Show 22: Friday, March 8 (Laffit Pincay III, Rich Averill)

Laffit Pincay III of Fox Sports is here to talk about his life in racing and this weekend’s Triple Crown preps. Then Tampa Bay form expert — and leading owner — Rich Averill stops by to mark your card for Tampa on Saturday. Plus, breakfast cereal in the fridge? Who knew?

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***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

Hey, everybody PTF here. I just wanted to check in with you as our audience, before we get into today’s show, it will be a regular show, but given everything going on in the world of racing, I just wanted to take a minute at the beginning to address briefly the situation in Southern California. Steve Beck has been doing a great job, covering it on his, at the races for much more.

You should check out the archives of his shows from this week, but it’s obviously a very difficult situation for everybody involved. There’s no racing without the horses. So many of us involved in this game are animal lovers and horse lovers, and there’s just nothing worse than seeing.

When things aren’t going well for them seeing horses dying at the track and in the quantity that’s been happening at the current Santa Anita meet people, ask me what I think is going on. I don’t have any answers. It seems like it’s some sort of combination of. A new crew working, not to blame those people, but it’s just a fact, the less familiar people working the track at a time when they’ve had a lot of weather.

And there’s no doubt that there’s just an amazing amount of horrendous luck involved, kudos to Santa Nita for taking the bold move of suspending racing until the situation can be addressed. It sounds like there might not be any more racing there this month. Hopefully in that time. Things will get straightened out.

As we learn more. As there’s more news, we will talk about it and relay it to you here. But on this show, I just wanted to acknowledge it. And then I just want to get on with the show, but I also didn’t want it to be like we were pretending nothing happened. So I’ll just close by saying our hearts go out to all the connections who’ve been affected by this out in California.

And our thoughts also are with our friends at Santa Anita who are working diligently to fix it. Okay. Now let’s get on with the show,

your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is show number 22. It is March 8th, 2019. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a towel back with you in the Brooklyn bunker. Want to say thank you right off the bat to our sponsor of today’s episode black type.

Thoroughbreds. If you’re curious to learn more about owning a race, horse checkout black type and send a note to our friend Jake Ballis, we’ve got a truncated version of the show today. So we are going to dive right in. First off, I will introduce my cohost. You know him, you love him. He’s the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen.

What’s up JK. What’s going on. Did you guys see Steve Vick’s serial list? I mean, this is something terrible I had to, I had to get off. I spent those stayed up late last night, trying to correct everybody’s serial list. I don’t understand why everybody likes Apple, Jack horrible. Um, but I, I fought back and defended the millennials on the cereal.

Oh my goodness. I all I’ve seen on Twitter was the amazing Paul Mattise line about his son. Did you catch that? J K. One of the greatest tweets of all time nominal, I’ll let you read it. And then we really have to get to our guests. Who’s whose time we’re wasting here. Paul has two sons and I’m curious which one it was that said it.

Uh, but essentially it was a great family. Uh, no, wait, now, here we go. Here we go. Here we go. Perfect. Being both horrified and extremely proud as a parent when just asked if he plays a musical instrument. My son responded, shaking his head. I only play the early pitfalls. Amazing. Fantastic. All right. Enough nonsense.

We got to get right down to business and I want to bring to our airwaves and extremely popular analysts. Been doing such a fantastic job on the series of Fox sports racing, broadcasts, and elsewhere. Laffite pinkeye. The third, how are you doing today? Doing well, how’s it going guys at first? Keep your captain crunch in the refrigerator.

If they life altering experience have been crunched in the fridge. I’ve never heard this before. I’ve never, does it have some sort of chemical effect on the cereal? What are we talking about? It’s just better. It’s different between a warm soda and a cold soda. Try it. JK. You buy them this lunch in the fridge.

I accidentally put cereal in the refrigerator. I have never done that before. I’m a big fan of oops. All berries. It’s my favorite cereal. It’s my number one. Um, it’s the one where it’s it doesn’t have the, the captain crunch and just has the, uh, the berries in it. Um, I’ll give it a swing set. It seems like, it seems like it makes a lot of sense.

I, I, I, you know, grapes in the freezer are great. So why wouldn’t captain crunch in the refrigerator? Yeah, I, wasn’t looking to get into a semantic conversation about this, to think your damn captain crunch in the fridge. All right. Fair enough. Usually Laffite when. New guests. Come on this show, we talk to them about the famous relative who got them involved, how they got their start in your case.

We know that. So we’ll just skip to what was it like growing up at the race track with a legend as a father. Yeah, nepotism gets a really bad, bad rap. Um, yeah, it was, you know, we didn’t go my sister and I weren’t at the track that often to be honest, um, the racetrack wasn’t necessarily the family friendly place that it is now.

Um, it wasn’t necessarily a place you brought the kids. We were there on father’s day to watch that. And we were there opening day of Santa Anita, you know, the day after Christmas. And other times of the year holiday we’re off for school for that kind of thing, but we really weren’t there that often. But once I learned to kind of appreciate the sport and actually understand a racing form a little bit and followed his career and taking an interest, um, it was awesome.

And constantly bugging down like, Oh, you know, are you writing any good? You know, three-year-olds, do you have anybody for that? For the breeders’ cup when I’m 14 and 15 years old? He’s like, why are you so bad at you? You know, worry about a little bit more. Um, but yeah, it was, it was absolutely thrilling by the time I really got into it.

He was in the Twilight of his career, but I got to still watch him. Compete live and a couple of Kentucky Derby. He rode the bluegrass winter millennium wind. One year. He was fourth on Medallia Doro. In 2002, I will argue till I’m blue in the face had Medallia door broke that day. He would have been in war envelopes, hip pocket, and he was a better race horse than more emblem.

