Show #24 – Thursday, March 14 (Marshall Gramm, Nancy Holthus)

It’s a preview of Rebel Day at Oaklawn Park. First, Marshall Gramm is here to talk about his new racetrack economics class and give some Saturday thoughts. Then Fox Sports’ Nancy Holthus stops by to talk about her life in racing and go in-depth with her thoughts on the Saturday OP stakes.

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***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

Hello, and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is show number 24. It is Thursday, March 14th, and I am coming to you from Cheltonham. In fact, this is. Peter Thomas foreign, a towel coming to you from the top, top, top, top of Eva sham road in Cheltonham, but Cheltonham is not what I’m here to talk to you about today.

Folks, maybe we’ll get to a recap in an upcoming show. One of my favorite race meetings in the world, but right now, for the purposes of this show, we are going to take a look at Oaklawn park this weekend, and we have some very. Special guests to help you do that. We’ll get to them in a minute. First up, I’m going to introduce the cohost of this program.

The in the money players podcast, he’s coming to you from the planet, Texas. He’s the people’s champion. He’s Jonathan kitchen. What’s up JK. I’m I’m picking out my hair. I need to get a hair cut. It’s a pre, a pre haircut ritual. You guys would be giggling very, it looks like a microphone, proper Afro. I got the pick right here.

I’m going to work on it. I’m just excited that, uh, the airplane I’m gonna be traveling on to California this weekend is not a seven 37. Geez, Louise. Scary thoughts here, JK. What’s going on out in California. You do in the show again. Little Fox little Fox sports action, uh, from the studio, I think, uh, maybe a little Greg Wolf, little Paula Duca, uh, it’s gonna be weird to be at St.

Anne either without racing going on, but, uh, But I’ll be locked away in the studio. I won’t know the difference. All right. Well talk more about, what’s been going on with you and Fox and the Santa Nita situation on the next show on this show, we’ve got two guests to talk about Oak lawn coming up a little bit later.

We’ve got Nancy Holt this before that. We have another guest and I’ll get to him as soon as I tell you that this show is brought to you by our friends at black type thoroughbreds. For more information about how you can get involved in thoroughbred ownership, check out black type All right. And now we’re welcoming him back to the show.

A great supporter of us for quite a long time and somebody whose insight. We always appreciate whether it’s talking about economic issues associated with the game or the specifics of what goes on on the racetrack, including in his own stable Marshall Graham of 10 strike racing. Marshall, how are you today?

Well, it’s great to join you all, but I really think this is my inaugural appearance on your show. Right? The other things we’ve done have been like with Steve Beck and things of that nature. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is my first time, but again, great, great to join you all. I’ve been listening to you all for years.

We’ve just, we’ve, we’ve hung out and we’ve hung out with Marshall way too much because it’s all run together. This is probably the 978 time we’ve spoke to Marshall and just, we’ve never, we’ve never been coordinated. You know, that does happen sometimes with JK when in our private conversations. W it’ll either be, I then later think we did it on the show or I’ll often cuss and be like, you know, the last 20 minutes would have made a great podcast.

Why didn’t we record that? I think it’s that type of thing. Well, apologies for the miss introduction. Marshall. Great to have you here for the very first time. No, again, no province. Uh, again, you’re right. We get on these conference calls or I talked to one of you for a long time about racing and other topics and you’re right.

It’s it’s, uh, Um, you get easily confused. Well, we want to get your very quick thoughts. Marshall, on the racing this weekend, before we talked to you a little bit, generally, we’ll do an in-depth look with JKS thoughts as well, a little later in the show. But before we get to that, I just wanted to ask you a general question about how the split of the rebel has gone down this year.

JK, I know you have strong views on this and I’ll bring you in in a minute. But Marshall were you pleased with the, with the way Oakland was able to intercede sort of on Santa Nita’s behalf in a way here with the rebel being split into two divisions. Well, I think it’s good for Oak lawn. I think it’s good for the sport in general.

Um, the fact that they opened it up to two divisions, the fact that they have both a problem game winner coming will be, uh, you know, a huge attraction. There’ll be tons of fans that will show up who wouldn’t have otherwise come out to the races to see both those horses, you know, from the bedding standpoint, it’s not ideal.

Uh, really the, the, it makes both races, uh, Very difficult to bet. You’ll have to, uh, you know, large favorites and likely winners. But again, from Oaklawn standpoint, from a racing fan, not necessarily better standpoint to help out say Nita, um, all of those things. I think it’s a good thing. JK, your thoughts.

Yeah, I completely agree. I think that, you know, look Baffert is, is, is our superstar trainer and he, uh, he’s a, he’s a, a ticket seller and his two undefeated horses are ticket sellers. And I have no problem with people having an earned advantage. He’s earned the fact that he can say, look, I’m going to bring these two horses, but I don’t want them in the same division.

Uh, and if you’re gonna, if you can’t do that for me, that I’m going to just bring one and I’ll send the other one to aqueduct or to fairgrounds. Or to the Florida Derby or all, you know, whatever to Sunland and I just don’t really have a problem with it. And so, um, I understand that it’s not ideal. And I completely agree with, with Marshall.

I think Nick camera said the same thing. It’s not ideal for, from a betting standpoint, but it’s, what’s right for the game. It’s what we it’s what’s right for the situation. And it’s going to be fun. I mean, how, I think it’s pretty cool that you’re going to have those two divisions and those two horses can remain undefeated.

And, and then the next race, uh, they can be undefeated and we show up, you know, show up in the first Saturday in may, we’ve got an undefeated, undefeated, improbable, and undefeated game winner. And the silver wig is out in full effect. I think it’s kind of fun. Don’t tip your head. JK. We’re talking silver wig a little bit later in the show.

Marshall, I want to ask about your race, track economics course, whose name I’m butchering, but I believe that starts up really soon. If it hasn’t started already. What is going on with that? And how are you looking forward to this semester? Well, we kicked things off, uh, on Tuesday, uh, with the, I have 41 students in my class this semester.

So we’re up a tick from, um, the first time I taught the class. And, uh, yeah, we got rolling. Uh, we, uh, we talked a little bit about, uh, markets and pricing. I’m very interested in markets and pricing and, and, and sort of how I connect, uh, how I connect, what we do in, in wagering and handicapping to economics and, um, in finance.

And so, uh, so I’m very excited about it. Uh, we’re going to cover a bunch of topics, uh, you know, we’ll do traditional handicapping stuff. We’ll, we’ll talk about reading the form today. We’ll do some, a deep dive in the speed figures. We’re going to do an econometric model of pace and use that to determine track bias.

Um, and then, uh, again, we’ll have it handicapping contest in class. That was very exciting. Uh, last time it came down to the last race with seven people in competition and really lets them sort of apply some of the skills they learn in this class to, to analyzing races. I focus a lot more on. On trying to, to what I call find value and, uh, you know, identifying likely horses that are priced.

