Show 48: Weekend recap and BEL Thursday (Pat Stich)

It’s a surprise false intro from JK. . . before the ITM gang gets down to the business of reviewing last weekend (19:20) and previewing the first day of the Belmont Stakes Racing Festival, this Thursday (39:40). PTF interviews Pat Stich, winner of Monmouth’s Pick Your Prize Contest (55:10).

 

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***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

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Hello, and welcome to the end. I’m just kidding. This is Jonathan Pete’s back. I’ll let him take care of this. I don’t want to steal this. I’m not going to Wally PIPP. Oh my God. I had no idea what you were doing there for a second. I got a little nervous. Let’s take that from the top.

Your listening to the, in the money players podcast.

Hello, welcome to the end, the money players podcast. I’ve lost track of the number of shows, but I can tell you this folks it’s Belmont week long awaited right now, as we speak, it’s early in the morning on June 5th, Wednesday, and we’ve got a great week of shows happening for you on the, in the money network.

Starting with this one where we’re going to be looking back a little bit at last weekend, and we’re going to look ahead to Thursday, specifically of Belmont week. We’ve got a loaded. Card for the steaks festival. I’ve really impressed with the racing Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. We’re going to get to that in a bit.

We’re going to start off by chatting a little bit generally, and we’re going to start with a thank you is how we’re going to start with the man that I usually introduce at this stage. He sorta jumped the gun there, but that’s okay. Uh, but people’s champion from the planet, Texas, Jonathan Kenshin great job.

I was really impressed with your hosting ability. I thought, uh, you got very close to my level on the two handicapping shows the two and the money shows, and I thought you were better than me, honestly, sitting in the big chair for the breeding show. So good job all around. How fun was that grew up CP.

It was fun. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s something that you’ve always kind of pushed me to try to do. And I’ve always been like, no, I I’m just, I prefer not prefer not, but my, um, My exploits with this Fox sports and Niara stuff has kind of forced me into some uncomfortable things. I mean, I’ve done, I did my first jockey interview, uh, two weeks ago at lunch star.

And then this weekend, last weekend at Churchill, I did jockey interviews, trainer interviews, and I just starting to get a little bit more comfortable with, with, uh, kind of directing the ship and being alone. And, you know, I, I’m so much more con you know, conversational when I do these types of things that when they thrust me in the stand there by yourself thing, uh, it’s kind of forced me to, to, to develop some different skills.

And so I thought why, uh, Why not attack it with you being out of town and hosting other shows last week. Right? Appreciate it very much. And it’s something I want to try to foist it on you too much, but it might be good practice at some point to lead some segments or go out and grab some interviews with as much as you’re going to be on the racetrack, especially at Churchill downs coming up in the near future.

And then a little bit later this summer. For Saratoga as part of that Fox coverage, I had only a few comments. There were a few things that if you con incorrect things I wanted to, to just, uh, talk about for a minute, you said on the show that T loves a fight was named after Theresa. That is not correct.

It was a sort of a coincidence that she was going through a cancer battle. At the same time that horse was doing his best work. She developed an emotional connection was invited to the winter circle. Definitely felt like part of the team, but it was not like a straight up name after. So I wanted to get that little bit in there.

Um, sure enough, there was, you made a comment and then you sort of backpedal. That was something that I was just like, as soon as you said, I was so ready to give you a hard time, but then you kind of backpedaled immediately. So this won’t have that much sting, but I thought it was weird that you were worried about post position for the Belmont.

I was going to say that for me, of any race in America where post position does not matter, it would be a short field, Belmont stakes. But do you disagree with that or agree with that? Um, no, I don’t think it, I think it matters less than the other two, but you know, I’m a big believer in the post positions influence on the jockeys aggressiveness or lack thereof.

Right. So, um, for instance, I think that it is significant that Tacitus drew the outside. I think that him drawing the nine hole for the Belmont stakes on Saturday is going to get Jose to ride him. Like, I hope that he would, which is a little bit more forward. I don’t think he wants to get stuck in no man’s land.

And end up being four wide because he didn’t just take a little bit more of an aggressive approach to get into the two path or, or even, even on the lead. I mean, I th I don’t think he’ll end up there, but I’ve seen crazier things happen. So, um, no, it doesn’t. Matter, it matters least of the three triple crown races, but I think that it could still have an influence on the outcome of the race point about the internal pace matchups.

And that leads me to another point, not a correction, just something that I thought was really cool. Well, we’re doing thank you as we should. Thank all the guests who came on, everybody did a wonderful job. I think that was very smart of you to go with people you were so comfortable with and mapper near and Nick tomorrow, uh, on the, in the money shows.

And I thought both made just really good observations, both talking about the process. And I especially enjoyed the pace conversation that you and Nick had about what I would call racing flow type issues. And you mentioned that thing about watching a race and noting. Which horses were in front at the pace call and then where they were at the end.

And the only thing I wanted to add to that was, I think that’s something really smart to put in your notes, not necessarily in every race, but in the extreme scenarios. For example, when those horses that were one, two, three, all end up in the back of the pack, I’d like to know that. And there’s a lot of different ways in your trip notes.

You can, you can indicate that a race was a, was a collapse or a meltdown or whatever you want to call it, or, you know, speeds finished way back. You can, you can write whatever you want, but I think it’s a good thing to know most of the time, just like you guys said, the pace numbers are going to tell you the story, but there are instances where they won’t and it’s kind of nice to know those extreme scenarios, whether it’s that or the exact opposite, where the one, two, three at the pace call or one, two, three at the end, the so-called a merry-go-round or whatever you want to call it.

Those are also really nice to know because when you see that and you see. The pace figure strong very, very often. I’d say that’s indicative of a biased racetrack. Anyway, just a little something I wanted to add on to that. I’m not all the way through. I’ll have to admit I’m not all the way through the breeding show yet.

I’m to the, about the mid point of the Gary Fenton interview, but terrific job on there. Yes. I was very upset that you had price Belle on without me, I felt very left out, but then I realized that guy’s got so much to talk about. We’ll be able to have him on soon, and I can probe him a little bit more about some of the things that I want to hear him talk about.

And I also wanted to thank him for dropping in that incredibly kind offer to us. And I think by extension to the listeners, to be able to go and check out what’s going on over there at mill Ridge, it’s a beautiful operation and definitely a little piece of racing history as are so many of the farms that horse country give our listeners and racing fans in general access to so.

And before we go on just one more mistake that you made, you did not give props to the great DJ unstable who made all of the magic happen in terms of getting those blog posts up, getting things actually posted. He did a great job. I loved his voiceover work. He did leave an unexplainable ten second gap at some point in the breeding show, but Hey, we’re not all perfect.

Oh yeah. And I didn’t communicate right. That we were supposed to have the Jonathan Richmond song at the end of the Niara Betts show and not ACE freely twice, but these are very minor things. It was great work. We appreciate him very much. And I appreciate you. JK look, I’ve missed, I’ve missed the DJ on stage, but we haven’t, we haven’t spent a lot of time with him as of late.

So it was nice to get him back in the mix. Uh, You know, there’s been use, you know, DJ on stable, used to text me four times a week. And so now we’re back in action. Yeah, he’s got a cool new gig and I hoping to be able to work with him at some point in this new capacity at the New York road runners club. I love the idea of getting involved in it in a training video.

They follow you around racetracks with cameras. Maybe they’ll follow me around prospect park training for a half marathon at some point or something. We’ll see. We’ll see how that goes. I wasn’t quite in training enough to do it when he asked me the last time. Speaking of following us around with cameras, Pete, I think we’ve talked about it a little bit.