Um, but just watching him compete in a Derby at a time where I could appreciate it was was, you know, it was incredible. Let’s see, you mentioned, uh, San Anita, I mean, Hollywood park. Was that a big part? And did you go down for the summer for Del Mar or how did. That. Yeah, no summer as a kid in school, like, it didn’t feel like summer started until the, until we were down at Delmont.

Um, I spent every summer at Mar until I was 17 or so again, not at the race track, much. We used to rent. Joe Harper’s old house, his family’s house. It was the, if, you know, Del Mar at all, it was the first house next to the Del Mar motel on the beach. Absolutely. I know exactly what you mean. It was paradise for, for a kid, you know, we like to say for the horseman and everyone, and it was like working vacation.

I mean, they might push back a little bit. They’re working six days a week back then. Um, but that was, yeah, that was our, some of my fondest memories. As a kid where my summers at Del Mar and on Hollywood, Hollywood, I started going with, with my father. I think he just wanted to like stick me in the passenger seat and the carpet go down the freeway so that he could, you know, avoid some of the traffic, but going down on, on Friday night and hanging out at the racetrack, that was always.

You know, a lot of fun. And for me, that’s part of why I miss Hollywood so much, not necessarily the drive to the West side of town, but when you have a year round sports, so to avoid, but not me. And so it doesn’t feel like Groundhog day, it needs that change. And that’s, that’s part of why I really miss miss Hollywood was not riding your decision or a family decision.

Did it ever come up? So I’m, you know, I don’t know, half a foot taller than my dad and a lot heavier. There was even if it was in the cars even had, I had the attributes and size to be a jockey, he would have steered both of us away. My sister actually wanted to try exercise riding and galloping horses. At one point when she was a team, I did that.

Nope. Just no part of it was the danger. And, and for somebody who did something, you know, somebody who puts their life on the line, six, seven, eight times a day, five times a week, he was really over-protective in, in that regard, like the conversation of football would come up. He’s like, no. Um, and from, you know, if we took interest in, in riding it, it’s also for him, he recognized what a difficult lifestyle it is, what a struggle it can be.

And. For him as good as you, what is his, as it’s said, his job and as much success as he had, he didn’t. Yeah, guys, he really didn’t enjoy it as much as he should have. Cause he was always, he’s watching his weight. He could win five races in a day and win a stakes race. He couldn’t go out that night and have a drink and a steak and he would, he’d be eight pounds heavier the next day.

You know? So recognizing that it’s a hard life, it’s a difficult life theme being that of a writer, especially if you’re you’re fighting weight. So that’s always something that was. Even if we wanted to, he would have steered us in a different direction as best as he could. At what point did you decide that you wanted racing to be what you did for a career?

So I was too big to be a writer again, even if that was something I had interest in, which I didn’t, I was too small to be, to do anything. I was a really good ball player, baseball player. I loved basketball, loved football, but I recognize that a pretty, you know, being a good baseball pitcher, there’s not much call for, you know, a left-hander who’s fastball tops out at like 80 miles an hour, you know, there just isn’t.

So it’s not like those dreams were crossed pretty early on. Knew I loved sports. And television seemed to be kind of a natural fit as a way to stay close to the game without actually participating. Um, and my first job was in New York. Um, at news 12 in the Bronx, a one man band carrying your own tripod shooting, all of the sports we were covering, you were doing, you know, you were on producing your you’re doing your own editing and, um, That felt like that was like the broadcasting grad school experience that I needed and doing that for a few years.

And I was in my early twenties and fell in love with it immediately. And even though I wasn’t at the time planning on getting into trouble and horse racing, I say this in a pot, this isn’t a. Is this an insult to the sport of thoroughbred racing, but once you’re in it, it’s like the mud, right? He thinks you’re out, you wind up back in one way or the other, but I couldn’t be happier with the way things have worked out and how much fun I’ve had over the last, I don’t know, 10, 12 years of, uh, working in, in television broadcasting for horse racing.

No. Speaking of fun. I mean, obviously you’re not going to have as much fun this week. And at Tampa is we Oak lawn? We’re freezing in the infield. Tom, we’re going to miss you, man. We’re going to do first time, the first time to Tampa first Tampa Bay Derby this weekend. Never been to Tampa. Yeah. It’s, it’s absolutely gorgeous here.

Um, again, I, as I heard, it was like in a low forties, the other morning, it really windy. So the temperature is risen. This is probably what they were hoping for. Pegasus. We take down and it goes three parts, but it’s gonna be gorgeous this weekend. And from what I understand, not having experienced it myself just yet.

Kind of the buzz around the track guys, you know, you’ve been there, some of the smaller tracks on there, Marty days. There’s, there’s nothing, nothing like it. They roll out the red carpet. They know how to put on a good show that catered to the fans and the handicappers and everybody kind of getting together, seeing trainers and jockeys at bear racetrack that they wouldn’t see otherwise.

It’s awesome. And, and Tampa, while there’s, there’s racing here, as often as it is, this is the day. This is the day they kinda, they live for. And I’m as productive as the Tampa Bay Derby has been in recent years in terms of horses, having success on the triple crown trail and, and moving forward, it’s become a much more significant.

Important event and I’m really looking forward to tomorrow. Well, let’s talk about the specifics. Laffite the Tampa Bay Derby full full field, full ish field. I should say of 11, go to post. It’s going to go as race 11. Do you have a view on this race? Yeah, I want to know how good win-win when it isn’t this a similar conversation that we had with.

Didn’t scroll. You know, how talented is he when, when, when has more experience than hidden scroll, but when, when, when it never got around to terms, he’s never faced greatest stakes company. You know, he, he shatters the seven for a long record here at Tampa Bay downs, one 29 and one 20 and 89, 100th and the 99 buyer speed figure training like a house of fire at Trombetta knows how to campaign.

