Show 1 – December 24, 2018


On the first edition of the In The Money Players’ Podcast, hosts Peter Thomas Fornatale and Jonathon Kinchen talk about what to expect on the new show. It boils down to horse racing analysis – both on the industry side and the gambling side. In this episode, JK guides us through the Opening Day stakes at Santa Anita, and PTF and JK argue about Santa Anita’s new roulette wager.

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You’re listening to the, in the money players pile new show, new theme song. But for those of you missing Willie Nile, just stay tuned. You’ll hear him in a bit. You can’t stop rock and roll and you can’t stop the players podcast. All quote, the great Mark Twain. A reporter once asked him about rumors that he’d met his untimely demise.

And he simply said reports of my death were greatly exaggerated. So it is with this show. Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast, where setting the counter all the way back. This is show number one. I am your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a town. I am still in. The Brooklyn bunker as we record this on Christmas Eve morning mugs, the handicapping Labrador alongside for HorsePlayers.

It’s not just Christmas Eve. It’s not just Christmas. It’s the three days in a row, including boxing day, AKA Santa Anita opening day. And one of the people for whom that’s part of his holiday traditions. Is with me now. He is the co-host of this show. He was the co-host of a little show I used to do as well.

You know him, you love him. He’s the people’s champion. He started out on planet, Texas, but he’s now in planet Arcadia. He is Jonathan Kanchan, JK what’s up PTF we’re we’re we’re back at it. Uh, I always like to say back, like I stole something. It doesn’t make any sense. Cause you wouldn’t, you wouldn’t go back.

If you sold something. For whatever reason, my brain always wants to say back, like I stole something and I’m not really sure why, but we are back. Like we stole something. There’s there’s some window into your psychology in there. Um, above my pay grade, however, above my pay grade. Now I said that you’re on planet Arcadia, but uh, based on the photograph you just sent me.

That is not correct. You haven’t made it all the way there yet. Where are you as we speak? I am in a, I am in planet Woodland Hills. I am looking at a fancy mixer, some $70,000 mixer. And, uh, my, my brother’s, uh, studio at his house in Woodland Hills. Platinum records on the wall. And when you go into the bathroom, if you need to use the restroom, I’m not joking.

You, this is not an exaggeration. There’s literally 17 keyboards in his bathroom. He, he, uh, he’s, he’s, uh, we’re very similar and, you know, you know, tech stuff gets us excited, but he obviously takes it to the next level. And there’s a lot of toys in his, in his industry. He has all of them, uh, Music producers.

I’ve been in here with some big music producers and they come in and they’re shocked of how, how powerful his in-home studio is. So he’s got it. He’s got everything, everything you could imagine in here and all the, all the fun toys and a bunch of star Wars, memorabilia, a lot of toys. And he’s got a storm trooper over there on the corner of lifeline, a life-sized Stormtrooper staring at me while I do the show.

How old is your bro? If that’s public information, it’s not, it’s been deleted from his Wikipedia page. That’s a true story. I, and here’s the thing about it is I honestly. I don’t know because of that. It’s, it’s confused to me. Um, he, I think he was like 10, maybe he’s 10. He was 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15. When I was born.

10. I mean, probably maybe eight, nine. I don’t know one of the two, so he’s really older than me. That’s for sure. I was feeling him in my age bracket with the, some of the, some of the references and just knowing some of the things I know about his, his career, but, uh, and then the star Wars thing pushed it over the edge.

So anyway, I’ve just, uh, w we’ll we’ll have that conversation privately sometime. Um, [00:04:00] all right. We’re back on the show. Very exciting to be here. This is obviously a bit of a transitional episode. Apparently from what I hear it, uh, this one may not go up on iTunes for a little while. So we have a new hosting site.

People will be able to listen. Obviously, if you’re listening to this, you know that we’ll be sending that around. Eventually we’re going to have a set up just like we used to have on iTunes. Just might take a show or two, just to get that little bit of programming note out of the way, what we’re independent now.

I don’t see that really changing too much. I feel like. You know, I I’m just going to be honest. I still, I really do look at the world through the lens of a lot of DRF stuff, uh, that hasn’t been align all these years. We looking at a DRF formulator quite a bit, be looking at time, form us. It does open us up to be a little bit more Frank about some of the efforts, uh, our friends have going.

Um, and some of the other information out there, but. The only change. [00:05:00] I think that’s going to come over time. I could see the show being a little bit more formalized into segments because when you have an independent podcast and now instead of having one sponsor, a patron really. Under the old setup, we’re going to need sponsors for different segments.

So I could see being a little bit more regimented, but I definitely don’t want to lose the free flowing nature of the show because I think that’s part of what’s great about podcasts and part about what makes this show fun. We’ll have our little production meeting in the middle of the show. Now those aren’t going anywhere.

Have you given any thought JK about ways that you want the show to be the same or ways that you want the show to change? No. I mean, I think I’ll definitely, probably still, you know, have the mute button mistakes. I don’t think that’s going to change. Um, it almost happened there, but I was, that was quick, quick on the draw to get it fixed.

