Sean Tugel of Winstar (seen above, enjoying the Baltimore weather on Preakness Day) joined JK and I today to talk about everything going on down on the farm. Plus, hear why Nick Foles of the Philadelphia Eagles is like a salty gelding.
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***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***[00:00:00] Your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the, in the money. Yes. The, in the money players podcast, this is show number six. It is Friday, January 11th, 2019. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a towel back with you in the Brooklyn bunker. Once again, we have a great. Show lined up for you today.
But before I introduce the guests and get to that, I just have to say a lot of you out there probably realize that I did say the wrong name of the show. Last time I was kind of surprised that only about half a dozen people. Um, pointed that out to me. I thought you guys liked me more than that. And more people would have said, Hey, Pete, you may want to remember that you’re not [00:01:00] affiliated with those old letters anymore.
You’re the, in the money players podcast, Eric, Bilich the first one to point it out. A few other messages came in. I will surely make that mistake again. Now, granted, I had a lot better excuse making that mistake when we were doing a live show. So with the editing, it’s really like. Double my bed, but Hey, these things happen.
I’m now going to bring in the regular co-host of this program. He is on the planet, Texas, but I don’t believe he’s in any of his usual locations. I think he’s pulled over on the side of a highway somewhere. If I understood that correctly, I’m talking about the people’s champion. Jonathan kitchen, JK.
What’s up on PTF? No, I’m I’m at home. I, uh, I am, um, I’m heading over to Houston, the Prince of keen lens, having like a, a shower of some sorts of couple of shower. I’m going by myself. But, uh, I’ll, you know, I I’m going to be his date, even though he’s the one who’s, we’ll figure it out. [00:02:00] So I’m heading over to Houston today.
How about this? Isn’t it kind of a little bit your bad too. I mean, I’m here, I’m recording. I’m trying to put the run of the show together. I’m doing all this stuff. When I say the wrong name of the show at the beginning, can’t you help a brother out. Pizza. I got bad news for you. I guess it’s a good time to tell you.
I don’t normally listen to you unless I have to. I think that’s true. You did that. There was also an occasion on the show. Last time. I almost made fun of you where you repeated verbatim. Like a little point I had just made, I think it was about your friend trophy, chasers time form us figure and using almost the same words than it is sometimes.
Almost like you don’t listen, but that’s okay. You listen when it counts. I do my best. And we’re going to bring in returning to the show, one of our most popular guests that we’ve ever had on the old show. And hopefully we’re going to have just as much success on the new show, given out winners, talking about the interesting place that is the intersection of the breeding business [00:03:00] and the bedding business from Windstar.
Sean Tougaloo. Sean, how are you today? I’m doing quite well, Pete, and thank you for having me back on, uh, regardless of the letters that you use. So, uh, I appreciate it. And as always, it’s always. Quite enjoyable to have a good conversation with you and, and talk to you. And, and, um, obviously don’t, don’t worry about giving kitchen a little bit of ribbing.
He deserves it every once in a while, and I hope he does enjoy his couples shower that he’s going to, it sounds like it does sound like I can see, is there going to be tea and cucumber sandwiches? JK, you clearly don’t know the princess. Caitlin very well. There’s going to be wings and the football games going to be all.
It does sound like. J K though. I think what you need to do, though, if you come in, you need to, are, are you involved in any of the planning for it? Cause you could come in with, with one of those good games, kind of like what smelling, what kind of chocolate candy bar or something you could, you could bring something to the table there for [00:04:00] them.
I could do, I should do something I’ll I will do that. I have a three hour drive over to Houston. I’ll I’ll be sure to come up with some kind of a. Some kind of fun shower game. Oh my goodness. J K. You mentioned that the games are going to be on. We’re going to do a very quick diversion into the NFL, just because it seemed to me.
And I know Sean, as somebody who, uh, took us as a guest to the Windstar suite up in Cincinnati to watch a Bengals game that your NFL simpatico to. Is it just me or does the NFC chalk. Parlay seemed like an interesting wager this weekend. I think if you take both of these home favorites, you can get something on the order of about three to five on two teams that I just don’t really see losing in the Rams and the same JK.
What do you, what do you, you love the chalk? Like no one else. What do you think. No, I completely agree. I think the [00:05:00] Rams and the saints both coming in off of buys, I think those buys are a huge advantage. Um, when you’re in the playoffs are coming in off of a, by, uh, there’ll be arrested and prepared. I think both of them will win.
Um, and I actually think the favorites on the other side will probably win too. I’m not a big Colts fan. Uh, and I, and I’ve, I’ve obviously had a big thing against the chargers all year, uh, to Jake. Jake’s a little upset about that. The Prince of Kima needs a big charters guy. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I think all the favorites are going away, especially, especially the NFC.
Sean, I w I’ve never talked to you if you ever, uh, you know, when you’re out in Vegas, if you, if you wager on the NFL at all, do you look at it at, just as a fan or does bedding occasionally mainly as a, uh, as a fan? I I’m, I’m a very, as far as sports go, a very periphery, uh, fan. Um, so kind of know what’s going on.
Couldn’t tell you everybody who’s on the, on every team, but, um, Periphery kind of, you know, you catch the occasional [00:06:00] game. Don’t bet on it too often, maybe something during the super bowl. But I do have to say from the football I have seen, um, new Orleans does look like the team, I would think has the best chance of, uh, running the table, especially they get to play in the Superdome.
Um, do they get the home field advantage throughout? I that’s, I wasn’t quite sure, but yeah, they get, they get, they get it throughout. Yeah. So I think it will go through new Orleans. Um, Philadelphia. I mean, they got a quarterback, you know, When they, when they went and, you know, I mean, how do you get some of those salty, uh, geldings that show up a year in year out?
And they went when it matters. So they got Nick folds. So we won’t have a better moment on the show all year, then Sean, to go comparing Nick falls to a salty gelding,
skip over to AFC, which I know a little bit better because I am a, uh, painful, uh, bill fan. And, uh, new England has been quite dominant. And I, I, you know, [00:07:00] I just think you’re always going to have to dethrone new England no matter what, but you’re good stock, horse racing, gentlemen, in earnest. I have a list of many, many questions for you, Sean, but I know there’s one question about, uh, just about his favorite horse in training that J K is going to ask.
