Players’ Podcast — February 22, 2011 — Saudi Cup Review

***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is our show for Monday, February 22nd. I’m your host, Peter Thomas Cornell. I’m back in Brooklyn, but I’m not in the bunker. I don’t know why I don’t really have an excuse for this, but I’m sitting upstairs at the, uh, at the dining room slash kitchen table, just because I feel like it.

And that’s the way it is back from a week in Saratoga, where I got to experience some proper winter. And then of course it’s snowing, but the snow here, nothing like. The inclement weather that our usual co-host on this program dealt with last week. We’ll start by asking them about that. We’re going to review racists from this weekend, from the previous weekend.

Cause he wasn’t on last week because of all that nonsense later in the show, Kim Weir is [00:01:00] here and we’re going to talk about a way that you can help out a great cause and potentially win yourself a $500 free bet in this year’s Kentucky Derby. The co-host I referenced, you already know who I’m talking about.

He is on the planet, Texas, the planet that was out there spinning in the solar system for a minute, but it seems like it’s back on its axis, the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen. What’s up JK, man. It was wild. It was wild that’s for sure. Um, well everybody. Okay. Let’s start here.  you know, you’re doing all right.

Yeah, everybody’s good. Uh, woke up, uh, woke up Monday morning and didn’t have any power. And that was a little bit tricky. And, uh, luckily a friend of mine, Mike valise, Mike V actually shouted him out. Um, during my mattress Mack hit on the Fox show, I said my own little mattress Mack, he, he lived next to a hospital.

And so he was, he was in a, you know, on a grid or in a grid, whichever the, for the pro uh, [00:02:00] proper term is that. Uh, kept power. So we ended up going over there and stayed there for two nights. And then we finally got our electricity back and then that same day, we got our electricity back later that afternoon, the water died.

Um, and the good news is about the water situation. A funny story is that we were going to go to the grocery store to try to find some stuff. Um, and my, my girlfriend shamed me for not. Showering before we went to the grocery store and I was like, look, man, it’s only been a couple of days. We don’t have any water.

What are you gonna do? Like, I mean, we don’t have any electricity. Like I’ll just, let’s go to the store, let’s get the stuff. I’ll come back and I’ll do it. And she gave me this look and I was like, fine, whatever. So I get in the shower and take a shower. We, we come back from the store. Water was dead. So thank God that happened.

And then you got shamed. Yeah, then we just went without water for a couple of days. You know, we had to go over to the public pool to get water, to be able to kind of operate the toilets and just, you know, it’s, uh, The the, the imperfect storm. It just, [00:03:00] you know, it got all of our big cities right at once, and it was record cold for a record amount of time.

And, and, uh, the way that our, our energy situation is set up, uh, we just weren’t prepared for it. How. Often does it snow in Texas at all? I mean, I feel, I feel like it doesn’t no, the last time you get, I always tell people once a year you get a, Oh, it might ice. We might cancel school day, once a year. That happens because we’re just not set up for it.

We don’t, we don’t own a snow truck or assault truck in the entire County, uh, in, in Travis County as a whole. We don’t, we just don’t have it. So when that happens, it’s problematic. The last time I can remember like a four or five day run where it was problematic was oddly enough, when the Packers played the Steelers in the Superbowl in Dallas that week.

Uh, that entire week, it was, uh, a snowy icy mess. So, but the crazy thing about it is, is I ate, had sushi on a patio last night. It’s 70 degrees and it’s 70 degrees right now, outside. So it’s [00:04:00] kind of like nothing ever happened at this point. There’s no snow. There’s not a, there’s no snow anywhere. You can’t find snow hidden anywhere.

It’s like nothing, basically like nothing happened. Uh, we’re still on a boil advisory, but it was precautionary. There wasn’t ever anything found in the water, but they’re just worried about all the issues that, uh, so. You know, back to normal. Well, I do appreciate that you fought the temptation to go to Cancun for the week, but we’ll leave that alone.

What would be the best meme I’ve ever? The best meme I’ve ever seen is the one with him, with the braid saying, uh, Ted Cruz denies, going to Cancun, one of the best memes ever. If we know who made that, I’d like to have them on JK. Plus there you go. Open invitation, open invitation for that one. What about your gambling?

Were you out of action literally, or did you somehow in the midst of all this, uh, personal professional turmoil find a way to get down? Gosh, I was sitting by the cell signal, got a little bit wonky, just cause I think a lot of people were using cell because it had nothing else. I mean, I was sitting by the window [00:05:00] watching races and replays and doing trip notes and, uh, and, and, you know, the occasional sporting event to keep, uh, to keep interested in occupied.

Yeah. I mean, it’s, uh, that show didn’t stop. I appreciate it. I hope you won. And it provided some comfort for you. Oh yeah, I look, I was alive for a pick five on. Maybe Thursday or Friday, if I want to hit that thing, I was in a helicopter it’s out of here, but it didn’t go well, the stakes a little bit higher.

The, the, the, the craziest, you know, the grocery stores were nuts too. You know, we, we waited in line for grocery store for two hours and then they were like, Oh, we’re basically out of everything. Then we found this little hole in the wall liquor store that we got in and we got a bunch of stuff and that felt like such a victory, just to know that at least we could be drunk to this entire process.

And then, and then, and then we, uh, ended up going to like a little Mexican market, you know, those kind of little smaller Mexican markets and got some stuff there. And then when we [00:06:00] finally got to the store, um, my girlfriend and I, we both have air pods. I put one in, she put one in and we went different ways so that we could make sure we collected all the things we needed.

It was, you know, it wasn’t fun in the moment, but looking back on it, it was a little bit of an adventure more than I would have preferred, but, uh, uh, very thankful for the things that we have. That’s for sure. No doubt about it. That’s that’s a good takeaway for sure. Let’s talk about that. Racing from this past weekend, first, the Saudi cup, I thought it was a match race between nix go and charlatan.

Ms. Sharif comes and spoils the party for John Gosden with an impressive late run through the stretch in Rihad. What did you make of this performance? JK? I haven’t seen anything about figures. Any info you have? I’d love to hear. No. I look at, you know, the winter  it might be misrep though. Look, he ran. Well, he got a nice little up, it felt like, uh, I’m not sure what the fractions were like, but if you see Charlotte and Nicks go ding dogging, [00:07:00] I’m guessing they weren’t going slow.

Um, I think some of the takeaways from that are that, uh, Nick’s go needs more time in between starts. Good guess, um, the one turn mile and an eighth, might’ve been too much for him having an animal like charlatan to his outside might have been too much for him. I sent a message to, to our group chat with Sean Borman and Jake Ballis.

I can’t remember the list of horses that I had laid out. The Knicks go had beaten and none of them could. Could even be on the same shed row, a charlatan. So I think that, that, you know, I think that, that all of those things combined are probably why you got the performance you got from nix go. And I think the other very simple thing you can say about charlatan is, is that he’s really damn good.

And if Nick’s go wasn’t in there, you would have won. No. I mean, that sounds right. A couple of, couple of followups, uh, would you, for the chances of Nick’s go winning, would you have preferred to see him go faster in that spot? We’ve talked [00:08:00] about that dynamic in other races where you prefer the speed horse to even go faster.

What do you think about, yeah. Tactically? No, not when, not when your main rival and I, I think. I think we can say a better horse is to you’re outside and is just as talented as you are, the faster you go. He can go that fast too. So a better horse, you definitely have the silver wig on for that one. Bitten.

I mean, I know, I know, I know the form of the races isn’t much, but it’s still, it’s still, there still is a breeders’ cup race. And there, even though if it is kind of a fake British cup race, I’m just saying you put them in a, you put them in a match race together. Charlatan wins eight of them. That’s interesting.

