Show #8 – Friday, January 18 (Beem Me Up)

***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

You’re listening to the, in the money players podcast.

Hello, welcome to the, in the money players podcast. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a towel back with you in the Brooklyn bunker. Very cold in Brooklyn today. Snowing even on my little run outside, it is show number eight. It is Friday, January 18th, 2019. And. Joined by a very special guest we’ll get to in a minute, but also by the usual cohost of this radio program, he is the people’s champion.

He is sitting on the side of a road, I think somewhere in the planet, Texas, at this point, Jonathan kitchen, what’s up JK I’m outside of a hotel. I don’t even know what it’s called Wyndham Wingate by Wyndham. I was going to, to, uh, one of my favorite moves is a sneak into business centers and record my various media obligations.

When, when, when, uh, people don’t know where you’re at, you just get into like a business center and you just act like you’re staying at the hotel. And, uh, but this one was like kind of weird. It was tucked in behind. It just felt like, uh, Keelan green coat was gonna come up behind me at any moment and tell me I had to leave.

So I panicked and. Went out to the car. That’s pretty funny. The King of all media, you’ve been described by our friend, Mike Maloney, with your various media appearances, as you say, and now I’d like to welcome to the pod. I don’t think he was ever an official guest on the other old podcast. Very happy to have him among the first guests on this one, you know, for a lot of different reasons.

He’s a rock star. On Twitter. We’ll talk about that. He is the creator of the eponymous beamy awards. He’s also the host of the bet America radio network. That’s barn podcast, Jason beam. Welcome to the show. It’s it’s great to be with you guys. And I got to say. Uh, I have done what Jonathan’s done. I’ve totally done the business center move and I have I’ve done.

The beauty of podcast is you can kind of do it everywhere, right. And whenever you want, and I have a mobile mic set up and I remember interviewing Gabby, got debt from the. The bank parking, lot of the Mount Shasta burger King. So, so, so, so I know what Jonathan’s going through right now. I’ve been there back in the day.

I was known on occasion when it was all at alternate side of the street parking day, here in Brooklyn to sit in the key food parking lot. But I think you’ve got me beat. No, I mean, yeah. I, I, my two best ones where I did, I interviewed Gabby at the burger King in a snowstorm and then. Steve asked and his people, I had made a request to interview them and they said, we don’t know when.

And so I said, okay, we’ll just, you know, so as long as I got 10 minutes notice, so she messages me, Hey, call Steve and 10 minutes. And I’m like 30 minutes from my house. It was 90 degrees outside and I had all my stuff and I was right next to like a really busy road. So I had to close all the windows. And do the interview and it hadn’t been 120 degrees in the car.

And if you, if you listen, while Steve is doing. Well, he’s talking about snapper Sinclair winning at lucky down, you can hear me grabbing ice from my cup and pouring it on my neck. Phenomenal. Where do you think is the weirdest place JK you’ve ever done the show from Ben? For sure. I mean bed bed is like probably 45% of the time.

I’ve done that before. No, not that many times, but I’ve done bed before I’ve done Vegas hotel. Uh, I’m trying to think the craziest place I’ve done it. We tried to do it once from poolside in Mexico. I tried that that didn’t work. We had to cancel that show. Uh, I’m going with the phone booth at the Langham for me, that that’s my most ridiculous place.

Jason, you were telling a story right? As we went on air a, uh, a Kentucky Derby, legendary announcer tale. Why don’t you pick that one up for the listeners? Well, we were talking about the, uh, the fairgrounds races coming up Saturday. And you were saying, Oh, what race number was it? Makes sure I got the right race number.

Uh, the great loop pride boss, who was the voice of Churchill from I think, 2000 to 2008 when he passed away. Um, He used to tell me, he goes, he goes, the last thing I do, he goes the minute I see number 19, go in the gate. And I see number 20 is coming up. He goes, I always looked down on my program just to make sure I got the right rates going on.

And it always just kind of made me laugh because I mean, you know, how, how could you not have the right race at that point? But he, the other funny thing, Luke used to have the Churchill booths at that new. Well, since they did the addition, uh, there it’s, uh, just a sheet of glass, like from head to toe. And Luke used to have the name of the starter, uh, carved into the glass and, um, I’ve totally forgotten the guy.

I remember one of them was Roger Nagel and, uh, and they changed to another, uh, another starter. He had to scratch that out in the glass and, and wrote him. He used to tell me, he goes, I don’t like the new starter as much. And I said, why is he doing a bad job? He goes, no, it was just so fun to always go rod your navel with us.

It’s great. Um, uh, I’ve been, been lucky enough to, to hang out in some announcers booths. Um, and right before they call a race, I’m always amazed by like how distracted they can be prior and still do their job. Are you one of those guys that when you’re calling, is it quiet in there for the first 15 minutes?

Or can you kind of memorize and, and kind of communicate with your, with your guests or friends while you’re doing it? It kind of depends, uh, part of it. Yeah. It depends on where the meet you are. Like if you’re at Portland Meadows and it’s a six month meet and it’s the last month of the meat and you’ve called these horses seven times already this season, I mean, I can memorize them for seconds cause you just, you know, those horses, you know, those silks and, uh, and you know, what’s going on.

Like when I was at Gulf stream West a couple, uh, about two months ago, filling in and. Gulf stream. I mean, they throw 11 and 12 force fields at you. Like, I mean, you’re just getting them fired at you every second. And I didn’t know those horses or those silks at all. And so, I mean, that was a. You know, I used every ounce of those 25 minutes I had plus the seven minutes of drag.

I actually, you know, it was funny. I told somebody, I said, I I’ll be honest with you that post time drag. It goes way faster. When you’re sitting there memorizing 12 horses on the graph. That’s horrific. I wanted to ask you about your recent experience behind the mic. How did you enjoy it? What did that feel like?

It was, it was great. It was, I, uh, I hadn’t called a race since I think my last race I called was March of 2015, uh, at Louisiana downs. And so I, um, I kind of had thought I was done with that portion of my life. Uh, and so when Peter called me about it, I was. Yeah, I was really excited and I was like, yeah, that’d be awesome, man.

Cause I, you know, I had applied for future. My, my deal with bed America has always been that if I wanted to go call races, I could do the show in addition to it and we’d figure it all out. And, uh, and I had applied for a few other ones and really just never got to sniff. And I think the, you know, my, I mean, things kind of fell apart at Louisiana downs for me personally.

And so I think that, you know, my reputation maybe was like, you know, maybe this guy is not the most reliable dude. Uh, and so I just, I mean, I, wasn’t getting a sniff on jobs where I. Kind of thought I should have been a contender for him. Uh, so I really had kind of given up on that and Pete reached out and Pete, he he’s such a sweet guy and he told me, he goes, yes, I really, when I was thinking of who would fill in, he goes, I just thought, who would appreciate this the most?

And he goes, I really thought you would. And I said, you’re right. And, uh, and it was great. Like the first day I went there and, uh, You know, I was really nervous. The first race, you know, you could certainly hear my voice. I was nervous. And then I settled in and it, it kind kinda got to be like, it was like, it used to be, and it was really fun.

And you know, when I finished the day, I was really emotional. I, I actually, I called my mom and I was, I broke down crying. I was just, I was so happy that I. Had kind of overcome what was a little bit of a fear because of the way things ended at Louisiana downs. And, uh, and it was just really fun. And so those whole two weeks were, it was really a blast.