We are really close to locking up a date with, with ABR, with their wired videos that I did at the Derby. And the whole idea for the show is I think it’s gonna be very fun is they’re going to follow you. And I both around. Uh, it’s going to be like a day at Saratoga. So we’ll go out in the morning. We’ll hang out on the backside.

We’ll see some trainers, some jockey, some horses working, we’ll feed some carrots, then we’ll go home. We’ll get the kids together. We’ll we’ll maybe some donuts, maybe some outdoor shower. We can explain how we get ready to be on the track and the outdoors we’ll show it. We’ll show the boozy milkshakes. So the panic bar and then, uh, and then, uh, hopefully we’ll have some success.

And so it should be a fun show if we can, if we can pull it off, I like it. Maybe we’ll get a little, uh, seminar action in there. We’ll see plans are still in flux for that. But while we’re talking about upcoming things, we should do a little housekeeping. I’ve got a piece coming up for@theracist.com previewing, the Belmont stakes in depth.

We just posted Bennie South Street’s trip notes for the Belmont, along with the story of why his voice sounds so funny. That’s up on in the money podcast.com. Now John Kamado is going to be around this week. He’s got a couple of pieces, I believe coming up based on some of the computer modeling and statistical analysis that he does.

You can find all that stuff as it’s posted on in the money podcast.com our show schedule pretty simple eventually on this show pretty soon, actually, we’re going to get to looking at the Thursday late, pick five later in the show, we’re going to have Pat stitch who won the Monmouth contest on that was a fun chat that I had yesterday.

We’ll append that to the end of this file. Then the Niara show is going to look at the late pick five tomorrow. That’s going to be pretty darn straightforward. I think I’m going to put an interview on the end of that one with the great Southside, Johnny. Now you always joke about how Steve Beck and I, you don’t know anything of the music we talked to cause it’s people with real names, Southside, Johnny, that’s kind of not a real name.

So have you heard of him? Uh, South side Chicago, are you from Chicago? No, no, no, no. New Jersey, baby, New Jersey all the way. This guy is a great, he’s a soul singer. He’s a rock and roller and he’s playing in concert after the races on Friday. So yeah, that makes perfect sense. We’re going to put him on the Friday show because of that.

Chatting with him tomorrow morning. That’ll go live. If you’re going to Belmont, if you have an opportunity, even if it’s just to stick around for a few songs before you have to go make your dinner plans or whatever, checkout Southside, Johnny great live act. I’ve been seeing him for many years. I have some personal stories.

I’ll save about South side for when we have that interview on and last, but certainly not least we have the main. In the money late week show coming up in that one, J K and I will be discussing the graded stakes at Belmont on Saturday. We’re also going to hear from our partners, Woodbine and Monmouth about exciting stuff that they have going on this weekend.

There’s just, there’s a lot of cool stuff. I know one thing you’re excited about JK is this free contest online. Absolutely. Um, it’s a thoroughbred idea foundation, uh, has a Belmont day challenge and we’ll be tweeting it and I’m sure you’ll be able to find it on their Twitter. You can also go to their website racing, think tank.com, but essentially it is a prop style bet competition where there’s like, I think there’s maybe 21 of them, maybe 20 questions or 20 props.

And the winner will, will have a thousand dollar donation. Uh, on their behalf to any racing related charity that, that qualifies a five Oh one C3, uh, second place, 500 bucks, third place, 250 bucks. I love these prop things. I think there’s so much fun. And it’s a great example of how many more creative wagering platforms that we can invite into our game that will be more inviting for other people.

And so a very simple, usually 50 50 prompts where they might not be 50 50 at least, but I’m designed to be somewhere near that. So I’m excited to play in it. I haven’t even signed up to click. Okay. Yeah. But I haven’t pulled up in front of me and I’m going to do so, uh, very shortly, but that’s going to be a lot of fun if you’re.

If you’re, uh, if you’re listening to the show, make sure you get involved and be a real quick little jump through. And if you don’t have time and treat it, if we have time on the Saturday show and the way the calendar, the clock I should say is looking right now, we might not have time, but if we have time, maybe we’ll even go over our picks on the show.

If nothing else, we will plug it again. While we’re doing plugs the, in the money podcast. T-shirt JK, we got to let people know where they can find that that is, uh, the company we’ve partnered with is where I’m from, which is a they’re. They’ve got some cool Baker Mayfield shirts too. So, um, I, I don’t have the link stuff in front of you, Pete, do you have any it’s it’s just where I’m from.com and our promo code is pick five.

Did you see Baker at the Derby? You said I did see Baker at the Derby. Yeah. We actually have a weird connection. Um, my high school history teacher who was also a football coach, who I eventually worked side-by-side with when I was a coach. His son is a, is a young man by the name of Davis Webb. Our New York fans will be familiar to played for the giants and for the jets.

He was at tech when Baker was at tech and Baker, and then Patrick Holmes was there as well. So tech had three NFL quarterbacks on the same roster at one point. Um, anyways, so, so I related to Baker when it came to Davis, because they obviously knew it. And that’s where, of course we got the deal with wire I’m from, is your connection to Baker Mayfield?

No, it’s not folks. That’s, couldn’t be less true. Um, I love it. When you talk about high school coaches or pro coaches and the whole idea of a coaching tree, unfortunately because of your career choices, JK, the Jonathan Kenshin coaching tree has no limbs. It doesn’t, we, we just, we switched it over to a handicapping church and I’ll tell you what we do have some limbs on that one.

What’s the latest from your friend. You got all excited about bet and the Derby this year is he he’s five weeks into his handicapping career. Has he gone broke yet? No, he’s rolling. He thought he actually texted me that I’ve been really busy the last two week, probably week or so, just traveling and the Fox shows and back and forth.

And, um, he texted me the other day and said he, he had like, he went like nine for nine and had the heads or something, something along those lines, man, after your own heart. I’m on a seven day head-to-head winning streak. We’re going to get him on at some point. I love this idea of talking to some newer players and also hopefully providing some educational material.

Now, speaking of educational material, this is a, I’m say I’m speaking out of turn here. I don’t know if it’s actually going to happen, but we’re talking about possibly finding sponsorship. I don’t even think you know this yet. JK to do a special podcast, possibly webinar, possibly regular podcast, possibly monster podcast geared toward the American audience for Royal Ascott.

That would come out next week. Hopefully previewing all five days. Anyway, we can’t say too much about it now, but I think it could be a lot of fun. Now that’s one. I can certainly do solo, but I think it might be kind of fun to have you on there. JK peppering our experts with questions about the Royal ASCA meeting.

Are you planning on playing this year? Absolutely. I actually actually just actually set you up a little bit. I don’t even tell you that I was at, uh, at Jeff Ruby’s with, with the Prince of kilos, uh, last weekend, I guess it was Saturday night. And I don’t know if you saw the tweet, but we, we made a tweet kind of teasing them about not having TBG.

I don’t understand how that happens. Um, but one of the things that we did is two tables over. There was a Wesley ward was sitting there and Jake knew some of the other guys who were sitting at the table. So we went over to say, hello. And I was trying to get out of Wesley, which two year olds were running at which races, but I didn’t have a lot of time, but I did tell her and that I’m sure he was going to run into my buddy Peter Thomas form itself.

There’s a lot of. Does a lot of Ascott stuff. And, and that, uh, that he probably be, uh, catching up soon. And he was, he was more than willing to contribute to conversations as they pertain to a Royal Alaska. I am going to be following him around worse than you following Michelle, you around back in the day.