We’ll let him start with that. Where is the big horse? Yoshida when will we see him next? You know, Shida? He is, uh, at patient park. And he is on target for the Pegasus turf, which, uh, we think will be right up his alley. His first race back last year of 2018 was a great one. When, and so we’re bringing it back here in 2019, he’s a horse that’s going to, um, have a lot of options throughout the year.
He is, uh, uh, now five-year-old, it’s a grade one winner on both services. So, um, gives us a lot of options of horse. We’re really excited about. Uh, fantastic pedigree. He’s going to be a great styling prospect when he comes home to us. So, um, but he’s going to get [00:08:00] 2019 kick-started everything goes as planned, uh, on the Pegasus turf while we’re talking Pegasus, you guys have some other runners in there as well.
You mind giving us a little rundown, Sean, of, uh, who’s going to run where and what you think their prospects are at this time. Pegasus. They actually has possibility of being extremely busy, which is good. It’s always fun having runners on those, on those big days. And, uh, you know, package this day is, is this is year three and I think it’s fantastic.
You know, you have multiple large races. Cause I think that’s what, what, uh, the big days are all about is being able to showcase horses in each division and, uh, having a turf race, uh, you know, in America where turf racing is becoming a much more accepted, uh, division and much, a very exciting division. Um, having a race that is there’s almost equal, you know, I think the horses that will show up in the, in the Pegasus turf race, you would say are as exciting as the horses that are showing up in the dirt race in the hole.
So, um, [00:09:00] That those days are quite crucial for, for breeding, for racing, for, for everything. So, um, to be involved in those days is quite exciting, but, uh, audible has come out of his race. Well, he’s working steadily. The target for him would be the dirt race where, uh, he had an undefeated record there until he got beat a nostril in the, uh, in the last race.
And I don’t like making excuses for horses and it’s not my job to do that anyway. So, um, But, you know, the track was, was soupy and he had had to go wide and there was, you know, I think, you know, they’re not the layoff nice progression. And so he has every right to, to run back to form. And then a horse that we’ve always been extremely high on was lightly raced who’s by one of our premier stallions, uh, copper town by spice town.
He is going through Ron and the. Undercard on, hopefully in the Fred, I believe it’s the fed who birthed the mile race. So he’s, we have, um, ran last time out in square mile. Um, so I think that was just for short fit lifetime starting, [00:10:00] you know, had been off a long layoffs and just about ran a track record at Keeneland on first off the layoff and kinda missed the break a little bit.
And, and, uh, you know, maybe, maybe bounced a little bit out of that first run, but he’s gonna come back. He’s been breathing extremely well from what I can see down it. Um, I’ll beat you down. So, uh, those three are our very exciting horses that we get to have on Pegasus day. You mentioned that field for the Pegasus turf, to be perfectly honest with all the craziness going on in life.
I haven’t been following probably as closely as I should. Who else is expected to show up there to oppose the grade? Have, have you heard much, Jonathan? No, I actually haven’t heard a lot. I would imagine there’s gotta be something from, from overseas. Um, But I, I actually, haven’t heard very many at all, but we know what that’s kind of what’s happened with the Pegasus for whatever reason, I guess, maybe just because it’s new and it’s conception.
That’s like, it feels like you never really know who’s running in it until like the week or two before. I was caught out a little bit on UK TV last [00:11:00] night when I was being asked by Darryl Williams on sky racing, the new channel to preview the Pegasus. And I, you know, I know who the top two are in the market in that, in that big race.
And I, I kind of flubbed it from there and punted the question, which I always feel bad about doing w I do love the concept of the Pegasus turf, but I think, I hope they give that race time to grow. It’s such a tough time for the English and Irish train horses. They’re just not at a place in their cycle where I would imagine there’s going to be all that much awareness to be shipping over for the first year.
But I feel like if they promote this event, In the UK and in Ireland, there’s a chance that by year three, they’re coming up with some sort of special program to send over a couple of horses. It’s a lot of money. And I do think you could get that kind of participation. I’m just not sure if you’re going to get it right off the bat, but we’ll, [00:12:00] we’ll see what happens with that.
I will be over in the UK on TV. Doing those races on the new channel. I’m really excited about. That should be a very fun opportunity. Where should we go next, Sean, I want to ask you about one, one quick thing on, on that Pegasus turf though. And just sitting here thinking is, I know we focus so much on the, on the, um, On the, uh, the Ireland and England turf horses.
But, um, I believe there, you know, if you could think, you know, a lot of those, some of those horses would go over there to Hong Kong and Hong Kong, you know, for a $7 million race back to Gulf stream. And then you got another good guy. You got a nice, um, gap there that you can train up to the Dubai race. And there should be a nice little circuit where you think some of those top class turf horses, um, could start making that kind of a little winter program.
I was thinking about it. It hurt a horse earlier, and I hadn’t seen him on the work tab. And, uh, but what about bulletin [00:13:00] is, is he gonna be back for his three-year-old year or did he have a little setback? No, he, uh, it’s a, it’s a program that, that we, we implement quite a bit here is, um, you know, we, we like to focus on the spring and summer with the three-year-olds, especially with, uh, with the dirt horses, um, and you know, Bolton is a horse that we implemented as well as a horse called preamble.
He’s, uh, they’re both on the same program. They both had really good, uh, two year old form. They both ran twice. Uh, they’re both undefeated, but they’re both probably not to turn horses bulletin right now has, has, has been a turf horse. And, you know, as far as spots there on the winter time, there’s there’s few that kind of really, uh, You know, that are something that you have to have in a stallions.
Resume or, or that have to be running that by running there, you might compromise, you know, down the road, like the Woody Stevens horses, that, which is now a [00:14:00] great one, you know, the, the, uh, the Allen Jerkins, it’s seven for a long race for three-year-olds and then turf racing. I mean, now with the way Ascot falls, um, and, and really the emphasis on having runners there as well.
Um, that would be the primary target with Bolton. So he’s getting ready to sit back. I think within the next two weeks I saw him train here yesterday. He looks fantastic. He’s growing, he’s put weight and muscle on. Um, couldn’t be doing any better. You know, we kicked him out. He got 30 days in the paddock.