I don’t really talk about the betting part of the game. I try to steer clear of, um, of, of bedding in, uh, betting gambling so much, I guess, with the. Changes in the federal law, it’s probably less frowned upon, but, uh, I just don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to cross any lines. I don’t want to seem like I’m encouraging gambling, but we do talk a lot about discovering value.

And, uh, and those are kind of the tools that I hope to teach them both from a handicapping standpoint and from a sort of a broad sense, trying to make small sample size decisions. Marshall, obviously last year was the, it was the maiden voyage of this class. What, what things. Uh, are you, have you tweaked, are you going to do different this year?

That maybe you feel like you. You missed or didn’t get deep enough into, or, or that you, you know, last year, and then it is the class going to culminate with a trip to the dog track. Well, we will do it. We will certainly do a dog track track trip this time. Uh, this time I have the fortune that. Pete will be one of my guest lectures when he comes down for the Arkansas Derby.

Um, I hope many of the kids will be able to make that field trip out to Oaklawn as well. Last year, it didn’t fall. Uh, it didn’t fall. Uh, the Arkansas there, we didn’t fall at the right time. So I do, I do have a couple of trips planned and in Oakland ship involves, uh, some behind the scenes stuff as well.

Uh, from a construction as a class standpoint, I, I felt like, uh, I moved very quickly. I. Uh, when I was talking to the class on it on the first day, none of them had any sort of experience or exposure to horse racing. And so, um, you know, even the, the, the sort of idea of interpreting what the odds mean, right?

What is six to one? What is five to two? Uh, they don’t have any experience with that. So I’m really sort of scaling back. Uh, and slowing down my introduction to the course, moving a little bit more slowly. Last time I dove right into constructionist speed figures and modeling pace and a week too quickly shoved a lot into, um, shove a lot into the beginning of the course, trying to make out my exam scheduled, really trying to be prepared for your visit, um, uh, in the spring of 2017.

So I’m just mostly spreading out the material, trying not to make it as dense. Um, and, uh, and you know, hopefully, usually it takes, uh, about three courses to perfect, a three times teaching the Perfecta course, and hopefully there’ll be big improvements, uh, both in terms of the way I present the material and the amount that they’re able to retain and, uh, enjoy going forward.

If Pete and I took the final right now.

So pizza actually seen the exam for actually think y’all would struggle. So part of it is, and I’m, uh, I’m obsessed with, uh, pricing. And so there are a lot of pricing calculations. And so I’m not sure that, uh, that, uh, you might have those, uh, formulas, uh, in your head to be able to sit down and turn your daily doubles into, into probables for the next leg to turn your, um, You know, w uh, when probabilities into projected patients place, place in show probabilities, determined to turn into track back to probabilities.

So that’s a lot of what I, I like to do. I don’t know necessarily even how valuable it is for a handicapper, but I do think that the public, uh, gives us the biggest piece of information in terms of the way the prices are revealed. So, you know, to me, the starting point is always the towed board. Classic case of JK tries math fails is what it is, what I’m hearing here from you, Marshall.

And as far as big changes in the course, clearly one of your priorities is to upgrade your guests. If you’ve booted out JK and invited me to come down and guest lecture. Well, I’d still love to have JK coming down. Maybe, maybe he’ll make that, uh, uh, trip for the Arkansas Derby for Fox sports, and then can, uh, join Pete, uh, on the Thursday before we’ll record a sliding glass.

You went into, sorry, you went in and wasted. The, uh, you wasted your, your NAC winnings on a, on a horse. I thought you were going to buy the private jet. You’re going to, you’re going to hit the double with the, with the Arkansas Derby and the Keelan contest. I do. Yeah. I had one the whole thing, right. If I had won the whole thing, that would have been, uh, that would’ve been the way to go, but you’re right.

I didn’t, I didn’t make it a week without spending that money on a horse. And I think I spent that money multiple times. I’ve been telling people and I just, my daughter just turned 16 and I got her a car. So that’s, you know, more of that money, more of that money disappearing. I probably spent it, uh, Uh, more than one.

I want to talk to you about your contest success. You’re incredibly impressive, somewhat low key contest success, but I have one more question about the students in your class and looking at the NHC final table that you were a part of seeing the young analytical minds that did so well in our winter.

Scott Coles and Matt vag, golgi and others. They’re not the only ones. You’re in touch with the students who obviously have those kind of brains as well. What can racing do Marshall to do more, to attract these young analytical minds and to get them betting through our game, as opposed to losing them to the financial markets, to sports, betting, to poker and all the increased competition for their, uh, wagering and or investing dollars.

Well, I don’t, I don’t want to sound like a broken record, but I mean, the main thing is pricing, right? I mean, if you compare, if you compare horse racing to other betting and Denver’s to sports betting to financial markets, uh, you know, you’re talking about a return on your dollar of, you know, 75 to 85 cents and relative to sports betting.

Relative to finance is just, it makes the game a real struggle for anyone to win. If you’re not, if you’re, um, if you’re betting into racing with this 18% Taiki, it’s it’s, you know, it’s, you have to, you have to be incredibly good, uh, 0.001% to beat racing with that kind of takeout and in sports betting with a takeout rate of a four and a half percent.

You don’t have to be as good. And so I think that’s one of the primary, uh, impediments to sustain, sustaining. Uh, betters is the fact that the price is too high. We’re driving people away, uh, when they, when they, you know, when they can’t win and there’s a steep learning curve to racing as well. Again, I walk into my class, none of them know anything, and we’re just going to really scratch the surface.

And the fact that the price is so high makes it difficult to sustain, uh, students. The other part of it is that we need to sell our sport is an intellectual pursuit. Right. We need to sell the, the bedding part of our sport. The analytical part of our sport as, uh, uh, as, um, as, uh, is, is, is sort of what it is.

It’s a, it’s a, it’s a mathematical puzzle that, uh, uh, that’s available for you to attack, uh, you know, uh, Yeah. A hundred times a day. Right. Uh, and, uh, um, you know, I think that should be part of the sell. There are a lot of great things about our sport, a lot of great things that are very appealing, the party atmosphere, uh, the thrill of watching a race, but the other is the analytical part of it.

The statistics part of it, I got into racing, uh, as a sixth or seventh grader growing up because of the numbers, because it, uh, you know, it was this statistics driven. Uh, data-driven sport. You’ve given the example many times of looking in the Washington post and reading Andy buyer’s great work and being inspired to check that out and to go deeper.

The way that many of us were originally attracted to baseball because of the numbers and the early days of saber metric Stratimagic, whatever it was. You feel like that’s an attraction that goes well beyond the people listening to this podcast that we can maybe cast a wider net out into the world. No doubt.