That’s interesting. I mean, I didn’t, I didn’t think that going in, I think coming out, you have a little more obviously of, of, of a case. I, I don’t think of going in either. I, I F I feel like it’s more of an opinion and it’s more of an exaggerated I’m on a podcast opinion, you know, I’m not going to be cutting in line [00:09:00] to, to, to bet against Nick’s go with some time and some prep and some other things like that.

I mean, You know, I, I do think that I do think that they can go ahead and engrave the sea on the med mild trophy and just wait a second, because if they have to, they can put the K in I in front of it. But I, it feels like charlatan is your met mile winner. Yeah, I don’t, I don’t disagree with that. I thought because of the doubts about Charlotte and as a stair.

That Nick that they would. And because of how impressively he stalked and pounced, um, against Nashville the last day, I thought Nick’s go might have a tactical advantage. And I, before the race would have said, I would prefer to see Nick’s go on the lead. But I agree had they just dead, dead scent from the get go.

He, I think this is an instance where he just gets beaten further for me, that argument that we make sometimes about speed horses. It’s not a speed horse should go as fast as they can. Always out of the gate [00:10:00] full stop. It’s a speed horse. Shouldn’t go slower than they have to, to run to their maximum efficiency while dispensing their speed as a weapon.

Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think the speed is a weapon thing. I think that that speed as a weapon thing is more about pressers, mid pack types and closers. Uh, you know, I think that, that, I think that that weapon is, is a more, is a more potent weapon against those types of horses because you’re taking them out of their comfort zone, pressers, um, mid pack and closers.

They want, they don’t want to run fast early and you put the pressure on the rider to not be too far back and maybe get a little bit closer than they should be, which will then take some starch out of their late run. But I think when you’re talking about. Your main rival being another speed type talented high cruising speed, speed type.

I don’t think the answer is let’s just see how fast we can go together. Cause I think that ends up setting it up for the other horse. Cause there’s [00:11:00] no breathers built in right efficiency is the term. I come back to time and time again. And I, I think of a horse like American Pharaoh and just. 12 clicking off 12, clicking off 12, clicking off 12, and then able to do that for an awfully long amount of time.

And there’s lots of ways to be inefficient. You can be inefficient because you went too fast. You can be inefficient because you went too slow, which is the situation that I think were inclined to complain about which wasn’t here as it went. It certainly did set up for mischief. Very, very impressive. Do you think he’s a serious player when it comes to the Dubai world cup in and races?

Like the breeders cup classic? Yeah. I mean, um, I don’t know. I’m sorry. I think those, the European types that, that when, you know, when the dirt races there, do I world cups of the world and, and, and, uh, even occasionally come over here and run second and our breeders cup classic. I, I, I always just kind of were like, Oh, that was, that was the day you wanted them.

And moving forward, I’m not necessarily certain that you do, you know, I don’t [00:12:00] know who we’re going to send for the Dubai world cup now, to be honest, I mean, you know, I would imagine that Maxfield and it’s a good transition probably to a conversation about him. I’d be shocked if he didn’t run there. Um, For the show.

I talked about Maxfield and where he might start next. And I know Brendan Walsh has been non-committal about the Dubai world cup, but if you look there’s been like, and I can just make up numbers. Now I have to be accurate on the show, but there’s been like 20, 24 Dubai world cups. And I think shake Moe has won as Godolphin has won nine.

And maybe by himself before Godolphin won one. So he’s won 10. And I think his brothers one, three, they basically won half of them. So to have possibly the best older horse in training. Uh, at a mile and a quarter or presumably at a mile and a quarter, you think they’re going to just keep them here at Palm Palm Meadows and, and train up for the, for, for the, you know, the alley Sheba, like stop, he’s going to go over there and run in that race.

What are they saying? Obviously they haven’t committed, but [00:13:00] just do it. I mean, I haven’t looked recently, but right after the ratios was extremely noncommittal, the whole, let’s see how the horse come down on the rail, so to speak. Yeah. Which is fine. Right now in the bedding Mishra four Maxfield, six Swiss skydiver, seven charlatan and nix go both at eight.

I doubt you’ll see either of them there and then a Chrysler barrel at, uh, at 10 military law at 10. Um, and then longer, longer the rest let’s talk about, I do want to pivot to Maxfield, but. I don’t, I’m not done with Charlotte and yet I love your car on him. Cutting back. Do you think he’s a little bit of a, he is a little bit of a non stair.

I mean, I just, I don’t think he was seen to his best effect at the, at the mile. And Nate, do you think that’s fair or do you think later in the year, under the right circumstances, he could run away at a mile a minute? No. No, I don’t think he’s, I don’t think he’s your Breeder’s cup classic winner. But he could be, I mean, right.

I mean, think about it, like, think about he, he didn’t really get to have an entire three-year-old year. [00:14:00] So think about all of these three-year-olds that we’re going to talk about today and, and, and, you know, and, and, and how they are slowly moving up the ladder and you don’t ever know they’re gonna be, that’s why the Derby is so great.

You didn’t know justify wasn’t getting a mile and a quarter until he got it. And then when the triple crown, you didn’t know, American Pharaoh was going to get the mile and a quarter until he got it and won the triple crown and the classic. So. We don’t know that charlatans not going to go a mile and a quarter.

I mean, we don’t, we don’t know it. And if we go by the thing that you’ve said that Gary Stevens has said, Richard Migliori said, is that the chance there’s a, it definitely leans that a mile and an eighth one turn plays more to stamina than you would think. It’s not an elongated sprint. It’s a, it’s a testing straightaway where you get no breathers.

And when you have two speed horses like that in the race, there’s really no breathers. And so, I mean, I think he can absolutely continue on, I mean, and the other thing to think about with charlatan, if I’m not [00:15:00] mistaken, and I don’t know if I talked to someone about this or heard it, but the, the way in which his, a stallion deal and the ownership situation has kind of laid out, it’s like, The owners that have him now this, the Starlight West, uh, group, they basically get, they get to control the racing career and, and they’ve already sold us his stallion rights.

So from a financial standpoint, what he does on the racetrack is kind of their last hurrah. And so. You know, for, for me. And there’s probably some kickers I would imagine for him, but I, you know, for me, if I own charlatan, I’d be thinking, okay, how do I get to the met mile? And then how do I get to the Whitney?

And then. And then I’ll make decisions, but how do I get to those races? Um, it doesn’t feel like Dubai would be the best way to get to the met mile. Do you, do you expect of the, have you read anything about them not going there? It feels to me like he won’t go, but that’s just me. If I [00:16:00] owned the horse. Yeah.

Um, someone’s out there blowing stuff with this $500 a microphone’s not supposed to catch that. Um, if you hear it, sorry. Um, no, I’d be shocked. I’d be shocked, you know, and it’s a mile and a quarter of the Dubai world cup. Right. It sure is. Yeah. I mean, what’s the point of doing that now and you knock them out for the rest of the season, you know, bring them here when the met mile and then try to win a grade one at a mile and eight against older horses.

You pretty much locked in a really attractive and interesting stallion prospect, right? I mean, he’s already pretty interesting showing his brilliance and the speed figures that he’s run. But if you could lock in something like that, I mean, he’d be really dangerous. Yeah. I mean the money is there reason, right?

It’s, it’s, it’s so much money, but it just feels like, I think you hit on a key point though, the one turn mile and an eighth with a pace that really does require a lot of stamina. He’s probably fine around a two turn mile and an eighth, but yeah, the mile and a quarter, it’s just, it’s just, it’s tough because.

It depends. It also [00:17:00] probably depends a lot with those kickers look like, because if the people controlling the racing year, if all they’re getting is the cash in this racing year, the Dubai race becomes the race just because of how much money it’s, you’re running for. But of course it’s probably more complicated.