It was a great challenge because I don’t know if you guys have seen the setup they have there, they knocked over the call to grandstand. It’s gone. And so they have three construction trailers stacked on top of each other. And that’s where the stewards, the placing judges, the camera guy. So on top, it’s just me and the camera guy.

You’re only about 15 feet in the air, 20 feet in the air and you’re in it. So you’re at a terrible low angle. The hedges have kind of grown up over the rail. So on both turns, you can’t see the saddle towels. And I know a lot of announcers are like, Oh, you’re never looking at the side of have BS.

If you got another identifier that you can use. You use it. So I Al I always get annoyed when guys I’ve never looked at fat. Yeah, you do. And so what cause when, you know, when they, and when they were on the turn, if they’re stacked two or three across, you just, you’re so low that you can’t see those outs at horses.

So it was a, it was a really, really great challenge, but it was, it was really rewarding thing. And I, I just, I had never been to Florida, so it was fun to see a new part of the country and got to see the Pegasus statue and, uh, and all that kind of fun stuff. I was listening to, uh, your, your show earlier this week with, with, uh, with the champ, Michael  friend of our podcast as well.

You, uh, you’re back in the booth this weekend, right? Where at. Yeah, I’m going to, uh, century downs in the Calgary. I’m actually good friends with the, some of the guys that run that operation cause they were based in, uh, at Hastings and Hastings is where I live in Seattle and Hastings was real close. So I’ve known those guys over the years.

They, uh, they needed someone to fill in for it for a day. And I said, you know what I said, I’m not that far away. I’ll, I’ll go up to, uh, to Calgary. So I’m going to go there. And then they have a new track that they’re actually opening in, uh, in April. So I’m going to go check out that in Edmonton called century mile, and it’s replacing the old North lands park, uh, which I think the facility there just kinda gotten outdated and, uh, They, uh, they wanted to build a new one.

So there’ll be a, a fun trip. Cause I mean, you know, taking a vacation to Alberta January is what a lot of people do and I’ve called one hardest race of my life and it was a Pompano park. And so it’ll be kind of fun to try something new. I mean, I really, I don’t know a lot about harness. So I told them, I said, you’re going to get some, some pretty bare bones, race calls, but uh, It’ll be fun, challenging yourself personally, and professionally leads to a more enriching experience of life.

I like it a lot. I wasn’t planning on asking about this, but I, I, I want to now I’m a person who certainly of the mind that. When you have personal issues, whether they have to do with depression or anxiety, it’s really no different in my mind than somebody who gets sick, uh, with, uh, with a physical ailment.

You, you overcome it, you move on. There’s no reason to judge somebody for having had any type of issue like that in the past. I was just curious if you have any advice. For people out there in the world who may have gone through something similar to what happened to you, that incident you referred to back at Louisiana downs in terms of your ability to turn the page and move on with your life.

How did you do that? And what kind of place are you in emotionally? Now? That was a, the turning the page was actually one of the really tougher parts. Even the Louisiana downs thing. It w it was kind of half struggling with mental health, half. Uh, my dream job at Emerald bounds opened up and they wanted me to apply.

And so I went, I went back and applied and interviewed and then didn’t get it inside. I just was like, I just don’t want to go back to Louisiana. And so it was a lot of different reasons, but I had struggled with the anxiety and depression stuff for a long time. I mean, even at Portland Meadows, there was one year Portland.

I think it was 2013. Uh, I had gotten so agoraphobic, like I wasn’t leaving my apartment other than to. Get food and go to work. And like, just going up to the booth was giving me panic attacks. And so they actually, they set up a situation where I could be in my office downstairs, which was like right next to my car.

And I just called the races off the TV for like half the season. And if you, uh, if you listen to those calls, you really can’t tell. That there’s anything different, except for there was one race where the camera man, uh, the camera slipped out off of the little wheel and they’re going to, they’re going around the turn.

And the camera goes from, you know, from on the, uh, Covering the race to like, literally just looking straight down at the ground for five seconds. I, I we’d, we talked about Lou cry boss. I use it old Luke, right. Boss trick. Cause it was on the turn. And so I went winding around the fire and you, you, you learn how to stall sometimes and that, but it was, uh, the anxiety stuff.

I, it was, it was such a. It was just debilitating in a lot of ways. And what I found was that my life was just getting smaller and smaller because I was avoiding more and more things that I was nervous about. And then, you know, you start finding a lot of shame because of how you’re living and then you just don’t want to be seen anymore.

And I just really, I mean, my first year or so here at bet, America was, it was this relief that I could work from home, but in a way, it kind of enabled me to kind of keep up. Avoiding seeing people. And, uh, and it just, uh, it just kinda kept getting worse and worse and worse. And I didn’t really have a, a moment where I was like, I need to turn this around.

I honestly just started walking more and doing more stuff. And as I got my fitness back up and I kind of just started pre I mean, cause exposure therapists, the only way you get over. Anxiety stuff, right. Or, uh, agoraphobia stuff. And so I just started going and doing more things. And as I did more things, it became easier to do more things.

And I kind of started getting that spirit to want to go to do more things. And so as far as, you know, turning the page. It took me a while to accept that because I really viewed myself just as a total failure, because I think that I had great potential as a race caller, and I was kind of working my way up the ladder as you do.

And, um, and it just kind of all blew up. And so for a long time, I was like, you know, well, I just, I blew my skills and my opportunity, and now it’s all over. And as you said, you come to find out that if you, if you know, people know that I never had any. Ill intentions are, you know, I was like, none of my employers would ever, I don’t know, I’ve never been fired from a job and they’ve all told me, you know, they, they all liked me as a, as an employee.

And so I, I think people understand it took me a while to understand that though. Cause I just, I had just so much shame about it and um, You know, as you, as you work through and you know, the last year or two, I’ve kind of found myself doing better and being in a, in a better place. And so it’s, it’s strange to kind of look back at that time because sometimes like, you know, alcoholics anonymous or gamblers anonymous, it’s sometimes good to keep the bad memories fresh.

Just to remember why you want to keep working to not go back there. At what point, uh, in your career in racing, did you come up with a brilliant idea of. Of the BME awards, which is a, an award show that you, that you started. And tell us a little bit about what the awards is and where in your career you kind of got the idea and the history behind I was, um, the first one was December of 2014 and, uh, I didn’t promote it.

I didn’t, I mean, it was not going to be a, you know, a big thing. It was literally like a Friday night. I thought it would be funny too. Do like Twitter awards. And obviously all my friends are in racing, so they were all kind of racing related and it was like, you know, best fight. And it was, uh, you know, just like I remember the first year, one of the winners was the, uh, like best moment of the year.

And the winner was anytime, a good horse beats, a weak field off a layoff and people freak out. That was the Normandy invasion. Was that the horses name? There was a horse called Normandy invasion. Chad Brown ran in the Derby. Yeah. Yeah. I think he was what kind of spun that cause he had come back and he had like one to five horse allowance at Gulf stream by 10 and people just thought, well, here’s the second coming of man award.