That’s how bad that’s going to be. Very funny, very funny, seriously. That is going to be a lot of fun going to be part of the sky sports racing coverage. That’s not the coverage that will be beamed back to the USA, but I have a feeling they’re going to have me dealing with all things, a American. And obviously that will mean a lot of Wesley ward chatter, maybe a little WinStar chatter.

Uh, our man price bell told me he’s going to be over, should be a great opportunity to hang out with, uh, fans and friends. And I highly recommend listeners pay attention this year, because again, talking completely out of school. So don’t tell anybody this, but I’m working behind the scenes to see if maybe we can’t get a 20, 20 Royal Ascot betting challenge.

And I think it’ll help players who might think about playing in that in 2020 to have a little bit of experience, at least studying the forum, handicapping some of the races in 2019. So you can get a jump potentially on that. Life experience, if you will, by following along with our Royal Ascot coverage next week, I’m really looking forward to it.

All right. I think we’ve covered most of what we need to cover before we get into the racing. So let’s look back before we look forward and just very quickly, obviously I was otherwise occupied. I was laughing every time you talked about me with a glass of wine. Cause it was, I resemble that remark.

That’s for sure. Lots of great eating and drinking. I was following along a little bit on Twitter with the racist, but I don’t really know what I missed from last weekend. JK, what were the headlines as far as you’re concerned? Well, I think the, the biggest race, um, um, that, that we saw was the three-year-old Pennine Ridge, uh, which has a prep for the turf Trinity, I believe.

Right? So it’s the Belmont Derby. And then the other two races that are going to be doing for three-year-old boys on the grass at Niara this summer. This is the prep before that. Um, and I think it’s probably significant because also tomorrow on Thursday, one of the things we’re going to see as the female version of this race, where newspaper of record is one to five in the wonder, again, in a very small field.

So, um, I’m excited about the series that they’re going to have in, in New York. And so, uh, the pine Ridge has already obviously a prep for the Belmont Derby and, and there was two CHADS, there was two Todds, there was a mot and ask you some and a maker. Um, and I thought every horse in the race had a small chance.

At least I thought it was a very hard race to the handicap seismic wave. Got bet. Um, bet. Pretty significantly you down to like seven to two, I remember the morning line was, but it wasn’t seven to two. I think he might’ve been like eight to one or something. And at some point he was almost a favorite late money came.

Um, the Marshall  was, was very impressive podcast winner, right? Didn’t didn’t at least one of you give that one out at five till one day. Uh, you know, I, I think I kind of danced around a lot of them and I think I ultimately gave Henley’s joy. Okay. Um, but maybe who, I guess maybe it was, I had Matt talked about both of them did Matt and Nick both talked about it.

I don’t remember who they picked here. Um, it was a good race though. I mean, I, you know, I think all, I would say all four of the top, the all four horses, um, DiMasi a seismic wave, social paranoia, and Henleys, joy are all horses that I wouldn’t argue with someone if they wanted to bet going a mile and a quarter, uh, in July and the Belmont, uh, Derby.

So, um, definitely a fun race. A hard race to handicap, but a race I think could set us up well for the rest of you, 89 buyer speed figure earned by the Marshall. Yay. In the pin nine Ridge. What else did you see of interest over the weekend? I was curious, I saw that the con cup winner L torment, uh, had a strong figure up at Woodbine, a 98 buyer speed figure.

Wasn’t sure what you thought of that one going forward, or if you paid much attention to what was happening North of the border this weekend, but of course you should, since Woodbine are important partner, right? No, I, I, uh, I did notice that and that’s a, that’s a very fast buyer speed figure for, for, for, uh, you know, for, for Woodbine.

It doesn’t th those, you don’t typically see these hundreds and hundreds and fours and fives. And, and so when you see a big number, I think it’s definitely something to pay attention to. Um, I spent a lot of time, obviously at Churchill on Friday and on Sunday. So that kind of caught my attention. Um, I thought that look, it’s a very insignificant, uh, allowance winner, but a, a filly that I thought, uh, was impressive by the name of, with dignity, that one for Ian Wilkes.

Um, I just get just a good handicapping lesson to be, to be told there. That’s why I’m mentioning it, mentioning it, but she won on debut for Ian Wilkes who was a 5% dirt sprint debut trainer. She won on, on debut, very impressively and then came back, stretched out. And it was just one of those deals kind of like the old school buff Bradley thing.

When it came to, uh, Divisadero four years ago, go go millennials sometimes of, of, of where we’re at currently, but just that idea of like, and I think, and I actually think that, um, Matt Bernier did the same, same angle with Gormley when he went on debut for John sheriffs. Um, I think that there there’s a hint when a horse can run through a trainer’s poor debut stats, there there’s some talent there.

And that horse one gave Julien leparoux is 900 win at Churchill downs. So it was fun to interview him after the race, but I thought she was impressive. I think she, she could be heard from later in the year, she’s a half-ton McCracken who was obviously a talented horse, his own right home bred horse. So, uh, I was impressed with, with her performance.

She went pretty impressively, uh, at Churchill on Sunday word about Penn national. Before we move forward, moon colony won the Penn mile with a 90 buyer speed figure. Regal glory wins the pen Oaks. That one comes back pretty light with just an 84. Did you see anything in either of those two races that, uh, made you excited about potential future bets?

Not necessarily. Um, you know, it’s, it’s it’s I don’t know. I’m not blaming anyone, but it’s slightly unfortunate that virtually the same, same race is being run in the same day and the same region. Um, it, it would be kind of cool if all of those horses were running together and one race, but I guess we’ll see them next time.

Naturally. I think some of them we’ll see in the, in the Belmont Derby together, the biggest takeaway that I’ll give you from the pin mile is 40 under w what happened to him. He was a horse that I thought was then to win the Breeder’s cup, juvenile turf, and, uh, ran well enough that day, but didn’t get the job done.

Um, and now he shows up and he’s, he, he can’t seem to find the winner circle and he was last there. So obviously there’s a, might be an issue with him, but be curious to see what happens with him moving forward. Um, I thought he was one that made a little bit of sense. I bet real news in the race, uh, and watched it on our phone from Jeff Ruby.

So I, uh, I thought real news had a shot and he looked like he was going to open up. At the top of the moon colony and Casa creed kind of ran over him late. It’s hard. I mean, we know how it is with horses, the old, the, the, the old expression about the horses being like strawberries, they go bad overnight. I mean, there’s just so many physical things that can happen that are gonna take a formerly promising prospect and make them somebody who needs hopefully time off so they can get back to their form.

But obviously as we see all the time, sometimes that the form just never comes back and the promise just never gets fulfilled. I mean, it’s really no different than any other sport in that regard, when you look at the litany of first round draft picks, who either had a brief moment in the sun before flaming out, or just never really develop racing, you know, their horses are athletes.

And I think they’re subject to a lot of the same vagaries. Wouldn’t you say? No, absolutely. I mean, I think that’s one of the things that, um, I think we typically see it more with, it feels like we see it more with Phillies. Um, you know, they, they, they seem to be a little bit more, uh, I don’t want to say temperamental, but, um, when they’re done, when they’re done, they’re done.

When they, when they’ve had enough of, of, of being a race horse, they typically don’t, um, don’t hold any punches. Yeah. It’s an interesting thing. I’d love to see the data on it. I’ve always felt that way. And that could be a little bit tilted by the fact that there’s so much more career opportunities in terms of the breeding shed for Billy’s.