Um, he got the recharge, the batteries a little bit and, uh, hopefully we can, uh, have a lot of fun with him coming up. So. Very exciting. Very cool. Interesting. The way that ask it is now on the lips and the minds of so many in the USA breeding industry. Cool to know when you think about it, I mean, they’ve got, they’ve got national live coverage on NBC sports.
Five days, six days. We don’t, there’s not, we don’t have a horse, a horse meat in the U S that gets five days national coverage in the rail. So, um, [00:15:00] you know, that’s a, that’s a pretty, that’s a pretty big deal. So. Especially, I think when with, with the advance of turf race in America, you know, having that Mark, you know, uh, Yoshida only gotta be the length and a half over there.
Yes. Last year against the, you know, some of the best milers on turf over there. So, um, when you can put one in the stallion barn that, that one over there, Mark, he raised that everybody in the world paying attention to that’s a, that’s a pretty big deal too. Absolutely have to talk about the triple crown prospects this year.
Uh, not necessarily to win the entire triple crown, but horses on the triple crown trail. What kind of an update can you give us about these new three-year-olds? Um, well, we, uh, we have one, uh, probable one, the great one last time out. He just had his first work back, uh, after winning the race in Los Alamitos, he’s three, two and three.
He’s already broken the 99 to buy our speed secrets two year old. So, um, he’s out of, uh, an [00:16:00] APN demerit. So he should, uh, absolutely relish. He had a distance he’s doing well. Um, I haven’t heard what race they’re they’re discussing, but, um, No Santa Nita, Oaklawn something along those lines probably be earmarked.
And I believe they would plan on probably run them twice, leading up to the Derby. Uh, and the other horse that I have high hopes for that isn’t, doesn’t have quite the resume with a horse called global campaign that Stanley Huff hats. We own partnership with Sagamore racing. Um, he won, it was last weekend.
It was a horse that we bred. Uh, unfortunately we lost the mayor, but she wasn’t, she’s also out of an ATN D uh, Herself. And it was a Clayborne Brad mare, but, uh, so far this is their third horse to race. The other two are Sonic mule. Who’s a stakes winner and both yours, who’s a multiple grade one winner. So this is our third full or not, unfortunately her last, but he’s by Kerlin.
And, uh, he’s a horse that, um, you know, it was immature [00:17:00] at the sale and, um, So we stayed in with Sagamore and they’re great partners and Stanley Huff’s a fantastic trainer. And, uh, he won last week. Like it was pretty impressive. He got an eight, six buyer there. And I just thought, when, if you watch this replay and you watch them going around the turn of the years for prick to the sky going around there, and it was, he was just having fun.
So, uh, very excited, you know, that horse has just pure raw town. He’s a very exciting horse. You know, he got started a little late, but, uh, You don’t want to compare them to everybody, but I guess the Apollo curse is over as well. So maybe he’s a horse that we can have some fun with here coming up, Caitlin sales, just wrapping up.
Uh what’s what’s some of the fun stuff that happened for Windstar during the sale or, and, uh, what, you know, when the sales kind of starting to pick up this year, what are some of the, uh, you know, the younger sires you guys are excited about that are, that are starting to be well-received. Yeah, well, we bought, uh, we jumped in and bought, uh, [00:18:00] two very nice mayors at the sale.
Uh, I bought a quality road Philly that, uh, was great for places, very excited about her. And then I bought eight Stuart humor. Um, Philly, it was in full the quality road out of the, uh, Blackwood consignment. And, uh, they had, uh, quite the selection. Mr. Shield unfortunately passed away. They had, uh, first part of his dispersal and he had, uh, he had some very, very good breeding stock.
And, uh, we bought a young story to humor, Marin and distorted humor himself. It’s just, he’s a breed shaping. Uh, broodmare sire. So, uh, you can’t have enough young storage, humor, merits special ones that were great stakes, whereas it was run. So we jumped in there. Um, sail, I believe I haven’t read the full figures, but I think I saw a headline that it’s that record.
So one of many cells that have set records over the last 12 months. So sales Marine is quite strong and healthy and there’s a lot of action out there and saw a lot of faces and, you know, got to chat about horses. Um, We we’ve got four [00:19:00] horses this year that have first two year olds hitting the racetrack.
And, um, so you know, some people from Ocala start start, came up, look at some of the short Yealands here and start running them. And, you know, they’re starting to breathe a couple of there and starting to figure out what sales they’re going to start going through here the spring. And, uh, so you know, you start to pick the brain a little bit.
And, um, so I’ve heard some really good things about all four of ours. Um, Carpet DM has a $1.6 million to gold himself. He, uh, he was a grade one winning two-year-old grade one, winning three-year-old. Um, he’s remained at 25,000 throughout the first four years of his young career. And his yearlings were very, very nice at the, uh, at the sales.
So hearing good things about them. Um, he’s probably also a horse that you’re going to see more of his. Uh, two year olds probably being pointed, but the people who bought them at sales, the majority would be pointing them for the races. So either horse would be probably won’t really hear a whole lot about until, um, you know, [00:20:00] middle of the season people point pointing their nice stock to, to the premiere mates like Saratoga and, and, and Del Mar and Ellis park.
You know, they’re too racist. It’s really expanded over the years. Um, then we also have constitution who I’m hearing really good things out of Ocala him. And commissioner two horses that really like had multiple people come up to me and telling me how much they liked there. And they can’t wait to take them to the sales and make sure you come see them.
And so, so that’s really exciting, you know, constitution with us. Do a grade one winner by tap it out of a fantastic Stuart humor mayor, um, ran a one 11 buyer when he wanted to Dawn was undefeated when he, when he won the Florida Derby. Um, so he has every right to be an outstanding sire. Then commissioner was a home bred for us that, uh, was just an awesome fall.
Austin, the airline, uh, Had about the two year old, had the talent to win at Saratoga, to two-year-old and then being by APN D out of, uh, one of our blue hand mayors, um, [00:21:00] he went on, he only lost my darn nostril there in the, in the, in the Belmont phone, less, but came back and went to pinnacle special Hawthorne, gold cops, very prestigious races, and, uh, just an absolute, a specimen.