It was like, Nope. You know, but, but people do that. Like they, these horses, they come back off. A layoff and they beat up on a crappy field. Got a bear. Did it remember when he went live earlier this year, he beat up on a bunch of tin cans and everybody’s like, Oh, he’s going to be a little pig as this world cup.

Oh, come on. He’s going to run down accelerate. So, uh, which, by the way, he almost of course did last. But, uh, no, so it was just a lot of like dumb stuff like that. And, and it really people liked it and then they thought it was funny. And so the next year I kind of did it up a little bit more and we started adding in the red carpet and, and all that kind of stuff.

And, uh, I mean, we got sponsors this year, a little red feather racing is our title sponsor now. Uh, and so, so that’s kind of fun and. Yeah. I mean, it’s just, it’s, it’s really just meant to be kind of a fun night where we can all goof around and, uh, I very much try to make sure there’s very, very little malice.

There’s a little poking of the bears once in a while, but, uh, I really don’t, you know, I don’t try to crap on anybody. And the funny thing about the first year was, uh, we talked about Louisiana downs. I had accepted the job at Louisiana downs about a week before the beanies and I had already planned them a little bit, but, um, I remember thinking, I go, God, should I even do this?

These guys just hired me. It’s, you know, the Caesars corporate track. Maybe I shouldn’t be out here posting Photoshops of, you know, Bob Baffert and then, and then going over there. And so I almost did do them. And then luckily, and funny enough, there’ll be me awards and stuck and Louisiana downs. Pretty funny.

This is the fifth annual beamy awards. It’s coming up this weekend. Um, Oh, it’s tonight. Let’s give us, give us the lowdown on where folks who want to follow along. What’s the best way to do it. Uh, Penelope Miller, who you guys probably know from America’s best racing. She, one time she, one time told me her method of watching the beanies and I thought it was brilliant.

She, she opens up three tabs. She has my, my account on one of the tabs. She has the hashtag beamy awards on one of the tabs. And then she has her own feed on one of the tabs. And she told me, she goes, cause that’s how I do it every year. And I go, that makes perfect sense. But my, my Twitter account, that BB awards, and like I said, it’s all on Twitter.

There’s a couple of videos. We do kind of a mock in memoriam thing and, uh, and a good night thing. But yeah, if you just go to my Twitter at BME awards and that you can follow along and I, I always tell people I have no. If you want to just follow it tonight and unfollow. I won’t, I won’t message. You would be like, Hey, what’s with you unfollow man.

Like I totally get it. And for those now, because of when this podcast comes up, when some people listen, they might be tuning in after the awards have happened, best way to catch the show. After the fact, would you think it’s just going through your feed or is there something, well, I think going through my feet and then just, I tell everybody anything you’re responding and, uh, you know, Hashtag beamy awards.

And that way people can just click the hashtag. And as I say, watch on demand and, and also the, you know, like we’ve trended nationally, the last three years cracks me up, you know, and a big part of that is cause everybody hashtags, all the responses and stuff. So it just, the first year, I’ll never forget what it trended.

It was the day Rudy Giuliani announced he was either, I can’t use either running for president or dropped out of running for president, but there was just something so hilarious to me that the trends were Rudy Giuliani and. Terrific. What’s the award, uh, the category that’s got the most, the most contentious this year, which, which ones should we, uh, tune in for?

It’s going to be the most exciting to see. So yeah, so the, the, the categories, I get a lot of grief from people about this. So I never there’s no nominees. I mean, I always remind, like, cause I’d get people on Twitter. Like, how do I want to be me? Or I couldn’t believe they said there is no meritocracy. So winning this, like literally.

All I want to do is make it a funny night. And so anything I think is funny that I can make into a funny award, uh, is. Is what I’m going to use. And so there’s, there’s very rarely, you know, kind of set categories and, uh, and stuff like that. Well, let me pull up my little list here because I, I mean, I don’t tell anybody any of the categories, uh, the, the best photo to Photoshop is when we have done the last few years and that one always seems to get a kick out of people.

Cause it’s, you know, it just takes a photo of that. Somehow came and put her, and then we put the person in kind of weird situations based on how the photo looks. And so, uh, I think that one will be really, really good this year. And one of my other favorites is best Twitter hiatus because inevitably 20 times a year, at least probably more than that, I will see people say, I am so done with Twitter.

I’m not going to take the day off taking the week off. I’m never coming back. And then an hour later or they’re posted about something. And I remember my, one of my favorite ones was. A guy named John , who’s a, an aspiring race caller and works in the, in Maryland. He had, well, he won the award and he had said, he goes, he goes, I got to get off social media for a while.

It stressed me out that it did the, and then like two hours later, he goes, Hey, how about that top pick, finish over it, Dan, on a massage cut off. So I just, it was, it was the most tout thing of all time, right? Because if you’re a towel, like you have to brag about it. Like you can’t just, you know, you can’t just lift that four to one winner you gave out, sit there, uh, flood around in the ether.

You got, you got to give out there. So I thought. I just, that always kills me when guys are like, I am done with it. And I always say Twitter is like the hotel, California. You can check out, but you can’t leave great stuff. The leopard can’t change its spots and all that. Yeah. I want to talk a little bit about your background.

How did you get into racing in the first place? My, uh, my dad was a gambler and, uh, we, I grew up about three years, miles from old long acres racetrack, which was this beautiful track here in suburban Seattle. And I always tell people whenever I get a chance, there’s a great movie that’s available for free on the Seattle channel called miracle strip.

And if you just Google miracle strip Longacres. Uh, you’ll be, you can watch it for free. It’s like an hour and a half, and it’s this great documentary of an amazing track. That was from 1933 to 1992. And so me and my dad would go out there. He’d take me out there every weekend. My mom would give me 20 bucks.

It’s like a bet, two bucks, each race. And my dad would take the 20 and tea and he’d go, I’ll make your bets for you. And I came to find out because I hit that exactly one time with captain condo over grand stand game. I still remember the horses and it paid like 50 bucks. And so I asked dad for the money and he goes, I’ll get it to you Wednesday.

So I realized that he was the, he was booking my accident. But, uh, yeah, I, I just, I grew up as a again and I wanted to be a jockey and my dad was, you know, six foot two, and my mom was five 10. So you can, you can guess how that turned out. I, I, uh, real quick aside story, I had, uh, Gary Bula, Jay was the top jockey there when I was a kid and he was my favorite jockey and I had a stuffed jockey Teddy bear that I named Gary bear lingerie.

And, uh, and so one time I was getting Gary’s autograph and I was nine years old. Yeah, maybe 10 years old. It was like 99. And, uh, I, I told him I he’s autograph and Gary bear lawn, Jay. And I told him, I said, you know, I want to be a jockey to Mr. Bula and Jay and I was about two inches shorter than him. And he looks over at my dad was six two, and he goes, well, good luck.

That was sent me on my way. But no, I just, I, I. I loved the sport. I love the gambling part of it. And, uh, I kinda got away with it w or away from it when lawmakers closed, because there was a four year period here before Emerald downs got open, uh, where there was no local racing. And I was, you know, a teenager then.

So I was playing baseball and, uh, and then when my dad got sick, he had a skin cancer. The only thing he kind of wanted to do was other than his treatments was go out to the, to the Emerald. And so I started going out with him again. Uh, for most of the summer of Oh one and he passed away that summer and I kind of just kept going and, uh, eventually got a job, uh, in, uh, at Emerald downs in, in Oh four as a media assistant.

