Monster Pod Kentucky Derby Preview

It’s the Monster Pod Kentucky Derby Preview: 23 horses, 23 horse people.

Pat Cummings on Plus Que Parfait (2:40)

Frank McGoey on War of Will (9:00)

George Weaver on Vekoma (15:00)

Rajiv Maragh on Haikal (21:40)

Rich Averill on Win Win Win (27:45)

Anthony Stabile on Tacitus (36:00)

Tim Carroll on Master Fencer (44:25)

Frank Mustari on Bodeexpress (49:10)

Hudson Davis on Signalman (52:50)

Michelle Yu on Game Winner (56:50)

Nancy Holthus on Omaha Beach (1:03:40)

Britney Eurton on Roadster (1:11:00)

John Nichols on By My Standards (1:20:00)

Clay Sanders on Long Range Toddy (1:25:00)

Benny Southstreet on Spin Off (1:30:00)

Sean Boarman on Maximum Security (1:34:00)

Sean Tugel on Improbable (1:40:00)

Chris Pipito on Code of Honor (1:46:45)

Duke Matties on Country House (1:52:35)

Grant LaGrange on Tax (1:58:30)

Jason Beem on Cutting Humor (2:03:50)

Ed DeRosa on Anothertwistafate (2:08:05)

Aron Wellman on Gray Magician (2:13:45)

Prefer to read it?  See below.

***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

You’re listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome. This is a special unnumbered edition of the in the money players podcast. It’s the monster pod, Kentucky Derby preview. Absolutely the longest show wherever going to have done by a wide margin. Really excited. I’m your host, Peter Thomas for Nitel back with you in the Brooklyn bunker joined today by my co-host.

Really? Who gets credit for this cool idea? He’s the people’s champion. Jonathan kitchen. What’s up JK PTF. No, it’s uh, it was a nice reminder. How much fun? The NTRA NHC preview was we had a bunch of individuals coming on to share their opinion about all things in HCI, and it kind of spurred the idea how much fun it would be to have, uh, a bunch of various guests on to talk about each individual runner of the Kentucky Derby.

We appreciate that people like to hear what we have to say. And some people don’t obviously, uh, so we thought we’d, uh, we’d, we’d kind of mix in some of our other guests brought back some. Some superstars that, that people love to see. We have a little rich Avril who, uh, made a lot of people, a lot of money, Tampa Bay, Derby day.

We’ve got Frank McGaughey who tells the best stories and racing. We’ve got a jockey. A trainer. We’ve got a lot of fun stuff ahead for you. We’re looking forward to getting everybody involved. I’m not going to start listing names cause I’ll have to go through all of them. That’s how good this roster of assembled talent is, you know, something old, something new, something borrowed something blue.

I’ll let you figure out which is which, but we probably shouldn’t dilly dally too much here. JK, we got a lot of content coming up. This is a very long show as is anything else you want to say to tee this one up? Or should we just get right to the good stuff? Let’s get to the good stuff. I think it’d be fun.

If everyone, uh, if you’re listening to this, grab your, your Twitter machine retweet, quote your, your pick for the Derby. I mean, obviously we’re not going to hold you to it. Uh, retweet this thing and, and give us your, your pick. And if you need three horses, give us all three. Uh, we’re not gonna hold you to it.

Obviously the draw hasn’t happened yet, but let’s get this conversation going. Let’s start, uh, hearing who everybody likes. I love that idea. And the show starts right now. And now here to talk about plus co parfait. I believe I’m saying that correctly, we’ll get the Francophones to, uh, to let me know.

Otherwise is our friend from the thoroughbred idea foundation and a fine horse player in handicapper in his own right. Pat Cummings, Pat, what’s going on. Hey guys, not too much. Uh, it’s a unique situation, kind of have this horse in the Derby because it’s the first time we’ve ever seen an American go to Dubai and qualify for the Kentucky Derby as such point.

What did we know about this horse before he went over? What did we learn about him that day? What did you think of the overall quality of the UAE Derby? The funny thing was, he was really kind of a disappointment in his three-year-old season. Um, this is a horse who went into kind of a winter season in new Orleans as a horse who really looked like he was kind of on the rise at a really good run at, uh, Churchill in the, in the Kentucky jockey club at the end of their fall meet.

And, and he shows up in the LA Compton, the risen star and was incredibly well backed in big fields and, and really didn’t. Put forward much of an effort. Now he had some trips in both of those races, but the geek was kind of up. And I think Brendan walls realized that if we’re going to do this, we kind of have to take a different approach.