Right. And look, like I said, back to the top and to wrap it up, he wins. If Nick’s goes not in there. Yeah, well, you’re going to, you’re going to get mad at me cause I do have one more next scope point and then we’ll move on. But I just want to harken back to something, Michelle, you said that I thought was very insightful on our, uh, on our preview show for the Saudi cop, which is, she felt like Nick’s goes advantage.

And I think you’ll like this one, she felt like Nick’s go’s advantage was how well he runs turns like he doesn’t, he just something about his stride, the way he’s built. He doesn’t really slow down around terms so he can maximize. His advantage running around two turns and she was concerned about what was going to happen in that lack of a break with the one with the one big turn.

I think the reasons you stated also make complete sense as to why [00:18:00] it wasn’t the performance we’re expecting to see from next go. But I did want to throw that in there as well. Like you, you let, Nick’s go, come back in a spot where he can dictate terms and doesn’t have to deal with another, you know, you deal with other good horses even, I think, but not a beast on the front end, like charlatan, you might see a bit of a different horse that does that theory appeal to you at all.

Yeah. Uh, you know, that’s, that’s a great insight for Michelle and, and something that like, I think a horse woman, like her who’s around horses, who’s on horses really can identify better than I ever could about how a horse is traveling. On a tournament, but I do think there’s something to that. That’s I mean, that’s one of the things with, with track athletes is why a lot of track athletes will gravitate towards the 200 versus a hundred is because they can handle that lean on the turn when you’re running the 200 meters.

No, obviously something has to do with, you know, being, having a little bit more stamina, having long legs, but also how well you run the turns is important also when you’re, when you’re compiling a four by 100 meter. Uh, relay [00:19:00] team. It is a hundred percent part of the equation of who runs the straits better and who runs the turns better when you’re deciding on which, which athlete goes where.

And so, um, it makes a ton of sense to me. And, and, you know, if I, if I was a nix go owner, you know, look at, you know, maybe, maybe something keen Lynn yanno, one of those great two grade threes at Keenan. I think, I don’t know. I don’t know what you want is in the spring. Um, or maybe the alley Sheba Derby day.

Um, or actually I think it’s Oaks day, uh, that to turn mile on it. I think it’s a mile and a 16th, which could set him up for the met mile as well. I’d imagine that’s his goal this year is, is to get a, to get a met mile under his belt. And then the same thing with, with charlatan is now let’s take a look at a mile and an eighth race and see, uh, see what we can do a mile and eighth grade one, presumably the Whitney.

Yeah, that would make sense for him. I almost feel like if you made me make a plan for next go, I might start looking to repeat in the, in the dirt mile and work and work backwards. But I don’t know. It’s, uh, there’s a [00:20:00] lot of different ways you go obviously very talented runners. Um, where are we at the Del Mar?

Right. Yeah, we are. Yeah. We’re back at Del Mar, uh, which I think, you know, should suit him very well. And what happened one day was the track and field coach sick. When you were coaching, uh, Texas football and you had to go a coach in there, it sounds like you have a good knowledge of this stuff. And I’m guessing you I’m guessing you didn’t run it from having known you for 10.

No, no, no. I, I ran. I ran, uh, well in Texas high school football. All skilled position athletes are required to run track. Oh, I did not know that. Not everywhere, but if you have, if you’re a part of a serious program, they will, you like all of my receivers when I coached, had to run track. And if you weren’t fast enough to compete on the JV or the varsity in the meet, it didn’t matter.

You still went to track practice every day, because if you want to run faster, You got to run. And so we, our kids, so we, I didn’t have to coach it, but I had to go out there and babysit to make sure that my idiots didn’t try to skip out or runaway, [00:21:00] or they were giving the track coach a hard time or whatever I was out there, essentially just policing.

So you overhear some stuff. And usually the track coaches, the foe is a football coach as well. So, you know, I. Yeah. I had to work stopwatches at track meets because you know, so long story short, I was just around it a lot. I don’t know. I mean, my Mimi implication wasn’t all the time I’ve known you. I’ve seen you run twice.

Once was with me in Saratoga and I thought you were going to expire. And the other time was after an ice cream truck. So, Hey, look, these knees, these knees weren’t made for running. Let’s talk about Maxfield. Finally. Uh, this was an impressive performance in the mineshaft. He looks like a horse in, in just great federal right now.

Well positioned attack the pace. The time form had coded fast through the half and just went on with it. Um, the trip notes says, kept to task in the, in the chart comment, but I mean, he looked like a horse finishing well within himself. Uh, sounds like you’ve already decided on him as a, [00:22:00] as a likely one to, to come and upset.

The likes of, uh, of Michif in the Dubai world cup. What did you think of that? Run? Anything to, anything to add on that? Well, I’m not saying it’s cool when you have a horse, that’s undefeated. I think Brendan Walsh and unfortunately got the bad news about prevalence. Uh, we haven’t talked about that a little bit before we, before we started that he’s got a fever and he’ll miss this weekend’s festivities, but you know, I think Brittany Walsh does a great job.

And he’s, I think he was previously known as a trainer as, I mean, as a, as a turf trainer, as it’s funny, as most people with that accent are right. It’s like, it’s because you’re from over there, all you can do is stranger forces, but he’s obviously done a great job with dirt horses and, and unfortunately, max fields.

Body just hasn’t necessarily cooperated with his talent. And he’s, I think this is the first time I think this is the first time he’s run two races, like without a layoff. Yeah. Um, which I think is great and, and imagine what he can turn into with, with, with a more [00:23:00] consistent schedule. So, you know, I think he’s a really talented horse.

I think I would lean at him being, you know, if I had to bet someone right now, On who would win the Breeder’s cup classic. He’d be the horse that I would pick a price aside. I’m just saying if I had, you know, just from a, you know, even money, one one-on-one type of situation, you had to pick a horse. You’d pick him.

He’s cool, man. There’s something about it. It never gets old. I don’t give a damn how. Big of a gambler you are, or, or, or how much of an V guy you are or whatever. There’s nothing better than looking down at past performances and seeing that last number next to the price. Say one, one, one, one, one. It’s just cool.

It’s cool because we’ve, we’ve all seen good horses get beat a lot. We’ve seen great horses get beat. And we understand all the ways horses can get beat. And when one continuously finds a way to win its special part of this Kenyatta effect, it’s just special. So I’m, you know, I’m, I’m a fan of the horse and, and hopefully we’ll [00:24:00] get them for the entire year.

Yeah, it’ll be fun to see what happens. Dubai world cup is, uh, the 27th of March. So some good, some good spacing to bring us up to that one while we’re talking about that fairgrounds card, I think the listeners are going to enjoy, um, we reflected on some of these races last week, but, but, uh, a little bit of a text exchange you had with, uh, with one of the jockeys JK, um, throughout the course of this card, but let’s start off.

I deliberately. Um, didn’t really leave too much. Uh, didn’t really talk about this too much. We had Mike Maloney, pinch hitting for you when you were in the ice last week, but the Rachel Alexandra Clary air gets the job done against travel column. And you know, I know you shared this on air on the Fox broadcast, but for listeners who missed that, and haven’t had a chance to hear you, uh, what was your assessment of this race?

Who do you like better clarity air or travel column coming out of that one? Well, the thing is, is like there’s a small chance. I like Claire ear more coming out of the race. I liked [00:25:00] before the race, I would have said I liked playing. We are coming out of the race. I think she’s going to get better as they get the distances get far further.

As she gets some more seasoning. She clearly is a late developer. That’s why she was four to one on debut, because how you could have how you could be a Curlin out of cavorting strained by Steve ass Misson written at Churchill. By Ricardo Santana. And before to one, you clearly, weren’t doing everything you were supposed to be doing in the mornings.