No, I kind of, I actually envisioned it the same way you did without us talking about it. Just having a little bit more, some more segments, some, [00:06:00] uh, some opportunities probably to, uh, To look, to try to do some like sponsored pick fours and, and, uh, you know, maybe some pick five, carry over, pick six, carry over things we could maybe reach out and, and talk with some people about some opportunities.

We’ve got pretty good relationships with a lot of racetracks and a lot of marketing guys. So I would imagine there’d be an opportunity there and then, uh, you know, keeping it the same way and whatever we do. I do know that. Pete and I both won’t, uh, uh, although some people might not think that’s true, we’ll prevent, uh, we’ll prevent ourselves from becoming shills of, you know, you know, I don’t think we’re going to be, uh, you know, doing the rainbow six on a, on a, on a random Wednesday saying it’s the best bet.

No, you can’t. You can’t, you, even when you have sponsors, you and, and, you know, and I feel like we lived up to this throughout the DRF era. You can’t. You can’t shill for things that are false, you just lose all credibility. For example, here’s a [00:07:00] perfect example. All those years, DRF and NTRA were partners.

And, you know, my job was largely to promote the NTRA. There’s a lot of things I love about the NTRA and the NHC. And I’m happy to talk about it. How it’s the coolest horseplayer party of the year and something that I believe once you go to once you’re going to want to go to every year, I’m not going to go on there and say for the average player, it’s the best value situation in the world.

Because depending on what kind of player you are, you may find some great value in it, but you may not. And so I don’t want to ever come out and say things like you were perfect example about the rainbow situation, uh, on a non, uh, guaranteed payout day. You can’t be out there saying things like that. And, uh, but I don’t believe we ever, we ever did fall into that category, but of course, you know, somebody is always going to accuse you of something isn’t that right.

Yeah. There’s no doubt about that. Yeah. It’s funny. The, the, uh, there’s been some, like, you know, I’ve learned to not respond to the annoying stuff. I mean, I, unless I have like three or four, then, then [00:08:00] maybe lots of. I’ve had my son pretty much nonstop since, since we made the transition away from the DRF players podcast.

And so, um, some of the tweets, I haven’t really been, I haven’t, haven’t tied one on yet, so to have to battle with, you know, responding to the tweets. So, uh, and then the other thing is, is that I love it. I joked about it before. Like, dude, you gotta have more than 300 followers from your response. Like I, I’m not, I’m not responding to you and giving you a platform when you have 300 followers and it’s not really your picture on your avatar.

Right? Avatar. That’s the word I was looking for? Port lesson. It seems like you finally, internalized JK is not to feed the trolls, but I will also say this, the positive to negative feedback at this point. If the people I’ve talked to both publicly and privately 999, supportive to one, and if nobody hates you.

You’re doing something wrong. Oh yeah. Here’s the thing, Pete. You and I both have, uh, we, we frequent racetracks [00:09:00] and, um, you know, I’ve been to a random restaurant in Austin and someone said something to me about the show. We get so much positive. Positive bless you out the year. Yeah, I got the little one was, he was a boy.

He was a, he was a sneezy mess last night. Um, but the, the, um, the, you know, the positive stuff we get throughout the year and I wasn’t really worried about it. I just, sometimes I like to get into little beefs with people. It’s you hard to imagine? Hard to imagine. J K I a you’re you’re always known to be a diplomat who, uh, who’s quiet and reserved and doesn’t get into fist fights at Churchill downs.

I didn’t get into a fist fight. We’ll leave that to me. We told that story on the old show, you can find it in the archives. Probably the show. I don’t know if we got to it, the show after the Derby, but maybe one after that, um, we have all these great questions stored up. I think we should wait. On them though, JK [00:10:00] until we get a little bit more ground under us, I thought it was really important to do a show today, but it is Christmas Eve.

So I think we’re going to keep this short, let’s talk a little bit about what the show is. I would imagine somebody going to find us for the first time today and want to check it out. Um, we’re still going to be doing two shows a week. A Tuesday show. Typically, obviously this week, a little different with the holiday and sometimes our travel plans will be different typically Tuesday and Friday, I think we’re going to let the live show slide because I’ve learned to edit and I, once you have that, Club in your bag.

You want to use it? There’s just a lot of things. Look, I’m not going to clean up everything. I want to keep the feel of the show, but once you learn to do that, there’s just some things that you can make into a more pleasant audio experience for the listener. And that’s the direction I want to go. So I think we’ll just end up posting at the same time every week.

I suppose we could get it. If we start recording a [00:11:00] little earlier. Well, let’s just tentatively say. We’re going to try to have shows up and available to listen to by noon on Tuesday and Friday, the Tuesday shows typically are going to be recaps of what’s been going on in racing, um, issues of the day specific stakes racing recaps.