So I was writing like turf notes and press releases and got to meet Robert Geller and, uh, started practicing announcing, and then off I went. Very cool. Awesome. Awesome. To hear that a, the dad was involved. My dad probably tried to do the same thing to me except. He, uh, he, he would give me the money and then take it back.

So, um, yeah, I was reading your, your, your piece. You wrote about poker on your, on your blog. And one of the things that really stuck, one of the things that really stuck out to me and that I’m sure this wasn’t even the most important thing, but your mom ran a poker room and you worked a surveillance. Tell us a little bit about that.

It sounds like an unbelievable story. Yeah, no, my, uh, my mom was a, she, her, her, her career was kind of a great story. She started, uh, there was a poker room here called diamond Lil’s and it was about two miles from old monikers. And so it was. You know, there was a huge crossover of poker and horse players in the eighties and nineties.

And she was a waitress there at, at diamond Lil’s and eventually work your way into accounting. And then it worked her way into being a general manager. And then she left for a couple of years and their business was suffering. And so the guy, a guy named Fred. Uh, he asked her to, uh, to come back and work for her and, you know, after the race stuff.

And she said, well, I want to be part owner. And so she bought in for 10% and then Fred passed away a few years later. And so she bought the rest of it. And so she literally went from waitress to owner over the course of about 10 years. And, uh, and she ran it for 20 years and, uh, before she sold it a couple of years ago, but yeah, it was.

It was great because, you know, having a business owned by a family member, you know, I, when I was in college, I could kind of come and go and she would find me a few hours every week to do stuff. And, uh, for a couple summers, I did surveillance at the poker room and, you know, it’s literally like you see in Vegas, like there’s 30 TVs in front of you and you, you got your little joystick where you can zoom in on stuff.

And, um, It was, uh, it was great as far as learning poker, because I could sit and watch the poker hands and zoom in. And this was 2000, 2001, 2002. So this is right when that boom is happening, you know, the moneymaker and all that stuff. And so, uh, it was, it was really a great. It was, I mean, it was an amazing summer job and, you know, and it kind of gets, it would get boring if you didn’t kind of get the point because otherwise you just sit in there and, uh, and watch your hands.

And there’s a lot of just procedural stuff doing surveillance. Like you gotta change the tapes every four hours and, uh, you gotta do, you know, you gotta follow around the. Buddy when they’re pulling all the cash out of the tables and all that kind of stuff. But other than that, I mean, there’s just a lot of downtime keeping an eye on the room.

And so, uh, and I mean, you know, and there would be crazy stuff too. I mean, there was some fights and, uh, there was one time a guy, a guy, one guy passed away at the table and he, but it’s kind of a crazy, great story. I mean, it was great of stories. The guy dying could be, he, uh, he was like 96. He was a really older guy and he won a pot.

And he dragged the pot in and he was stacking his chips and he just finished stacking the chips. And like four minutes later, he kind of nodded off there and he just passed away. It was crazy. Well, if you’re gonna go out, I guess you want to go out with the big stack of chips in front of you. Right? So, and the reason I say it was a great story.

It was cause his daughter played there a lot too. And. I talked with her about it. And she was telling me, she goes, she goes, you know, he knew he was kind of sick and, and this and that. And she goes, she goes, she goes, I thought it was the perfect way for him to go. And so, uh, you know, I, I, cause I, you know, like I said, it’s not, it’s not a great thing to got that, but, you know, she knew he had a wonderful long life and, and, and he, and he died too, and what he liked and, and he, and he won his last bet.

That’s a great point. I mean, what do you think JK, if you got to check out at the track, don’t you want to do it with the winning pick six ticket in your pocket? Yeah, you can give me, give me the winning show. Bet. If I’m, if I’m going to go, I just got to go out a winner. Jason, I want to talk a little bit more about the poker piece.

We had a very popular interview earlier in the week with Dave  the new NHC tour champion. And understandably, he was a little cagey is too strong, but not particularly forthcoming when it comes to. The strategies he’s learned in the poker world that he has used effectively in the world of horse racing tournaments.

But the one hint that he did give to folks looking to learn from what he’s done this year on the tour, was to send people towards that blog. What do you think people can pick up about horse racing contests from the poker world? Well, first of all, shout out Maven, thanks for the plug. Uh, well, th the, the piece that I wrote, it kind of germinated from, there was some friends who were talking about a sequence and somebody just said, Oh, good ticket.

And then another guy came in and said, it’s kind of a terrible ticket. And then they kind of went off and, uh, and started going at each other. And I was, I was just thinking about, cause in poker, I’ve noticed that there is a lot more discussion about. Dissecting betting decisions. And, uh, I gave a bunch of examples on the blog.

I mean, there’s YouTube videos, there’s forums, there’s logs, there’s, uh, there’s Facebook pages. Like there’s this one called the hand history lounge, where you literally joined this Facebook group and every night guys just go post hands and they, and they discuss, you know, did I play this right? How could I play it different?

How could I baby got more money? And they just kind of sit and constantly talk about it. We need more. What I realized was. Yeah. Well, and what I realized was that there’s not a lot of that public discourse in racing. I do think some groups of friends talk about that. I think 95% of our conversations are about the handicapping piece, which is obviously an important part of the puzzle.

Uh, but I think there’s very little talked about the, uh, the bedding piece and it was interesting cause I, I. After I wrote it, I got a message from a guy who told me that he had talked to Jonathan of all people. Uh, at some point and Jonathan had said, he goes, it boggles my mind that people will talk and study for four and five hours, how to handicap the race and then put their beds together in two minutes.

And I thought it was a great point, but you have to think, but, but also made me realize we just don’t talk about it a lot. But the other thing I kind of realized is that. You know, most people when they post their ticket on Twitter, they just want you to follow along and root for them. And. I don’t think Twitter is actually the best space to kind of do that, those surgical maneuvers on people’s tickets.

I feel like there’s, there’s gotta be some kind of a, a website or chat room or, or group, you know, or whatever, where you can it out of willingly go to, to get help with that stuff. Because I just don’t think it comes across right on Twitter. Uh, you know, just kind of cold going to, you know, Hey, I think you did this wrong and people get really defensive about it.

And it just seems in poker. People are a little more open to, to learning and just kind of seeking out that information. But then again, in racing, I just think it’s, it’s tougher to have those conversations also because in poker, you know, those odds are fixed. I mean, you know, you have an eight out of 45 chance to hit your flush and in racing, you know, you’re kind of.

Creating your own ops because you know, you’re, you’re making your value line and what have you. But, you know, there is, there used to be a ton of crossover between poker and racing. And w like I said, when I go into my mom’s poker room, growing up half the guys table just been at the track and half the guys table had the form with them while they’re playing poker.

And by the time I started working at the poker rooms, there was like two or three guys in the whole room that were horse players. And now I go there and there’s, there’s none. And so, uh, The just the, and I don’t think that is like one of those things, like, you know, racing doesn’t do this. I just think that poker has kind of got, they’ve just kind of separated themselves a little bit.

I think in. And who approaches them where it used to be kind of, you know, and obviously they were kind of the only two games in town for a long time as well. But, uh, I don’t know. I feel like there should be more because like I said, growing up there was, there was 40 mavens. There was not, not his ability, but guys who were very proficient at poker and the horses.