You don’t need to be nearly as good to be able to move on. So maybe some of it is a human intervention angle where okay. You know, maybe it’s time for this one to get to breeding. Whereas obviously there, there are many more brood mares than there are sires, but I’d love to see the data on it. Cause I have the same exact sense as you, but it just also does seem like one of those old, uh, sort of sayings that may or may not be true when you look into the data, you know, It makes a lot of sense.

Yeah. All right. Let’s talk about the races on Thursday. It’s not part of the Nire bets late pick five, but we’re going to talk about the wonder again, anyway. Sure does. Look checking this one out. Like this one is newspaper of records there for the taking. We talk a lot about Chad Brown and say how his horses don’t really need races in the traditional sense, but it sure did seem like he felt.

And I felt like these quotes were genuine and not just trainer excuse, making that. He just left her a little short before the last one. She showed some signs of coming off a lay off and just makes absolute sense. She’d be tighter and do her thing here on Thursday. Will you be wagering in the race? What would be an acceptable price for you to wager on newspaper of record?

If so, yeah. I’m not going to better, um, like sh you know, to win or anything like that. But I think that if you want to, you know, she’s obviously going to be the most singled horse. And the entire weekend when it comes to an early oral late pick five, so that you could probably try to build around her in that, in that regard.

But, um, you know, I, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t go four by four by four by single by four. I mean, I, I wouldn’t do things like that. I was trying to be, try to be pretty aggressive in your other ones for a real opportunity to make money. You know, I’m excited to see her run again. I’m obviously a fan of the horse.

I think she’s, she’s shown some brilliance. I’m a little bit concerned that, um, let me back up, I’ll tell you what I’m concerned about in a second. I agree with you. I think she was written confidently last time. I think that she was probably trained confidently last time, and I think that they didn’t get what they needed to get out of her to have her to win that race.

Um, um, unfortunately I’m a little bit concerned with a mile and a quarter is the next target with her being a layover in this field with her having a pace advantage in this field. I don’t think that they’re going to get to the bottom of the fact that I believe she just needs to be written a little bit more aggressively.

She’s very, very tactical. And I think that fighting her in the early part of the race is just not going to work open up by four. If you have to open up by six, he’s a classy Phili that will finish on her own. She doesn’t necessarily need to look another horse in the eye. And, and I think that the example that I’ve given when it comes to the Edgewood is if yes, she opened by three and a half, but what if she would have opened by six?

Yes. Maybe she still gets run down. But I do think that Julian left ruined concrete Rose would have been forced to make a decision earlier or later you increase the chances that Julian makes a mistake moving too early or waiting too long. Um, and so I just don’t think we’re going to see that of her in this mile and eight race cause she doesn’t necessarily need to do so.

It doesn’t see on paper and, and like Craig Burnett mentioned the, we, we talked about previously from an ownership standpoint, From a trainer standpoint, this is not the goal. The goal is obviously to win the Belmont Oaks at a mile and a quarter and getting her to relax would be beneficial for them. So we’ll see what happens.

I mean, I’m pretty sure she’s gonna win. Um, but, uh, I’d be very nervous singling her in this spot just based on the dynamics. So just to sort of sum that up, cause you covered a lot of ground there to maximize her chance of winning an individual race. You’d want to see them ride much more aggressively than they have even just give her head and let her do her thing and buy.

But you believe that with this mile and a quarter target down the line, they’re going to be more passive. There’s going to be more fighting her if she’s so free again early. And therefore you think that could leave her vulnerable to an upset. And with that point made, who would the upset or be? I mean, I think Columbia park makes sense.

It’s Chad Brown. It’s New York. It’s turf. She was entered against newspaper of record in that race was beaten six, but was, but was undefeated on turf prior to that, she makes a lot of sense, but she’s gonna probably be over bet too. Like I said, it to me, it’s a single newspaper of record thing or move on.

Um, I just think that newspaper of record reminds me and I don’t know why this is the horse. I always resolved. I mean, I always mentioned, but it’s the game on dude thing. I just you’re taking away her best weapon by using her early ability to bottom other horses out and the class that she has, she’ll still finish.

Um, you know, I, it’s almost like to me, it’s like putting Tom Brady in the shot gun and trying to run zone, read schemes with him. It is, it doesn’t mean he’s not the best quarterback in the world, but jeepers creepers, you can’t ask him to do something. He can’t that you’re taking away his, his best attribute, which is throwing the football.

Uh, the opposite would be putting Michael Vick under center every time and telling them to drop back and play action. It doesn’t, you’re not, you’re not using their weapon. And I think her weapon is speed and class, and I would let him go to rock and roll horsemen. And we talked about this with Craig Berneke, as you said, they much prefer the ability to relax and finish, especially on the grass.

I mean, I think that’s the real difference between game on dude and one like newspaper of record. I think he believes he can have his cake and eat it too, and have her run that much faster, that much farther. We’re going to see, I know what you mean. We horse players, we get upset when their chance to win the race.

We bet them. They weren’t written exactly the way to maximize that, but the horseman has different goals. He doesn’t care as much about that race off the bench, or even this race as he does the race two or three down the road or the breeders’ cup or whatever that target is. It is something to keep in mind, but.

Anyway, we’re not giving you a whole lot in terms of beating newspaper of record. I’m probably just going to wait and see, uh, how the early pick five shakes out and maybe just have her be a linchpin, but I agree with you in, I wouldn’t make it. I’m not going to have put so much into this sequence singling that I have, uh, you know, that I’m starting from a deficit, it’d be more an amount of money that I could shrug off very easily if I lose, because.

You just don’t know when they come back, you can make these excuses, but we’re just going to know so much more after this race goes at 4:07 PM on Thursday, should point out late post at Belmont on Thursday as well. First race, I think goes at three o’clock. This one is the third goes as four Oh seven and we just spent an awful lot of time talking about a one to five shot, but it’s interesting.

Okay. And you can watch all of, uh, you can watch all these races on, uh, on America’s day at the races where your boy will be, uh, will be on. So you’ll be a Churchill and Churchill, but yeah, I think from the show run, I saw, I believe don’t quote me or you can quote me, but just don’t hold me to it. I believe that like every race from Belmont and every race from Churchill is going to be on that broadcast.

So, wow. So join us over there. That’s good. That’s very cool. And I love you, you with the media terms when we were doing the show a year ago, which is still very much alive, by the way, things work really slow in horse racing in case you haven’t figured that out yet, but you love the production terms. I could just hear the glee in your voice.

When you got to say show run, just then look, I just, I ordered, I ordered a custom fit IFB yesterday. Did they do the mold in your ear? They did the whole thing. Yeah, well, I did it. It’s like a kit. They send it to you and you don’t put here’s the things like the one I had a couple of days ago kept popping out.

There’s nothing more annoying than that thing popping out of here for those that for the uninitiated, the IFB is the way that the studio talks to you. You can hear them chattering away in the truck and they’ll be like, Jonathan, you’re looking at the wrong camera again. J K a stopped saying, yeah, no, whatever the messages are that they want to pass along through the headset, they come in through the IFP.

I don’t know what it stands for. I’m embarrassed to say to you, uh, I wanna say it’s. Enter, I want to say it’s in or something or I don’t know. No, I don’t know. I’ll look it up. Some listener will tell us that or you can look it up and save us. All right. We have been going for a while and we got to get to these races on later in the car, Thursday, the nigh rabbits late pick five.

