the lamest handicap older horse in his division without a shadow of a doubt.

And I made every big dance, every dance. Well, I mean, it just, it’s what I do. And that’s what, that’s why they call me, you know, to respect to Mr. Howard jerking. My mother died, he looked at, I told them this call me and they just call me the dragons. Think about it. Think about how many big races of woman at a small stable of 50 North to the left in the, I mean the billboard, the acorn, the test.

Jim, Dan read me as Dan. I mean, it just, you know, all those big steaks. Yeah. It’s great stuff. All right. We’ve got to ask, what are your plans for Mardi Gras and how do you celebrate Mardi Gras in the swamp? I honestly, I don’t celebrate Mardi Gras for mortars when I was a teenager living in Louisiana before moving, I mean, wanted to go, was this funny?

You can get chasing women and get tore up and, you know, staying on all night. I’m gonna tell you a quick, okay. Back in the year, champagne ran in the fairgrounds Oaks, right? Uh, 2010 one to say it was. Where was Dave on that that’s a year, of course, in new Orleans, I was being trained with a stable that’s the first year I only had a large stable at 32 horses and I was trained at 27%, one 2,282 lead on just one, one way from the known and to meet.

And so as a year that, uh, you know, pack you’d be a corner apparently. Right. So of course, Patrick, Patrick, you cannot be a corn. Now, the friends that the year that he won, uh, he kept, he shipped in, was, uh, Uh, Ms. Peyton’s, uh, horse for the risen store. And what was that name? That black horse. I can’t remember.

Anyway, so we, we, the gaming guys want to bring us out to dinner to go to school, right? So I’m living, I’m renting a big. High rise, fricking old cotton gin in the Duffy’s by the Superdome on the lead circle, being a big, big, big, nice fancy condo. So we’d go out to dinner, not as Mardi Gras parades going all over this middle morning.

So I’m trying to get home. I’m tired. It’s nine. O’clock having a few beers to drink it and talk to the team. Isn’t that right? So that may escalate I’m diamond. I’m trying to get across to get back to the house. I came across miles and miles barricade the police they’re gay, and everybody had to park like eight blocks away or go through a crowd of a, seemed like a million people’s like in a third world.

And so like he was in the third world in the morning. I had to climb over the scaffolds. I had to go down to the leeches, jump over the rail, wait for some little children’s parade thing. Run across the parade, do the same, a little bit of back and get to walk and find my place. The next morning, when I get up to go to the track, it was 20 or 30 straggling trash, all a little bit looked like it was fricking dura somewhere.

It was so crazy. But the witnesses, you know, in the Mardi Gras, something I hide from it ain’t for me anymore to tell you that I saw the party that you helped host out at Santa Anita. It looked like you were pretty into it. Yeah. Well, let, let me tell the better thing. Yeah, but that was fun because it wasn’t in new Orleans was crazy.

We had 8,000 people. This was, this is sad because I was pro bono. I was trying to help. I need it back in the day when they couldn’t get guests and they couldn’t get fans and they were trying to grow, but working. And so we put together this 20, definitely those food trucks got popular. And my buddy there on the, the Cajun restaurant and him and I put this together, my brother came cook on the apron and that picture I had sent you guys that was actually Rosie.

From the caucus corner store in Dumbo. And the best part about that whole day was that 8,000 years ago and 20 food trucks and me and my son was the judge, the food. So we went around and taking a bite of that was awesome. We’d uh, we’d go there in the line would be a mile long and they would go serve lines in the back of the jail.

You thought he would give me the best? So that’s the sad part is the sad for houses we had. 8,000 people on the infield, right. They charged $10 to get in. And instead of giving a phone all about you or have the Bruno knickers, and I do like some kind of seminar and 7,990 left, not though 100 bet on a horse, we have a captured audience.

Instead of giving them the voucher to 5,000, with a belt on the gray horse or Susie Q or whatever, they dropped the ball and I’ll give up that, to that. That’s what I started hustling Chinese people. They just, they, they just didn’t get it. You know, we, we had this big event with the infield full of people and they did nothing, nothing to help them.

You’ve mentioned a couple of things now that. It sounds like you feel like you have a perspective that racing could do better. Talking about educating fans, about looking at horses, talking about engaging fans when they’re at the track for another thing, what, in your opinion, Eric is the key to fixing racing more and more fun, more fun.