And occasional questions from listeners that’s been great and something we’re so grateful to our listeners for all the great feedback that gets provided, but also very specifically the questions that get asked, essentially, we let you produce the show on a regular basis. The Friday shows. Typically we’ll look forward.

Uh, I think as much as ever more than ever, maybe we’ll try to have some guests in on Friday to specifically help with the prognostication of the races element frequently. We’ll have guests on Tuesday as well. I think those will be [00:12:00] more of the. Just talk to people about their life variety in general issues in the game, like the recent conversations with, uh, Richard Migliori and Barbara Livingston, uh, that we posted in the last few weeks, what am I missing?

What else do we do on that? Talk a lot of strategy stuff. I think it’s important, obviously. Um, I think you covered everything though. I mean, yeah. I think, I think some of the most fun shows that I remember us having. Or with the guests, you know, some of our we’ve been very fortunate to, to, you know, being with DRF and then the, the, all the writing that you’ve done for tournaments to really ask some really cool and enlightening guests on to talk about what some of the things that they do.

So I think that’s one thing that we’ll always continue to do. And, um, And, uh, and possibly even be able to branch out a little bit more and do some to some more things with some more people. Yes. And tournaments. Somebody asked a very good question about if tournament coverage was still going to be on the docket.

And the answer is absolutely legitimately view tournaments as being a huge part [00:13:00] of the future of the game. We’re obviously involved with the world. Horseplayer store more news on that as it comes down the line, but. The idea of having players on to talk about. And also, I still think I want to keep a written element.

We’ve got a blog. In the money that’s up and running. That might be a good place to continue to have some chats with HorsePlayers and it can be a little bit looser formatted than at DRF where it really had to follow kind of a strict template. Um, I definitely see. More written content happening there.

And I also have conceived the idea, but I needed some time to think about it a little more. And we’ll talk about this one. We’ll have a production meeting off-air about almost putting together a newsletter, uh, connected with this podcast. And with that in the money podcast blog, where. We aggregate some of the [00:14:00] most interesting stories, podcasts, whatever we’re hearing out there in the world under one umbrella, and that could perhaps live on the blog, but also maybe we’ll get people to sign up and send that directly to your inbox as well.

I would take the lead on that JK, but is it something you’d be willing to help with? Pete I’ll help you with anything except for moving. I don’t help people move. Um, if you need my help moving, I’ll give you a hundred dollars. You can put that towards getting movers. Um, I just, that’s the, I think that’s the worst thing in the world to ask someone to do is to help you move.

Um, I just, I try not to, I try not to be asked to do it. I hate it. It’s the worst. Fair. At least you’re honest, you know, I I’d much rather that than just get a litany of excuses from you. Uh, you know, you’ve got to, you’re filling, fell out, you know, whatever you can’t help that day. I’d much rather, you just be honest about where, where your boundaries for friendship are.

And I’m glad that helping out with the potential newsletter falls on the right side of the [00:15:00] line, we could also be. Looking to loyal listeners. We have so many good listeners out there to be eyes and ears. Let’s say we were to do some sort of weekly newsletter, a blog that put together the best stuff that had been written that week.

I could, I would imagine folks like, uh, Jean, uh, our, our quiz champion and drew, who was on the show and Matt and people like Eric Bilich by the way, how terrible was it of us JK that we did that Christmas quiz episode and didn’t find any love, uh, for our friends, Eric Bilich and Sean Borman. How did neither of those guys get a call?

The EBA. Should’ve got one for sure. Sean, Sean coulda got one too, but Eby for sure. Such a map help. Uh, he probably deserves some, grab a call. The question would have been somewhere along the lines of, uh, Of, uh, uh, you know, something with, with helping JK with math for next year, I’m already starting to think of more quiz questions.

That was a big enough hint, despite the funny circumstances of the show that I think we will [00:16:00] be reviving that concept. So start thinking out there, start going back and listening to the archive. If you want to participate in next year’s holiday quiz, those episodes, by the way, are still up there. You can find them on iTunes and the old, uh, DRF.

Feed and maybe on our blog, I’ll put a link where we can find them. Sean Borman though, did get his revenge on me for not being included in the show. He pointed out a mistake that I made JK, um, regarding the show I described the haberdasher as someone who makes hats a haberdasher makes men’s clothing, a milliner makes hats.

So there’s a little bit of overlap. Like I could almost try to claim a little bit of credit in that. A hat, especially the hats I wear. It is an article of men’s clothing, but the way I specifically described it on the show party foul. But the reason I bring all these people up, who we’re fortunate to have as listeners is I could see them helping point us slash me to some really cool [00:17:00] content from anywhere out there.

Now in the horse racing world, it could be a discussion on the third graph message board, or it could be. On the blood horse or the TDN or the DRF, and to be able to put the best stuff in one place, uh, that could be really cool. So just, just an idea, I’m kicking the tires on, you can let me know what you think of that.