And now I just, uh, I just don’t know a lot of those people. And I mean, poker players should be right to just play racing. And obviously part of the reason they’re not is because the juice is so high. It’s really, really tough. Yeah. Yeah. It’s such a tough game to not only beat, but you know, I said in the, in the blog piece, there’s more pro.

Poker players in a one mile radius around the commerce casino in LA or around the Bellagio Vegas, then there are in the whole country of horse players. I mean, really, if you think about how many guys make their living from gambling, I mean, it is not on the horses. It is not. And I don’t even mean, you know, guys that are making two, 300,000 guys that are grinding out 40 or 50 grand.

There is not many of them. And because it’s just really, really difficult to do. And the guys I know that do it are the guys that are. You know, churning for the rebates. And so, you know, their whole goal a lot of times is just to break even, or not lose that much. And then the rebates put them over the top.

It’s really a challenge. I love the idea of having a place online. You’re still figuring out what the hole in the money, a brand media presence, et cetera, is going to be. I love the vision of. Uh, the blog site in the money podcast.com becoming a place where people can come to talk about that stuff in a friendly, more extended way with Twitter, you got a few problems, right?

You’ve got the limited character , but you’ve also got the culture and you’ve got some smart people on it who like want to do nothing more than tell other people how dumb they are. And that’s not a place from which you can get to the kind of community you’re describing in poker. But I do think you’re right.

That. There’d be room for it to exist in, in perhaps another forum. Yeah. I mean, I found I’ve found when I, you know, I don’t, I don’t play anymore, but I found that when I have those discussions with people in person or, you know, one-on-one, that they’re really, really valuable and engaging just, and even for me, just as someone who’s wanting to improve my knowledge.

You know, from a content creation standpoint and not from a personal, uh, betting standpoint. So, you know, some of the lessons I’ve learned from having those conversations in valuable and almost none of them have taken place in that public Twitter forum they’ve taken place in, in private messages, emails, or, or even better in person.

And it’s interesting. Cause like I said, in poker, those conversations are real. Like guys will. Come home from a session of poker and they will get right on the internet and say, guys, here’s what happened. I’m in the early position, I got seven, eight of hearts. I did this, I did that. I, you know, I, I won the pot.

I I’m just, I really think I could have got some more value. What do you guys think? And so they’re really soliciting to hear rip me apart so I can learn more. Um, and, and I just think that because it’s, you know, maybe, like I said that a lot of them, like the two plus two forum is one place that people do that.

I think, I think you just need to have the right place and the right situation and you know, and it does help when it’s people that, you know, and trust a little bit too, because you know, there is some vulnerability in saying, look, I spent a hundred dollars on this ticket. It, it, it lost. I know people are gonna think it’s a terrible ticket.

I just want to know why, or maybe what I could have done different. And I’ll tell you a perfect example. A friend of mine the other day was saying how somebody asked his opinion on a, on a sequence. And he said, Oh, I wouldn’t play it. And he was like, why? He goes well, because I think there’s a big favorite, uh, who is a three to five, it’s a single.

And he goes, I just can’t get around that horse. And so therefore I just, I don’t want to play the sequence. And he goes, the guy said, but you know, Who one of the winners is that should be a good thing. And he goes, but everybody’s doing that. You know, he goes, I got to do what everybody’s not doing, but that’s what, that’s how you get some differentiation.

But it was just interesting to hear his thoughts on that even, you know, just like, I just think it’s, it’s really valuable to hear people’s thoughts. And I don’t think Twitter is necessarily the best. Best place that those conversations are happening. Now, I know your relationship to gambling is very complicated.

Obviously you speak about it with, with great passion. It hasn’t been a positive force in your personal life. Where are you right now with bedding? Uh, I, well, I don’t and, uh, it hope to keep it that way. Uh, it, I just, yeah, I don’t, I never had an off button. I, I never had the discipline to, you know, B to play only my convictions.

I mean, I’d studied the races. I’d go out, I’d play the first race or two, if I wanted to start firing more, if I lost it, start trying to play catch up. And I, I remember when I, I stopped playing the races, I remember trying to go back to poker and I noticed that that mentality, it kind of was carrying over to poker because when I first played poker, I was actually really disciplined at it.

Uh, And so I just, I just know for me, it’s just not a good thing. And so I just avoid it and I, I don’t do it. And, you know, I have, I felt hypocritical before, but for working in the business and doing it. Yeah. But you know, it’s also, I gotta, I gotta eat, I gotta pay my bills. And so, but I I’ve really become much more comfortable with the idea of.

Look, this is something I don’t do. And you know, when I, I’m also very, I even wrote that in the poker blog, like, you know, who am I to go have a ticket discussion with someone when I’m not doing it. But I do think I can contribute to those conversations. Uh, and, and I’ve always looked at myself as far as the podcast is concerned as just wanting to create conversations and entertainment and all that kind of stuff.

So, um, You know, I, I think there’s there’s ways to do it. And it took me awhile to kind of figure out how to do it. Like my first couple of years of not betting like 2011, 2012, 2013, I really avoided all of it. I stopped doing pics at Portland for the program. I, you know, I didn’t bring cash to the track. I didn’t, uh, you know, I, I didn’t walk around the gaming area at all.

I mean, I just really, I went up through the back elevator. I mean, I really took every precaution to just avoid it and I kind of started dipping a toe into just. Talking about it more and doing all that kind of stuff, because I just thought that I kind of needed to as far as, you know, to put out an engaging product.

And so it’s a little bit of a walk in the line, but, you know, we, we, we deal with it. You’ve dealt with it. Well, and you do still handicap, which I think is, which is interesting. And, um, I was curious to just ask you a little bit about your, your handicapping process, especially with. Um, bedding removed from the equation.

How do you approach looking at the races for example, that we’re going to be talking about in a couple of minutes at fairgrounds this weekend? I mean, I, I will still very much approach, well, here’s the thing. So my thoughts on bedding or how I would bet have. Changed about a hundred or what is it? 180 degrees.

That’s how it was turning all the way around three 60. Uh, I just, I look at it totally different. Now, a lot of that’s just from what I’ve learned from, from other friends and stuff, uh, that being said, I don’t want to ever try that because like I said, I just, I know how that I’ve played that whole thing out, man.

I know how it goes. So, uh, but I definitely look at things way, way different. I mean, I, I was. Very much raised from the TVG model of I’m going to play pick fours, pick fives. And I just, I got to put every horse in there that I think can win within my budget and really not taking into account proper ticket structure, overlays any of that kind of stuff.

It was like, I’m going to pick a, I think a, B and C or who can win the both. So I’m going to put a, B and C on there, even if they’re three to five, six to five, two to one. Uh, and so I, and I, I think that. Was not helpful as far as my, my gambling career, but yeah. Honestly, it wouldn’t matter. Like I said, I just, I just don’t have the off button.

I don’t have the discipline to do it, but I do definitely try to find myself now looking through the races and kind of seeing how, what I think is the most efficient way to map it out. W w how I think other people are going to play it. That’s one thing I never used to do is spend time thinking about.