I mean, here, you’re an active participant in the sport, right? For the, you know, minute and 15 seconds or minute 12 seconds that a horse is racing. I own a piece through my bet. Right. And, uh, you know, growing up to growing up as the boy who loved numbers, uh, you know, I’d be naturally drawn to baseball, but baseball isn’t is inherently boring, somewhat factor you say, but baseball is inherently boring and, uh, there’s nothing more exciting than watching a horse race.

And there’s nothing more exciting to have a, in a peanut on a race in C or, and come through or, or see it not and figure out what you did wrong. It’s, it’s a, it’s a great puzzle. I’ll go a little, uh, get off my lawn here and say, I’ll accept that comment. Only if we’re specifying, we’re talking about the 2019 version of baseball, not the version I fell in love with in 1978, but that’s a very fair, very fair.

I would absolutely agree with that. That’s a tangent. We don’t need to go down and weave and JK is falling asleep as we go into our baseball tangent. I know that as well. I promised we were going to talk. At least a little bit about contests that low key amazing achievement I was talking about was to in the same year, have a high in the money, finish in the breeders cup betting challenge, and also make the NHC final table.

Really pretty impressive. Not that many players have shown the ability to have both of those clubs in their bag. Somebody like Garrett ski, but leaps to mind immediately, but it’s very often you’ll find players who are really good at one format. Or the other, not necessarily both. How important are contests to you, Marshall in your horseplaying and why do you play them?

Well, I love the live bankroll contest. I wish I could play more. I’m kind of on an Island here in Memphis, Tennessee. Um, there have been more online live bankroll contests. Uh, out there, uh, through express express bet do Niara bets. Um, and so I will, I’ll play more this year. I only played three, uh, three contest in 2018.

That’s amazing. And, um, And, and, and, you know, I always try to, I love, uh, Jim Goodman contest the Keeneland contest, but it always overlaps with the Arkansas Derby. Um, I’ve tried to urge Jim to send down the chemo yeah. To fly up all the Arkansas players more tournaments. But, uh, so, uh, and I played in Iris Belmont, uh, betting challenge last year.

Again, the, I wish I could play more. It’s a little bit tough being on it Island. Um, again, I think they’re great. I think the live bankroll contest, especially encouraged churn. Uh, so they’re great for the racetracks. Uh, um, and they’re great for the players because they offer an opportunity to have a winning date, both if you’re correct, and to get sort of added money.

Uh, added money paid out. I struggle with the $2 wind place contest. Uh, th this year’s run at the NAC was, uh, Uh, luck in anomaly, right? I’ve never had any, any, um, any success there before, and it’s not really a contest sort of, uh, that fits my skillset. Um, and so, uh, and so I’m alive bankrupt player. I, again, I, I go to the NAC because of the comradery, because it’s really a HorsePlayers convention.

And, uh, you know, I I’ve, I’ve qualified a number of times. I hope to qualify again. It’s just a very narrow window. Uh, when, when I placed you contest as I do. So, Marshall, I think, you know, Pete mentioned your, your success in contest. And I think most people know the success of 10 strike, but you know, I don’t know how many titles you’ve wanted parks and how many races you win every year.

I know when I was looking at eclipse stuff last year, your name tennis strike was all over the place at the top of those lists for owners. What, how, how does. You’re you’re horseplay, you’re handicapping. Uh, the, the analytics that you, that you, uh, Excel at when it comes to this game, how does that impact you as an owner and, and 10 strike out?

Well, I think in part, uh, you know, it works both ways that the ownership influences my handicapping, the handicapping influences of my ownership for the claiming game. Uh, and, um, For the claiming game, uh, you know, claiming a race is just an extension of gambling on horses. So I see a horse. I like who’s maybe had a bad trip or maybe has potential to, uh, from a breeding standpoint to be better going long, or maybe just a, you know, maybe a change in racetrack or a change in surface.

And so instead of just betting on the horse, you know, I’ll, I’ll, uh, Uh, get a partner to and buy the horse and, uh, you know, hopefully put it in a better position to win. So, uh, so a lot of, uh, 10th track racing involves, uh, we also have boughten yearlings and two year olds and, and had quite a bit of success doing that.

Uh, we had, we had, uh, Sick five stake wins last year with four different horses. The both of you all, you all were involved in long land value, a horse that, uh, we always, we always liked and followed and just happened to, to, you know, fall to us for a cheap price of the sales. And so we’re, you know, evaluating these horses with my partner, clay Sanders, with our agent and stable manager, Liz Crow.

Hoping to find value again, just like in handicapping, hoping to find value is as an owner, we hope to, uh, find value, uh, when we’re buying yearlings. And two-year-olds, we, uh, you know, we, we take close, look at pedigrees. Uh, we do heart scans, uh, when we do a lot of analysis to determine as a team, uh, kind of which horses that we want to look at.

And, uh, you know, Liz Crow is the key component to this, her, her knowledge of, uh, confirmation. And her understanding of the sales and of the market, uh, has been a key asset for us and the success that we’ve had. Now I know this weekend, uh, you’ll be involved a little bit, uh, on rebel day. Uh, obviously a Warrior’s charges in.

I want to talk a little bit about where you’re charged and in the switch to Jose Ortiz and what you’re expecting from him and the fifth race on Saturday, but also wanted to get your, your thoughts before we let you go on the stakes races that we have come up is airy. Uh, the rebel one, the rebel two, and the Essex.

Well, we think Warrior’s charge has a big chance. I mean, we’ve been very excited about that horse, uh, um, really for, for, uh, you know, since, since we, since we got him last January, Brad has always been very high on him. Um, I’m hopeful that, uh, uh, with the switch to Jose, uh, he’ll be more aggressively written.

I do a little bit worried about the mile of 16th, uh, warriors charges, the Munnings, uh, you know, so pedigree wise, you wonder if he’s going to be able to go long, but he’s shortened certainly shown a, uh, um, Uh, in this sort of running style, the ability to be patient and to make, uh, uh, make a little, wait a third.

So again, we’re excited about his chances. We were kind of hoping he would have already had broken his maiden by now. We’ve always thought very highly of the horse. Uh, we’d be disappointed if he didn’t, if he didn’t run well. Um, as far as the stakes go, it’s a great card. I’m afraid it’s very chalky. Uh, I mean the two rebel races, it just seems like the, the two favorites, um, improbable the rebel one especially seems, uh, um, seems via the weaker division.

And so it’s really probable really improbables to lose. I, I don’t see a scenario, you know, outside just the horrific trip, uh, where improbable loses and in the second race, I think the secondary is a little bit more competitive, but game winners should still win. I’m sorta curious about our brain trust.