And, uh, the other horse we have is, is, is by more than right. Daredevil. He was an excellent two year old. Yeah. Champagne. Stakes with a one Oh seven buyer fashion and uncle Mo union racks and premiere stallions. So we’re very excited for him to ground 97 when he broke his maiden first out of the box, um, more than ready himself is one of the best tires we have here in America.
So, um, all four stallions have every right to be very successful horses. And we’re very excited for, for the year ahead of us with those four. That’s a great overview of what’s going on on the breeding side with Windstar, but I also want to ask you about WinStar stable mates and Windstar stablemates racing, Sean, what’s going on with that program.[00:22:00] Yeah. So it’s, uh, we we’ve had, um, a program called WinStar stablemates and it’s really been around since very early on. And Windstar Windstar itself came around in about 2001. And so everything really WinStar is kind of, you know, Going to a wave of expansion and change and, you know, trying to be out in the forefront of everything.
And so it was kind of started with a little fan fan group and it’s kind of expanded to where, you know, um, it’s a membership. Group and you can choose your levels. And, and we have events at the farm. We have events at Saratoga. We have events at church Hill, uh, 30. I know we do something on therapy. So kind of something where you can kind of be part of, um, Windstar, you know, not everybody can, can be involved at, at the top level of our game.
And it’s, it’s a lot of fun to be up there. I mean, that’s, that’s you get to win races and everything. So [00:23:00] what we’ve done is we’ve expanded that now into a racing syndicate partnership. And, uh, last year was our first year. I think we won five races when we want a stakes race, um, with a Philly called well humor.
Who’s have to great one horse and we have her two year old, uh, backend. This crew, but basically it’s a lease program. Uh, it’s, it’s made up of 15 Phillies and expanded from, we had 10 last year, we had 15, we have 15 this year. Uh, it’s a nice mix. You get, you get some very, you get older, at least that are, that are in training and going.
Uh, we have a four year old called the bounty joy who was with Rudolph Rosette. She’s two for three lifetime. The only horse that beat her was talking her to me when she ran first time out at fairgrounds. So that horse was great one place. So we’re very excited for this Philly. She, uh, she’s a beautiful filly by quality road.
Uh, She’s unbelievable, but, uh, we think she could be, you know, a great stakes level type Philly. Um, We got another five three-year-old fillies that are just turned three that are they’re [00:24:00] very close to running or had just one pioneer, the Nile that’s half to grade, one winner. She just won first time out for Steve ASMIS and a Philly called last dance was the half sister too, to spite her she’s she’s, uh, she’s probably about a month away.
She’s uh, the reports on her from Belmont, you know, Philly’s with, uh, Rudolph Rosette, Phillies with, uh, Todd Pletcher. So you, you know, by joining the wins, we’re doing open enrollment now till the end of the month. Um, and for $6,800, you get to buy a share. It’s made up of a hundred shares. It’s a, it’s a year lease affiliate to get based off of us for the year.
And, and we got this year, we got half sisters to improbable is going to be running in there. We hopefully have this there’s two, um, two arrest. We’ve got half sisters, a good Samaritan. Uh, we’ve got first folds out of greatest stakes when he merits the whole appraisal of the Bloodstock involved in this group of 15, Phillies is $2 million, $6,800.
You get to be part owner of this, these horses for a year. You get, um, you get. Well, if you’re at [00:25:00] the races, if you’re at Saratoga where a lot of these fillies, hopefully you’re going to be running later in the spring. If you’re there. And you’re part of this group, you get, you get seats that day, you get paddock passes.
We do events up there once a year during the sales at breakfast on the backside, go look at all the Phillies. Um, you know, and then there’s events, obviously during therapy and stuff. So it’s, it’s not only do you get to be part of like the ownership group of the Phillies, which have their own silks or Virgin of Windstar, silks, or black with this gold.
Goldstar. They’re fantastic. Um, but you got to be part owner of these affiliates and then you also get, uh, throughout the year, some good events to come down to Lac Kingston. If you’ve never been there, it’s a great little city, you know, Saratoga’s off fantastic. Um, you know, breeders, copters, there’s always some things going on.
So it’s part of, uh, you know, for, for a really small fee to be part of. Um, you know, the top level of the game and see exactly how it works. You know, some people might be thinking about doing this at a higher level. This is a great way to figure it out. You get to [00:26:00] see all the bills, you get to find out what’s going on, but you don’t have the huge financial risk.
So if it’s something that you might be interested in, Call us up and, and it’s, it’s something, you know, if you just try it out, I think we’re going to have a really big year. I love the fact that we have older affiliates and two year olds now last year were very two-year-old heavy. So, uh, there were some kind of quiet periods, but now that the staples gotten a little bit older and we’ve gone through, you know, the.
The hiccups and, and doing the program for the first year, uh, this year we’re pretty excited about, and, and the Bloodstock is it’s as good as you can find that anywhere. Sean, you said, you said 6,800, I’ve got 3,500. I need a horse. And even money shot, but I can bet this 3,500 on I’ll have the 7,000, then I’ll join stable mates.
Who are we betting on this weekend? Give us a winner somewhere. Oh, you’re putting me on the spot. Huh? This weekend, maybe something coming up. You’re you’re excited about. You got to remember the last time on this show. You gave out a, a nice price winner to [00:27:00] the listeners. There was a half-brother to Tapper it out there that I heard good things on and a French guy that trains at pace and park has the horse.
I can’t remember exactly what the horse’s name is, but it’s a spikes town. Three-year-old Colt out of appealing, Sophie. Okay. That should be enough to figure it out. JK probably Googling as we speak and might have the answer in a minute, but if not, you know, sometimes. I have the French guy on my stable watch when he runs, when I know about it, there’s another horse.
Um, just, you know, I don’t know how much of a price you’re getting on, but a horse that, um, I think could be prime for a big year. There is a horse we have called New York central, and he’s going to opening weekend of Oklahoma and he’s on target for, and he’s the horse to keep an eye on this year. I think he gets a chance to jump up and win a big one this year.
All right. Lots of good ideas there. JK April, perhaps you’ll be in on the Windstar at stablemates racing partnership. Uh, gentlemen, if you’re ready, I think we should move along [00:28:00] and talk about some stakes racing this weekend. How’s that sound to you? Let’s do it sounds good to me. All right, let’s move on to Gulf stream park.