It just, that has to be the case. So I always thought she would progress, but I love to travel column on the day. I think travel column will continue to be a good horse as well. And, um, and in fact, Mike Maloney, you mentioned him and I don’t know if it was on purpose. I don’t I’d actually didn’t get a chance to listen.

So I don’t know what he said, but Mike has always kind of. Expressed to me, his frustration with riders that overweight, overweight, overweight, overweight. Now go now go no-go because he thinks it confuses the horses. It never seems to work. And it’s, he almost like, you know, and, and I love hearing him say it, and whether you want to his accent [00:26:00] and just saying like, you know, the horse was like, what the hell man?

You know, you’ve been telling me to stay here now. And I just thought Flo made a mistake. And I typically have all the people on our show and last to criticize writers on the show because I just. You know, I’ve never done it and it’s a dangerous deal. It’s not really fair is many times they do good stuff.

They’re going to make mistakes. So why like harp on it. But it’s also part of my job to say what I see. And I felt like it was a poor ride by flow and, and, uh, he came back and, and, and road lights out with mandolin and got the job done. But after I tweeted cryptically, I didn’t say his name and he sent me a DM.

This one was for me, J K, this is what he said to me. And I don’t mind sharing this because it didn’t go the wrong way. Um, and I got immediately like, Oh, damn, I like flow. And I loved the radar as his agent. We’ve sat together at the NHC a couple of times and saw, I was like, Oh, dang, I didn’t. And I was just like, dude, I’m [00:27:00] sorry.

Listen, I wasn’t trying to like, I just, I, I just didn’t like the ride, whatever. I hope he didn’t take it personal. And then he’s just like, Oh, I wasn’t even mad. I was just joking with you. And he basically, um, was just like, you know, holler at me anytime. If you have any questions, hope to see you soon, hope you guys are safe, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And that was it. He wasn’t even, so I was ready for him to be like angry athlete mad at me. And he wasn’t, he was just, he, uh, he knew what he meant. I think he knows he made a mistake. He didn’t confirm that to me, but I think he knows he made a mistake and you know, I make mistakes all the time. So it is what it is.

Well, it’s interesting. And we should describe what you mean. Cause some people might not even know what we’re, what we’re talking about right now. And, and, and I was with you watching live and we had a funny thing where we’re Sean Borman told us we were nuts because both you and I felt like when they turned in and he still had the double handful, um, that, yeah, he should have tried to get more distance from Clary air.

I thought watching live. It was the textbook thing we talk about about. [00:28:00] Inviting a horse into the race, letting that closer, get up to your throat latch before you hit the button. I will say, after looking at them, the, you know, the way it’s coded on time for him anyway, with the red first fraction, the red second fraction and the, the, the black third fraction.

Like it, it, you, you can make the paint, the case that. Yeah, she was doing it easily, but she was running very fast and efficiently. And after seeing the pace figures, I understand the decision to try to wait, to hit the button a lot more than I did just, just watching it live. And it could just be that she ran her race and that Clary air is really stinking.

Good. Does that, does your opinion change at all, thinking about it in context of the pacemakers or are you still as confident as you and I both were after the race? But it was a mistake we we’ve talked about before on the show. And it has been awhile, uh, the, kind of the gas tank theory where, you know, when they break from the gate, [00:29:00] uh, they all are on a scale of one to 10.

They have a full tank of gas and it’s a 10. I mean, I guess you could argue if they’re like a bad trainer or whatever, they can have a lower tank, but for the sake of this argument, they have a 10. And when you fight them early, when they want to run off or you’re losing ground around the turn, or you’re steadying, you are depleting that.

Tank. And my argument with like newspaper of record is that if you let her run, when she gets to the half mile pole, she’s going to have a six. If you fight her, she gets to the half mile pole. She’s going to have a four. So you might as well let her go where she has the six and she’s got a four link lead rather than the four with the two linked lead we’ve been fighting or the entire time.

My whole thing with, with this situation is I feel like travel, call them cross the wire. With a two left in the tank. And because you can only go so fast, you can only deplete so much energy between the 16th pole and the wire [00:30:00] and flow got comfortable. Whether he was whether he was feeling like he needed to reserve something cause she was tired or whether he was comfortable and he thought he had it or whatever it was, it was a mistake because I just think that if he would have used those two, two measures of energy, that he had left crossing the wire, he would have opened up more.

He would have been further ahead and he would have gotten to the bottom of her, which I think would have gotten him to the wire first. But in a prep race. It’s interesting what you say too, about getting to the bottom of her, like maybe part of the plan is to not do that in a race. That’s so clearly a prep with bigger goals down the line.

I mean, could that, could that be part of it? It was funny. I’m glad you bring that up because I think you could kind of pivot to another discussion is like, To me, that way of thinking of saving something for the next race. That’s one of the three days that’s one of the three weeks turn around was normal.

Do we’re doing six week turnarounds now you’re not into [00:31:00] the bottom of a horse and then affecting their performance six weeks from now. Like, I just don’t think that, that I think that that was the, an old way of thinking when, when turnarounds were, were quicker than they are now. That’s it’s a reasonable point for sure.

What, where did you want that to lead us? We can go. I was going to have you say a word. Well, a button that up real quick with just the mandolin. I don’t know if it’s Amanda lunar. Amanda lown. I’ve heard credible people say it both ways. I, what did Laffite say? To help. Laffite and Greg, both like we have on our conference call, there was a conversation about this, and that happens a lot where they’ll say, is it Mandel, lunar, Manda, lown?

I don’t know. Is it man? A lunar man alone? I think it’s made a loon. Okay. It’s a man alone. All right, man alone. And then I can’t remember which one we decided it was. I would trust those guys way better than so, um, I just say it really fast when I can’t pronounce it. I just go how’d you go? Well, um, I think it’s loons or something.

I think it’s okay. That’s what I was saying. And I thought I heard somebody more credible than me say loud [00:32:00] anyway, but horse was good and you know, flora fluoron gets the last laugh in any case. That’s why the, that’s why to bring it up. Yeah. He ran better. He ran better. The other thing I think we all have to keep in mind and I, and I try to stay away from it on the, on the, on the, uh, Fox show for various reasons.

May only, mostly because. It’s just such a hot button topic, but I do think that when you’re looking at all these races, you have to be paying attention to who’s running on and running off Lasix. Now, as these horses are going into their second prep, they’ll probably be running second time off Lasix. Cause they probably ran with it when they’re maidens, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But you got to, I think you got to kind of keep an eye on it cause it can get a little bit tricky. I liked the blinkers, uh, for this horse, right? Was it first-time blinkers? It just looked a lot more professional, but we talked about that though. Mugsy agrees. She’s blinkers. She needs, she needs, she needed them this weekend.

When she was trying to steal the pizza off the table. Let me tell you, she may be a. 15 years old, but she still has those food theft instincts. Very, very [00:33:00] strong. Um, but yeah, I feel like we were good on last weekend’s action. We’re good. On the big race from Saudi w w where should we go next? It sounded like you had an idea.

No, I didn’t. I, um, no, I, I, uh, we can go, uh, I got my questions. All right. Let’s do some of those, um, You mentioned the, it was a passing reference to the Evie police before. And it was just something I wanted to bring up that I think is like incredibly misunderstood. And it, it, it popped in my mind because the other week there’s a great red board rewind with John Pender, who’s covering Gulf stream forest daily.

And of course, Spencer and they were talking about, um, and this got the, this got. John Pender, this was, you’ll appreciate this, this got John in trouble with his, with, uh, with one of his kids, because they were, they were talking about the book, kinky handicapping by Mark Kramer, which is a classic. And one of his kids, he was listening in the car and one of the kids turned up.