Um, ran third in the Withers. They’re putting the blinkers on which I’m sort of interested at E he was forward. He was forwardly placed in the, um, in the Withers. I guess they want him to focus a little bit more. He didn’t really, he was sort of stalking the whole way around the track of the weather’s in the, made it, you know, strong, late surge to, um, nearly get up for a second.

The Withers number came back really high and the three runners have come out of the Withers and run back. Uh, not that Brady, um, ran lasts in the Gotham right after finishing second in the Withers. And then the two other runners at Tampa finished off the board. Now all of them were long shots. And so, uh, some, again, I’m interested in our brain trust to see how he runs, but I, I’m not getting past game winner, uh, in the Azeri, um, you know, late, I think is the most talented horse in this field.

I wonder the extent that bill Mott is going to have her crank. Uh, she did win the Del cap off a layoff last year, but I think she was, uh, she was, um, I think in part she had the perfect trip. She didn’t particularly run that fast. I’m not sure he had her totally cranked for that race. Uh, but he did have.

You know, nine works, uh, you know, five of them were five for a long works and one was seven for a long is going into that mile and a quarter race last year. I think she’s in terms of her preparation. It’s not been as severe this time. And, and I think also, you know, he’s going to be looking for long-term his goal, not be to win the Azeri and last year late, you know, ran big and the Del cap and then, you know, basically went.

Nose knows that Abel Tasman she was done and it, and it broke able passing as well. Right. Abel Tasman was, was, um, was never the same. And so I think, uh, you know, I think there’ll be looking for a longer, more sustained campaign. And so if she’s not cranked, um, I’m probably going to go at midnight. Bisou you’ll get a better price.

Uh, she’s, uh, you know, she already ran, she’s already running this once this year, and I think it was a better race than maybe the number came back. Uh, you know, she looked beaten, mid stretch and, and kicked on, and I think she should get a good stocking trip here. I am somewhat curious about tappa tappa Kappa just the idea that with all this strong field.

Everyone’s going to be ignoring her and she may get loose on the lead. And, uh, um, you know, might be interesting, you know, probably not to win, but probably in second or third, it is, it is a great field. I mean, um, Shamrock Rose, midnight, Bisou elate Eskimo kisses. Um, you know that along with the two rebels, a lot of star power.

Um, and one thing I wanna say about the ethics, which I think is again, giant expectations. So will, is the likely winner. Just the best horse in this field is, uh, we bought a, yesterday for a 10th strike racing. We bought a hip three, three, uh, by painter at this, at the, uh, OBS Mark sale. And it’s a full ton, a notion that race.

So, uh, you know, again, it’s we bought a cult, so it doesn’t do anything for our page, but, uh, But, uh, we’ll, we’ll have our partners there at the races. And, uh, we’ll be able to talk about the horse that we just bought. That they’ll be part of still nice. Reflect the most for both. Yeah, absolutely. The most important handicap.

And we need you to do before we let you go is we need you to, and I’m not even giving you a prep on this. I know you can do it good. As, as a guy who’s been to hot Springs a lot. I need you to rank the hot Springs pizza. Uh, for us than people that are going to be traveling for the rebel, I’m in disbelief, by the way about this whole hot Springs pizza thing.

Now I did have DeLucas and I did love it, but I’m really curious Marshall to know if this is just hype or if there really are more than one good pizza place in hot Springs. Let’s start there. No, there, there are a handful of good pizza places in hot Springs. I mean, do Lucas is the top. Um, but, uh, you know, there are others that, that are really worth considering.

I think Rocky’s right across the street from Oaklawn park, uh, is a strong second. Um, uh, and I think there’s Sams, which is very good. Um, there are a couple other names escape me right now, but, but it is a, it is a surprisingly lead is a pizza town. So, um, so when you’re there, uh, again, uh, make sure to, uh, to hit a couple of those places in Rockies, again, it’s right across the street.

Great place to grab beer, great place to grab some pizza. All right. Well, we’re going to have you back very soon. Marshall, now that I realize we haven’t bothered you that much, I feel like it’s free rein to bother you a whole bunch. We’ll have to get you back soon. Certainly the Arkansas Derby leaps out as a possible time to do that, but there’s so many different directions.

We can go in conversation and we will get into some of those areas next time. Thank you so much for your time today. Well, I appreciate you having me on. And now I’d like to welcome to the, in the money players podcast, guests. I’ve really been looking forward to, to talk about this weekend at Oaklawn Nancy Holt, this Nancy, how are you today?

I am fantastic. I feel like a big wig being on the show. I have to tell you not at all, but we appreciate it very much. We’re going to start you off with we’ll start off with an easy one that we ask pretty much every guest who comes on this show. Nancy, how did you get involved in racing in the first place?

Well, I was actually like many in the business kind of bred into it. Um, but my family was out of the sport before I got into it. Um, and I was told, you know, don’t get into it, get into something else. So I kind of went against my family’s wishes and, uh, got into it, but it has been an absolute blessing. I like my, uh, Generations.

Prior to me married into the sport, married a trainer, Paul holds us and, uh, it’s been putting food on my family’s tables, uh, like generations before me. And I honestly don’t know what else I would be doing. So, and just happy and blessed to, uh, work and do something that I absolutely love and adore. When you look back at that advice from your family.

Part of me thinks that racing as tough a sport as it is, that’s almost the right advice to give somebody who wants to get into it is do something else. If you have anything else that you’re torn between racing and this other industry to do, but if your heart is so in it, if your passion is there. And you can sort of fight through that initial discouragement then absolutely go for it.

You can have a great life, but looking back at that advice, do you understand where they were coming from? Oh 1000%. Um, and you know, and I. I’ve always heard about the hardships, you know, that they went through, you know, they didn’t have those 40 horse stables and they had to move from meat to meat and, you know, went through those, those really hard struggles, but it made them the people that they are today.

So, uh, you know, if I wasn’t doing this, I truly, I, I would probably be a funeral director to tell you the truth, but I, other than that, I don’t know. Uh, What else I would be doing. And I, and I wouldn’t have met my husband. So, uh, or the friends that I have for that, for that matter of fact. So, uh, it’s it’s uh, it’s we, we like to say we put the fun in dysfunction, so, uh, it’s it really, it really is a, is a, is a cool, cool world and whatever racetrack I go to around the country, I always see a fantastic group of people that I, that I know.

How did you go about getting involved? Um, well, I had a, a best friend in high school whose dad owned resources and when they would, uh, lay up, they would go to their house. They had a big farm and just kind of learn how to rub horses and walk hot. Just like a lot of people did started out mucking stalls.

And my first job on the backside was right here at Oaklawn park. And I was, uh, working a full-time job, going to classes at a community college here and actually through a friend, got my first official job as a racing official in Birmingham. And I, I. Sadly closed down a lot of racetracks. Um, but that was a, that was my first foray into, uh, into the front side, so to speak.