First of all, everybody has got their hands in everyone’s pocket with the wealthy people that played the game. First things first finishes school, always the trainer. I keep sinning shit in the booklet. Nothing that people that make them, they go to do, can you imagine act in before the world went upside down and Nick, Nick Carnes is mom, you know, um, Grayson manage at the time when I hired, when we rolled it in going in, and I’m good friends with many Schuman from the blood heart shortage there.

I don’t know if you’ve seen the editor and I’m a good friends with John Simon, the writer that puts the Lords from Madeline and we good friends. I wanted to start a owner’s magazine like 2,500 a year subscription to the magazine where. When a horse wins, they interview them, tell them about that business that brought them to the game and then they can have the time to make it go.

Can you imagine if you will, we rolled out the red carpet with this game could be from an owner’s perspective. If indeed they put them first for change. I mean, just it’s crazy. They don’t don’t don’t do nothing to, or the fan base. When’s the last time they say, Hey, listen, you, you, uh, when’s the last time you took her, I’ll give you an example.

I’ll give you a prime example. Uh, w when’s the last time that a guy that that’s a lot of money that comes to the races every day, that not a room or started group. Anyone said, Hey, Jill, you bring your family. We’re going to give you this week for this, this data, this quarter briefing today. Or we’re going to give you a box for 12 for you to bring you and your family and friends.

Pass it, if you go into the office as a trainer, you know, I’ll get to pull a few strings because while I am, and you know, they love me, but if you put people into an office and say, Hey, can I get a box for Joe, blow them? You know what I mean? That’s, you know, he’s a big gambler, you know, if you’re going to pay, is he going to pay.

I mean, that’s all they care about and that’s the problem with racing. So I’ll give an example. There’s a guy named I’ll call him lawyer. John, the first guy I ever met here, 2009 or something, I moved, he went 25 years without missing one brains lie at of him. He missed weddings, funerals, graduations, not one raised five in Saratoga.

So I’ll go in a couple of years ago, it was his 25th anniversary of that particular thing. And I go, Hey. Can we just like the seventh rates of payment. Can we just put on the program to celebrate lawyer down, you know, or my time, you know what I’m saying? Take a picture down there in the winter circle and put in the program, sponsor rates for him, jail for being, you know, a fan and a lot of pitching.

So I’ll be here. Oh no, we really can’t do that. I mean, really, really? I mean, you know what I mean? It seems like the league. Yeah. That’s the problem. So they don’t take the part. I mean, they, we famous my brother and I and Southern equine and the people that around my, my short list, we painted for setup. We famous for having fun and celebrating the day before we even run into racist repayments.

I haven’t even if we lose, then the people that win. So it’s become, it’s become to where they take the fun out for me, because growing up in Louisiana, Bragging or the fastest or bragging and going to school Monday morning after the match races on Sunday and having a good time and talking crap and have a good time is wouldn’t treat the game.

Is what made it fun? No, he just take the punt. He’s so worried about being, I mean, listen to the interviews, we’ve been talking for 15 minutes. You heard me say, Oh, Uh, uh, no, I don’t do, uh, I don’t, I don’t premeditate, but I’m going to see like the big traders and what they

do, uh, for people that got to think what they got to say, American, like, you know what I mean? That’s so funny. It’s crazy. Right. It just, it just taking the phone out. It’s just no more fun. I think you’re onto something about the people who don’t have to be here and racing are really the owners and the fans and the gamblers.

And I, I mean your ideas, they remind me a lot of what our friend Craig Berneke and our friend Pat Cummings talk about at the thoroughbred. Idea foundation. The idea that you’ve got to serve these people who are spending their money, making the game go. I think you’re really onto something. Eric. I liked that answer a lot.

Oh, yeah. I’ll give you an example. I mean like all those years here at Saratoga, would they have that back when it’s called the Dunblane stretch under the 10 of the seven, eight shoot over there this fall, you know, and I could be 50 to one in a big race and whatever they want me to be the in command, you know, they want me to paint.

So, so if  going to come meet me, we just kind of watch and listen. It’s my partner, my best friend. And who’s give me, give me a limit at what I love to do. And we best friends and all the money he’s invested. If he can’t come, you ain’t got me. This is that simple, fair enough on somebody else. And then they, you know, what they do, they spread before the chair and put another chair and he comes and we have fun.

And if they don’t do it, I ain’t doing the show. Jay, can you add one more? Right. I just want to know how much, uh, Eric’s tweet about, uh, about Southern fandom. I just wanna know how much money he’s made. Off of his chart. I thought it was a wonderful chart that he did, how much he was in a chart for pictures.