If you have an opinion. And if there’s one thing I know about our listeners, they have a lot of opinions. Okay. For sure. That’s why they got themselves involved in this game. It’s the game of my opinion is better than yours. And I made the Twain quote before. That’s the one of the best Twain quotes ever.

It, we’re not best that we should all think alike. It is difference of opinion that makes horse races. And with that in mind, we’re going to pivot to talk about opening day at Santa Anita, a stakes studded card, and it all kicks off. J K with race number four. What are you thinking? The, you know, [00:18:00] look, this is one of my favorite days of the year.

It’s always a lot of fun. There’s always some fun maidens. I remember the factor broke his maiden at Santa Anita opening day. One time when I was out here. Um, you always, the, the maiden races here are always fun. The stakes races are always fun. The Malibu, one of my favorite races all year, uh, the first race, I think the stake is in race for, uh, it’s not going to be connected to the, uh, to the pick six, however, you know, the early pick five, which is always, always a staple out in Southern California.

There’s a horse, uh, on the rail Amandine uh, for Jeff Mons, it ran pretty well. Last time had a little bit of a setup. I’m going to go with the more for type and that’s the three miss bad behavior. I thought she ran really well. Last time. Get to Joel Rosario, the switch from, from Bejarano to Joel Rosario.

Um, she’s never not been in the exact, uh, It’s Santa Anita. She’s run there. Six times. She’s won twice. Ran second, four times. I think she’ll get her trip. She’ll be there when they turn for home. And as long as the pace doesn’t get too quick, I think she’ll be able to finish. If you’re looking for a little bit more of a [00:19:00] price, uh, take a look at the six X S gold for Jim Cassidy.

Uh, Kent DeSorbo rode the horse last time down at Del Mar. Um, ran really pretty, pretty well in that spot. You know, it was one by four links, kind of sweep the field. Um, I think that one could come running late if it, if it’s, you know, if it quick ends up a little bit, but, uh, the three miss bad behavior is the one that I don’t want to build around.

I wouldn’t completely fade the one horse down the inside for Jeff Mullins, but you know, from a selection standpoint, I’m going to go with the three horse Ms. Behavior. The fifth is a maiden race. You have any quick thoughts about this one? I don’t want to hold your feet to the fire. If you haven’t thoroughly looked yet.

Yeah. W you know, we talk about it. Um, uh, DRF is going to have a workout report. It’s actually already up. I got a peek at that one. Um, I myself have always preferred, uh, the Andy Harrington clocker report. It’s the he’s there. He’s, he’s, he’s been there. He’s been doing it for a long time. I like to look at both of them.

I prefer to have both. If I was going to have to pick one, it would be [00:20:00] the end of Harrington one. Um, but I like to look at both. They both provide good information. Uh, uh, so Andy’s re workout report. Doesn’t come out until like nine o’clock Eastern the night before the races. So you’ll have to check that out, uh, on Christmas Eve on Christmas night.

Um, but one of the horses that I’ve been following the horse ran really well at low Sal and the slop. Uh, really well, I mean, ran well enough was supposed to run Willy well was mole, Mississippi, uh, for Peter Earnin. I’m gonna, I’m going to lean back on that horse here. Obviously we got to see what the Baffert workout reports are going to be on.

All good. Who’s a half to plump, pretty who won the Kentucky Oaks and then scalper for Speedway. Speedway’s that stable, uh, that, that I believe had collected. So they’ve they’ve, they’ve got a good run. Good thing going with Bob Baffert scalper could be the real deal. Baffert always saves one for opening day, a real talented freaky one.

And so that’s the only concern I have with moments, Mississippi. All right. You know, I should have given you a shout out. Very fun thing about the last show that we did the final show on the DRF feed claps to [00:21:00] you for going out a winner. I mean an eight to five shot, but Hey, to me, an eight to five shot that wins like a one to five shots.

Actually represents pretty great value. Were you able to make any hay with that in real life? Seven to two morning lines. So it wasn’t too, too kitchen chalky. Here’s the thing. So we’re supposed to be flying all day Saturday. I won’t bore you with the whole traveling. World’s long story short. My dad had a confirmed ticket.

He didn’t want to fly alone. Me and Austin were standby. So we had to try to pair him up with us so we could get on the same flight. His flight was our flights were all disasters. We ended up scrapping the whole thing on Saturday. So I went and hung out with a bunch of high school friends. And I just didn’t, I wasn’t on my phone and I just wasn’t paying attention.

And one of my friends who knows I’m involved in the racing said, do you have any good bets today? And I said, I do. And I opened up my phone and they were crossing the wire. I’m dead serious. That’s exactly how it happened. And I was like, Oh geez, here we go. I did not get involved. [00:22:00] Hopefully some listeners did.

And, uh, in any case, I thought that was nice. I know when, uh, When Dave Litwin left DRF. I remember noticing that his pick went out a winner and I, I noted that I don’t, I can’t remember if I mentioned it on the show, but I certainly noted it in my mind. Guy who, you know, he was there for a long time to such a great job, such a great handicapper and somebody who I’ve learned so much, so much from over the years.