So I figured, you know, that was. Once I got that, uh, kind of introduction. I figured, you know what, that’s, that’s a really cool aspect of the business I really wasn’t introduced to. So I thought, you know what, that’s kind of the path that I really would like to take. So I started, uh, becoming racing officials, uh, primarily in the Chicago circuit and would also come home during the Oaklawn season.

And I worked the spit mocks or the test barn for seven years. So that was kinda my circuit and then ventured out to California. And I eventually became the, uh, the stall man or the state superintendent for around 10 years. Hollywood park was my longtime base. And that’s how I, uh, kind of. Dip my toes into a TBG and freelance there for about a decade.

So kind of, uh, fell into the, the broadcasting with the help of Kate and Brietbart who was my roommate out there? Our dad actually, uh, we’re lifelong best friends, grew up together in Palatine, Illinois. And so, uh, I had that amazing connection through Kaitlin and, uh, it’s kind of all history from there. So, uh, amazing that it led me to work with Jonathan at Fox sports a couple of weeks ago, and it really does come full circle as they say.

So, uh, it’s, uh, become an amazing story. Nancy, you do a lot of human caffeine, obviously having to cover all of these races in Oaklawn and, and, um, How, how much of that transfers over to bedding and, and kind of, what’s your betting personality? Are you spot playing or are you, do you ever happen to get down on your own horses or w what’s what’s kind of your bedding personality?

Well, you know, what’s interesting because my handicapping, I try to start because there’s so much involvement and we do the Oakland today. Pre-race show about an hour and a half before the races start. So. I try to get as much done prep wise, starting the day before. Um, and sometimes, you know, I’ll see in the horses, in the paddock that I’ve picked.

And I just want to bang my head against a wall because I either don’t like the way that they look or the way that they’re acting and it’s too late because I’ve already given that selection out to the public. Um, w. We make, and I put together a, uh, a show parlay and I am loving the show parlay. Um, it’s a good way to make a buck.

And here we have, what’s called the show bet bonus, where if you’re on track, you get a little more incentive and a little more bang for your buck. If, uh, if you’re, if your show horse hits, um, and I’ve become kind of a. Doing really, really well on hitting my show. Partly a 50 cent tip pick five is become a huge return.

Haven’t hit it yet. We had one the other day that paid over 50,000. Um, but I’m really liking the show parlays. Uh, so. If I bet on my own horse, Jonathan, I’m an ankle. I’ve learned that very early on. And as you guys well know, horsemen are extremely superstitious. If I do get down on my own horse, I refuse to hold my tickets.

I don’t know why. It’s not like it’s going to matter, but I refuse to hold my own tickets, but yeah, I will get down on my own on my own horses, but it is, it is, it is rare, but I’m hoping that I will get the purse instead of having to, uh, Gosh, that mutual. It makes sense. You’ve already got so much on so much invested as it were, and I absolutely understand those superstitions.

That’s one way that horsemen and HorsePlayers, I think a lot of the time think alike. And that leads to my next question, which is which of the lessons that you’ve learned from working with horses have helped you most in picking horses? Well, you know what, it’s interesting because. I don’t get as much chance to go out and watch training as I would like to, because I am in the office early in the morning, you know, watching films.

Um, and I really have learned to go back and study films, study previous races, um, and watch those troubled trips and figured out, you know, also which trainers in regards to, uh, you know, morning works really. Back kind of back off the works, w R is, uh, reliant upon morning works, you know, some trainers just hate they’re racing enough.

They back off, um, And also I’ve learned to call which trainers to kind of read between the lines for what they tell me, because I’m not afraid to pick up the phone and say, Hey, what do you think about this horse today? Um, and my new, I know also when to keep my mouth shut when I’m doing my bags. So as well.

Um, so I really, uh, Gone to, uh, when I do my handicapping watching films and kind of really knowing what to look for, you know, because sometimes there’s those finite things, you know, when a horse doesn’t want to make that move to go between horses and also, you know, look for those equipment changes, change of jockey.

Sometimes the fans might not think it’s that big a thing, but sometimes a jock may do just enough to irritate a trainer where they will make that switch. So it’s just sometimes those little finite things. I like to think that I can sometimes not all the time, but, you know, read between the lines. That makes absolute sense.

K. Do you have one more for Nancy before we dive into these races? Obviously you guys were probably going to have a lot, a lot of visitors and hot Springs this weekend. Um, I’ve been fortunate enough to get there a couple of times the last month or so, uh, lots of fun places to hang out. Um, I’ve, I’ve, uh, I’ve touted.

Uh, DeLuca is a few times, uh, unbelievable pizza. Uh Hotsprings is a sneaky, sneaky pizza town. Marshall Graham, I think tweeted that the other day. Um, they got really good pizza all over the place. Nancy, what are some spots you recommend that people check out? Uh, maybe for an adult beverage food, things like that.

Well, a really good place is at well hot Springs is historic. Uh, downtown is, uh, the old historic bathhouse row. It’s where people would come and take those healing waters from the Springs that come up through the ground, uh, right across the street. From historic bathhouse road is legendary historic Ohio club.

Uh, it’s uh, a great, uh, memorabilia and history of when the gangsters were talking Al Capone, we’re talking Oni Madden used to hang out downtown. Um, it’s great history of hot Springs. And when gambling came in and we’re talking like, Old-school gambling. It’s great history on the walls. They’ve got great music.

They have a killer burger. Jonathan had wings. Last time we were there, which kind of blew my mind. I didn’t even know they served wings. Um, but they have a phenomenal. Bloody Mary. So I highly recommend the bloody Mary there. I’ve had a few, I’m not going to say how many, but they have a phenomenal burger they’re known for their burgers.

They also have a great Ruben. Um, just, it’s a fun place to go. It’s really cool. Um, I highly recommend the Ohio club, but there’s some great places out on the Lake as well. So, uh, You can’t really go wrong in hot Springs. There’s also a great new place, a tacos downtown called Diablo’s. They have tacos and mezcal, which I didn’t know what mezcal was, but they have a Chipotle, a margarita that is amazing.

It goes down the list.

Um, yeah, phenomenal and everybody around in hot Springs, which is the coolest thing I call it. Saratoga is the Oaklawn of the North. Just going to say it, but I know you’re laughing, don’t laugh, but everybody, when you go here has just come from the races and it, like, I went there for the first time. The other night, the guy says, how’d you do today with your picks?

It was the first time I’d ever been in there. Everybody is so welcoming and just so, so much erase fan. You pretty much go to any business. They have wind pictures on their walls. It’s it’s they embrace the race. It is just fantastic. So, I mean, Oklahoma’s been here since 1904 and it, and it’s owned by a family.