We’re going to start off with the ninth race, the tropical turf. We’ve got heart to heart in here. The, the, the. One of my favorites, a horse we’ve been talking about, I think since the very first year of this podcast, one of the first shows ever, I think heart to heart was, uh, among the first five winners ever given out on the old show.
Um, is, I mean, looking at it quickly, he looks like he’s going to be awfully tough to down Sean, as our guest, I’m going to let you go. First is this a case of heart to heart or pass? Or is there something a little more interesting you’re seeing when you look down at these PPS? Well, I think it’s, it’s a, it’s a possible case of, uh, Of, you know, an older horse just happened, possibly lose a step or, or [00:29:00] maybe he just kind of went off for him there for a bit.
And Brian Lynch, who’s shooting the capable trainer. Now hasn’t gone in the right direction. I mean, it worked have is fantastic. So, um, it looks like he’s prime to, to see if, if field war, horse still has it, you know, he’s a 15 time winner. He loves, loves the distance. He loved golf stream. So I mean, if he’s the heart to heart that we know that can run those triple digit buyers and wire fields, which I think the golf course from the little bit I’ve been watching it here in the last week or so I think it’s pretty, pretty handy towards speed favoring.
Um, he’s obviously this. You might be the lone speed. Um, so if you get the nice, easy lead and he he’s the heart, the heart that we all know and love, I think he, he should go gate to wire, but, uh, for some reason, you know, that that ability has, has diminished a little bit. Uh, it leaves it open for, for some other horses, maybe, you know, Jose RTS and Christoph c’mon and horses stretching out going two turns.
So, [00:30:00] uh, that’s one that I find, uh, Little interesting. They’re talking about white flag as a possible alternative for Shawn too, though. Acknowledging the potential superiority of heart to heart who loves the course and might just have that pace advantage to J K. How do you see it? Heart to heart, obviously has the pace advantage and runs well on the court should be loose on the lead.
Uh, the horse that I’m going to try to mess around with a little bit is on the rail Vici, uh, for maker, you know, maker did this last year with hoagie stretching, hoagie out and winning the greatest stakes going two turns on the flat mile down there at Gulf stream. I love the fact that this horse is tactical.
We’ll obviously be able to get his position moving forward should save ground all the way around there. If heart to heart misses a step, this course is going to have a perfect trip and should be able to mow them down. Uh, if heart to heart is the real heart to heart, he’ll win by four. Those are the only two horses that I need.
So I feel [00:31:00] bad. We’ve gotten some great feedback from this listener survey. I’m going to keep it open for a couple more shows by the way. And if you haven’t filled it out yet, I implore you. Please do us a favor. If you like this show and you want to help us out, this is one of the things you can do to help us the most.
On average people are completing it in. Three minutes. And that’s with a lot of people writing long responses for the last question, which we appreciate, but you don’t even need to do. I think you could fly through in two minutes and answer this survey and help us out giving us the demographic info we need going forward.
That survey is pinned to my Twitter. You can also find it at. In the money podcast.com. But the reason I bring this up is because I would say by far the number one piece of feedback we’ve gotten in that freeform question at the bottom is wagering strategy. People want more on wagering strategy on these Friday shows.
And I apologize because I’m not [00:32:00] going to ask. Uh, J K or Sean about wagering strategy. Cause I didn’t prep them for it. Host, fail, hashtag host fail, but going forward, that’s the kind of thing I want to do more of in these Friday segments where we talk about, okay, so everybody thinks this four to five is live and then everybody has one alternative.
Well, how do you try to turn that opinion into money? And I would imagine the answer will involve creatively betting exotics, but again, not going to put feet to the fire JK, unless you have an idea right off the top of your head. Uh, in terms of how you might bet this creatively. No, exactly. Like you said, um, taking some time to, to spend more money on heart, to heart than you are going to spend on a horse like Vici or, or in Sean’s case, um, on, uh, on the Christophe horse white flag.
So it just depends exactly what you think about the other legs, but the basic idea is that you need to spend more money on the thing that you think is more likely to happen. In your, and generally not [00:33:00] necessarily, uh, holding your feet to the fire about this race, Sean, how do you approach it when there’s a big favorite, you know, his life, but you’re not willing to just single and commit to, is there a particular wagering strategy that you employ for the minimal better that I am.
Uh, and not doing it on a day in day out. I would probably in that situation, just pass and sit back and wait. Great answer really. And an underrated answer to one of the tools that we have in our toolbox, the ability to not bet every race. I’m glad you said that. And, and, and one of the reasons. For doing that is, is one of the worst I ever beat.
And it wasn’t a bad beat, but it was one of those where you thought a four to five could get, could not get beat was when, uh, Regal ransom. I can’t, I think it was the castle and he was like four or five. And I put, I put whatever I won that week on them. His way, his way wired the field. I think Regal ransom ran last and I said, never again, will I got a four to five [00:34:00] shot with everything in my pocket?
You touch that stove. It was hot. You don’t touch that stove again. Um, so one of the things about this particular week, I remember this from last year as a host, we talked about hashtag host fail some of my famous mispronunciations. There’s two pretty easy. Stakes to mispronounce this weekend. And this one, it’s not that the Marcia was river is hard in and of itself.
To pronounce, but the way that it gets abbreviated in some places where it’s just like the M R S H and that’s all they give you that there can be a momentary, a synaptic misfire, where I come out with something crazy. But, and there’s one when we get to California that I absolutely butchered last year, but let’s talk about this race that goes as race.
Number 11 at Gulf stream park. J K, where are you in here? No big favorite to lean on. No, I’m gonna, I’m gonna definitely want to take a look at the workout report on, uh, Lawson. What does that, [00:35:00] what are we doing here, Pete Lawson? I would say last seniority. I would, I’d go with the Italian lost seniority.
Okay. There you go French bread. You’re going to Italian bread. Well, I see the G in the end, you know, you lived up there in the Bronx. It gives you a little bit of a hint of how you’re supposed to lock the yard. There you go. There you go. I’m glad we have a linguistic expert on here. I can’t get away from my, my Bronx background.