Of course, if you’re not already a Niara Betz member, you can use our promo code and get a special bonus. We’ve got two different promo codes this week. I think we’ve got money and we’ve got money 25. I don’t know which one is the best to use, but use one or the other and, uh, and help us out. That would really be a great way.

You could help the show by signing up for an IRA bets account and giving us credit. And I would say that the number one reason to have an IRA bets account is to be able to participate in these Niara Beth’s late pick fives. That’s why we do our Niara bet shows based around them. Since there’s so much action in New York this week, we’re going to do this year.

I don’t know if you’ve looked at Churchill already JK, and you want to give a spot player to, maybe we can do that at the end, but for the moment. We’re going to move along to race. Number five, we’ve got an interesting looking maiden race. I had a couple horses who were decent prices on the ma on the morning line.

You go first. Well, my hunch plays the five horse eager his name. Yeah, what’s the, what am I missing? You know, nothing John Snow. Ygritte yes, of course. Game that’s reference how many game of Thrones horses are we going to have over the, uh, over the next eight years or so? By the way. And then I heard, no, I heard on Jimmy Kimmel that Aria is a more popular name now than Brittany.

Um, you know, they’re glad they didn’t go with Denaris. Let’s put it that way anyway. Yeah, there is some interesting horses here. The one that I’m the most intrigued upon is keep me in the game. It’s a sugary gay horse. It has a half, two new money, honey, who is obviously the two year old juvenile fillies turf winner, uh, quality, quality turf.

Phil your mayor. I don’t know what she’s, what she has at this point, but keep me in the game ran. Well, last time was 61 at Keeneland. Um, there was a horse that wired the field that day. I believe it was a Brad Cox horse. Uh, I think it was the four horse that day. How about that? And, um, but you know, this Philly missed the break a little bit, was far back closing into slow fractions.

And I think that, you know, second offer for four shows on a big day or a big week. I think this horse is going to run big. There’s some other horses in here. The first reason, it couldn’t make a little bit of sense, but this is the one that I’m going to build a lot of, of what I’m doing around. Um, obviously the other Chad horse in here, the, uh, queen med B, um, she was bet that day as well.

She was chasing that loose winner and couldn’t get past her. I won’t hold that against her. She could obviously improve as well. So, um, those are the two that I really need. Um, if you, if I, if I try to like kind of nail this race, uh, but there’s obviously a lot of horses in here that they can, they can get it done, um, in a wide open race.

I did have keep me in the game on the shortlist. Of course, uh, ran very well in that race with little pace last time. And the, the note about the very good turf mayor, obviously very dangerous and square enough at seven to two for me in the morning line. But I was interested. Tell me what you think of this one in the one miss you blues.

I thought it was a pretty interesting improving type for Charlton Baker who did not have the easiest to trips. Last time I thought coming wide on a track where ground loss meant something adding the blinks, I was thinking might be able to get the lead in a race without much speed. So I was going to have a little bit of Misu blues mixed in with my, keep me in the game.

Do you see that one at all? Um, yes. My thought is how is Eric going to ride the horse, um, with blinkers in the rail aggressively? Well, I would think so. I would think so. Um, now it is a stretch from six to a mile. It is kind of that, that quasi one turn mile that they have at Belmont. And, you know, it’s almost a one-term mile, but not fully, but kind of one and a half.

Um, she was 22 to one on debut, which I don’t necessarily have a problem for with, because it’s Charlie Baker. And sometimes he can go ignored at times. He should never be ignored, but sometimes he can go ignored when, you know, especially on the turf for the first, you know, first time sir, forth. Um, yeah, I mean, look, the big drama thing is like, it’s not just not screaming.

Hey, I’m going to get better when I stretch out. But. Th th you know, it can definitely happen. It makes a lot of sense. It’s a definite use. Uh, she could run lash, she could run a, uh, a flat fifth, but she could also wire the field. So I pick up what you’re putting down price play. I mean, I’m, I, if you said who’s the most likely winner and depending on what the odds are, I’m very likely to have your top pick as my topic, but just another.

I wanted to make sure we mentioned let’s move on to race six J K, are you going to channel your inner, uh, Chuck grubs here and be a sadomasochist and go with pain? No, I am. I thought two horses were, were attractive, uh, Hirsch, um, for a Dermot magnet who ran some really, really impressive races last year as a three-year-old at Belmont and at Saratoga with fast figures.

Um, you’re not going to get that jump from three to four that I think you would from two to three, but I’m still interested in what this horse could be. I know that Durham has always been very high on the horse. Um, and so there’s obviously a, a, an opportunity to improve there. And then a real, as a horse to that was, was, was bet.

Um, a couple of times out at, uh, Del Marla as a two year old, um, face game winner a few times. And I think that he’s one that could improve as well based on the numbers that he ran as a, as a two year old, um, with a little bit of a progression there didn’t run probably what they were expecting him to run and what his price was when he showed up at Oaklawn and the slop.

But I can forgive that. Um, I can forgive that for sure. And it’s an interesting situation. It looks like they took the horse to Louisiana downs. Excuse me. They took him about, I’m sorry, that’s an, a back to low Sal. So they went back to low Sal and then brought him back to New York. And his last two weeks had been in New York.

So, um, Interesting, interesting horse with some really strong back numbers. I didn’t know what to make of Roy and Hersh is one I’m very interested in, more interested if the vibes are right in terms of either what we hear or what we see in the paddock. What we see on the toad definitely and include in the pick five.

Even if there’s not much money in the double to this one, I’m not getting beat by her. It’s just remembering how impressive that Saratoga race was. But I could definitely see pressing up if the Toten paddock signals get very strong. I am going to keep paying on the tickets. All kidding aside. I just thought the impre improved early speed impressed me last time, had the legitimate trouble in the lane and should sit a good trip.

I understand that we were dealing with a good rail that day, but I thought that, uh, he came off the good rail late. So I’m interested in giving pain. Another shot. Here’s what I’ll say about Hershey and Dermot Magner. And this is, and I do know Dermot perk personally, but I’m just saying in general, a guy like Dermot, a guy, you know, these guys that are just getting started, who have been in big operations, who are now on their own, trying to, you know, start their careers.

They can’t afford to give horses races, right? Like he can’t afford for his ownership group and for the public and for his percentage to show up on Belmont festival week with his best, one of his best horses in his barn and give him a race. He needs to win on days like this first percentage, he needs a win on days like this for his owners.

And he doesn’t win on on days like this for himself and for his, the perception of him to the public. So it’s different to me than if it’s a person like shad, you know, we’ll chat. Doesn’t really send them over there shortly. Well, uh, Christophe, Claremont, Jimmy Jerkins, like great horsemen who just sometimes are in positions where they need to run their horses.

They don’t have, they, they don’t necessarily have the advantage of a guy like Chad to just run them when they’re ready to win. Yeah, I agree. But I, that’s a good point. And I wasn’t saying that I’d get off the horse. If the vibes weren’t there. I mean, this is a horse who’s going to be included no matter what, but it just felt like one where if everything was right, if we really thought the horse maybe had made that leap from three to four cars times they do that, I’d want to lay in all the more, I don’t want to have this horse ended up going off somehow it’s six or eight to one and winning and somebody saying to me, Oh, you talked me off.

Cause you said it had to be bad. That’s not what I’m saying. It’s just a question of how aggressively I would use based on those based on those signals. All right. Let’s move on JK to race. Number seven, we’re into the stakes portion of the program. And I recognize that the Cassie’s might be too good here, but I want to use number six, sneaky surprise.