So you really do get that. Just heartwarming feel. When you come to hot Springs, funnily enough, or you’ve been here P I have. And I just realized this is total coincidence. I usually do the show in my, uh, my sweat pants today. It being the Cheltonham festival, I’m actually fully suited and booted. And by coincidence, the tie that I grabbed.

It was a gift from Charles Selah to my great friend and mentor the racing writer, William Murray, that was passed along to me. So I have a, I have a deep Oaklawn connection on my body right now that I didn’t even realize. And I’ll also say this Nancy over the years, we’ve given out some really good pieces of advice on this podcast, but probably never any better than go easy on the Chipotle, a mezcal margarita.

Well, see, that’s one of the traditions here also is that, uh, the sella family always distributes ties for the gentlemen, employees and scarves for the female employees on Arkansas Derby day. Oh, cool. Yeah. That’s, that’s amazing. And I’ve noticed this Thai is a little bit like a secret handshake. I can recall years ago, I’ll do some name, dropping some serious travel and name dropping.

Now I was at the arc, lucky enough to be at the arc one year and a PR blog. Pep was there and pep says, I know where you got that tie. And I get I, so it really is a thing that tradition continues. It sounds like. That’s fantastic. Yeah. So it was, it was a huge loss, not only to Oakland, but to the sport when Mr.

Sela passed, but his family has done a phenomenal job to carry, uh, to carry on the torch. So we’re just happy and beyond that, you know, we are once again, expanding the game room, and next time you come, there’s going to be a hotel. So beautiful. It just, we just get bigger and better there for the Arkansas Derby.

Very much looking forward to visiting our other guests on today’s show and hopefully we’ll get to hang out as well. And I was scribbling notes, furiously, all those places sound amazing. I can’t wait to check them out. And I know folks have been asking us to do Oaklawn lifestyle stuff on the show for a while.

So excellent question JK. We’re giving the people what they want. Speaking of which I think we should get into an in-depth look at the stakes races are as in-depth as our schedules allow for on Saturday, we’re going to start off with the seventh race. It’s the grade to Azeri Nancy. As our guests. I’m going to ask you to go first and give us your thoughts on this one.

Well, obviously the true standout in this field is midnight. The SU uh, you know, she is just a superstar in her own, right. Um, you know, this is four and up she’s very lightly raced against older. Um, lacked out in that Houston lady classic earned a 91 buyer. And that was her first time against. Technically four and older in that grade three events.

So, uh, never off the board in 12 lifetime starts. So just unbelievably impressive. She is a perfect five for five at a mile and a 16th. And it’s interesting. She’s a Julie one a couple of weeks ago. And I had asked Steve asthmas and if she’s a, Julie was going to go in the  and the post race interview, he says, yeah, we’ll have to see.

And then all Barry says, are you trying to get me fired? And that’d be. Who was going in the Azeri. So obviously I was like, sorry, see, what do you want me to do? You know, midnight V2 is the true standout in this field. I got to CE late, uh, come off the van the other day, bill Mott, you know, won this event in 2014 with closed hatches.

She is coming off the break. However, From that grade one personal incident running second by a neck to a superstar as well. And Abel Tasman, uh, who they are T’s comes into ride, but, you know, she has run pretty well coming off the layoff after that fourth and the breeders’ cup, this app in 2017, came back to run second.

In that Dell handicap when she wants. So she obviously does well off the freshening, but I do truly think that that stand out in here is midnight, be Sue and super excited to see her compete. Uh, Shamrock Roseau has been training here all along. Mike Mark Kasey, uh, likes to have her training over the surface.

So she’s posted really, really strong works. Uh, but I obviously do think that, uh, midnight bee suit is a true standout and. I just kind of choke when I see that she was an $80,000 purchase price at OBS in 17. So just the re the money that they’ve earned off her. So she’s gonna probably go upwards of, uh, close to 2 million after she wins this event.

Not too bad. I love the confidence. JK, who do you think wins? The Azeri. I’m going to Venmo, uh, I’m going to Venmo dances to make sure she gives out midnight VCU on her show. I know a lot of people tune in the casual fans that will be out. I want every single one of them to bet on midnight VCU, because I absolutely love a late in the spot.

I think she’s going to be extremely tough. I just think that. She’s a step ahead of the rest of them. I won’t take credit for this, even though I’ve said it before, but Nick tomorrow tweeted out this week that Shamrock Rose and a midnight BCU, hopefully these races will lead to both of them being cut back, hopefully on Derby day in Humana Distaff I think midnight VCU ultimately is going to is going to really Excel at one turn.

I’ve just never really been wowed by a lot of her races. I thought the Houston lady’s classic. Wasn’t all that great. I mean, she did come in, you know, she closed into a slow pace, but. Yeah, what she was one to nine or whatever. I was expecting her to win a little bit easier than she did. I’m hoping she takes a ton of money.

I think that, uh, I think, uh, late is, uh, is, is gonna lay over the field and, and most of the plays that I play I’ll be singling her. If midnight, BC water, Shamrock Rose one, I wouldn’t be like shocked, but I just feel like she’s the class in the field. Nancy, do you care to push back at all on the, on JKS, like confidence in another direction there.

Well, I already know how he feels about Shamrock Rose. So I’m not going to push back, um, in regards to eat late. Um, I’m very impressed with how well. She has performed off of the brake. So I’m not definitely not going to take that away from her. She was very impressive in the honeybee, but she came up against some really tough horses.

She was actually bothered at the break, uh, a couple of years ago in the honeybee. So she’s obviously matured, uh, since then runs very well. Uh, here at the surface. So she’s solid at the distance and the money three of four, and it is going to be a fast track that day she’s run well over what surface as you can see, but it is going to be fast and sunny.

Um, and they’re going to have this, uh, I think distract hyped and ready to go. Um, but, uh, Mike Smith knows this track, like the back of his hand, not that Jose Ortiz does it he’s run very, very well over the surface. Um, but this is Steve’s home. So I’m thinking that he’s, uh, Mikey’s going to have this one, uh, set in primed.

Ready for these airy, sorry. JC, let’s move on to the rebel. We have it in two divisions this year because of the unfortunate events in California. I think we’ll call this one, the improbable division. J K. Do you have the silver wig out of storage? Will you be bopping in dancing with improbable in division?

One of the rebel on Saturday? You got the silver wig was just in the dryer. I got it hanging up a little bit. I don’t want to ruin it. I really wish that game not to get ahead of ourselves. I wish game winter was, was the Baffert in this spot. Cause I want to try to be game winner with long range Tawny and probably the one I don’t want to try to beat.

I thought long range totties. Last two races were super impressive. Now I’m being down inside. Wasn’t exactly where you want it to be those last two days. But I think, I think it probable at this point, if someone actually tweeted us, like if I was forced. To put my entire net worth on one horse to win the Derby.