Uh, not that I ever lived up there, but the family history, I want to go Italian art. So it’s lost in Yar. Is that where you’re going? JK. Well, I’m going to definitely take a look there 189 day layoff. I want to look at the workout report. The last three works were on the turf at, uh, at Palm Meadows. And so that, you know, w can get a little bit tricky.
We talk about it. When the happens on the dirt, when those turf forces are working on the dirt, it can be misleading. You’re going to know exactly how this one’s coming into the race by looking at the workout report there, uh, the DRF clocker [00:36:00] report would be a good place to start. I like to Todd horse, uh, down on the inside, obviously I’m going to pick another horse where I’m going to struggle to pronounce the name, just so that I can, uh, set Pete up.
So say something very mean about me, but I like the fact that this horse is tactical. The same idea. On the maker, horse and the steak earlier, he’s gonna save, she’s gonna save ground down inside. She’ll get a great trip from down in there. She’s tactical enough. As long as, you know, Javier should put her in there, ratios shouldn’t get shuffled back, should be able to save ground when they turn for home, she should have every chance.
Um, so it’s gotta be the one of the seven for me, uh, pending the workout report that the one obviously will probably present more value, uh, for and horses always get bet on the tertiary. I’m not going to overthink it. I’m just going to go Bella vase on the one. Sean, what do you think of this room? You’re hitting a little bit on what Jonathan was talking about was the workouts.
You know, she’s off a little bit of a lay off. I actually got SBTV is fantastic with these workouts. That’s something that I I’ll go and use that. And I, I believe I saw [00:37:00] in the news this week, that Xpress was, was embedding workout videos and. To their ADW platform, not to give you a plug, but that’s, I think that’s really fantastic.
We’re not with DRF anymore. We can plug it. We’re not with DRF anymore. We can plug anybody. So she has up on XP TV, which I think they do a great job. And because Stronick owns golf stream because they don’t say Anita because they own Palm Meadows. We get this, you know, if you use it and you enjoy it and it’s fantastic what they do, but they do a lot of these turf works at
So they got two works up for her. She looks like she’s traveling. Great. Plus in Yar, um, obviously the, the Philly on the rail there that you like, he has, you know, one of the best pedigrees that you’re going to find with the cloak there, but I think Lawson Yar, and this is an angle is. Just the class of the field, uh, allow these other affiliates are kind of, you know, jumping up integrated stakes.
This Philly’s slightly raised. [00:38:00] Several of her races last year were extremely impressive, um, and showed a lot of County talent. I mean the Belmont Oaks. It was one of the best three-year-old turf filly races. You can run it. I mean, that is a premier race. Um, and they’ve done a great job with that day with the Belmont Derby as well.
But her wonder again was, was quite impressive. The day she won at, um, at teen Linde. I mean, I’m sorry. She ran second King Lynn, but that race, that race was a statesman that’s. What’s fun about Kaitlin there in the spring is Twana was. Neil Drysdale Philly. She was awesome. Uh, this Philly was actually the, the talk of the, uh, the paddock last and Yara and then cool beans herself came back and I believe it’s great.
It’s takes place throughout the year. So, um, you know, I just think she’s her running lines, although she doesn’t have as many starts at several these others, she does have that, that proven, graded stakes ability, which some of these other Phillies, uh, although there, they do have some age advantage on her and toughness.
They just quite, you know, if they have jumped up into the greatest stakes level, they haven’t, [00:39:00] haven’t been able to get it done in this Phillies have proven great stakes Philly. You mentioned Laclos Sean. I don’t remember the exactly, but is that the family of winter memories and all those other, she was out of memories of silver, I think.
But is it closely related to that whole group and that the Philippines? Yeah. I mean, it’s, um, it’s obviously one of those, um, families there that, uh, Phillips family at Darby Dan has cultivated for, for many, many events. Generations and, um, but she was the coast after Philly. That that was obviously quite, quite talented.
Um, and it turned into a good room air, but yeah, winter memories was down there on the second day. I remembered the silver is the dam of Lukla. Oh, okay. There you go. They are connected. Yeah. So it’s, you know, it’s one of those, uh, The daughters of one of their foundation mayor. So yeah know that family, that family on turf is one of the best turf families.
We see, you know, generations and, [00:40:00] uh, that’s, Philly’s now, uh, fi five years of age. So these turf horses when they get up there in age and that pedigree and that, that class, and that family comes through, we’re going to win one, one, one point. So, uh, She has every right to be, be right there. I just think loss in yours, just the pure class in the field.
One of the things we love to do when Sean comes on is talk about breeding angles that are useful for horse players. When I came into the game, just as a horse player, you start reading industry news and there’ll be so to my mind at that time, so much breeding info, and I wouldn’t always even fully be able to grasp it.
And. As I’ve gotten further in my development as a horseplayer I realized not only is it interesting and not only is it part of the engine that drives the game, of course, along with the betting dollar, but there is a lot of signal on some interesting stuff you can pick up, that’s going to help you to cash bets.
A point that Mike Maloney makes embedding with an edge that I agree with is there still seems to be equity in [00:41:00] many situations, especially interfaces, but dirt races too, on certain female families. That tends to be extra productive. And when you can find a horse from one of these families, sometimes people will just be betting them off straight numbers, and they might have a little something in hand that you can’t see there in the pages of daily racing forum that can help you cash a bet.
I would assume as a breeding industry guy, Sean, you agree with that? I do. And then also where you, you can find that useful if it’s possible to turn races when it comes to, um, you know, that those two races that aqueduct that both myelinates races for two year olds there, um, you know, that there’s very few two-year-olds that, that want and can get a mile and eight sometimes at that point in the year and finding that horse that wants, that truly wants a distance and positive spirit that pioneer of the Nile Philly, that one for Rudy Rosette, she was, you know, She had all kinds of [00:42:00] female families.
She’s a half to a Derby winner and you look on paper and she’s the one, you know, Rudy was pretty high on her, but she’s still sitting there, I think 10 at 12 to one. And, um, but she’s, you know, on paper, the pedigree says she would love mile and eight and she ended up drawn off by 10 and everybody else was scrambling with a tongue thing now to the wire.
So there’s times, you know, in that sense as well that you can use it and help separate. I think it’s very useful. Especially with two year olds. I think once you get an older horse and they’ve got more PPS to fall back on, you kind of know what they are. Right. And you kind of know, uh, you know, whether it be a soft, soft turf course or, or affirm course, or lots of slop, or, you know, has only been running some races, whether it’s ideal distance, but he’s back to his ideal distance.