How, how, I mean, how my competition is going to play a sequence. You know, that example I gave you the guy the other day, you know, if everybody’s singling the three to five shots, how am I going to make my ticket different so that if it hits, I’m rewarded with more money because, you know, You know, if I see guys all the time, like, Oh eight to one to start to sequence, it’s like, yeah, but that was the leg that everybody was going to be five or six deep.

You were five or six deep to get it. So now, you know, your equity going forward is the same as everybody else. Whereas if you single that horse, now you open up the rest of the sequence. Or if, you know, I mean, there’s just, there’s a lot different ways. I think about it now than I used to. Just before we get into the nuts and bolts of handicapping, what are you looking at data wise these days?

Uh, I’m a, I’m a breeze guy. I get I’m a company, man. No, I mean, it’s funny. I utilize, I. I’m very, I, I liked the optics program. I don’t subscribe to it because, you know, just spending money to have the data and not play. It is a little bit silly, but, um, when I have come across it and I’m friendly with Emily and John Doyle who worked there, I do think it’s a really good, valuable tool, particularly for pace and trip notes.

Um, and so when I, when I come across that I like to use it. I still, I, you know, I, I still, uh, look at DRF sub and I, but bruise is kind of my, my main thing. And I, and I’ve gotten to where. I watched for the circuits that I really follow. I actually watched quite a bit of replays. And a lot of that is just for the show because you kind of gotta know what’s going on.

And, uh, but a lot of it’s, you know, trip handicapping and just making notes for horses. Cause you know, I’ll, I’ll mention horses. I like on the show and you know, everybody on the show knows I’m not betting them, but I still think sometimes there’s horses worth, man. I mean, there’s a, the stakes that, uh, aqueduct on Saturday, toboggan that horse on the rail had like the most brutal trip of all time last weekend.

But. Once the horse got through it, didn’t really. Accelerate, like you kind of thought it was. And I was saying on the show, I go, I think people are going to bet this horse because the trouble was huge and it probably did make a difference in the finish. But I said, I didn’t see that horse necessarily take off like a rocket once it got free.

And Syndergaard is not exactly the world’s biggest. You know, a heart filled horse. So I think a lot of people are going to bet that horse off the trip. And I think maybe it’s one to kind of stay away from. Let’s talk about these races at fairgrounds. We’re going to start, we’re going to look at four races.

We’ll start off with the ninth, this, uh, Louisiana stakes, a mile and a 16th on the dirt. Jason, as our guest, we’ll have you start off before we bring in JK for his thoughts. Well, what I think is so interesting about this race is your morning line. Favorite is a horse who has not finished the course in two of the last five races.

And if you go back a sixth, race was six beat 19. Uh, so essentially ease, uh, and that’s honorable duty. Who’s on the outside. Now, the other three races are, are decent. There’s a win for optional a hundred and then a second, a third at grade one and grade three level. But it seems like. You know, there’s some big question marks on this horse, but you know, and then some of the finishes, those are in tough races, but I don’t know, taking a short price on a horse that has big question marks to me is always, uh, a no go.

Now the horse loves the fairgrounds is three for three. And, you know, that’s certainly something to think about. But again, to me, when it comes to favorites, particularly ones that might be solid favorites. Uh I’m I’m immediately looking for question marks to avoid the horse and, and not reasons to go for it.

So I thought it was interesting in the sense that. I had, there was a favor in this race that I don’t like, which to some degree to me means I don’t necessarily have to be right with one horse because if I’m, you know, I can pick two or three, because now I’m getting prices on all three of them. Makes perfect sense.

And if you, if I put your feet to the fire and made you, uh, make a selection of one of those three that you like the best, who would you come up with? The, uh, I, I kinda like, uh, the brand tax horse a little bit pioneer spirit, uh, was finished third last time, but Brad Cox horses, you know, they, they run and, uh, the horse has just gotten to the fairgrounds for the first time in that race.

And, uh, the tenacious. So I don’t know, I just thought the horse was worthy of some improvement. Uh, Brett Calhoun is really, really cold down there. This me, I kinda, I wanted to like silver dust is coming in off a couple of wins. Um, But Calhoun’s Barnes kind of Chile. And so I ended up, uh, if I had a top picks quote, unquote, it would probably be the four.

And then the three fat man was kind of my thing makes sense. And I liked the way you approach it in terms of sometimes your opinion of the race is more to be anti the favorite. Then for the selection, because it’s a podcast, we force you to make a selection basically, so we can claim it if you win enlightened self-interest here.

But, uh, I, I gotta, I gotta, I gotta read board alert by show. Anytime I read board, I played the hunt. Good ran board. I learned, okay. I think we need that around here. J K how do you see it, man? I, I actually love the horse that the Jason doesn’t like an honorable duty, you know? Um, he had mentioned back in 2017, uh, the horse had some races where he was, he came back and still ran really well.

Um, you know, I actually bet him that day in the marathon, uh, in the breeders cup, I’ve made it actually a pretty, I was alive to him for a lot of money in the, in the, in the breeders cup betting challenge. I thought that he would be forwardly placed going that. Whatever it is 14 furlongs and he just, that race was not for him.

And he just absolutely stopped. Um, he was vanned off that day. Obviously. I think it was the distance that caused the problem. The fact that he shows up back here. I’m in this spot tells me that he’s probably, you know, he’s probably okay. Brendan Walsh is, is not, uh, one of the trainers that we, uh, we kind of put in the, in the delinquent category of some of the trainers that we have, where we, we think they’re up to.

No good. I think Brendan Walsh would do do right by this gilding. If he wasn’t going in the right direction, I think he’ll be fine here. And I think he gallops, I love the horse in the spot. Anything multi-racial wise. Uh, I would try to single here and get out alive. Obviously Harland punch for Cox makes a little bit of sense to a second switching to his barn, but, uh, I like double duty.

We’re developing a  on the show. It’s really been for a long time. We bring in a guest who makes an excellent contrarian opinion against the favorite JK picks at anyway. Well, I mean, it was, and the thing is if he’s singling and if he’s right, he, you know, he’ll, he’ll be the one that’s rewarded. And, and I mean, the horse really isn’t either, or right.

I mean, you do have to really either kind of love him or hate him. Right. Right. And I also think that that, that I was a little bit annoyed by the morning line, because I feel like a horse who’s been kind of, you know, quote unquote, ease in his last two starts. You know, or his last start, we don’t. Why is he the favorite?

You know, that’s all, I’m hoping that he actually drifts a little bit, you know, I, I could see, uh, I could see a Harlan punch for Brad Cox actually going off favored, uh, or maybe, you know, someone else, you know, maybe I don’t know, anyone could, could possibly go off favored, uh, outside of honorable duty. So I’m hoping he drifts now these four to five, three to five.

I’d probably jump on the Jason van wagon of trying to find some value elsewhere, but I think he could be ignored just a little bit. All right. Let’s move on to race 10, the Colonel Bradley, we’re moving to the turf course mile and a 16th JK. We’ll keep it with you. You know, looking at the, uh, the last race that a lot of these are coming out of the one that great wide open one, and the pace was really slow.

I was trying to find an alternative to the great wide open who kind of set that easy. He goes easy fractions. Uh, big changes is one that I don’t want. He was close enough that if he was good enough, he could have ran by and the same with, uh, sir Dudley digs. I mean, I think that the great wide open is the most likely winner he’s tactical he’s forward.