I did three year old, sweet Northern St. The actual. Oh, sign favorite for the Oh six Kentucky Derby. Somebody dumped a truckload of money on sweet, Northern St. Right before post time, Barbara Rose should have been favored. Um, you know, sweet, Northern St. Second said Bernadini and the Preakness. So Trombetta, this isn’t uncharted territory for my Trombetta.

I guess my question is with Iran or teas. Taking over and you have to feel for Hooley NP, mental, you know, but this is, this happens in racing when a three-year-old comes sometimes from a little bit of a smaller circuit, win-win win based at fair Hill in Maryland when it gets serious, you’ll see the star jockey sometimes replace a rider with lesser experience on these type of stages.

But what do you guys think the strategy is with? Win-win wins the horse he’s fast, but sometimes has trouble getting out of the gate. And just one in last, the first facet, like where do you guys see win-win win, being placed early on. I think it’s interesting with Iran, right? It’s it’s Iran is not the guy that you feel like is going to hustle a horse to the front.

When you look at this race, there’s a lot of pace in the race. And so it feels like a great approach would be for Iran to just let him kind of get out of the gate when whichever way he prefers to get out of the gate. If he wants to get out slow. That might actually play into the hands of, of the race and what the pace set up is going to be in here to speed drawn to the outside with zenden who’s coming out of the swale.

So stretching out, um, and, and these young horses, there’s a lot of pace. I, you know, I, I really, I was going to make a joke earlier. I wish when win wins, uh, the rest of his name was no matter what, might’ve been very fun for them. Um, when, when too many characters you only get an, a team that’s pretty good.

Yeah. When, when, when no matter what, um, I’m trying to, to fall for taxes, um, the, the horse that’s out of clothes, hatches, the topical, uh, coming off of a break since November, he was actually the workmate of hidden scroll that if you were watching SBTV you saw the workout where were hidden scroll kind of got after him.

I would be concerned that taxes is showing up in this spot because. You know, ma wanted to send them to, cause it would be an easier spot because both horses are owned by Judd Mont. I would imagine they just wanted to keep them separate. I think there’s an opportunity for this horse to really pieces he’s.

He’s got the base the best late pace figures that are going to run in front of him. Um, so I think that he could be interesting, but he also could be one of those horses. That’s going to be over bet. The brief connections, all of those situations. I could see that 12 to one morning line and ended up being six to one.

Uh, so obviously you want to wait to see what the tote board looks like. It’s a very tough race with all this pace and all these young horses. You’re trying to figure out what’s going to happen. I wish tactics was a little bit more competitive with hidden scroll. In some of those in those works, you were, you were referencing.

I always have as a personal prejudice, a little bit of a hesitant betting, a horse who’s been getting smoked in his morning, drilled by a superior rival, but you’re right. The connections themselves are going to draw attention to it. You see Judd Mont colors and Billy Musk name at Tampa and Jose Ortiz aboard board that the human element is superior.

So tactic is biggest to take some money. Um, well-defined. Sometimes, and we’ll discuss this tomorrow on the Fox show, but sometimes predicting, you know, the pace of a race can be as tricky as predicting the outcome of a race. If you’ll remember the narrative going into the Sam Davis is that the pace was supposed to be pretty hot and a long shot going for gold drawn down towards the inside.

You had, Nick’s go to evacuate. He’ll be in New York for the Gotham on Saturday. They’re supposed to be quicker than well-defined and the lady they spring the latch and well-defined because every one of the first turn. Uh, he’s in front, on the clubhouse. Turn you look up there and well-defined as in front by length and a half with a 47 second half mile doing things relatively easy.

And does what a good, a good horse should take full command. And, and why is the field and the Sam Davidson seven to one. Um, this time well-defined, as you mentioned, is drawn inside towards the speed and sometimes the seven to one shot. Can sneak into the back door and in that type of circumstance, maybe a lack of respect, even though we knew well-defined was a good horse going in, I don’t see him getting away.

And I think some of the other jockeys are going to keep an eye on him and make sure that if he’s going to make the lead well-defined in problem Morales, that he’s gonna have to work a little bit harder, but also remember a lot like at Oaklawn when they go from the Southwest to the rebel here at Tampa, when they go from the Sam Davis or the Tampa Bay Derby, the distances are not.

Being extended. It’s not a mile and a 16th to a mile. And Nate, if you’ve got a mile and an eighth prep in early March at Tampa, like nobody would be here. Um, so the fact that it remained that a mile and a 16th, this is well-defined wheelhouse. He popped like a 91 buyer speed figure at this distance, uh, as a two-year-old and obviously the wind in the sand Davis.

I’m just, my question is how much more pressure is going to be ratcheted up. On well-defined coming off of a race where we were supposed to have pace didn’t and he took full advantage. It is always amazing. We spend all this time designing these races and then you see those unexpected things happen. But I do think particularly the point JK made about that, the other potential speed zenden being drawn outside.

I do think it will hot up as far as win-win wind goes. I think JK is also right. That a poor break might not be the end of I’m in this spot, but I really want see that horse break a lot better just in terms of future potential and to show being a little bit more serious of a race horse, get away from there, settle in, let those leaders do their thing and see if that closing kit can be same love feet, your feet to the fire here.

Who is your selection? Are you prepared to give a selection for the Tampa Bay Derby or the folks have to tune into Fox tomorrow? No, no, no. The horse we haven’t even discussed yet in, and I’m going with three maker. Um, Oxley is always a good story. He was the owner of a Derby winner and a one with Monarchos, you know, with Todd Fletcher and all the horses.