I’ll get that charter. Well, the thing is, you know, when the girls were seven to 10, the hot, it had so many hot girls come there was free, you know, so he’d make a whole lot, you know what I mean? But, but there’s, there’s a bunch of guys that had to pay the 20 bucks. You know what I mean? So far he’s made almost as much money with the charter.

Send that around. J K . Either 40,000 claim or maiden claimant, what time you going in? I mean, I never, I never said it was much more than that. They just famous because of this beauty, obviously, but I’m not freshly interrupted. Find a cheaper venue. Now I’m thinking beat over to him. Yeah. But, uh, you know, you take, put him in book cleaning because I got 100 rich people says Dov, but that was, but tag on the plane, no matter how much you put my daughter arrived.

All right. One more for you, Eric, before we, uh, before we let you go and get on with your, with your life, you mentioned about your brother and, uh, and being a chef. What can you tell us about the gumbo recipe? I can tell you this. We’ve given it to many people on the West coast, many people in conducting the recipe forum, give them a B feed.

This constructions. On the Yankees up in the Northeast and I paid them better, better Dunbar, progressive soup cans. Then they make it and I don’t understand why they can’t get it done. That’s the best recipe in the world. What’d you? What’d you trust me with it? You know, I’m a, I’m a hand in the kitchen.

I’m not, I’m not bad in there. You know, Tony, uh, Tony from the Matisse crew said, I make the best ribs in Saratoga. So I think we might have to fire up some gumbo this summer. What do you think. Oh, yeah. Well, we’ll do something for sure. I mean, I actually, I have so bored with doing that with the neighbors have been doing Pictionary game nights for a long, and I was making gumbos and  and children’s, and it was fun cooking, you know, when the call, as well as learning about the weather, you had the for gumbo, but I can look at a bowl of gumbo.

Tell you if it’s good before you can say, so you cook as well. I thought your brother was the cook. Oh, no, we both cook. This is what this is equally as good. Yeah, that’s awesome. That’s really, really relevant, relevant one. The Dumbo cook off against all the fancy restaurants in new Orleans, Louisiana.

That’s awesome. Eric, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. And if, uh, you know, no good deed goes unpunished around here. We’d love to have you back on soon. Yeah, well, you know, we can do it if y’all want to do something this summer, when the fan base comes out, I was up to do something all the time on my hands.

You know, I may be driving. I’m going to be punching the babies during the morning, obviously, but it would be, it would be kind of fun if you do you come and stay at Saratoga for a while? Oh yeah. I’ve got the house up there. J K is going to be there for close to the whole meat rumor. Has it. I could see a whole podcast get together, um, and we’ll bring some fans in and let people get to meet you and benefit from your expertise and, uh, and culinary skills, little collaboration party.

Awesome. That’s what, that’s what you do. I mean, you know, last year we did me and Dale Romans in West point sponsored a dumb blonde coffee. We had a great time. It was fun. Great. Great stuff. Thanks, Eric. We’ll talk to you again soon. All right. Have a good day. Cheers. Bye. All right. J K. That was a lot of fun as expected.

And I really think it’s interesting when he talks about ways of improving racing. Great idea for a question by you, by the way you texted me that one, as we were chatting how similar his ideas are to, to the TIF guys. I mean, it’s amazing often the horseman and the horse player. Happened to view what racing needs differently typically.

Um, and so I think that, that when you have a trainer who, and, and a horseman who feels very similarly to how we feel as horse players, I think there’s something to that. Uh, and you know, the, the idea that he said about, you know, he wanted them to give a voucher to the people that were paying to get to the, to the Mardi Gras party at Santa Anita.

Like that’s an idea that we’ve talked about in the past. Of of charging admission, quote unquote, but getting back some of that in, in the form of a voucher, that’s going to do it for this edition of the, in the money players podcast. I want to thank Kim Weir. I want to thank Eric . I want to thank my man K for his excellent contributions as always, most of all, I want to thank all of you, the listeners you make the show so much fun to do.

Keep those comments and questions coming. Use the hashtag ask. I T M and we’ll get to as many of those questions as possible. The shows have been so loaded lately. We’re running a little behind, but keep them coming and we’ll keep answering them. That’s it for now. Oh, one more. Thank you. Almost forgot to thank one more time.

Our friends from the thoroughbred retirement foundation, as well as our friends from 10 strike and our business manager. Drew Courtney that wraps that up. This show is a wrap back on Thursday or Friday. I’m Peter Thomas for Nitel. May you win all your photos.