In fact, we should have him on the show at some point soon. Um, and I remember thinking how cool that was, that he went out of winter. Glad to see that we will really you, but I’ll ride the coattails on this one, followed in the old footsteps. Okay. JK, let’s move on. To the grade one, LaBrea one of the traditional featured races on Santa Anita opening day.

It goes as the sixth race to 15 local time. What’d you come up? I really liked Tom loop. I really like Phoenix, thoroughbreds. I really liked Bob Baffert and I, and I don’t mind Drayton van Dyke at all. I don’t know [00:23:00] him personally, but I like. I, I I’ve never liked dream tree. I I’ve always tried to beat her.

She ran much better, uh, in the prior rest than I ever expected, she was going to run. Um, I was, I’d always had this idea that I was going to keep trying to beat her. Cause she was undefeated. I’m going to keep trying to beat her. She’s going to be bet off the board. She’s obviously a very likely winner here, but I’m going to go with the three Kelly’s humor.

Uh, blinkers on the switch to Peter Miller, uh, that horse horses kind of in, against the track the last few times, not really where you want it to be. Um, I think she’ll come running late and happy, like a fool as the reason that I feel so comfortable with Kelly’s humor is, you know, happy like a fool is one of those quick Wesley ward types obviously can get out of the gate.

Well, has some nice early speech. She drew the rail. She’s got really only one way to go. I think she should cook things up a little bit. And, uh, and make them run a little bit quicker. And I’m hoping that it falls apart going seven with a lot of these fillies coming in, uh, you know, with, with different distance situations in their previous.

And I’m going to go with the three Kelly’s [00:24:00] humorous eight to one in the morning line. Uh, I’m against embolden. If you look at the DRF workout report, not working well, Baffert horses don’t work bad and run. Well, it just doesn’t happen. That can happen. In other barns, you can see that C plus they’ll run through it.

Cheeky Barnes, especially, but Bob Baffert is born. It doesn’t happen. If they worked bad, they run bad. Uh, and it makes a ton of sense why this filly shows up here, obviously she’s, she’s well bred. She’s a good dolphin type, getting her a grade one. Uh, and this can, you know, obviously in this race would be very, very important.

So she shows up here anyways, I’m going to go with the three Kelly’s humor, lots of good information there for a second. I thought you were trying to solicit our first sponsor with the Phoenix thoroughbred plug there. JK. Manage as much money as they send it to say, it’s been at the sale. They can throw us a couple of dollars getting there.

Let’s move on to the Mathis brothers mile. JK, how are we going to keep the good times rolling on Santa Anita opening day. I’m going to hop on this sun, uh, sort, sorta Frankel for Todd Pletcher and John Velasquez. And you do that horse, uh, obviously [00:25:00] possesses a ton of speed, um, and, and is talented. Ran, you know, Randall well enough.

Um, throughout his career so far, usually it a little bit shorter, but obviously the flat mile on the nice I’m imagining that golf, that turf course is going to look like a putting green out there. Uh, no one’s been on it for a long time. The rail will be down. I think you do could be loose in here. Now, look, he’s probably not going to be much value.

He’ll probably be seven to two, five to two, and then river Boyne will take a bunch of money. We’re Boyne was without a doubt. The most likely winter river Boyne is the most talented, the most consistent you look at all the ones in his, in his PPS from winning races and got beat last time by, by, uh, Bye Christina, Helmers, uh, raging bull, but, but, but the boy is obviously the most likely winner, but I’m going to go with Geetu a little bit.

And then the kind of interesting horse that I think I would try to hook up underneath, or if you feel for some reason that they could possibly fall apart. [00:26:00] Um, I think combatant is interesting. Now the horses, you know, ran well. Uh, last time at Zia park ran a nice figure that day as, as, as, as you know, ran well enough, he ran well enough at Saratoga and the better talk now, uh, where he ran forth, beaten a length, you know, it’s at East coast, not really an East coast turf horse, but he’s an East coast horse.

Who’s run on the turf and run well enough on the turf. And now he shows up here. Obviously train by, by Steve asked me to send you get Jose Ortiz. Um, I think combatant is a little bit interesting as a son of scat daddy, and we know what they’ll do, uh, on the Greenstone. Oh yeah. Uh, lots of a Royal Ascott form represented here actually on opening day, you mentioned happy like a fool in the last  in here.

And then of course, uh, uh, from a breeding standpoint, the scat daddy makes you think of ask it as well. Pretty interesting stuff. JK let’s move on to race eight, the San Antonio, as we had on to it’s the start of the late pick three, but [00:27:00] it’s one of the final two races that we’ll be talking about. Two in the three, a battle of midway dApps there, obviously they, they, they were, uh, heading head there and the native diver as they turned for home and, and battled all the way through there.

And those two horses are probably the most likely winners. They have the fastest figures. Uh, they’ve they’ve been the most accomplished. They ran well in the last race. Uh they’re they’re, they’re coming from the big connections with Hollendorfer and Baffert, uh, they’re going to get bet. I’m going to try to get cute with this tatters to riches.