He’s running the Tampa Bay Derby, Mark Cassie, this’ll be the eighth consecutive year. He’s run a horse in the Tampa Bay Derby. He won with his first perspective. He hasn’t won since, but he’s been close. Date of honor was second, a couple of years back to. Tap writ last year, flame through over second to Quip and dream maker, you can’t judge him based on, and this is something else we’ll illustrate on the Fox show.

Don’t judge him on what he’s done against six company thus far in the grade. One hopeful he’s trapped inside just gets covered with dirt. You see when he swings out, just take. In dirt from head to tail, ran on evenly favorite and agreed one Breeder’s integrity. And his race was over before it started me.

Some would leave in a gait or squeezed or pinched back. I have to go back and watch the race. So you can’t judge him for his stakes race appearances based on those two races, they put him away. They gave him some time off, he’s come back a much better, bigger, more mature race horse. And Cassie’s three roles as well as they’ve been running.

In new Orleans at fairgrounds, the risen star winter war will obviously, uh, this Colt DreamMaker showing that tactical speed in the two turn allowance, race, the prep, the Tampa Bay Derby I’ve been, he sits the trip and this is more of a value thing, I think from just passing the eye test. I think when, when, when it looks like the most talented race horse in the field.

Um, but maybe there’s a rest versus rusting for win-win when skipping the Sam Davis a little bit more rates and see the race under his belt for a dream maker, the trip upside. And I think you’d get a square price. I think I’m going with. Three maker, at least as of right now, I have like, I dunno, 30 hours and you can of course, tune in and see all the final selections and all the quality analysis on Fox sports tomorrow.

Check local listings. Let’s move it up to New York, freezing New York at the moment. Hopefully the weather is going to be okay for this Gotham stakes tomorrow, which goes as race. Number 10. I have not looked ahead, but it has been in the twenties this week. So we should take a quick look and see, I do not think it should affect racing.

I don’t think it’s anything that’s going to be that dire, but it has been bone yelling out there the last couple of days. And I just want to be able to. It’s fun of and tease Andy and Maggie ball three degree bombing. Perfect. Yeah, appreciate that very much as, as for the race itself, is this just the Instagram show?

Do you think it’s more complicated than that? Where, where are you leaning here? You know, it’s been a long time since we saw Instagram, Instagram race. Um, And, you know, he might, he might win the Gotham and, and, and, and that’s fine, but from a wagering standpoint, like, does he, does he feel like you could key him?

You could single him in whatever wagering sequence or using what, and that’s fine, but does that, isn’t that still a bad bet horse? That’s going to be such a short price. We haven’t seen him since August of his two-year-old season. Um, there’s so much speed in this race while, from what we’ve seen of him.

Yeah, sure. That that’s, that’s great. He looked like the best two year old in the country a hundred years ago. I’m gonna have to, to, to prove it to me at least, you know, once before we just assume that everything has gone well since, and he’s progressed and he’s matured and he’s a bigger, better badder version of the Instagram we saw last summer at Delmont.

I think that’s fair. The advice I gave in the column I wrote, the online partner to sky sports racing was if you’re really interested in Instagram and you’re in England considered taking the 20 to one for the Kentucky Derby and leaving the even money that you’re going to get them in this race, it’d be a little bit more fun and maybe more value if with a stylish performance here, that price is going to have at least which alternative are you interested in here?

Laffite. I think, I think that he’s going to be, he’s the absolute buzz horse. If everybody waders on high coal that says there’s the one, like he could be favored over. Everybody was all over school because of the anticipated. Faith meltdown. We discussed this in, in previewing. The Tampa Bay Derby has to just, you know, predicting pace can be very tricky.

These jockeys aren’t robots. They’re going to look around, they’re going to read live how much. Speed. There is with the presence of Instagram with Nick’s go, who, who is, is quicker than I think what we saw at Tampa. And now he’s turning back in distance. We’ll see what approach there is. Their mind controls very quick.

I think mind control by the way. It’s a great trip. Just off the speed, much better as fast. So if I’m looking at this just from a race shape, Standpoint and I’m looking from somebody off the pace because Hy-Ko will be over, over wagered. Uh, is it print, is it tick flu? Is that how we’re saying works for me?

That works for you? Um, I think that’s where I’m going to probably wind up here, at least again, looking for some value, looking for a number because I, I assume. Yeah, Tiffin flu for asthma sin. I think 12 to one in the morning line. Um, I think from that trip on the outside, these one turn mile races at Gotham, uh, at, uh, at aqueduct I’m, I’m looking for some outside tactical speed with as much early intensity.

We are expecting a wound up with him, but it’s always, it’s tricky with a Gotham. Cause we’re looking at this as a Derby prep. It’s been a long time since it’s producer Derby, winter running secretary. It’s the last horse that won. Both the Gotham and the Kentucky Derby. And it’s a tricky approach for three roles themselves that are, you know, you had the Withers, that was a two turn race.

Now the Gotham, that’s a one turn race. And then they would Morial going a mile and an eighth while for the Tampa Bay Derby. And I don’t know what’s going to happen with the sample lead bank or the two rebels that we see next week. We know that we’re looking at horses that are potentially on the Derby slash triple crown trail.

A lot of the horses we’re looking at in. The Gotham, these are probably horses that are going to be at their best at sprint or middle distance races. So interesting to see race shape and how we feel about the winter coming out. And if that’s the horse that finds himself on the Derby trail, you have the points 85 room available, 50 to the winner.

And for everyone who’s so curious as to what, who Instagram is today, as opposed to who he was. It seems like the question of the race. I did some looking 46 is the balmy high in New York tomorrow. So you won’t be able to mock them too badly, but it’ll still be a I’m from California 46. It’s like 10 below Jonathan Saba.