I thought ran. Really well, and sort of an unusual race where the break wasn’t very good, but made the lead anyway. And I just had the idea. What about a clean break here? Getting to the lead a little bit more easily and just staying there for connections who seem to do very well in these types of spots in, uh, in all types of spots, really in Todd Pletcher and John Velasquez.

Where’d you end up? I love twirling Owen. Um, big figure on debut at Laurel. Um, and most will say, well, dad, but then he ran really bad. Last time. I don’t really trust that figure. She ran really bad last time. I don’t trust. I figured, well, if you look at the horses that were behind her, uh, lady George, and then the horse drawn to her inside punk rock princess, they matched their figure from that debut when they came back and their second star, um, lady George improved punk rock princess virtually matched.

Um, so for me, That number was real. And there was an excuse last time. Yes, it was, it wasn’t a four horse dual and it was wide and, and probably stopped, um, faster than the other speed horses. But I’m going to give her another shot. I think she’ll be, I think she’s eight to one on the morning line. Uh, Todd and Wesley and, and Cassie, uh, the horses will obviously take money with wins, but.

Their figures just aren’t fast enough if she runs back to her Laurel debut. So I’m going to go with twirling. Oh, and in this spot, um, obviously the, the horses, I mentioned the Cassie’s and the, and the Todds and the, and the Wesley wards can be used as includes, but that’s the only one that I really want in this spot.

I’ll mention one more, very quickly. Number four, talk you out of it. I just liked that she has shown the ability to pass. Sometimes that’s thing I really like in these races was green that time, but might, I don’t know, I’m just sort of vibing might be the best closer in the spot. Those type of horses and Mike Maloney writes about this and bedding with an edge.

If you haven’t gotten your copy yet, what are you waiting for? I’ve got them for sale. Reach out to me on Twitter, hit me up through the end, the money podcast.com blog, but he talks about what a good bedding situation it can be for these type of horses in vertical keys. These two-year-olds when everybody has speed and there it’s all one, one, one throughout the PPS, and you can find that one who can pass horses and you key them.

Underneath a lot of times in verticals, they’re not necessarily going to be fastest enough, fast enough to catch the one. Who’s the speed of the speed and is the best, but they’ve got a better than you’d think chance to run in the lower rungs of the money hack. In this instance, in this field, I’d use talk you out of it a little bit on top too, but just one other.

I wanted to mention very quickly in the Historia before we move on to the Intercontinental, which is a grade three, seven, furlongs on the turf. And I’m very curious to hear what you think. I, I just don’t trust significant form at this point in her run JK, where are you going to go? I don’t trust her either.

Um, you know, most of her big races, at least as of late have come going significantly longer. Um, and this is not one of Chad’s strong points, right? Of Chad’s like, he’s, he’s good at everything, but he was not good at something. I think people would say that maybe TURPs one is like his weakness or maybe it’s his.

It’s his biggest weakness, because I think people would assume that he would still be good at it because it has been as turf acumen as it, as it, as it were. So, I mean, I feel like I’ve talked about significant form a lot. Hey flow. It is a, is a half that ran it at lone star a week ago. He was stretching out.

So I used significant forums example and then hate Dakota, I think is like entered this weekend somewhere else too. So some half’s a significant forum. So I feel like I’ve been talking about it. Uh, look, the license fee, I think as a, is a race that you have to look at to consider six for a long prep for this, right.

Um, there’s three horses to the outside that ran in at fire key Broadway run fear, no evil. I, I, I guess fire key is the one that esteem’s the most attractive, just because it’s my pick. Yeah, but here’s, my problem is I’m not crazy about the sixth seventh stretch for speed horses. It just, the, the numbers don’t signal, you know, suggest that it’s as, uh, as you might think it would be in and maybe fire key ends up on the front.

But I, I have a feeling that Broadway run will turn the tables this time. Second off of a break. Um, missed the break a little bit. Last time I wouldn’t call the last pace. Quick Broadway run was, was, you know, in between horses and closing into that. I, I thought Broadway run ran really well. I’ll use fire key as well, just in case she gets loose, but Broadway run will be my top pick.

And then the other two Chad’s zones, uh, and Stella D Camelot, I thought, or the ones that, that, that made a little bit of sense just because, uh, they they’ve had some big numbers in the past. Um, zones. That was bet pretty heavily, um, at, at keen Lynn. And, and so I think that there was obviously some buzz around her and maybe they just felt like she needed to come back a little bit in distance.

So those are the other two that I’ll be using as well. I’m going to try to beat significant them. I, I just don’t, uh, I don’t buy it that she, uh, she wants to go this short we’re in agreement there. This was a rare case where I just like shook my head. I didn’t understand the time form U S paced projector so much.

I’d be really surprised if fire key isn’t on the lead after that successful strategy. Last time you make a fair point about the macro stats going from six to seven, but I get that, but races are all individual puzzles and the way this puzzle looks to me on paper, I just think fire key might have that tactical advantage.

So I’m going to land there. And I like the way our teas rides her as well. One other I’ll just mentioned very quickly is the seven Ravens lady subtle improvement. When you look at the internal fractions last time, wasn’t sure about the, uh, the trip and what kind of trips she was going to work out, but.

These connections at what should be a really good price if you’re spreading and trying to beat significant form. I wouldn’t mind having a couple of sevens on the ticket as well. And with that, we’re going to move on to the last race of this Nairobi. Let’s pick five. We are on the inner turf, going six for a longs for New York bread.

Maidens. Yeah. How are we getting paid here? Well, you got to help. How are we pronouncing the eight horse plebe plebe. That’s a good, that’s a good one. You, you should start working that word into conversation. You could, you, you could have some fun with plebe. What do we, what do we, how are you defining? It’s like the common, like the common people or the plebes.

It’s like a Rome ancient, ancient Rome, and they looked down their nose. It, they never used it in, in game of Thrones, but it’s sort of like another game of Thrones up. We can’t go too deep with the game of Thrones. I’ll tell you off air. I was going to make fun of you about your prediction for what happened with the iron throne, how it actually, they actually ended up putting it in the show to make fun of it, but they were making fun of the idea of the plebes.

Actually getting a say in what would happen to the noble peace. Um, I don’t know what you’re talking about. That makes sense. Um, this course is interesting because look, I think Saratoga’s one of the most complicated places and most difficult places to bet. I think it’s the most difficult place to win a race.

And I think that the market is because there’s so many eyes, the pools are so big. I think it’s a very, uh, you know, efficient compared to some other places. Plead was five to two and a two year old maiden race at Saratoga with I think, 11 horses in it. There was obviously some talent there. There was obviously some, some good vibes around the horse.

Now the horse comes back, you know, 300 days later after being gelded, um, and is back in protected. And for me, you know, with a horse like this, who, who has been off so long, this is the type of horse that you, you try to sneak into a maiden 50 and no one’s going to take him because they don’t know what’s wrong.

Um, I think that he’s could be sitting on a big race, uh first-time Gildan and, and maybe living up to the hype that, uh, that was expected of him back in August of 2018. Um, so I, I, uh, I think that he, you know, I think that that horses is, is one that I’m going to try to build things around. And then obviously, um, the, the horses that are our favorite on the morning line makes sense, depending on what your other opinions are in the sequence, if you need to be skinny here.

And I think there’s an opportunity to do so, if you need to spread, you can do that as well. I thought the nine made a little bit of sense for Charlie Baker. Um, key and DC, is that right? Yep. Key NBC. And it’s like an NBC play. Um, just, you know, good figures always seems to be finishing, um, and you know, makes sense to me.