Um, the older horses, you have more insulin, but I think the younger horses especially are very useful to know kind of. The blood lines a little bit. Let’s move on to California. And this is the race I was talking about before. I don’t even [00:43:00] remember what I said, but I believe it was as bad as when I called the , whatever I said last year for the last I.
But I I’m very confident in my pronunciation. Now. It goes as Ray six, it is a grade three, six and a half. Uh, we’re going down the Hill, but we’re going down the Hill, but because J K have you noticed the forecast out there in California? I haven’t noticed it’s, it’s always, it’s always sunny in California.
What are you talking about? It’s meant to rain and it’s meant to rain to the point where John Sadler has entered cell court in the assumption or hope. I think that this is going to be washed off and run as a sprint on the dirt. So I do not think you will be seeing cell court. If the rumors are true. If this race holds on the turf.
I wish I could have another host fail. I could have prepped you guys for the fact that this was probably coming off. Let’s talk about it as a turf race, because that’s [00:44:00] what it was meant to be, but just know we won’t go too deep into the weeds with that in mind that the jury is very much out on which surface is race is going to be held on.
Uh, we also have one in here compelled who we talked about extensively during that super fun hour on the old show we had in December with Craig. Berneke when he’s very excited about, I would imagine, uh, another, uh, scratch will be on hand. If this one does change surfaces, JK, what do you have for me? Oh my gosh.
I’m I’m, I’m feeling bad. I, I did my, uh, my out of the gate play for DRF this week was like, A whole play around beating, sell court. Like, I didn’t know. She, I thought she was, oops. Well, that’s what they get.
No. So, um, uh, you know, well, on the turf I thought the two horses made the most sense. I thought compelled. Obviously we talk about the rail, not being a great place to be going down the Hill. I [00:45:00] still think she kind of falls out of the race and then comes running with one run. So I don’t think it’s going to really be a problem for her.
And then painting corners, I think is extremely talented when you can, when going five turf sprinting at Del Mar and when going six and a half down the Hill, it’s saying, Anita, I think it says a lot about your talent and the quality. So those are the two horses that I thought were the most likely winners.
And, uh, and, and I thought I was going to get cute, trying to beat sell court, but, uh, obviously John Sadler is a smarter than I am. He’s one step ahead of you JK at the, at the least. Sean, anything to add to this? Or should we just quickly move, move it along to the next one? Well, actually real quickly was is, and this is what I ha you, you brought up, um, bedding angles, and this is actually the turf, the down the Hill turf course.
Um, I mean, I can, as far as California racing goes, I know the majority of just two friends that are out there and you kind of go out there for the breeders cop or stakes races and you learn some [00:46:00] things. So. Just from watching these stakes races and, and, and learning about this turf course. I mean, here, I think I generally, what people have taught me about this turf course is a, the outside posts are better for going down the Hill.
Um, milers on the main street, on the, on the, on the, uh, The main turf course, milers cut back to down the Hill are, are very advantageous. And I use that once in the breeders cup, I think there was a money cold. I’m trying to remember Dan Hendricks trained the horse. Uh Oh, okay. And then, uh, the model might’ve had the horse at this point, it was, it was the horse named, obviously he was that running.
Yeah. Miler and they ran. I think they might’ve both got nosed out, but they ran like second and third or first and second they’re both like 25 to one or something, but I use the miler off the main turf and, and, and, you know, they were both California horses, which I think is an advantage. So Bruce kept going back out there.
So those horses tend to run pretty good down the, you know, down the Hill [00:47:00] out there. So, um, But looking at it, a horse like Delaware Bay has a lot of experience on, on the turf course. She’s won four times going down the Hill. I didn’t even consider looking to see if there was any rain coming into California.
So I as well was kind of scratching my head as to why cell court was, was doing what she was doing. But I guess. It goes to show you J K you’re not the only one who wonder prepares, but, uh, the, the horse, the horse, I was kinda like wanting to get excited about a little bit. She was sitting at 12 to one with the other Proctor, with the blinkers off, um, Philly.
They had been running two turns on the turf last time out. Um, you know, it was a mile and a tariff. I don’t know. First time going down the, going down the Hill Proctor. I’m rooting for Ken and Lisa Turney are very good breeders here in Lexington. So I don’t know, I was just going to take a swing there, but sense.
I think that both those points you make about the downhill are correct with one little addition, and this is just [00:48:00] anecdotal and there are databases out there. Some of you listen, and if there’s a database or listening who wants to help look at this particular question, I’d be appreciative. If not. One of the things I want to do once I get the show a little bit more stable and get my new professional life established is do a little bit of database like of my own.
But the thing I want to test is that idea of the rail down the Hill, not being where you want to be. I think it’s correct, but I think it’s much more correct when you’re looking at a big full field, as opposed to the short fields they often get. So I think when people have looked at that question in macro, it hasn’t left footprints.
That that is correct, but I think it’s probably correct based on how many horses are in the race anyway. Something fun to do. I think that, I think that the, the other thing is if, if, if you’re databasing right, I think the other part to keep in mind is like a running style of the horse that happens to draw the rail great point.
That’s probably, and, and the, and the race design itself. I want to say [00:49:00] that a horse was speed on the rail in a moderate to fast paced race. Is that a big disadvantage going down the Hill? More so than like a, you know, the, the, you know, the opposite of what that would be. You know what I mean? I, I think that that probably, um, impacts it.
I think that’s a good point and field size again, makes sense. That that would sort of be related to that JK expecting a mid to fast paced, more, the more horses who signed on anyway, something we’ll be talking about. More on the show as we go on. It’s an interesting, fun aspect of USA. Horseplaying to try to suss out what’s going on with that down the Hill turf race and Sean points out well, we’ll have a breeders’ cup race down the Hill too, which will be very interesting because you’re going to get.
Horses coming with great looking form from Europe. They’re going to be at a serious disadvantage, no matter what the foreign book says to me, because it is so quirky compared to some of those California horses who’ve been running down there all along. [00:50:00] Let’s move on to race eight. It’s the LA Kenyatta not going to catch me out there, but yet another one where the host fail is just right on the tip of the tongue.