Ah, dad, is that why [00:34:00] you’re so interested in this horse, race and stuff? Call them out for, uh, for his, uh, his interest in kinky handy. Yeah, I think, but one of the, I, it led me to find it and start rereading the book. And he has a great little piece in there about the different kinds of favorites. And like, this is this first bit, you know, it’s pretty basic, but I think it ties into something a little more sophisticated.

And it’s the idea that you have, you know, you have favorites, you want a key. You have, um, you know, legitimate favorites, you have vulnerable favorites and you have what he calls false favorites. And I’ve seen a few comments recently for, and from multiple different members of the police where they’ve been critical of betters analysts, whomever.

You wanting to use a quote unquote vulnerable favorites saying, Oh, well, if you’re using those kinds of horses, you don’t know anything [00:35:00] about bedding, you know, how dogmatic they got, because of course, you know, dog gets you a long way when you’re playing the horses. So they’ve got like almost. Angry about it wanting to call so-and-so analyst, you know, uh, dope, uh, because of wanting to, you know, talking about needing to use a vulnerable favorite and maybe needing to use is strong.

But I just think there’s like a really important distinction between the vulnerable favorite. Who’s going to win enough and you’ve got clever opinions elsewhere, and you want to keep this horse. In the mix somewhere to be able to cash and the false favorite, the horse, that’s just horrendous value that you really, you know, you don’t want anywhere because the horse just is a value drain.

And your opinion in the race can basically be to beat that horse. I think the first one that popped to mind JK was one. You and I both. Um, did nothing within that. Uh, the King Guillermo, uh, last race at Santa Anita, you know, for me, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a false favorite who I came around to the idea of just [00:36:00] leaving out entirely.

But, but this idea that it’s not good betting to include a vulnerable favorite, it’s just wrong in my opinion. And I wanted to talk about it on the show because. I started like writing a tweet and I was like, what am I doing? Like, I don’t want to get into some, you know, complaining match on, on Twitter. I’d rather have an open conversation with it here with you.

And hopefully the listeners can get something out of it as well. So where do you stand on this issue of using vulnerable favorites and the difference between vulnerable favorites and false favorites? Yeah, so, well, I think the first thing and the most important thing is that you should ask yourself and then the answer lies there is what.

Is the purpose of your play? Why are you playing it? Because if you are playing it. For fun for action, because you’re at a bar and the races are on. You can do whatever the hell you want, which I would say is 98% of the money being bet on people in horse racing. [00:37:00] Twitter is probably for fun, you know, Mo so the police who have nothing else in their lives that makes them happy.

And then they want to see show you how smart they are. They, they don’t have a right to tell you that you can’t do that now, is that the long-term way to be successful in this game? No, but you can, if that’s what you want to do and you know that it’s going to ruin your day. Like we have a friend who it will ruin his day.

If he does, if he does not use the vulnerable favorite, that’s trained by Chad Brown. There’ll be a couple of texts that come, I’m such an idiot. I’m so mad right now. What am I doing? I knew I shouldn’t have done that. Yes, that guy. I don’t care what the police say. Please use the vulnerable favor because I don’t want to hear that.

You know what I mean? Like do your thing. The other part of it is it’s like, why are you playing the sequence? I’ve tried to get to a point where I have a reason for playing a sequence. If I’m playing the sequence, because my value, my edge, my opinion is to toss the vulnerable flight favorite. Then you absolutely [00:38:00] should not use the favor.

Now, if that’s the reason you’re playing the sequence, you tossed the horse. And if he wins you lose. The other thing is that if. If your opinion is you love the 12 to one shot in the next race, and there’s a vulnerable favorite. There is a world in which you use the vulnerable favorite, because you’re trying to get to your opinion.

Now you can ask yourself, should you be playing that pool? But there’s a lot of reasons, you know, pick sixes with carry-overs you’re playing that pool. There’s no, there’s no. Oh, just play the pick five, pick four. You you’re, you’re playing because there’s a carry over. So. Th th that the answer line with what is your goal?

And, and so, um, I think there’s, there’s not a right answer to it. No, I think that’s well said. What about that distinction between a vulnerable favorite and like an out-and-out false favorite? I mean, I guess there’s a world in which, you know, depending on your definitions, if you still think a false favor could win [00:39:00] 15% of the time and you’ve got.

Yeah, three strong opinions elsewhere in the sequence that you could use that you could use that one as a, as a factor. But I think vulnerable favorite is a horse. That is it doesn’t have to win likely over bet. To me, that’s a vulnerable favorite. A false favorite is why the hell are they betting this horse?

Right. This horse is not going to win. If this horse was on principle, you don’t want to, you don’t want to be right to me. That’s a false, yeah, that’s good. That’s very, that’s very, very good. We are. We are actually doing incredibly well on time. I’ve got some other questions. Um, other one more. I loved your conversation with Joe Applebaum on JK.

Plus one recently you guys get into some real heady stuff. You go down the rabbit hole. But in ways that serious fans of this game, like need to hear, he had some really interesting, very contrary ideas that, uh, [00:40:00] I’ve been in that position to where you tell your honest opinion and people on both sides of the issue are going to be mad at you.

Joe. Obama’s not afraid to be that guy. He tells it like it is, but from his, from his perspective, I don’t agree with him about everything, but I agree with him about a whole lot. And you know, this, we could, we could do an hour talking about that conversation, but there was just one thing I wanted to point out because it actually came up again in another good podcast on the network.

With which was the recent, uh, talk, racing to me where Naomi turned the tables on you and had you be the guest. It was just a point I wanted to make about fixed odds, wagering. Cause I mean, I don’t disagree with you that one of the things that’s going to be great about fixed odds. Is, um, the idea that we can come up with creative wagers about jockeys, who are gonna win riding titles and future bets for the Kentucky Derby and breeders’ cup.

These bets that to me come with like this huge built-in marketing edge and they’re totally new, but I think they’re also really [00:41:00] important on the level of just betting to win. And here’s my case. Y you know, we live in a game right now and, you know, I’ve made the argument myself that. Rebates are okay.

Because the guy who buys 26 tires gets a better price than the guy who buys one tire. I mean, I’ve made that argument when it suits my needs, but I’m not actually sure. If like, if you look at like the larger economic ecosystem of racing, if giving the experienced players such a competitive advantage over the little guy is a good thing.

In fact, I’m going to go ahead and say, it’s not a good thing. Based on what we’ve seen happen to the little guy, which is that he’s been getting, you know, crowded out and pushed out of the game, hidden benefit of fixed odds. Racing for me is you flip the script, the little guy’s going to get on that horse at four to one that the big guy to get his bet down, that horse is only going to be, you know, five to two or whatever it is.

The big [00:42:00] guy. The way, this is going to work. It’s not good people. Aren’t gonna be able to win unlimited sums of money, especially successful players are going to be, you know, the little bit of research I did on this, as you might be capped at like taking bets that could win you like two grand in a day, like a decent amount.

It doesn’t sound like the plan is to sound like it’s going to be more like Australia than England in that it’s not going to be, you start winning and you’re gone. And if it does go that way, it’s never going to work here. But. The point is if you’re, if you could only win two grand peddlers, they’re still going to bet the tote.

It’s going to like bigger players. It’s still going to cross pollinate terrifically. But I think even on just the winning show level, by giving those little guys the edge, you’re going to let them win. You’re going to give them a taste for the game. They’re going to learn to be better players who can stick around longer and racing is going to be this entertaining thing.

And it’s going to help everybody because by keeping more of a, of a middle class, uh, uh, in an entry level, Better inaction that gives the big guys [00:43:00] money to money to play with essentially. Um, I don’t want to say pick off that’s too cynical, but you know, if you can make racing fun and keep more people in action, it’s healthier for everybody.