Like right now, who would I pick? And that would be improbable. I mean, I wouldn’t do that disappoint, but I just think it probably is the most likely winner of the Kentucky Derby. So to play against him in this spot. Uh, I think would be a little bit silly. I I’m going to pick probable. However, I think that there’s a lot of value if you, if you want to try to beat and problem with Lon long-range Tati.

And I also think long range, Todd is a great horse, uh, for, for Nancy’s example of the show parlay, which I participated in when I’ve been in Oaklawn with that bonus. So, uh, long range Tati is kind of my price horse. If you’re looking for that, uh, if you’re looking for the JK crushed their souls, pick three, pick four, I’d go with them.

Probable Nancy, how do you see it playing out? Okay. First of all, let me just say JK crush. Their soul just kills me. We should put that on a t-shirt really? Yeah. Right. Hashtag J K cars are sold. Um, I’m a little taken aback that there there’s a maiden in each division of the rebel. Let me just point that out first.

Um, yeah, improbable, just unbelievable. Like when I lived in Los Angeles, you know, The area where I live. You saw actors, you saw athletes yet big deal. When I went on the tech set and plane, and we did a Facebook live video for Oakland yesterday of the horses arriving, getting off the plane. And I actually snuck onto the, uh, van and got perfect headshots of improbable and game winner.

I felt like I was in the presence of greatness. Wow. So go on my social media and you can see these amazing horses, uh, improbable. Absolutely. The one to beat. Um, Baffert has already won six runnings of the rebel. He ran second last year. No presence of pleasure. This weekend in steaks at all. He brought into horses, but they’re in allowance company.

And by the way, the allowances on Saturday are a hundred thousand dollars. Um, improbable, certainly the one to be undefeated. Uh, I’m a little. I don’t want to say disappointed, but a little surprise that Rania is not on long range Tati. He’s riding. Keep this almost easy shot who is coming off a, a decent third effort getting away slow, just got edged out for third in the Bob Lewis.

Um, Long range. Toddy is kind of a head-scratcher for the barn. And when I talked to, uh, the connections at the barn, they’re kind of surprised by this horse, which is interesting because he just keeps showing up and they’ve had, you know, like banquets. W who we’ve seen, uh, in some of these preps, they really thought that bank, it was going to be, you know, kind of a superstar, but long range, toddy, an iron-on with you, Jonathan.

I love that horse. I used him in every single prep for the rebel and the Arkansas Derby. I love that horse. He just shows up and just delivers every single time. Uh, John court does get them out completely, uh, uh, sharp jockey. Third by two links in the Southwest. He was steadied at the quarter. Uh, and, but still just came running.

So I definitely give long range Tati, uh, and Everett, last time, asthma son, one a rebel was the, the banner year of Kerlin, uh, easy shot coming off that good third and the Bob Lewis extra hope, uh, ran third to improbable to back in that loss out futurity or super stellar work. Uh, From extra hope, blacked out Mike Smith, getting that rail post.

Um, but yeah, improbable, certainly we might see a Bob Baffert sweep in the rebels. So, uh, I definitely think that is, uh, a solid, solid possibility. Nancy. I know your office is right around the corner from the, from the racing office and the racing secretary, right. Actually in the middle of it. Yeah, we, we like to try to play the, the jockey musical chairs game sometimes from time to time on the show.

How much do you think that it’s a possibility that the, the John court Oromia situation with Longreach Tati had to do with the fact that these horses were entered into like a split division? So like maybe there was a commitment, weird thing where an ask me, son’s got what, like for running and both races or five, maybe in both races.

Do you think that that was involved in or do you know or think that it was a decision, a decision for them to take off? Well, interestingly enough, John court is often the first call rider for Willis Horton. So who is the owner of long range Tati? So I’m thinking that might’ve been one of the reasonings for the jockey change on long range, Ty.

That’s the only, just immediately coming to my mind. That’s the, uh, that might be the, the key reasoning for the sweater

just immediately off the top of my head. And I’m not sure if DeSorbo, uh, possibly I don’t, maybe they Herano, wasn’t able to make the trip, but, uh, And therefore Saturday we have a Rami of aboard. So, um, I’m not exactly. I was at the draw and I know, uh,  had to do some, there was quite a few, uh, doubles on the rebel, but, you know, because of the split, they had to do a, quite a bit of jockeying around no pun intended or pun, whatever.

Um, but they did have to, uh, do some switching around. I want to ask you another question, Nancy, before we move on to our conversation about the Essex and that has to do with, when you talked about being on that van and feeling like you were in the presence of greatness. I know sometimes people who know horseflesh, there’s almost like a sixth sense of the class of a horse when you’re around them.

In this instance. Was it something like that or whether, is there anything specific you were seeing in those two runners that really made you think they might be a cut above, you know, what being around horses like that they kind of give off a presence? Um, a couple of years ago, I remember. When closed hatches came in, she just exuded just strength and collapse, and I’m getting goosebumps right now, doc on it.

And they just literally the way they, they carry themselves and. It’s just, uh, uh, almost like a Regal feeling like they know that they are winners the other day when, uh, Mattola returned off of a break. He, you could tell when he went out onto the track, he had a certain. Way to his step when he was on the post break, like he was so happy to be back and it’s just the presence that they give off.

You can just feel it. And I don’t know if, I don’t know if any. Buddy. That’s just a novice can feel it, but I know that you, you guys can both sense it if you were, if you were there and it’s just the look in the eye and it’s the way that, you know, they’re, they’re dappled, um, their ears are perked forward.

Uh, it’s just that, that sense that you get, like I’m here and I’m going home. With a, with a blanket of flowers, people have asked me how to improve in terms of developing that knowledge, that, that sort of sixth sense that it seems, it feels to me like you’re talking about Nancy. The advice that I give them is make sure you go to the paddock, right?

For the stakes races, especially grade one stakes races. If you have the opportunity to be at a place like Saratoga or something, where you can get to the paddock for a multiple of those in a row, and the more time you spend around horses going out in the mornings, another way of doing it, but, but takes a bit longer, but I’m just trying to think for folks interested in developing that, that sense.

What other advice would you give to them? You know what I also mean because you know, Oakland. A little unique because for stakes races, they go to the indoor paddock and fans are unusually close to these horses and they’re kind of above the eye line, the line of sight to these horses. So if horses aren’t used to that, it can be a little intimidating, a little claustrophobic.

So. You know, the, I personally think the better horses they can handle anything. Um, you know, a lot of trainers will put, you know, cotton or, you know, sponges in their ears to kind of, you know, block out the sound. Um, and they do school, obviously, these horses. Um, so they will saddle in the. Indoor paddock and then parade to the infield where they will then meet their connections.