We were at Oman hiding in a men’s room from the elements Southwest. He hadn’t ratted you out on that one yet, but I wish he had, this is the kind of gossip that brings in listeners. JK. You got to give the goods next time. I, I was worried about the delivery of fitting it in to say like, Hey Laffite or that time we were hanging out in the bathroom, it needed some context in the setup.

I didn’t know if we had the time. Oh my goodness. Laffite pink warms at warm men’s room. That’s where you would find Jonathan and I, if it’s that cold rebel up day, that’s where you can find Jonathan and I, the men’s Germanian field. Oh my goodness. Laffite pinkeye the third. Thank you so much for your time today.

Knock them dead tomorrow. Folks can check it all out on the Fox sports network, local listings. I appreciate it guys. Thanks so much. This was awesome. Cheers. And now we’d like to welcome to the, in the money players, podcast, horse owner, and better Tampa expert leading owner at the moment at Tampa rich Avril.

Rich, how are you? My friend. I’m good. Thanks for having me fair. You were talking about what you like about Florida racing. I’d like to hear some more of that on air. Well, I mean, I was, you know, I was a part of Florida racing back when they were just at Calder and the purses were, and, uh, I mean, you know, now it’s, it’s, it’s become, it’s become a lot, a lot, a lot better place to be in the, uh, in the winter.

Now that golf stream is taken over. So, uh, I mean, it’s, it’s just. No, I’m here. I’m from here, born and raised. So, you know, I just, I like to watch, I like to watch my horses, you know, so if I feel like, you know, one morning I got to den that to wind down a golf stream, I can drive three hours and go watch him.

You know, if I got one at Tampa, I drive an hour North and I go watch it. So, I mean, you know, if I owned, uh, you know, to me, horse racing is kind of like owning your own sports franchise. You know, they, you wear your own uniform. You know, is your silks and you know, you, when you get a trophy, sometimes, you know, you get your picture taken.

So that’s the way I look at it. So I’m pretty sure, you know, if, well, you know, God willing, most owners want to watch their team on Saturday or Sunday or whatever day it is. I don’t, I don’t know if I even told you this rich and I were talking the other day. And, uh, and I was, I was, uh, just kind of, you know, wondering how he does first off the claim, cause he’s such a good handicap or I assume that he would be able to pick up some really great opportunities and in not counting his partnerships, just the horses that run under Avril racing, LLC in the last five years, 33%.

Out of 63 runners, one first off the claim, the one 27% ran. Second. That’s a guy who, who, who knows how to handicap racism. When he drops a tag on a horse, he’s going to move that horse up no matter who the trainer is. And I think that that’s. An unbelievable sign of, of, of, uh, of an owner that understands what he’s looking at.

Uh, and, and so I think that that’s one of my, if he that’s one of Rich’s greatest accomplishments as a trainer, not so much to pay any price claim who didn’t win first out. Um, but, uh, rich talk a little bit about what you look for when you, when you’re going to claim one. Well, that’s, you know, that’s funny because a lot of people, they, they handicap or they.

Claim horses based on, I don’t know a breeding or this, or they might do this or they might do that. And that’s basically what I do. I just, I don’t watch replays. I don’t watch, you know, I don’t do like the breeding or anything. I just. It’s like a feel thing. So like, I’ll look at a race and I’ll be like, you know, this horse belongs here or doesn’t, or, you know, he’s been running over his head or he should be in this race and then I’ll claim it off of that.

And then typically, you know, I mean, I want to win. So I mean, you know, I want to go to war with, you know, a tank, you know, an army, like, you know, I mean, not so like I’m, you know, I tell my trainers, I want the best possible, you know, everything don’t I just want to win. I don’t want to worry about. You know, uh, you know, cheating on this or cheating on, I mean, not cheating, cheating, but like cutting corners is I guess, a better word.

Um, you know, I, you know, I wanna, I want to do, you know, whatever, if, you know, they need their hocks done or Seibel’s done their teeth done and they need massage, they need, you know, whatever, I don’t care what the money comes. You know, I just want the horse to have the best possible chance to win, treat them all like stakes horses.

It sounds like which is, which is how you win races. Well, not only that, but you notice a lot of my claims. We take, we take our time. I mean, it’s, I mean, I’ll have two, three months. I mean, look at paying the price. For example, we claimed him, he didn’t run back for, I don’t know how long then he ran in one spot and then he didn’t run back a lot for another.

So it’s like, I, I don’t want to run just to run. Like I want to run when my guns loaded. Now how similar is the process of claiming to the actual handicapping you do have the races. Is there a lot more pen and paper and numbers involved when it comes to the horses you’re betting, as opposed to the ones you’re looking to own, you can be a great handicapper and still lose.

I mean, you have to be up to no out of that is to me, it’s some of the best. Some of the best gamblers in the world know how to handicap and that, I mean, I know a lot of people that can handicap good, but they can’t bet words. You know what I mean? So, I mean, I think, I think that I can bet I bet better than average.

And I think I got handicapped better than average. So the combination together, you know, it makes, it makes it good for me, but I don’t, I don’t know. I really don’t do handicapping as much as John, as far as the claims go, you know, I just kind of look for. You know, I, I like older horses, like, you know, horses that are, you know, made horses that might, you know, be tailing off that, you know, sometimes, you know, a fresh, you know, fresh barn, fresh feed, just a different environment, you know, sometimes just spices them up.

I don’t really claim too many like condition horses never went twos never went threes. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense for me. I mean, for example, I could claim a Florida bread. Uh, six for a long Florida breads it’s one like 10 times for 12 five, and the next race he’s running is the $44,000 purse.

So, I mean, right there, you could get all your money back. You could claim an open horse for 25,000 that’s one, seven, eight, nine times. And his next race is an, or then optional 25 and he’s running for 50,000. So, I mean, those are the type of horses that I, you know, I like you mean no that there. You know, know that they’re, you know, qualified and you know that they are, you know, An established horse and there’s not a lot more, there’s not as much risk involved in that.