We’re going a mile 16th on the dirt here. We’re going to push this one back in your court, Sean. Well, I’m looking at this and I guess quickly also paying attention to that. You probably need to pay, uh, they could be a wet track. Um, there’s a little bit of wet form there. Um, the, the five to two shot in there for Don Schnell who, uh, interesting enough, um, as five to achieve one, one, sorry, on the wet.
And so did, uh, takes wild cat. I’m going to be. Um, slightly rooting for Bernina star because we are actually standing her half-brother national flag in Ohio this year. So the, um, one of my patent of status hits pedigree a little bit, if she can get it done. Um, and then kind of a pedigree play here, uh, Philly [00:51:00] that looks like, uh, it’s kinda going in the right direction and she’s trying, uh, It looks like dirt for the first time, but she is actually a half sibling to the good horse, Papa Clem, the other quality filet Stradella road, Bay rhinos ops she’s five to one.
She probably enjoyed it. The wet going out of, uh, uh, blown to me, Marin being by looser quality. And so I’m going to, uh, If I had to be pressed at that one, I think I might put a little bit of, uh, across the board on the two horse, J K, did this connect to the pick play you gave out for out of the gate where you’re still a participant over there for our friends at DRF?
Or did you have to look at this one individually for our show? I did not. I didn’t have a strong opinion in this race, so I didn’t try to connect the, uh, I didn’t try to connect the two. Um, you know, I looked at Sidella road too, and I, I guess the part that, that threw me off the most is like, There was no dirt Tris, um, [00:52:00] as a, as a two old or as a three-year-old.
And, and that w with a horse that you think that would Excel on the dirt with as big as our three-year-old dirt programs can be in this country, you would think that at some point, if this horse had shown the ability to run on the dirt, they would have tried the horse on the dirt and I could be completely wrong.
It’s just that part of the narrative is throwing me off and looking at that horse, because time form us suggests, uh, that something, you know, on or near the lead is going to be in an advantageous spot. This one projects, the kind of get the rail and be in that position. I went with the Ritchie Baltic source, the lemon drop kid, uh, Philly, uh, Laguna, uh, who ran well, the grade one last year ran fourth, the Val Dory in the grade ones.
And Jada had the 91 days off, comes back, closing into blue fractions on the turf, and then runs back in 13 days, kind of quick turnaround, uh, forwardly placed to be sharp should be much better than second off. They should be better getting back onto the dirt. Uh, so I went with a three Lamona as my top [00:53:00] choice.
I think the race is really tough. All right there, you have it. Our analysis of the graded stakes racing this weekend. I’m going to circle back to each of you guys. If you have a final thought you’d like to share could be anything about the highlighting site. We’ve already talked about looking ahead to something else and observation, whatever it is, but before.
I get to the final thoughts. I would just want to mention one more time about the survey helped me out. I hope I don’t sound like a broken record, but it really would be fantastic. If you could go to in the money podcast.com fill out our listener survey. Hopefully you’ll already be subscribing to the blog and or to our feed on iTunes.
Both of those things also big helps as we get this show we’re already off and running. We’re already up at the same numbers we were at at the other show. And now for the first time in its history, we’re actually going to be marketing the DRF play. Oh, I said it, and I’m going to leave it in just to punish myself for the first time ever.
We’re going to [00:54:00] be marketing the podcast, really looking for those numbers to grow. And so if you guys can help us do that, I always thank the listeners at the end of the show. And I mean, it sincerely, you’re what makes it so fun to do your, what makes it possible? I am in this one instance, I try not to ask too much in this one instance, I am going to ask for help in these areas.
So please share the show with your friends in racing and, uh, take those other little and we should be in good shape. Okay. Sean, I’m going to start with you. Do you have a final thought concerning racing this weekend or anything else in the racing world? Pete, I just want to thank you for, for having me on again.
It’s always a good time getting on here and talking to both you and John kitchen and very excited for the new show. Your show is fantastic. Um, I know a lot of people in our industry really enjoy listening to it. It’s great insight. Uh, it’s got good speed to it. And, uh, so hopefully you can take this new show and, and, and grow with it and, uh, very exciting, but just [00:55:00] to get the DRF out, when you’re on that yoga mat, it’s get born with yourself, get up, get rid of the DRF and get the ITM and ITM and the Alex can do it.
I know you can, um, and, uh, excited for where the new show is going to go. And, uh, can’t wait to see out the races. Thank you, my friend. That’s a good idea. Literally, you know, you’re on the yoga mat and they ask you to set your intention for the practice it’s supposed to be. You know, I’m sending my inner love and peace and compassion out to a friend in need or something like that.
In my case, it’s just going to be intention to don’t mess up the letters. Don’t mess. Don’t say it. Don’t say DRF. Don’t say DRM. J K a final thought. Yeah. My final thought is why Sean, thank you for being on the show. You didn’t see. So I’m not really sure it was that thing. I said, thank you to everyone.
Don’t you worry about that. All right, gentlemen, we’ve done. Uh, we’ve done an hour on here and that’s what we’re going to do for today. We will be back shortly. [00:56:00] Sean. No. Good deed goes unpunished. You’ll be back soon. I want to thank JK. I want to thank Sean. I want to thank DJ unstable for his continued tech support really berating me, uh, for the bad levels.
Apparently I’ve been putting out in the final product. Listeners have not complained. They used to complain all the time with the bad sound. Oh, one other note, somebody asked about the banging and clanging they’re hearing in the background. Uh, the last couple of shows. This is a case of the law of unintended consequences, having good sound now and recording from a place that was built in the 19th century.
It’s cold in New York and we got an old furnace and that’s just the banging and clanging of the pipes, not JKS a ghost that he’s afraid of as one listener speculated to me. So don’t, don’t worry that the ghost is shackled up in the boiler room, not actually making those noises anyway. Thanks to you guys.
Thanks to DJ on stable. [00:57:00] Most of all, thanks to all of you for listening. A lot of listeners, really stepping up and helping out, getting the new show going. And I just appreciate it so much. We will be back on Monday or Tuesday, not sure what we’re going to do yet, but we’ll be back early next week. I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel.
May you win all your photos.