Joel Rosario, take back, make one run. Um, Nick mentioned it on the show last week. He’s one of the best off the pace riders in the game. So a majority of my players and I go around the fact that I think plebe. Is sitting on a big race, but, uh, I think this is kind of a wide open race outside of that. You make a great case for plebe, especially at that 12 to one morning line.

Terrific notes about the old bedding pattern. And also the first time gelding, you talked about the horses at the top of the market of those daring. The sky’s definitely a must use for me looking at pace figures. I think we’ll be closer to the pace here. And improved a lot for turf. Sometimes those horses that improve so much for turf are really good value.

Second time on turf. People just sort of like expecting regression, but the regression isn’t going to come because they’re finally doing what they’re supposed to be doing. One other I’ll mention is wicked gin flow upgrade coming out of the last race. And I thought had a wire shot. I don’t love the company coupling with fortune smiles in that that’s going to hurt the price significantly potentially, but I’d probably go ahead and make the, the one entry my top pick sort of by default, except I really like your plebe case.

So I’m definitely going to be a changing, changing around what I do based on our conversation to have more plebe in there as well. Other thoughts? Yeah. I, I, you got a Freudian slip. Uh, you said wicked, Jen. And yes, that is true. Um, but it’s wicked grin. That’s me not being able to read my own notes. Should I go back and rerecord that?

Or should we just leave it in? I, where we were running late, let’s just leave it at all. Embarrassing. I think it’s a sign. I think it’s a sign and maybe we have some, some spies they might need to know that the world, the, the, the, the, uh, uh, the world agrees. We have a lot of spies, unfortunately, who listened to the show, but at least they download it.

And, you know, that helps, that helps us, uh, in various ways. So, so thank you, spies, even you, when I thank all the listeners at the end, I even mean to thank the spies. Anything else, JK, whether it’s at the, about this race, whether it’s about Belmont, whether it’s about the racing at Churchill on Thursday, before we move it along, no, it’s gonna be a fun weekend.

I’m looking forward to it. Like Pete mentioned earlier, we’ll have, uh, a show covering the late pick five on Friday, a show covering the stakes on Saturday. And, uh, show the, the, the in the ring pedigree podcast. We’re going to, I think we’ve got a guest on to talk a little bit about Galileo and the success that he’s had, maybe an update on some previous Belmont winners that, uh, that he might have access to.

And then also, uh, Jacob West, who is a blood stock agent, um, that, uh, was involved in the purchase of Intrepid heart, who will be running in the Belmont, also bred Serengeti emperor. So it should be a lot of fun if you want to get involved in that side of, of the, uh, of the game. Very cool. All right. We’ll talk more about all that stuff, but now we got to bring in this week’s special guest, and now I’d like to welcome to the, in the money podcast, the pick your prize winner for 2019, Pat stitch, Pat, how are you today?

I’m pretty good. How are you doing things are excellent. So I’ll start off by asking you where you fit in with the mob of HorsePlayers from Chicago. I know there’s a bunch of, you’ve had a lot of success and tournaments. Do you know those other guys? Do you hang out together? Oh yeah. I, uh, I don’t know if I can hang with them in terms of handicapping, but, uh, yeah, I hang with them at the concept.

That’s for sure. Which, I mean, there’s not really factions. They’re not like warring or anything, but I know there’s a couple of different groups who are, who are your guys and gals? Yeah. Well, my father was my brother. Um, so I’m always with him everywhere, frankly. Sorry, Justin Gertz. Keeba Jim Bennis. Uh, my dad plays in a lot of these to my stitch, so.

You know, we try to do what we can, but these guys are big guns, so, Oh, that’s great. I’ve seen you hanging out, firing away in the green room at Caitlin, but I have a feeling you might have a favorite, a new favorite racetrack, and it might just be Monmouth park after the events of this weekend. Tell me how it all went down.

Uh, give me the lowdown on the contest from Saturday. Yeah, so I went out there last year. Um, kinda tasted the top of the leader, uh, midway through the day and, uh, fell off towards the end. I’m usually either all in or towards the top guy. So, uh, so off there yet last year, figuring out have a comeback this year with my brother.

Um, just kinda got rolling early with, uh, exact, uh, at Gulf stream. And then, uh, that got me up to the leaderboard pretty early in the day. Um, Stalled a little bit throughout the day was pretty much has been the minimum and the hit, the, hit the mandatories at Monmouth. And then, uh, at the end of the day, I made a couple big moves.

Tell me about what the decisive one was. If you think back to what the critical moment in the contest was, how would you describe it? Yeah, so the, you know, last year, the last race of the contest was, um, uh, his last day of going upstream. And this year they changed it to the 11th at Gulf stream. So, uh, I needed a little bit of ground and, uh, decided to phone a lifeline in with, uh, the King of golf stream himself.

Frankly, he has been known to tab the occasional, you know, 90 to one key horse there for what I understand exactly. I figured out a phone in front on that one. So he told me that, uh, you know, he thought the three was the most logical winner and. Uh, he was sitting pretty chilly on the board, nine to five morning lines, six to one going into the day.

Um, I figured I had to take a shot, so I put 600 to one on that horse and then bet a couple of hundred and exact as, uh, it turns out he went off at three to one because I’m sure someone out there hammered him too. Still sounds like ran like an overlay. And at the end of the day, that’s all that, that’s all that matters, especially, it’s one thing that’s great about contests, right?

When you make that play as a cash wager, even if you win, you kind of lose because you’re not getting anywhere near the equity, you thought, but when your goal is to get your total higher than everybody else in that room, it doesn’t matter nearly as much. Obviously you don’t get quite as much back in terms of your bankroll, but you’ve got to feel strategically.

Like you’re still very much in the right place and it must have felt pretty special to see your name on top of that. Pick your prize leaderboard. Yeah, absolutely. And then, so after the $600 to win on that horse that got me up back into fourth place, I saw, I was only about $800 out of it. And I had about three minutes over at that Monmouth.

Um, so took a quick look at the board. See if I could just fire on some of the small to get me up there, but not take me out of position and, uh, played a $200 straight exact, uh, two, five there to pay 13 for two. And that, that, that right now I’ve seen you in a bunch of contests. Is this your biggest win?

What have you been your biggest claims to fame to date in the contest world? Yeah, this is definitely, this has got to be my biggest one so far I’m in, I’ve cashed twice the NHC, um, which is great. And, you know, I won the smaller Keelan contest earlier this year, but this one felt good. That’s terrific. What you end up walking away with?

I think in total, um, about 45,000. That’s phenomenal. Is there any temptation in a contest like this? So many people win prizes? I mean, I always say if your goal is to get to the NHC, this would be one that I would circle every year. Cause you can get, basically I was exaggerating before in saying double your bankroll, but you know, double it a little more your bank roll and get an NHC seat.

Was there any temptation at any time to kind of lay up a little bit knowing the prize pool ran so deep? Or were you always about going after the win? Yeah, you know, I definitely, as I struggled to say in, towards the end of the day, I definitely considered, um, you know, not betting myself out of, at least in HCC.

Um, it was in the back of my mind, but you know, once I had talked to, uh, once I talked to my brother, I talked to Frank and I figured I had to take a shot and see what I could do. I didn’t really want to go below 2,500, um, and maybe still had the NHC, but at the end of the day, aren’t playing to win. That’s great.