Uh, that horse went on debut at Del Mar back in the day, obviously has had some issues throughout. Um, and now he shows up here, uh, blinkers on, um, and, and trying the mile and a 16th. Uh, the farthest he’s ever run one a mile. A couple of times the horse is extremely talented. I think the horse presents a lot of value because I think he’ll be ignored compared to the other two.

And so I’m going to try to try to hook up patters and riches in here. Okay. No love for gift box in the spot. No, the workout report. Wasn’t great. And [00:28:00] I, I, uh, I don’t think that that, that bedding horses off of Chad Brown. Is necessarily, uh, uh, a remedy for success, you know, I mean, if there was something that can be done, Chad would probably have figured it out with him.

There’s now no offense to John Sadler, who, who, uh, obviously costs me a lot of money in the nearest cup classic, but, but I just, and then the workout report that I’ve seen so far, the DRF workout report it isn’t loving how gift boxes going. Um, so. That’s another reason to check out the other workout reports that are available to kind of compare it’s obviously an opinion-based, uh, report.

So, you know, see, let’s see what the other ones say, but no, not, not so much gift box for me. I think one of those, one of those two favorites will be probably the most likely winners, but I think tatters to Rich’s private prisons to the most makes sense. Let’s go on to the Malibu the days other grade one seven furlongs race nine, 4:00 PM.

Pacific. What are your thoughts? I had to bring an extra, an extra [00:29:00] bag. I checked the bag for the first time, because I needed to make sure that this time, when I came out to California, I had my silver wig. You know, it has its own little case, a little traveling case. So I wanted to make sure I had it. Uh, he, he it’s, it’s like a Chad Brown turf race.

You got four Baffert entered in here. Um, I only want two of them and that’s a, a McKinsey. Uh, interesting. Draw the cut back, you know, he stretched. And then, uh, when he ran him on one of his best numbers, he ever ran was his debut when he went, when he was going seven. So the seven is not going to be an issue for him for these talented types.

I think that he could be extremely dangerous. He’s going to probably be the favorite. He’ll be a very short price, uh, drawn outside. Mike Smith should be able to do whatever he needs to do with McKinsey, but let’s not forget how good Axe man was. For a small period of time. Uh, obviously things went the wrong direction with him.

He had a little bit of a break. I think he’s back now. He’s got a ton of speed. I, the seven could be right for him as well. Um, those are [00:30:00] the only two I want. Uh, the workout reports so far seems to like ax man a little bit. We’ll see what the other ones say. McKinsey is always going to probably having a nice workout.

She’s just a talented horseshoe who went off. I, I believe if he wasn’t favored, he was very close to being favored and the breeders come classic off of his performance and the Pennsylvania Derby. Those are the only two that I want. I think a lot of people might fall for the Niro thing. He’s too much of a, of a cookie guy for me.

I won’t make fun of you, Pete, if you pick seven trumpets and I’ll be rooting for actual, I’ll be rooting, I’ll be voting for ag. So rod, um, I feel like he wants further. But I don’t have any reason to believe that or that I, that I know that that’s true. Um, but I, you know, I think that he could present a little bit of value.

Um, and, and there’s one more, I’ll just say, and, and, and I don’t mind throwing out another horse. I’ve said like four horses names, but, um, obviously just using ax, man, and McKinsey is my, is my main presses here. Uh, but still having fun, ran a huge race. [00:31:00] Uh, in the Woody Stevens. And let’s not forget that if this thing finds a way to fall apart, this is a horse that can close a little bit.

You get Kent, DeSorbo kind of the trip. You could see kit, you know, blowing up. Everybody’s picked six, come running late on the outside and snapping McKinsey and ax man in the lane. Uh, still having fun could be ignored on the West coast and he could be a little bit of a good price. I do like seven trumpets again here.

I haven’t fully done the work on this, obviously, why I’m letting you talk the whole time today about these, uh, picks. But this is a horse who just, um, you know, basically have the proverbial contract with at this point based on some of the prior efforts and, you know, the, uh, wind might be out of reach, but very interesting vertical underneath key.

Couple of questions for you about Axman man. The first. The fact that he’s a first time gelding, how much does that add to his appeal to you? Yeah. And you know, it’s not funny. You don’t really see Baffert age. I got such expensive horses. It’s not a thing that you see very often, uh, often for him. So, um, [00:32:00] you know, it’s, it’s, you know, probably suggest that whatever was going wrong with him had to do.

Um, had to do with, with, with, with something that, you know, relating to, uh, uh, the, the man part, she didn’t what the mind or the manufacturer it’s one or the other, I guess you’d just call them the Colt parts. Aren’t the horse part, Nicole cold parts. Yeah. But, um, you know, from all accounts working well now, um, talented horse, you know, talented, talented horse that, uh, that really made a lot of noise.