All of those things that you want to see in these turf races, where a lot of times they’re grabbing. If I was going to look for an alternative one that presents a lot of value, I think the five team colors who was trying to, he was actually the one that was the furthest back, trying to close into those slow fractions.

Did the grade wide open? Uh, it had last time. So in a contest format, I’d look to try to play a horse, like team colors when it comes to multi race, uh, wagers, I think I’d probably try to put 60 to 75% of my money through the great wide open and then maybe spread a little bit with the remaining percentage.

Uh, most of it focused on team colors for, uh, for selection purposes. I’m going to take the horse. It’s going to be loose on the lead in great wide open, but I definitely would take a team colors into consideration. All right. Interesting, interesting. I was sure you were going with team colors as your topic there, but that’s more of the tournament one, because you think the pace advantage potentially to great for great wide open.

Jason, how do you, Peter, I’m sure you guys have run into this before. Have you ever had guests on your show where they talk about a horse with such passion, uh, that you ended up, they basically talked you into it. Oh, absolutely. That, that was kind of what happened to me with Michael Bay. Jack the other day was great wide open because he was just, he was defying over or not going fine, but he was just, he was loving how good he thought that last race was.

And, you know, for the horse. The horse is clearly better on the leave, right? I mean, you look at the races where he does it to get to that lead and they don’t end up very good. And the ones where he’s on the lead, he runs pretty big. And, uh, I just think he holds a pretty strong advantage of the horse to the outside that the Brad Cox horse, uh, has some speed, but it it’s it’s dirt speed.

You have to go back quite a ways to see what the horses Terp pace was. And interestingly enough, the other tox runner is. Kind of a forward, the place one, right? Big changes is probably going to be the one right in behind those ones. So I’m curious what. Pioneer spirit does, because I think that affects whether or not a big changes or somebody else comes and runs down this horse because, uh, it seems like great wide opens just one who is really relishing things right now and is really digging on the fairgrounds.

And I think the outside draw allows them to kind of see what people are going to do, but I don’t think there’s much scene that’s going to happen. I think they’re just going to go to the front and, uh, and catch me if you can. Yeah. It’s interesting. Looking at that horse, you referred to Jason pioneer spirit on the outside.

I would. Think he’d have no choice, but to go J K what do you think, do you think Jeru is going to make things a little difficult for great wide open there? Or do you think he’s going to grab, or do you think great wide opens early paces such that it’ll just won’t even matter? Well, I think a lot of times when you’re trying to figure that out, uh, one of the things that I like to do is look to see who the ownership groups are.

Uh, you know, when Baffert has to weigh in, it’s like, well, Baffert is not going to use a Zaire horse as a rabbit. For a Gary and Mary West horse like that, you can’t do that. But you know, in these situations like this, where it’s the same ownership group, you would think that they would do that. I would think pioneer spirit would be pretty aggressive, especially from that outside post, but the way that great wide open kind of shut off and kicked home on the last two, I don’t see that as necessarily being an issue.

If a horse. Can get loose in a soft paste race, then that typically tells you that they’ll, they’ll slow down and come into hand. Um, and that they’re rate-able horses. It’s the runoffs that are the ones that you gotta be careful about. Uh, I think the great wide open I’ll sit right off of pioneer spirit goes or a great wide open we’ll go.

I don’t think it’ll make a difference. Gotcha. All right. Let’s go on to race 11, the silver bullet day. One of my favorites from back in the day, uh, she was really cool. Philly. Jason, we’re going to start with you on this group of three-year-old fillies. How do you see it? Well, this has been such a good division down there over the years.

It’s crazy. The three-year-old fillies that have come out of it and the next race and the sequence is, uh, is Rachel Alexandra steaks. And she was one of them. Um, I didn’t, I think that there’s any world beaters in here, I’m really intrigued by the seven horse, Mandy blue, uh, just because of what they, they started her at Indiana.

Broke the maiden coming from off the paste, sprinting on the dirt. And then they stretch out on the turf and she runs a pretty big effort and wins going away for optional 50. And I always love, you know, for these, these younger horses, I like seeing them make that instant jump. To the allowance or States where, so we see so many big maiden winners and then a lot of them just don’t come back as they get headed or what have you.

And so now the horse is going to stretch out on the dirt. It makes me think that maybe they didn’t re because they started in Indiana because they tried the turf last time. Makes me wonder if they’ve, if this horse has just been overachieving in the afternoons, like maybe they didn’t think they had this much horse and now they’re kind of like, Hey, maybe we got a good one here.

Let’s take a crack with it. So I’m really intrigued by that particular runner. And I don’t love. The catalog snow horse. That’s the favorite? Uh, I mean, obviously, you know, the, it has a class advantages when a grade two last time out, but a lot changes. It seems like in those couple of months, between the end of two year old, nearly three-year-old.

And so I think, you know, either the rail horse or need supervision or somebody might. Kind of go with that one. So I’m hoping the seven is, is something and, uh, might, uh, continue to, uh, go on the upswing seven, Mandy blue for Jason. Also a look at number one fun finder. I am with you just looking quickly through the PPS about not particularly wanting to trust.

Number four, uh, Lee aura, or number five, need supervision, both listed on the lower end of the OD spectrum. Who’s your selection in here? JK. I agree with the four and the five in both of those could probably gal, but I want to try to get cute and beat them here. Um, the Wayne catalog winning the golden Ron, last time, those horses seem to always be over bet.

Um, the horses that win those two year old steaks, the jockey club and the, uh, you know, and I think it’s the Kentucky jockey club or whatever it is. And then the golden rod, you know, Mandy blue, I agree is interesting. I won’t talk about her too much. Jason covered a lot of the things about her. One thing I will say.

Is, let’s not forget that Brad Cox is going to hold up a trophy for a filly that he started on the turf. That’s going to win three-year-old filly on the dirt and Monomoy girl. Right. So I wouldn’t look too much into that. And I’m trying to, you know, usually I would fatal horse like this, but with Brad Cox, it’s kinda making me, uh, making me be a little bit more forgiving.

I think the one that, that I was interested in, and this is a horse, it’s not typically one that, that like I can gravitate towards. I, you know, I’m a speed figure guy. But fun finder down on the rail. Those even kind of runs where they, it feels like they’re just kind of clipping twelves around there. The one term mile at Gulf stream drew the rail here.

Can you make peak kg as ever with these types of situations? Down on the inside could inherit the lead and then they just got to, you know, now you got to find out which one of these newly turned three-year-old fillies wants to pass, uh, other horses. And I think she presents a bunch of, a bunch of value.

I would spread here in a, in a, in a, in a multi-racial situation, probably one, five, six, seven, Uh, the one in the seven present, the most value. I’d take the seven though, as my selection. Okay. I was going to ask you to clarify, so I’m glad you did, uh, the, the, the panel sees that one the same. All right. We’ve got a few minutes left and we’ve got one more race to talk about.

We’re on the triple crown trail. Now Fela’s the lockup grade three mile and 70 and JK. We’re going to start with you. If you like a horse here, you’re a liar. This race is hard. Um, I think more of will end up being the favorite based on that kind of impressive run at Churchill and the slop, which was, was a weird race in general.