So I did it just the point I wanted to make, because I felt like you were a little, like, almost like dismissive of fixed odds and like point of view. Well, I mean, I think so. I think there’s some obstacles to be in, to be Frank. I don’t even really understand all the economics of it, but I will say that I do.

Realize that in order. And we saw it with the roulette back that, you know, people made fun of that. I thought it was a good idea. I do think on the surface, it is a good idea. But the thing that I discounted when I initially said it was the takeout of the bet. Destroyed it and made it, made it worse and not being fixed thoughts.

You know, I mean, it’s, it’s that that’s great with fixed odds and controlled takeout. It doesn’t have to be, we’re not getting to 5% takeout and you know, there’s great reasons in the, in the Joe Applebaum piece where he explains it all, but fixed odds can still [00:44:00] work at the 14% or whatever it’s going to need to, to make it work.

I’m just a big believer in I’m a big believer in. Not like the way that things are set up, you can’t shock the system because people will reject it. So if you start, if you can, if you can trick them into letting you do jockey bets, trainer, bets, the pretty gray horse versus the Brown ones, you can trick them into that and you get the whole infrastructure set up and then you say, look, this is just extra money.

It’s not hurting the other money. Let’s do win bets for the Derby. And then the next year. Now you can get all of the uneducated panicky. That’s not how we’ve done it in the past. My, my piece of the pie, those people, and then you have everything in place, right? But if you say no, no, no. Let’s do when, when, when, when they’re gonna be like, what about the parimutuel pools?

And then, you know, our answers are not going to go, are not going to convince them. [00:45:00] Well, I’d like to think that all the data we have from Australia would help because we have, it’s not like we’re guessing about this. Like we know. We’ve seen fixed Dodds, integrated into a parimutuel system that have had a tremendous positive effect on both.

So we’re not pulling this out of our hat, but I do take your point about some of the lack of, uh, shall we say risk-taking and I’m being very charitable that you do see in some corners of the industry. So, so maybe you’re right. Maybe that is a smarter way to. To introduce it, but I think the ultimate gains could be a lot bigger than just that.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this industry is not nearly as brave as mugs was for just jumping down the stairs just now it sounded like. She was actually, I will take a picture. I mean, I actually have to stop and take a picture of what she just did. She went over to her bowl and this is why I’m forgetting. This is why I do the shows in the basement.

So I’m not at the Beck and call of Labrador before you could probably heat listen carefully. The mic probably gets wonky. She insisted on going out and now she’s gone to her water [00:46:00] bowl and I’m not joking. Turned it over. In revolt, I’m going to take a picture. It’s very funny and I have to give her the water.

So I have to do this while on there. Stay right there. Mugs. This is going to be a good laugh for the listeners. Anyway, it’s I’m dealing with a full on doggy revolt here, Jay cat. She does not mess around. No, she, she really, I don’t know why she’s being so needy, but we’ll get her. We’ll get her sorted out.

She’s favorite part about mugs is, is, is when you. Honestly, try to level with her. Like she wasn’t, you’re saying so, so it will be, we’ll be recording at the table and you’ll go mugs, mugs, mugs, mops, listen, what did we do? What are you doing? Let me give me 10 minutes and then we’ll, we’ll go outside. Okay.

Mugs. You’re you’re being very difficult today. Well, we’ve got, we’ve got her sorted out. I’ve said my piece on the, on the fixed DOD stuff here, we’ll have a nice sound effect of water going into the bowl. We’ll see if my not [00:47:00] so nice, Mike Pyxis, that doesn’t sound like water into a bowl. I swear it is. And she’s, she’s diving right in all of this.

Cause Pete needed a bathroom break. It was a pretty elaborate ruse. Um, we’ve got good stuff coming up. This, this interview with Kim people want to stick around and listen. And this, this promo idea we’ve come up with to help out the TRF. Um, and our friends at Walton Whitman brewery, where folks can win a $500 Derby bet.

You’re gonna want to stay tuned for that. As for you JK any closing thoughts, man, I tell you what I’m going to do. Right. When we get done, I’m excited about, I saw that Maggie posted, uh, off the track with Michael Bay chalk. It’s awesome. And so I think our horseplayer audience will enjoy that one about the, uh, about the claiming horse, that one Michael, the million and, and him claiming that horse and, and, and retiring.

So I, I’m excited to hear that story and I think, uh, people will enjoy that as well. Definitely check that out over on the [00:48:00] money podcast.com as well. And JK we’ll check in with you a little bit later in the week. All right. See you guys next up on the show. We have a returning guest, always like to introduce her as the first lady of the, in the money players podcast from the thoroughbred retirement foundation.

Kim we’re Kim, how are you? Well, good morning, Pete. I am great because I get to spend some time with you today. Happy Monday. Happy Monday, indeed. We’ve got a couple of really important things to talk about. I teased at the beginning of the year show. Uh, we’ll, we’ll get to that in a minute, but I want to start off by talking to you about Florida, a place.

I wish I was right now as I look out my window here, but, uh, Florida very much on the racing fans brain. These days, we’ve got the fountain of youth and a loaded card coming up on Saturday. We have some exciting developments in, uh, the racing world happening. Tomorrow this Tuesday. Uh, and I want you to tell folks what’s going on down there.

Wow. I do. I very much have Florida on the brain. I think I’m an F Florida, the brain all year. And that’s not just because it’s really cold up here. [00:49:00] It is because, um, we have a milestone historic event happening tomorrow. I’m not going to, you know, I am a fan of the hyperbole, but I am not overdoing it with this one this time, because tomorrow is a groundbreaking day in the TRS.

History as an organization in that we will be opening the doors of the world, I guess, to our first ever TRF second chances juvenile program. That is our horses doing their magical work, changing lives of young people. In this case, young men at the TRF second chances juvenile program at CSI Ocala. So it is right there in the heart of the horse capital of the world.

And tomorrow we get to take you there with me. Pete, you get to go. Everybody can join us. It’s all via live stream and we can show you what magic is happening. I love it. We’re going to be a lot. We’re going to be simulcasting that or sharing it through our Facebook feed over on the, in the money page. I assume TRF Inc gets you [00:50:00] there as well.

What are the best ways for people to follow along and what are they going to be seeing? Yes. Well, yeah, it is. It should be ubiquitous. I love that you all are cross posting it and sharing it. Thank you. We’ve got some great media partners doing that, including the Florida department of juvenile justice and, uh, uh, GDN and a bunch of good folks are going to share that with the world to find it though.

Um, my specific instructions would be, if you don’t know, go to either Pete’s page or go to our page. TRF Inc. Org. And there’s a pop-up that’s like right there in your face saying, click me. Um, you can also go to the events page. It will be streaming on YouTube and Facebook. So if you that’s what you’ll really be watching.

Uh, and I would encourage folks who chime in, like you specifically, Pete, to please, um, log in and comment, let us know that you’re watching. It’s, it’s very fun. You know, this from our Blackburn horse show, it was fun to see people commenting as they watched, and they can do that on either Facebook or YouTube and just say hi and tell us where you’re watching from.

Love that idea. Yeah. We’ll send around on Twitter that stream as well. Now, [00:51:00] canine interruptions on our various segments on the show, we haven’t had that many feet line ones, especially a feline this aggressively trying to play with the microphone, which I, which I appreciate as an audio, as an audio guy.

Yes, I Maggie. She is my Maggie and she has a lot to say. We have a lot in common, fantastic stuff. Um, w tell us about the show tomorrow. And then I want to back up and ask you some general question, a general question about the program, but what, what, what will we expect to be seen? Yes. So what you’re going to see tomorrow, I’m lucky, lucky, or unlucky.