And I typically don’t claim those, you know, horse has been in for 40 and all of a sudden they’re in for five. I never buy or claim the horses that there’s a lot of people that claim it’s to say, Oh, this is a tap. It, they paid 200,000 for it. Oh my God. It’s running for 16. What a bargain? Yeah. What a bargain.

Now we get to lose JK and just a couple of minutes rich, if you’re game. Maybe you can hang around, but while we have JK on the line, the first thing I want to ask is what is this story about him? Uh, not showing up at the craps table in Las Vegas. What happened out there? Well, you know, I’m, I’m kind of surprised thought I was getting stood up again when you call them.

I said to him, because I didn’t, I didn’t think he was going to call it. That was gonna be a no show again, you know, he was like four days ago talking about this thing and then all of a sudden you call it. So I was like, Oh, he did it again. Cause you know, he swore on his life. I got the text message on his life.

He was coming to play crack. Thank God. He didn’t because you know what, you know, everything happens for a reason. And you know, there you go. You didn’t need kitchen mushing you down there at the, uh, at the table. That’s for sure. Jake. Okay. I’m going to let you just wanted to see them actually roll the dice because he’s got a little flavor in them.

You know what I mean? He does have style blow on them on tap his fingers. You know what I mean? You know, he’s got a little. You got a little style besides those shirts you wear. And he does have a little spot. I’m a little disappointed though. I think part of the reason that I couldn’t get over there, cause I call the hard 10, the five, five, I call it the junior.

Say out, you don’t agree with that. So it was going to be a conflict of venture. Who’s your fifth? No, two, two fives is puppy Paul’s. Yes. Yes. I’ve heard that. J K, you got to get out of here, but we are not going to let you get out of here. We’re going to have you rapid fire your thoughts on some of these stakes races coming up, and then I’ll keep rich here a minute longer to get some of his thoughts.

Uh, what is your final selection in the Gotham? We talked about it a little bit before and, uh, the Tampa Bay Derby at least. And any others that you’ve looked at that you want to very quickly go over and then we’ll kick you. The Gotham Instagram has even money. I get that. So people are saying, Oh duh, there’s two horses in there.

Take out reducers much better. If Baffert ever runs them on the turf they’re done to me and the Kirin horse, I can’t pronounce it high, high, cold, or whatever that horse can’t win to me. Talk a full, could you get two terms that you put them on a bus? There’s no way this horse is going to is going to continue to be the same horse.

He was, I think, Instagram gallops in that race. As far as the Tampa Bay Derby, um, I felt like, uh, uh, you know, I’m going to give this little, uh, this little mock piece of look here. The, uh, the horse that we talked about earlier, tack tack, it says, I think they could heat up a little bit. He could come running late and then, uh, and the turf steaks there, uh, there’s, there’s two horses that are, that that appear to be, um, And, and, and, and a stellar agent, I think could be a little bit tough on them.

That horse looks like that could get the lead finished. Well, in the last race hasn’t, hasn’t run since the Cub juvenile Philly, turf. Uh, she was 71 to one that day. Um, and then also, I think Hawk’s Morrison, uh, went again at Tampa, but, uh, don’t listen to me, listen to the cake, but, uh, uh, double R he’ll. It’ll let you know who’s going to win there.

All right. You go J K. Take care. We’ll catch up with you for the show next week. If, if I don’t talk to you over the weekend, but thank you for your efforts today. So, so rich, rich Avril, as far as I can tell those initials are R a and he just called you RR. Is that just another kitchen mistake or is there a story behind this nickname?

Nah, it’s a cartoon Richie rich. So I don’t know one of the guys in the figure members of Matisse and them started calling me double R and it just, and it just stuck. So that’s what they call me. You have blonde hair and a red sweater with a dollar sign on it. What are we, what are we talking about? No, I don’t, I don’t know, just Richie rich and it just, I don’t know, you know how it is nicknames, just, uh, nicknames come about.

And so, I mean, I got nicknames for different groups, I guess, but yeah, that’s what they call me. Double R how did you meet up with those guys? Um, I met, see, I met ogre, um, Tommy Owen. I met him at golf stream one day. I had a horse running and, uh, I met him through a mutual friend, uh, an agent Scotty silver, who was agent for Trevor McCarthy and, uh, So I Scotty stayed at my house in Tampa and, uh, you know, whatever, we went down there and he was friends with, uh, with Tommy.

And so we met, uh, my horse one. We went to Joe’s stone crabs, and you know, we’ve just been friends ever since. And, uh, we were in Vegas one night and, uh, I was in Vegas for the Orleans tournament a long time ago, like 2005. And, uh, So we were there and he’s like, Hey, you know, you know, I haven’t seen you in awhile, what’s going on?

And I was, Oh, not too much, you know, just, uh, you know, been Ron. And he said he got any horses again, actually I got one running, uh, tonight at Meadowlands is like, really? He’s like, yeah, he goes, you like it? I go love the horse. And he, uh, so he looked at it, it was a six horse field. It was dutrow Kelly Brene Pletcher, you know, and then like me.

And he’s like, Oh, he’s got no shot. And, uh, we went wire to wire, wind tend to one, you know, we all bet. And, uh, and if we went from there, I think we went to two MGM, you know, play dice one when somewhere else they blacked out. It was like an Epic night. So we’ve been friends ever since. And then I started going to Saratoga, you know, just to see him and, you know, hang out for, you know, a few days here and there.

And that’s, you know, I, that’s how I met Paul. And then, uh, Uh, you know, got to know Duke, uh, you know, pretty well. And, um, went to dinner with Duke one night and met his wife. And I, you know, said, ah, you know, I, you know, I’m dating this girl that, you know, I think you guys really get along with and you know, sure enough, they’re good friends.