I think that was closing day at Churchill, uh, when they had that mandatory pick six payout. Um, but world will, I think will probably be the favorite. I’m going to try to get away. From from that horse. Um, there’s two words that have caught my attention. The first one is, is tight 10. Uh, you know, the two year olds that run these kind of faster numbers, I think they always translate well.

When, when they’re turning into three, I think Duke Matisa said he, you could expect maybe 10 to 12 points of an increase based on what a horse could run when they were two. Um, if you look at tight 10, that could be a pretty big jump that could make this one tough to beat. Steve asked mucin doesn’t need any introductions.

My kind of sneaky one is, is the two horse down on the inside. I think it’s a mile pace. The one that pays figure is kind of backwards like that. And if you look at time for U S where they ran really fast, early sprinting, I think it just shows a lot of ability that a lot of energy was, was, was probably used early in the race.

It shouldn’t have been in with training maturity, that, that if that energy can be harnessed and B be used differently, you can kind of see those big jump ups. The horse is obviously tactical, uh, will be able to save ground on the inside. I think that one’s a little bit sneaky and interesting as a horse that could be forwardly placed.

And could show, uh, show up, you know, going that two turns for the first time I’m going to pick tight 10 as my selection, but, uh, for the record, if you’re playing any, any picks, I definitely wouldn’t use the two as well. I think what you’re talking about about projecting figure improvement. It’s not like it magically happens between two or three.

You’ve got to look at what month it happened in, and then maybe be able to project a couple of points improvement for a month, but a horse who was talented enough to be running a 79 in the summer. Then you take, you know, three months of winter improvement, 10 to 12. Sounds like a lot to expect here in the middle of January, but I mean, I think six or eight feels about right.

But the other thing, I think it’s important and, and, and, you know, maybe on the last show, we didn’t say this out loud. Um, and I, and trust me, I, I I’ve bought his book 10 times and sent it to friends about, Hey, you need to learn about speed figures, but buyer with two-year-olds. If a number comes back too fast, he will project that down.

You know, the same thing he did with bolt D’oro it’s like, well, bolt D’oro. If he ran this fast, he’s the fastest two year old ever. So I can’t do that. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna project the number down a little bit. So you gotta be careful if a horse who was, you know, earned a 65 there there’s, there could be a little bit of projection in that it could have really been a 72 73, 74.

So that’s one of the reasons I think you can see the big jumps is, is a lot of times I think filmmakers are a little bit hesitant to do that. And I think Craig Milkulski even does a little bit of it. Not too much. Um, but, but a little bit of it, we can, we can ask them next time we have them on. Yep, absolutely go.

All good people to have on the show by or Duke Matisse and the Craig Milkulski Jason, bring us home here for the . How do you see it? I I’m a similar to the Johnson’s original thought in the sense that I, there was nobody who I was just thinking like, man, this thing’s going to jog. And I love his points on Titan Titan to like such a brutal trip in that breeders kept too.

I mean, I think he hit the rail and it looked like he was just massively uncomfortable in the early stages. And that obviously led to the not great late stages. The other words coming out of the juvenile I thought was a little bit interesting as far as Mr. Money, just because. You know, th the, you beat nine and a half lengths, and obviously there’s no game winner or next go in here.

We don’t think, uh, but to me, this horse, at least to the quarter pole kind of looked like it was traveled okay. With the rest of those. So I’m a little interested in Mr. Money, but I’m going to super bomb here. I’m going to the five night ops for Keith. DeSorbo a maiden. So that’s certainly a big question, Mark.

I know they’ve had some rain there in the last couple of days and fairgrounds, and I know it might rain again on Saturday. Uh, I think that maybe move this horse up, uh, the horse that beat him in my ear kind of had a perfect, just first have to use a harness term and we get I’m in harness mode right now, but kind of had the hurt, had the first over trip last time.

And, uh, this one came running and I just thought ran a pretty nice race in the slop last time. Uh, the big log fairground stretch. There’s a few in here that. Look like they’re a little bit speedy and you know, and it’s, it’s newly turned. Three-year-old’s going to turn. So I just, I thought in a race where I didn’t love anybody, I think.

My, my brain tells me to go for price. And I think this one’s going to be a big one. I like it. It’s a compelling case. Jason, thank you so much for all of your insights and handicapping, and also just sharing some of your story. We did not talk about your book at all. Want people to know about that as well?

It’s called southbound. Where can people find it? Uh, it’s, uh, most of your online book, really? Tailors Barnes and noble and Powells. Uh, and, uh, uh, what’s the big one, the Amazon, all three of that plate. Peter, have you ever been to pals books in Portland? Yeah. One of the best independent bookstores in the country.

In the world? Probably. Yeah. It’s a magical place. I’ve seen some cool. Readings out there and it’s, it’s a must go to when you’re in Portland. I mean so much great stuff I can tell. I can, I can tell you one of the greatest moments in my life was seeing my book on the shelf in pals. I, I remember the first time I saw that.

I mean, I just was ready to lose it and I think I brought like five consecutive, first dates to pals after that. Oh, they have my book. That’s cool. But how, I didn’t know that already. Yeah. We just happened to be walking you through the B section of a literal yes. Yes. Southbound is available. Uh, a lot of horse players have told me they enjoy it.

So, uh, uh, I hope they would check it out. Okay. Stuff for more from Jason beam right away. You want to check out this year as the fifth annual beamy awards, you can check him out at BME awards on Twitter. You can also hear him. On the bat America radio network, easiest way for folks to find the pod, probably same as you guys, wherever you find your podcasts, but a better america.com/barn is a good, a direct link, but the iTunes, Freaker, Stitcher, iHeart, all that, all that, all those ways.

I have noticed that it’s always tended to be very Apple. Heavy on our downloads. So I don’t know if people just love iTunes and Apple, or it seems like a lot of people listen on their phone. It’s easy. That’s true for you guys as well. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of direct stuff from SoundCloud is our host.

We get a lot from SoundCloud, but iTunes is most of the market for sure. Um, and the convenience of it on there. Make sense. So please subscribe. Uh, and Jason, I’d love to have you back on the show too. And if you’re ever hard up for a guest, I bet JK or I could help you out. Well, Peter, we’ve already, we’ve already talked about that.

We know there will be some in, uh, in the money, a presence on the barn. Short. Beautiful. Beautiful. All right. I want to thank Jonathan kitchen. I want to thank Jason beam. One more time when to thank DJ unstable for his continued technical support, but most of all, I want to thank all of you. The listeners you make the show so much fun to do.

Hey. If you haven’t done our survey yet, I’m going to leave it live for a couple more days and then call it a wrap. We’re getting some great information. It’s helping me out tremendously. I’m going to leave a link on the next blog. I’ll put it right@thetopinthemoneypodcast.com go there and you can click on the link and please take our survey.

Also if you’re really feeling froggy and want to jump and help us out, go ahead and go to iTunes, leave a review, leave a review. Wherever you can subscribe to the blog in the money podcast.com. We’ve had a tremendous amount of support from listeners during this transitional period. And we appreciate the support.

Again, you are the ones who make the show so fun to do. We love hanging out here with you two times a week and are going to continue to do so. Uh, for the indefinite future on the, in the money players podcast. And that’s all we got, we will be back next week. I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. May you win all your photos.