You’re going to see me and a good colleague and amazing partner. Um, gentlemen named Mr. Billy Stark, who is with the Florida department of juvenile justice. He, and I have been, um, linked arm and arm for over a year now, getting this baby off the ground. So we’re the hosts. Um, he’s going to try to fill your big shoes, Mr.

and my cohost, the extraordinary that you are. I wasn’t drafted this time, not this time because I’m holding out for the next time, my friend. Um, so Billy and I will be live. We will greet [00:52:00] everyone. We will. Set the stage. And then we go, we go to Ocala. We take, we take our friends and everyone watching to Ocala where they will meet the dream team.

They, they really are meeting the dream team that would be a set of humans and a set of horses, um, who I cannot wait to introduce to the world. Um, so that the voices will be. TRF DJJ. Um, our amazing farm manager. Who’s whose name? Spoiler alert. Her name is velvet Salisbury, and look out world here she comes.

She is amazing. So we will show where it happens. It’s a great name. I’ve I’ve I have to say I’ve never had a friend named velvet and I’m so excited that I do now because she’s amazing. And she has just been making it happen for, I mean, the thing about this launch is, um, I am just bursting at the seams because it’s been something in the works for a very.

Very, I can not say very enough times for how long this has been in process. This is not happening easily. This kind of partnership. We are grateful for it. It is hard. Is that hard fought, but it was a lot of work to get [00:53:00] there and it’s well, well worth it. So velvet is the star and she’s been there through COVID using our horses.

So you get to meet our horses, including just to tie it back to Florida. I mean, it’s in Florida, but one of the horses who’s really made, um, a splash at our juvenile program is one, well, well-known one of our most famous horses in the herd and his name is Hemingway’s ki he is a handsome Chestnut with a star, which is my favorite recipe.

And, um, He’s loving it. He’s teaching the boys. You’ll actually see him tomorrow, too. Those are some of the things I won’t tell you. Everything that happens to her, it’s worth tuning in. No, that, that that’s, it sounds, it sounds fantastic. And I wanted to talk about, you talked about how long it took to get this program going.

And I would imagine, I don’t know if there’s like actual science behind this, but the idea that a program like the second chances program as much success as it’s had. Yeah. At the, at the adult level, you just, I mean, to me, it’s just logical that if you’re talking about a [00:54:00] juvenile program, you’re talking about people whose lives are going to be that much easier to affect, simply because they haven’t had enough of, of life, uh, you know, beaten them down, like, like happens to like happens to everybody at all levels of society.

It just feels like you’re going to be much more malleable, much more open to, to change. And that I would take a wild guess with no science behind this, that it would also lead to a better rate of, uh, of, of a lack of recidivism. Um, is there, is there anything behind that? Well, uh, we, we are, we, we believe, and we are hopeful for all of those things, for sure.

Um, Pete, it is, it is a first, um, so it is a, that malleable is like one of my favorite words I find myself using. And another one, I think you used our first conversation was trajectory. You know, we are changing the trajectory of a young life, whereas that’s a very different thing than everything we are doing in the prison program where you’re kind of rebuilding a life that.

Went off trajectory. So, um, so it is, [00:55:00] it is really, really, we call it a brighter future begins. It’s it’s just a very hopeful feeling that we have. Um, and then one piece of that maybe to be specific is that, um, any of you we’ve talked about it a bunch of times on air and off that our TRF second chances program.

It is fundamental, fundamentally built on a vocational. Programming structure like it is, it is focused on skills, knowledge, learning, you know, education so that the individual goes out of their facility with better tools than they came in with. So it’s very, very important to us to really remember that it is vocational.

However, we also all know because we all know horses and we’ve had those of us who had that great experience of them in our lives. They’re very therapeutic in the prison program. We, we downplay that word because prisons are actually not in the business of. Therapy therapy. I mean, that’s a big, that’s a big conversation for another day, but what’s really interesting and powerful about the juvenile program is that they, the department of juvenile justice is.

All in on the word [00:56:00] therapy. Quite frankly, they, they recognize that with a young person, the reasons that they’ve ended up in the facility, where they are, have as much to do with mental health issues and other challenges they’re facing that they need to be healed before they can be. Taught. And so in velvet, we’ll speak to that tomorrow, but it is actually very baked in and we actually can use the word therapy in, in a equine therapy way.

It’s actually one specific thing I will share is that velvet has been trained not only in our groom elite program, which is the vocational training we use in all the second chances program, which is all job oriented, but she’s also been trained in this certification called EAGALA, which is one of the national certifications as an equine therapist.

So, so the potential to really. He’ll help and give these young men a chance at a better life is, is real. And we are incredibly excited to share it. Fantastic. I can’t wait to see tomorrow again. We’ll be sharing it around. We encourage folks to join. We encourage folks to share. We encourage folks to give as [00:57:00] well.

We’ve got our page. TRF Inc org slash players. Another way to help us to support the fantastic new podcast on our network. Off-track with Maggie Wolf and Dale. I absolutely loved her conversation with Mike Bay, chalk talking about glorious dancer, the horse that won him, the NHC back in, I think it was 2013.

Have you had a chance to listen to that one yet? Kim? Oh, I have. I listened to it first thing this morning and I just love it. Love it. Love it. Love Maggie. Love him. Um, love it. The story of this horse, who, who changed his life, he changed hers and she changed, changed his, and he gets emotional. And I love that.

I’m not trying to, I just love how all and w you know, he is he’s he’s, he’s he’s, he has been, you, you and I have talked about him and I’ve met him in indirectly, but he is a guy who’s showing that the horse players have the horses in their hearts. And that conversation just brings that to life so beautifully.

I just loved every second of it. So it was beautiful. [00:58:00] Good job to Maggie. Good job to you for getting it out there in the world, Mr. Ferndale. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I did nothing, but watch talented people do their thing and get to listen to that, that raw emotional energy of Mike Bay, chalk, which I defy you to listen to him and yeah, happy inspired.

And he has the chance to potentially do some fun partnering with us this summer. I’m sure you remember, Kim. He had volunteered a couple of years ago. The timing didn’t work out, but to help us out with a gumbo event, him and his family. Very into cooking. And, uh, w what do you think about reviving gumbo for the horses?

Assuming the world is in a position to let us do that with, with Mike paycheck, we’re used to, you know, production meetings in the middle of the show here. I don’t know what this falls under, but it’s something like that. Would you be up for putting something like that together this summer? A hundred percent, because as much as he may be into cooking, I am totally into eating.

And I love it when eating means that we give to the horses too. So this is just wrapping it all together in a beautiful bow. And I am all in. So please, [00:59:00] please, Mr. Bay, Jack, we would love to have you Pete, and I will make it all work. And, uh, that would be so much fun. Gumbo for the horses was remarkably. I mean, it was very successful.

We just, none of us knew that horses like gumbo so much, but we have, that is true. I got it all sorted out. And that this is a good segue while we’re talking about eating and drinking and Saratoga, essentially friends of ours up for a major award. We’re not just talking about like major award Christmas story.

The, the, the lamp with the leg. This is a, this is a major award. This is the best new brewery as awarded by USA. Today, I went through the list, some really tough competition, but I think we’ve come up with a couple of ways to help out our friends. They were. They were amazing. I just have to say for people who want a little bit of background on Walton women, we all know how hard the pandemic has been on service industry businesses.

And, you know, we had the framework of a plan in place and it would have been completely sane of them to say, you know what, Pete, we can’t [01:00:00] do it this year. Let’s start next year. They w they, they went right ahead. Um, helped us raise a bunch of money for TRF last summer and sponsored in the money media at a time when, you know, when we really needed it.

And we want to thank w we don’t have anything going with them yet this year officially. And we probably will eventually, but that not withstanding. I think there’s, there’s something good we can do here. And the best thing of all and, and Kim, you’re so good at this. You found a way to do it. That’s going to help the horses to let folks know what we’ve got in mind to help a Walton Whitman get up there in the standings.