And when you did give us a little bit of history about how you got into racing in the first place. Yeah. So, um, you know, I first kind of remember growing up at, uh, at Arlington park, uh, truck side, it was sort of turning the end into the OTP then. And, um, you know, my parents met at the Chicago trench Maywood Arlington, so I kind of grew up there and it’s always been in my family, um, just kinda from there.

And then my dad started playing, I saw my dad playing Tonto houses as I got older. I said, Hey, I figured I’d take a shot at this, but, uh, Didn’t have much success until recent years, but it’s always been fun. Anything changed that’s led to this run of success. I mean, those are two pretty significant wins that almost must have you thinking a little bit in NHC tour terms just to get wins in fields, the size of the ones you beat at Keeneland and at mamma.

So it’s sort of a double question. Has anything changed in your game that’s led to the success and is the tour in your mind now at all? Yeah, I mean, in terms of the success, I would definitely say, uh, the aggressive betting, as soon as I am more taking a stand in my opinion and say for the shot rather than kind of grinding it out all day and meeting the mandatories and from, but, uh, in terms of the tumor, you know, it’s still always way I don’t really play.

I’m not as much into that weekly online contest. So we’ll kind of just regroup at the end of the summer and maybe see where I’m at. Well, Dave  showed us. Speaking of Chicago guys showed us last year that you can sort of do the minimum online if you have enough of those in-person wins. So it’ll certainly be interesting.

It’s probably the old story that you hear them all say you don’t choose the tour. The tour chooses you another outright win in a big event that you happen to be playing in live. You might have to start thinking about playing online, even though obviously there’s not nearly as much equity normally, but I think that dynamic changes a little when the tour money comes into play.

Absolutely. And you know, one of my good friends went to her also Kevin Willett that the exact same students to ESL, um, I plan on playing Santa Anita in a couple of weeks. I played Del Mar at the end of the summer. And, uh, we’ll see where we’re at. Then. It’s never been easier with all these ways to play online in these contests online in OnTrack contest.

I should specify what I mean, you don’t necessarily have to go to Santa Anita to play in Santa Anita. So it is, it’s very, very interesting. I’m going to be curious to follow that story as it develops now, how old are you and what do you do? Yeah, so I’m 26 and I’m a real estate broker in Chicago. I’ve been doing this for about five years and, uh, you know, it’s great.

I would’ve thought I seen you at the NHC five years ago. You were like 21. Uh, I was pretty young. Matt Bernier was on horseplayer show and qualified as a youngest. I’m sure it wasn’t far behind. That’s so cool. It’s always good to talk to these guys in their twenties. So I imagine you and Justin  have had some interesting conversations about tournaments given that you’re both so young, both in your mid and early twenties, respectively or mid, I guess he’s like 24 now you’re 26.

And you both have dads who play. Is there any kind of special bond there? Oh, definitely man. You know, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s always fun with Justin going back and forth. Um, Do you know, who are the young guns can perform in the, and it’s a fun little competition. I think he had the belt for a while that great run on the, the world HorsePlayers tours show, but you know, you’ve got it now.

You, well, I can’t wait to see him counter punch this song. No for that. And, uh, you know, once I was out, I was going up and supporting them. Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. And that’s one of the really fun things about this, and I’m sure you, it sounds like you had that exact experience in return with people who were giving you advice.

And it’s one of the great things about tournaments. There’s a lot of sort of lone Wolf HorsePlayers out there. We did an interview the other week with Barry meadow when he described his approach to horseplaying and how lone Wolf it was, and that works for him. But if you’re somebody out there who’s interested in making more connections and getting a little more into the social aspect of horse racing tournaments, certainly seem a pretty good way to provide that outlet.

And it seems like something you’ve enjoyed as well. Yeah, to me that that’s half the fun of planning is going out there. I went to boys and, you know, trying to take a crack at it and seeing what happens, but just going out there, you know, going out after the contest. Good time. Where, what do you use data wise?

Yeah, so I’m a sort of graph player mainly. And, um, you know, just so I use the form of marking up with sorrow and kind of go from there. Yeah. To a very successful model for a lot of different tournament players. I’ve seen that a lot. Are you interested in third graphs in terms of looking for patterns, the way that a lot of players are, or are you just looking at them as a nother performance figure or a better performance figure potentially to augment the work that you’re already doing?

Yeah, I would say, uh, not pattern based as much more performance figure. Um, And just kind of comparing it to the buyers and going from there and see how it comes in. Taking a little look at trip notes too, and, uh, kind of putting it all together that way. It all came together last weekend at Monmouth big win for Pat stitch in the Monmouth.

Pick your prize. Last question for you. You sorta previewed this a little, but a little more of an overview of your contest plans for the summer. I’m into this idea of you making a tour run. Now I’m starting to get a little bit more into it too, as I think about it. I’ll, uh, I’ve definitely been pulling out the point.

Calculator can provide, but, uh, yeah, Santa Anita appointed in a few weeks, the closing weekend contest, uh, Delmarva, just to go see, you know, once you get into those, those bigger contests, I’m still in a lot of my league, but, uh, you know, I go out there and have a good time. Maybe I’ve been lucky. The, and then definitely all the Hawthorne contest, you know, if you can place higher top five and one of those.

That knows it gets you a ton of points. So I’ll be playing in all of those for sure. Great. That’s another good point about the mom at the contest is you have an opportunity to play for big money and it doesn’t cost an arm and a leg $2,000. Buy-in is it? Yeah, so  surprises and they play everything out. Do they run a bird contest?

Brian does a great job. We’re going to actually talk to him in one of the shows later in the week to get an overview of the whole contest, but I really wanted to have you on, you know, I’ve been seeing you around for years and we, this is the longest conversation we ever had. So I wanted to do that anyway, and it’s always great to get a story of another young player using contests as a way to get into horseplaying at a high level.

So thank you so much for your time today, and we wish you Godspeed on your tour hut. That’s going to do it for this edition of the end, the money players, podcasts, going to do a quick, thank you to everybody who helped out last week to starting with DJ on stable. Of course, U J K also Matt Bernier, Nick tomorrow, Sean, to Google Gary Fenton and price bell made my life so much easier.

Really got to appreciate a very special week because of the help that you all provided. And I really do appreciate it. Want to thank sponsors, our latest sponsor stats, race lens. They have presented the handicap portion of this show today and want to remind folks that you can use the promo code stats ITM for a significant discount on any of their unlimited plans.

So that’s, they have a monthly and they have a, do they have a weekly, do you know this. I think they have a weekly, I know they have a monthly for sure. And here’s the thing. If you’re going to play with it, I would not steer you in the wrong direction, sponsorship or no sponsorship. If you’re going to play with it, you want to do it kind of, you want to, you can’t just do it one weekend, one card, because the, you got to like, you know, take the time to put in some things that you find are interesting and really be able to apply it and use it.

And, um, and so if, just take the, take the leap of faith. On the, on the month, that way you can actually run around with it and really, really kind of play with it. There you go. You get that discount on the monthly. And then when you upgrade from your monthly to your annual, you get the discount as well.

Stats, ITM. Most of all, I want to thank all of you. The listeners you’ve made this triple crown season, so successful for us, and we really appreciate that very much. And keep coming back. We’ll keep, hopefully given winners and talking nonsense and making fun of each other and having a good old time left and right final thanks to our other partners, thoroughbred retirement foundation, and 10 strike racing.

We appreciate all that you do as well. That’s it? This show has been a production of in the money media, in the money media media’s business managers, drew Kourtney I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. May you win all your photos.

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