And then they will call riders up. Um, the really good horses, uh, you know, will act like there is not a thing that will bother them. Uh, and then they will proceed on to the track for post parade. Uh, You know, certain words is they’re just like people they’ve got their routine, some will break post parade and go on and maybe go with the pony or separate from the pony and get a good warmup.

Uh, you know, but it’s, it’s just the way, like I said, I think they carry themselves. Uh, if they’re just acting just. Who could do crazy. I personally don’t think that’s a really good sign if they’re washing out. If they are just dripping with sweat. I personally don’t want to see that if it’s the dock, if it’s a super hot day in the jockeys, having to, you know, uses whip to wipe off all the loans.

Either in a sweat, that’s probably not a good sign either. Um, I mean, it’s not supposed to be that on Saturday, but it doesn’t take, you know, 80 degree weather for a horse to wash out. Um, but a really good horse will maintain their composure regardless of the situation. Let’s talk about this Essex. It goes as race nine on Saturday, Nancy, how do you see it?

Oh, my goodness. This thing is wide open. You have got horses coming out of steaks coming out of allowances. Um, really interesting group, but a really, uh, cool horse that’s come in from, uh, Southern California is giant expectations. It’s been a while since he has, uh, made it to the winter circle. Uh, actually since, uh, early June of 17 at Belmont, when he won a New York.

Uh, bread allowance, but he has faced graded stakes runners basically since exiting at third in the grade to San Pasquale. And it was over the slot. He’s kind of in knocking at the door. He’s earned a little over three quarters of a million cents. But none of those when getting the picture taken, uh, Peter Irwin sends him out, Joel Rosario comes into ride.

So we certainly does get the class relief. He’s very lightly tested at the distance. So with that class relief, it could potentially get him his first wind picture. Um, an interesting runner also from the DIA Doro barn. One of our leading trainers, uh, exits a, uh, 11th, however, uh, He came up against a really tough group in that grade three Razorback when racing off a bit of a break, a really tough field in that grade three Razorback, the winner of that, they was cold front, who won from the 14 posts.

Definitely got to give him a shout out here. Uh, he was kinda laying mid-pack and just, it was a how recharged, uh, in that stretch. So this one is really wide open, I think. So not really sure how to make this one out here. Of course it does like this track for, uh, Keith DeSorbo returns. So I really haven’t broken this one down yet.

So I’m still undecided. Let’s say folks can follow Nancy for further thoughts on this one. As we get closer to the race, JK, do you have any more clarity when it comes to this one? Not really. And this is a tough race. I agree with Nancy when it comes to giant expectations, obviously running behind battle of midway and McKinsey, who would both be odds on in this race?

Um, I think giant expectations has kinda made you run up above his head because he’s shown greatness at times. And so they’ve, they probably put him into some spots he might have not really been able to win. I think these grade two grade three listed stakes are the stakes that are gonna really hit him right in between the eyes.

I think he should be tough here. But I keep kind of my eyes, keep going back to the black and gold of Calumet farm. And I really think one of those two horses are going to run well. The Kentz is kind of sneaky off the layoff, um, has obviously, is always been a horse that has garnered a lot of attention has run well, but I think sauna tear his last race against cold front.

I liked him in that spot coming in off the brake, you know, and now he’s gonna eat in a second off of a break. He got checked in that race. Uh, lost a little bit of space and in cold front ran a hole in the wind. I think sauna, tears, probably my pick here, the sneaky one that, uh, that I’ll be using if I was playing in a contest or something like that.

But as far as multi race plays a little bit of hints, a little bit of sauna tear, a whole lot of giant expectations based on the fact that I think he’ll take a lot of money. And snapper Sinclair is another one. Uh, if you’ve got the budget, maybe you want to toss in and include, he should be an okay. Price.

Sounds like a spread race for everybody. Let’s move on to race 10. It’s the rebel, the game winner division JK. We’ll keep it with you.

This is the, this is the race where I do want to try to game winner, but I don’t know who to try to beat him with. Uh, I. I, yes, I’m going to try to beat him with Omaha beach. Who, who embarrassed me. When I tried to throw him out of a mandatory pick six payout, it’s in a needle, um, on February 2nd at a mandatory pick six, and I thought he was a turd force.

Uh, and he’s not a terror force. Um, I remember at some point he had some 80 minus works, uh, out there in California. So to try to beat game winner, uh, it, to a certain extent, not a complete toss of game winner, um, but, uh, but try to beat game and I’m going to use a little Omaha beach. I’ve already kind of expressed my, my, my dislike for gunmetal gray.

I think that he got the setup and the sham on that one day, and then my sneaky kind of long shot. Uh, you know, allowance horse coming into the, to the, to the spotlight is captain Von Trapp. I think he could be a little bit sneaky, should be an okay price. We’ll see what happens. But to me it feels like it’s going to be one of these California horses, uh, that are gonna, they’re gonna fly into hot Springs and take home the trophy.

Nancy, we’ll get a quick thought from you on division two of the rebel, and we’ll let you get on with your day. I’m sorry. We’ve kept you longer than we said we would, but that’s the price you pay for being so darn entertaining. Yeah, this is a total waste of my time. Yeah. Yeah. A game winner is definitely the true standout in here of undefeated loves the distance.

Obviously has had some really impressive works coming into this race. Uh, shouldn’t bother him coming off the, off the brake, the, the two-year-old champ looking. To, uh, stay undefeated as he makes this three-year-old debut. And he did already, uh, beat gunmetal gray, uh, two back in the American Pharaoh. So I think it’s just going to be what your plays are underneath.

And, uh, yeah, captain Von Trapp has been extremely impressive, uh, thus far in his career and he loves Oaklawn. Uh, jive did see that last work for Omaha beach and, uh, laughing Fox. And self has been really, really impressive, uh, here as well, loves Oakland loves the distance and, uh, I think it’s going to be, uh, Bob Baffert data loop.

Sounds great, Nancy, thank you so much for your time. That’s going to do it for this edition of the, in the money players podcast. I want to thank J K we’ll. Thank Nancy. One more time. Most of all, we want to thank all of you for listening. Your support means everything to us. A reminder that this addition to the show has been brought to you by black type thoroughbreds, to find more information about how you can get involved in horse ownership, checkout black type

This has been a production of the, in the money media network. I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. Want to remind folks that drew Kourtney is the business manager for in the money media. One more. Thank you to our friends at the thoroughbred retirement foundation and 10 strike racing. Marshall Graham, especially for coming on the show today, we will be back next week, week.

May you win all your photos.

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  • When can we expect Marshall’s course available to the rest of the world?
    Seriously, I’d probably pay money to get the course on video on some widely available outlet/web site etc. Even though I’ve always considered myself born without a math gene baseball and horse racing have sharpened my skills over the many years I’ve followed those sports.

    Unrelated: get Dawn Lupul and Jeff Bratt from Woodbine on the podcast.

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