Well, I did so much fun. Yes. I do think that there’s a wonderful combination of friends, fun food, drink, and horses like mix it all together. You’ve got Saratoga in a nutshell and horse racing as a writ large. So this is such a fun thing cause we do, we do so appreciate our friends, our ambassadors, you Pete and JK and yeah.

So many, um, and the friends at Walt Whitman are those kinds of friends. They’ve been with us since, before they even opened their doors. They were at our 5k run for the horses back in 2019, and [01:01:00] they weren’t even open yet. So these folks are just our kind of people. They love horses, they love horse racing.

They give, they, they share the message. And so. I just think it’s a wonderful thing that has we’ve, we’ve cooked up, um, and that we can support them in what they need right now, our votes for this new best new brewery, um, in the country that doesn’t cost anything to vote. It’s just a little bit of time. And so what we’ve we’ve done is we’ve cooked up a page on our website, which is usually where I begin.

And it’s, it’s very simple. It’s TRF Inc org slash Whitman. And on that page, you’ve got a button to their voting. Um, is very simple. You can vote on every different device that you own. You can vote on every different browser that you use all counts as individual votes and every, and every day, too. Yes, it is kind of American could vote today, tomorrow the next day.

Yes, this is a we’re gonna build, we’re gonna build, we’re going build it over time. So every day you vote, it doesn’t cost you anything to vote. But what we’re asking then is to also [01:02:00] log your vote. So it just lets us and the Whitman folks know that I voted that Bobby voted that Pete voted it. It’s a very simple little form, but that is going to give Whitman has decided that if we can reach.

A target number for this week to see if we’ve got people listening, see if we’ve got people paying attention, then they’re going to give us a gift of 500 people, $500 for the horses. And that’s just for us clicking a button a bunch of times like that. That’s all you have to do. And they are giving a gift to the horses in.

Thanks for us sharing this story. Um, and I think what did we decide that we’re going to try to aim for how many this week, what do you think is a good number to ask for this week of people? 50 votes at $10. What do we think about that? Do we feel good about that? Do we want it, do we want to shoot higher mic?

Let’s let’s see where that gets us. I think it’s the kind of thing where if we do well, we’re going to probably the voting goes through March, so let’s see, let’s see how we do out of the box. And, you know, [01:03:00] I mean, I know our listeners and they’re pretty devoted to, uh, to these causes and to helping us out and helping our partners.

We w w we may just blow right through that, but that’s, that’s a good thing and we can, and we can revisit it. And then. My idea was for, you know, in the money is thank you. Not only to, you know, you Kim and, and TRF, but also Walt and Whitman who, you know, like I said, stuck with us at a time where we really needed that.

We’re gonna, we’re going to do a little raffle. So every vote. That we do, and they will be logged. It’s so simple, easiest little Google form in the world. Doesn’t take 30 seconds to log this vote, but for all these log votes, we’re going to do a raffle and there’s going to be fabulous prizes. The top prize, the one I alluded to earlier, a $500 bet on the Kentucky Derby.

And then we’ll get some clarification about other prizes too, but I I’m sure it’s going to be cool. Walton, Whitman, uh, merge, maybe some gift cards thrown in we’ll we’ll, we’ll figure that part out a little bit on the fly, [01:04:00] but the, the top prize that’s going to come from me and that’s going to be, uh, that’s going to be that $500 bed on the Kentucky Derby.

So there’s so many reasons to go right now and vote. TRF Inc org slash Whitman. I’m also going to set up a link. In the money podcast.com/whitman, whichever one’s easier for you to remember, you know, and this is the time we can say without it being, uh, encouraging, uh, unsavory behavior vote early and often.

Yes. You know, one thing I even put on that little page, which I think you and you, and I both love Google things generally, but Google calendar, you can even click a little button and you can add this to your calendar. So every day at 11 you can get a little notification. That’s like, Oh right. I got to go click these various links and do my thing.

So we want to make it easy because it does turn into goodies for the horses. And it also turns into good things for friends. And that’s a very important thing in this world. So to recap, less than 30 seconds of your day, a $10 [01:05:00] donation for the thoroughbred retirement foundation that doesn’t even come out of your pocket and a chance for you to win fabulous prizes, including a $500 bet on the Kentucky Derby.

I’m hoping we absolutely blow this out of the water, do so well that we can come back next week and, and, uh, and do it again. So let’s, let’s, uh, let’s see if let’s see what we can do out there in the world. People. I think that sounds tons of fun. And I will tell you the horses say, thank you. Um, and horses do like beer, by the way.

Like, I don’t know. I’m maybe stretching it with the gumbo thing, but you know, there’s plenty of horses stories out there, of course. Is that like it is, or is it like, so I don’t know. I mean, I didn’t bring a horse to one of the events at Walt Whitman this year and see if they like, uh, one of those beers you like so much that I liked so much.

Two follow ups on that one, Zenyatta had Guinness as an essential part of her feed. They would mix, they would mix the Guinness in with the w w with the, uh, with the oats. And I do believe that four-star Dave himself did [01:06:00] once make an appearance at Ciro’s. And that is why that street is. That is when that street was rechristened.

Four-star Dave way in Saratoga. So. This is a real thing. Horses in bars. I love it. I love it. I love that dynamic, like, and it’s just like me. Well, who knows? We’ll just see where that takes us this summer and like it. Excellent. Excellent. All right. I think we’ve covered what we meant to cover Kim and anything we left out about either tomorrow’s event or this, uh, this ongoing initiative for our friends at Walton Whitman.

No, these are fun things to talk about on a Monday. And I did want to throw my one little, like a thought of the day out to you. My friend is that I round ran across this Coke quote and it’s resonating with me today in a conversation like this one, which is that creativity is intelligence having fun. So let’s go do that.

My friend. I love that. I love that idea. I think it somehow applies to, uh, the process of, of playing the horses as well. Where did you come across that? No, I just, I, I had a, I Googled creativity quotes, cause I could [01:07:00] feel it in the air. I’m telling you, I could feel so much creativity between this Walton, Whitman and all the things I have more my more, which I’m not going to get into, but I see more things where people are thinking creatively.

So I just was, I needed a thing and they’re in the fun. I mean, fun is my favorite. Word. So I just think this is fine. Let’s just go make creativity is intelligence having fun. So go be creative. My friend. Thank you for all you do for the horses. I so appreciate you. Well, it’s our w we appreciate you. It’s our pleasure.

Open invitation when you’re ready to talk about those next things. Um, you know, we’ll leave it here for today, but you’ll come back very soon and we’ll give an update on the wall and Whitman project. And maybe talk about some other stuff as well. Kim we’re thank you so much for your time today. That’s going to do it for this edition of the show.

I’d like to thank J K. I’d like to thank Kim Weir. I’d like to thank our founding partners. Of course you heard about thoroughbred retirement foundation, but I’d like to thank them again here every week. And remind folks of the link to donate TRF Inc org slash [01:08:00] players to support their mission. Always like to give shout outs to, to our friends over at 10 strike racing.

Hey. If you sign up for, plus, we’re going to have at least one extra podcast with somebody from the 10 strike team this weekend, talking about those Oak lawn races, who knows, maybe we’ll even try the double header, lots of good stuff down there. It depends how busy those guys are. I haven’t asked them yet.

They might be hearing about it for the first time in this show. Sorry about that guy. If that is in fact the case. Most of all, though, I want to thank all of you, the listeners for making these shows. So much fun to do this podcast has been a production of in the money media. Our business manager is drew Courtney, our chief creative officers, Jonathan Kinchin I’m Peter Thomas Fornatale.

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