Remember he ran on the undercard in front of justify and Randy huge, huge figure. Uh, ran really good that day blew those horses away. So it’s definitely, I wouldn’t take it as a negative. I was taking as a positive, I would take it as I would take it as that narrative build that we talk about. When you start at the bottom of the PPS, you know, he runs the big number.

Then he gets thrown into the stakes company and kinda does it run well, uh, gets a break, comes back, wins, wins, and then go kind of goes, [00:33:00] sour gets along, break, comes back with no man parts. And now you think that that’s the reason. That the break had to happen. And, um, and, and hopefully those issues have been resolved.

And according to the workouts, he he’s, he’s traveling in the right direction. Now you can be honest and admit that the real reason you like Axe, man, is those silks with the Longhorn right on there? Well, it doesn’t hurt. It doesn’t hurt at all. Um, it does definitely. It definitely doesn’t hurt, uh, one bit, and I will say this, this is one of those moments where you get some, uh, It’s not that it’s not true.

I believe we’ve hinted at it a long time. We’ve just never said it out loud. So if you, if you weren’t picking up the clues, now you can get it, go to XB TV and watch Axman work and, and, and, and, and learn more about what it is that you’re looking at when it comes to horse flesh. If they’re running, if they’re working in company, Is, it’s really easy to get an idea of what’s going on with a horse.

It’s harder when they’re by themselves. If you don’t know what you’re looking at, but if they’re in-company you just look at the jockeys hands and SBTV does a great job with a lot [00:34:00] of their videos of showing these workouts. And I think that, uh, I would imagine that they’ll have some of ax man’s last few works.

So you can put your eyes on him rather than just looking at the. Numbers on the bottom of the PPS or the words that someone else wrote and a workout report you mentioned SBTV because I did have on my list of things to talk about, probably the last thing we’ll talk about as time is ticking on this Christmas Eve, uh, the changes at Santa Anita, I’m going to start off with the positive, which is it is going to be great to get, to watch our pal Frank Mir Mati fulfill his dream of being the Santa Anita track announcer for this meat.

That is absolutely fantastic. In my view, you know, I’m somebody, I think who typically will hold two thoughts in their head at the same time, more than some, I think that’s, uh, something that I, uh, have a decent amount of skill when it comes to that. But it’s also okay to feel bad for Michael Rona and the way that that all went down.

We never talked about it on the [00:35:00] show, just because we’ve been so busy with other things that wasn’t by design. Uh, some of the changes there do seem less than positive and make you wonder what’s going on. Um, especially on the X PTV side. Um, but it is what it is, and it doesn’t prevent me from being very happy for Frank.

How cool is it going to be, will you go visit him? Will you watch a race in the booth with him on opening day or when he has an opportunity will during your visit to California? Absolutely. Um, absolutely. Frank is, uh, I, I, no, let me back up. I loved Michael Rona. I thought he did a great job. Um, um, I think that Michael’s been, he was always very nice to us.

He would always come down to the Logan after, after race, after calling races and, um, great, great. He was, he was, he was great. I, it was almost to a certain point. I almost kind of giggled at one of the lines in the press release about wanting someone to interact with the fans. [00:36:00] Obviously, Frank’s going to be great at that.

I’m going to praise him in a couple seconds, but Michael did that. He, I mean, he made my mom feel great. One time, he just talked to my mom for 15, 20 minutes and she just thought he was the greatest thing in the world now. I will say that. And I will say this. I was, I was at Monmouth park when, at the beginning of Frank and I’s relationship and I texted him asking for pizza advice and he said, don’t do anything, send me your address.

And he sent, he got the pizza and had it delivered to the hotel I was staying at. Frank’s an amazing man. He’s, he’s unbelievably funny. Uh he’s he he’s encouraging. He’s uh, he’s, he’s great. He’ll do great in that job. And I’m very, very happy for him, but I agree with you. Uh, you know, sorry that someone adds to, to be on the bad end of that, and really sorry that it had to be someone that I like and admire, and Michael Rona after, especially what they went through.

I mean, it really was always a question. The question being who should be the Santa Anita track announcer that had to right answers, right. [00:37:00] But after that whole audition, which must’ve been very taxing, just doesn’t feel great, but you know, there’ve been changes at higher levels at Santa Anita and people responsible for that.

Presumably aren’t there now. And anyway, it’s, it’s a bit of a mess. It needed to be acknowledged on the show. Do you have another quick thought on it? Two things, I’ll say one thing, then I’ll pivot to one more thing. So what happened? Just so people that don’t know is the management changed the manager that made the decision about Franklin and Michael.

Is not there anymore. And so that decision was made and that’s why it seems so weird, but that’s why they had the competition. There was a decision made and then this happened it’s, it’s the change in management, which, which happens at Stronick from time to time. I will say this. I’ve seen a lot of people cash in this roulette.

Bet. You know, essentially what it is is, is, is, is they’re gonna, they’re gonna pull horses as red. They’re gonna pool a couple of horses as black. And some long shots as green. And so a novice or new player can come in and just pick red, black or [00:38:00] green and, and, and play like that, where they only have three options.