Now. Now we do, you know, me and Duke and the family and my family, his family, we do stuff all the time. So it’s, uh, It’s been fun, tremendous fun. They’re a good, good group of guys for the sport. And, uh, um, I’m happy to be partners with them and I’m happy to be handicappers with them and, you know, it’s, uh, it’s fun.

Very cool. All right, let’s talk about some of these races. Let’s start off with your thoughts on the Gotham. Are you like me and JK thinking it’s as simple as Instagram for the win or like our previous guests, who’s going to have to look elsewhere from a value perspective. Where do you land? Yeah, I think, I think Instagram is, you know, he was, he was the best, uh, that’s two year old last year, in my opinion.

Um, you know, now he’s, I think they’re doing right one turn mile, you know, I think it’s, you know, everything is set up for him to be there. I have a weird feeling that they might try to just make him relax a little bit. Um, and I just, I’m just going to take a, just a shot with, Nick’s go. I’m just thinking that, you know, sometimes when these races have so much speed that somebody gets away and, uh, you know, I just, you know, maybe, you know, next goal will be in it.

Um, I’m going to throw out is Tampa rays, some horses don’t like Tampa. I mean, it’s, it’s a funny track. Um, You know, if he can have the lead all the way around and get snapped on the wire and the breeders’ cup. I mean, he can hit the board and the Gotham. So I think that I’m going to try to play. Nick’s go somewhere, somewhere in the mix.

Hopefully, you know, he has inside. He’s going to just go and maybe they might just, just leave him be a little bit enough for him to hang in there. But if Instagram is the same horse, he was last year. He’s definitely. He’s definitely going to win. Let’s talk about these Tampa races. What we’ll do if it’s okay with you is I’ll ask you about the three graded stakes individually.

And then if you have any spot plays or any thoughts elsewhere on the card that you feel like dropping in, feel free. Let’s start off with race nine, which is the Hillsborough grade two on the turf. What do you think of this one? Rim SCA is, you know, it’s probably the best horses in the race. Um, You know, I, you know, depending on what her, uh, tar, you know, I mean, and usually Chad, Chad usually comes in and dominates this race.

So, I mean, probably I, you know, I’ll probably just use the two, probably use the two Chad Brown horses. I mean, Della core. I think I heard this is the horses last, uh, last race. Uh Hawksmoore. Yep. Um, I don’t, I’m not a huge Bravo fan, so he’s going to have to beat me. I’m probably going to stick with the two Ortiz’s in place and play those, uh, the two chat around horses on the moon again, and rim SCA for you.

JK I’m thinking is wondering if Hawksmoore won’t lead them on a Merry chase on that Tampa turf course. How dangerous is early speed. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s very fair. It’s a very fair, um, turf course. It’s a very fair. The one thing I will say. Is these Tampa riders, which most of these are not Tampa riders, but usually there’s nobody who gets an easy lead.

So, I mean, you know, he could get an easily, but I don’t know what Chad having two in there. I would think that one of them he’s going to ask to be pretty close, very, very logical assumption. Let’s move on to race. Number 10 at Tampa on Saturday, it’s the Florida Oaks. We got the quick thought from JK. How do you see it?

I am going to try to be concrete Rose. That one is that one is going to have to, to, to beat me. I’m probably going to play some way around in the exotic, the seven blows. Wow. Um, the horse closed in a pretty slow pace. I’m going to get great value. People are going to say, Oh, this horse only won a maiden race at Tampa.

I mean, if you don’t know, Tampa’s maiden special way, races are as tough as anywhere Saratoga. I mean, there, I mean, it’s, every race has got my Chad Pletcher. I mean, they’re all in these maiden races. So, um, That’s that’s exactly why they, they split, I think, early on race. Uh, I dunno, there’s there was a three-year-old old race on the turf maidens and they ended up splitting the race for this.

For this day. So there’s two of them made in Philly. Three-year-olds so it’s the third race and I believe, uh, uh, the fifth. So, I mean, they’re great bedding races, uh, always a big feat and, uh, there’s always, you know, Claremonts in them grant motions in, um, Della cor I mean, these are some of the best trainers.

I mean, if you go down, I mean, who’s the best Trey, who’s the best turf trainers that we got in the game right now. I mean, it’s gotta be. I mean, it’s gotta be Claremont. It’s gotta be Chad. It’s gotta be, I mean, Della core has gotta be right there. Yeah. Everybody you’re talking about would be on that list.

And there, I mean, there, there’s one of those in every maiden race everywhere. It’s crazy. It’s absolutely crazy. So, and then, you know, running for 20 some 22,000 or something, uh, that’s, it’s crazy. But Tampa surf course is one of the nicest in the country and, you know, I mean, these people aren’t, you know, they’re, they got bigger and better things that they’re hoping for and those races.

So I’m going to take a shot with blow out there. Um, just, just because I know I’m going to get good, good value. Uh, it looks like the horses working good. I didn’t get a chance to look up who the horses are. Woo hoo hoo. That, um, who she’s working against I’ll do that today. But, um, I think I’m going to take a shot with that horse just because I think, you know, it was a slow pace.

The number is a little, a little, little slow. But sometimes they do that, you know, on, you know, the horse could have went faster if they went faster. So he just, the horse did what he wanted. First time out when. Um, you know, I think that’s hard to do, to get a horse to win two turns first time out. Um, and then huge, huge rider change to, you know, Jose Ortiz from Gallardo.

Let’s move along rich to the Tampa Bay Derby, the big one eyes of the racing world. There’ll be here on Saturday, which way do you see it? I am going to go with win-win when, um, I was there that day. I mean, this, this horse looks the part. I mean, this horse could not have one any easier. Um, it’s got a trip over the track.