A lot of people think that, you know, that it’s it’s, it’s not good. I’ve heard a lot of people talk about it. Not being good. I actually think it’s great. And let me tell you why. I think it’s great. It’s because no, it is not the answer that saved racing, but it is the answer. That is less intimidating for a new player.

It is, it is, it is less defeating for a new player and it keeps that new player coming back. I don’t care if new guy puts a hundred in the wind pool, so I get better odds. I don’t care about that. I want new guy to have a good time. And turn into the guy that puts a thousand dollars in the wind pool in our game, the entry to our game is so complicated that we don’t hook the hundred dollar guy and turn them into a thousand dollar guy.

And I think that bets like this can hook a hundred dollar guy and turn him into a thousand dollar guy. [00:39:00] If there’s a new game in Vegas and you walked by it and you put a hundred dollars down and you lose your 130 seconds, you’re not coming back. But if you go to the game and you play for three hours, you get a bunch of free drinks.

You sit next to a pretty girl, suddenly you’re, you’re back the next day, playing that game. And that’s how I feel about this roulette thing. It’s not the answer, but it’s something that could keep people playing and then they learn and they love, and then they come back and then they start. Reading books and playing pick fours, and now we can take their money.

You know what I mean? Like, I don’t understand why people get so upset about innovation. Like you make some great points and I’m in the camp of holding out judgment, Steve Beck. And I talked about this on, at the race as he, uh, at like many do was cynical. And I understand some of the cynicism, but for me, The key thing here is if it can be that experience that you’re describing.

Great. I worry that if these are small pools [00:40:00] that computer betting players have access to, if there ever was any value in it, you’re going to see it just like quickly drained. But, and it’s not the value that really bothers me. It’s. The price changing. I feel like if you want to market to your customer, your a hundred dollars customer JK, you need.

Fix the hots for something like this. I just think it anti markets, us between our already high takeout and then those odds changes. I just feel like it could be doomed from that point of view of like, I just think it’s going to be so hard to talk to sports betting types and say to them, Oh, when you know, you’re getting even money on this proposition.

Wait a second. It’s one to two. And I, that makes a ton of sense. You’re you’re a hundred percent right about that. That’s not right. Going to be good. And so, I mean, if you could do, if you could somehow do this bat as super low takeout as, um, [00:41:00] big Stoddard’s, if you could make that happen, maybe you don’t, let’s see RWS play in this pool.

I mean, that’s another possibility if you just keep it really small, but I mean, the fact is if the pools, the pools are going to be so small that the odds changes. I just think it might be a problem. It’s something to look out for. Um, I do believe there are technological solutions out there. Of course.

Seems unlikely given some of the resistance we’ve seen to updating the tote system that, uh, it’s going to happen over this. But anyway, that’s my sort of counter-argument but I’m absolutely okay. Seeing what happens and withholding judgment for bit. Yeah. I think that, I think that we we’ve we’ve uncovered a thing that we’ll talk about throughout the show is it’s it’s it probably is coming.

It’s probably an incomplete thought. Right. Like, it’s probably like, it’s, it’s, I think it’s barking up the right tree, but there’s probably a lot of holes that I’m going to predict that they didn’t fill. Um, and, and keeping it [00:42:00] from, you know, getting, being a problem and keeping it positive as it can be. The other thing is like, you know, who who’s, who’s doing the pairings and why, and how are they doing them?

Are they making them fun and interesting and dynamic? Or are they just kind of, is it. You know that that’s going to matter as well too. I think what the pairings of the other groupings of the red, black, and green, it’ll be interesting to see. We’ll talk about that more, but we are over time. My friend. On this very first edition of the, in the money players podcast.

I want to thank you JK for taking time away from your family during this time a year, especially you have, uh, you, you have done me a real solid here helping out keeping things moving seamlessly. And I very much. Appreciate that. I also want to thank, uh, somebody who I reached out to, uh, hadn’t talked to in a while and was able to help out with the logistics of this show.

Uh, he’s a man who never plays the full. Producer, DJ [00:43:00] unstable. Thank you very much, DJ. And most of all, I want to thank all of you for listening, especially all of you who checked out our last show and then came right back for this show. Very much. Appreciate the support. Keep it coming. We’re going to keep posting.

You’re going to keep listening. It’s going to be a lot of fun. Check us out also in the money I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. We will be back on Friday. One more thing for you, JK. You said you’d do anything, but help me move. Will you help me fill out my eclipse ballot on the next year?

Absolutely. I have the paperwork ironically, in my bag. I’m ready to go. I love it. We will get that taken care of. We’ll be back later in the week. May you win all your photos. [00:44:00] .


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  • Great show guys! So glad you guys are still on the air and keeping us day to day grinders at the front of your focus. Best nuts and bolts show in the industry imo. Look forward to hearing more and definitely try to get Dave Litfin on.

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