They left the horse here, which is nobody usually does. Um, and to train over this surface, I mean, it’s a huge, huge, huge, huge advantage. And this, I mean, this horse could not. Been more impressive last time. And that’s, that’s who I’m going to go with. I mean, it, you know, there was, there was like, I believe there was a delay at the gate.

Something happened, um, the horse didn’t break too good. So I mean, the horse can rate and once again, I mean, you get another jockey change Pimintel to Iran. I mean, you know, I read a wins, every race, it seems like, I mean, this, this horse was just visually. Impressive that day. And that’s who I’m going to go with.

I like it. It’s uh, sometimes you got to land at the lower end of the OD spectrum, and that’s a nice inside type angle talking about the training over the track. Mike Trombetta, underrated a trainer win-win win in my column. I write in the UK was my selection as well. You can lock in 11 to four. If you’re betting over there, what price you think this horse is going to be?

Are they gonna, are they gonna crush them or are there enough questions that you think win-win might be near the five to two in the morning line? I believe you’re going to get, I believe you’re going to get that. I mean, you know, Cassie’s going to take a ton of money. Um, you know, he, he’s going to take money.

Um, you know, Pletcher always takes money. Um, I think, I think you’re going to get, I think you’ll get two to one, five to two. I, I think you are because there’s enough questions about going through turns and you know, and this and that. And. I believe you’re going to get, I get, you’re going to get that price.

I believe looking over the rest of the Tampa card, is there a spot or two, you would point listeners to, uh, maybe get involved or a place you’re particularly excited about? I liked the four in the first speed. Cutting back six and a half to six. Big drop main, special to main 16. Maybe they want to win a race this day.

I don’t know. Um, usually people take shots on this day. Usually they Jack the persons up $5,000, every race, um, for the little guys, but they didn’t do it this year. They’re saying they didn’t have. They didn’t have the handle or, you know, I don’t know. Um, but usually, you know, people point for this day, thinking that they’re going to Jack the prices up.

So, uh, I think ours is going to be good. I, I absolutely love the five and the second limit. Second race back to back. I love that horse. I got, I gotta bet back on that horse. Like I said earlier, it’s tough for a horse to win two turns. First time that this was tried it, um, I don’t, I don’t exactly remember all my comments on this, but I know that I loved that or absolutely loved back-to-back.

Uh, what else did I look at? Um, third race. I gave you a long shot. I think the seven, I think the seven has got a shot. Uh, second time, sir, Santino stays on

drainer change. I think ours has got a big shot at 20 to one. And what else? Uh, there’s a horse. I love, absolutely love. Um, Rumor is that the six rates to six can run first time starter into mischief. Interesting proposition. And I absolutely love digital age and the seventh race. Okay. Love love. Love. If I get eight to one, I could be a rich man.

You’ll live up to the nickname. Number eight in the seventh digital age gets it done. As long as you’re marking our cards here all the way through are there you have, you’ve given us plenty, but, uh, anything else in the other races? Um, I don’t, I don’t think I, I, I knew you guys are going to ask, so I asked six, a couple spot plays.

Perfect. Perfect. So that’s, that’s about it. I mean, I like, I got good. I got good opinions. I got good opinions on this day. So. That’s great. Uh, but yeah, that digital age, I mean, that was one of the most impressive races I’ve ever seen a Tampa. I mean, Gallardo did everything he could possibly do to lose that race.

Um, he was in a 10 hole. Maybe it wasn’t all his fault. Maybe the horses, I don’t know, but Boris was why the whole race, like just. Checking. Just, I mean, it was just ridiculous. And then he like, got him out on the turn and Tampa doesn’t have the longest stretch. And I mean, he just asked him and he just flew, I mean, flew down the stretch and then like, I don’t, it’s like almost impossible to be almost the last on the turn.

And then. When the rays Nell on let alone, when you win it. So pulling the horse up at the water and that’s what kind of turned them that this horse had. I mean, then the horse is working against, uh, you know, he’s working against, uh, a couple of horses that, you know, medal of honor, I believe ran and a two other than, and they worked together.

Um, you know, this is a three-year-old and running into older, you know, working against the older horse and, um, There’s a horse called Marshall Lee or whatever that horse won. First time out as a two year old run a big number. Um, so I mean, the horse is working in good company and I think you’re going to get eight to one because the number’s low.

I mean, like again, they’re Tampa horse and just broke his main at Tampa. I mean, they’re going to vet these horses, coming out, all these stakes races and, you know, motion and you know, all these other horses, Cassie that, you know, I believe that they’re going to all these horses with these bigger numbers, they’re going to be that’s who they’re going to be playing.

So I’m hoping to get close to that eight to one, the only problem. The name of the trainer might get you a couple of points under in the odds going out for Chad Brown. But, but I love the case and I love the passion and enthusiasm you bring to Florida racing and racing in general. Rich April. Thank you so much for your time today and for coming on.

Yep. No problem. Thanks for having me. We’ll talk to you soon. And that’s going to do it for this edition of the, in the money players podcast. I want to thank Laffite pinkeye. The third. I want to thank rich Avril and I want to thank Jonathan. Kinchin excellent contributions from all of you. Most of all, I want to thank all of you.

The listeners. Keep those tweets coming, hashtag ask ITM. I know we haven’t gotten to them in a couple of shows, but we’re going to be stockpiling them and we’ll be getting to them all soon. Want to thank our friends at the thoroughbred retirement foundation and 10 strike racing. This show has been a production of in the money media, in the money.

Medias. Business director is drew Kourtney. I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. We will be back, I think on Sunday, a rare Sunday show may be going live. I’m Peter Thomas foreign Italian. May you win all your photos. .

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