And with the ownership of this horse being based mostly in Dubai, They decided to take the UAE Derby route and, and, and, you know, rightly so, uh, get the points that they could and, and they certainly did. How good do you think that race was? Do you think there’s any chance that this UAE Derby form gives horses like gray magician or cup parfait?

Any chance. Well, we’re, we’re basically an uncharted territory. Like I, like I suggested before, so never before have we had an American trained horse based in the States go over and qualify for the Kentucky Derby as such. So all of the past experience and all of the past dialogue certainly comes up during a Derby discussions about how this race has not produced a horse to even run in the money.

Um, I think that kind of goes out the window a little bit, because those horses where we’re trained by people like Simon soror or Mike macaque or, uh, or Aiden O’Brien. And so, so they’re all coming in with a very different kind of picture and a different, a different element now, to be fair. I don’t think there’s any question that the three-year-old dirt crop is bettering Dubai this year than it ever has been.

Unfortunately, um, And they’ve actually been running more dirt races than pretty much ever before for three-year-olds only, unfortunately the biggest kind of comparison horse or the form horse to compare anyone’s performance to, she didn’t show up at all in the race, divine image. She finished next to the last and she was the horse that had kind of, you know, run the table, um, in the UAA yolks and, and beat the boys in the best Akia, which is the prep for the UAE Derby.

So. That said it’s very difficult to compare  phase performance, uh, to, to really anybody else other than the other American who comes out of the race in green magician, I will say this though, fellas, there was one big change to plus cup. Our fake got blinkers on for the first time in the UAE Derby. Um, granted he had a very, very kind of comfortable, cozy trip, saving a lot of ground, which a horse like great magician did not do in that race at all.

But there was a very clear change, uh, in equipment and, uh, provided that stays. Um, I think there is a chance that, you know, this horse could be a little bit better on paper than people would necessarily be thinking about a UAE Derby chance. Pat, you mentioned that the comfy cozy tripped down on the inside.

Um, I was kinda in and out watching the Dubai racing this, uh, this, this year. And I know in the years past the track can get a little bit inside bias. Did you think there was a bias on the day because that would obviously make a huge impact on, on how good that race actually was? If the rail was good, uh, he was down there quite a bit.

That’s a great point, Jonathan. Um, the, for, for observers, Dubai racing, who typically kind of, uh, you know, catch that one big day a year. Um, there have been plenty of times in the past where, where the track has been notably favoring to certain types of trips, uh, or, or forwardly placed horses to be completely honest this year, this whole entire season has been.

Very very fair. Um, the track has shown small little bits of bias here and there. Maybe favoring speed horses or favoring insight a little bit here or there, but, um, nothing dramatic. Like we may have seen in, in previous years. I know that that was quartered a lot for Mendelssohn’s big win in the race of the year prior, uh, when thunder snow kind of went in and did what he did then in the Dubai world cup.

But, um, I would say, um, There was nothing noticeable. That was, was very clearly obvious, uh, throughout the season. Uh, it played very fair, fair than I’ve ever seen it. The dirt playing in Dubai before, uh, it was a very even keeled season. And so I don’t think that had a beak, a big factor. Um, They any bias, but I will say that simply his trip was far better than the other horse that’s coming out of the race, which is great magician who just covered an interminably wide, uh, trip in, in, in the race and, and still kept coming agree with the concept, Pat that while the inside was worth something that day ground loss did matter.

It did not seem at all like that track from a year previous. All right. We can’t, we’re running out of time here with you, Pat. So I’m just going to put your feet to the fire from here. And obviously you, you know, we’re, we’re many days out, you have the right to change your mind from here, but from where you sit right now, do you imagine seeing either  or gray magicians name slash numbers on your tickets come Derby day?

I do think I’ll have them on my tickets. I’m a big, super effective player in the Derby. Uh, it offers such a great opportunity. I will have them in probably the third and fourth spots. I don’t know if I’ll necessarily have, uh, many tickets, if any, with them on top or in the second spot. But, uh, amongst this group of forces having Donna mile and three sixteenths already and shown an ability to kind of overcome some.

Some issues in some big fields. Uh, I think both of them have a chance to, to land a slice of the pie. Thank you so much, Pat Cummings and now making his triumphant return to the, in the money. Airway is very popular guest here to talk about war of will. Frank McGaughey what’s up Frank. Getting excited. Good time of the year, jazz Fest, Kentucky Derby.

I just don’t know which way to turn. I can hear the music and I can smell the money in a year. It’s unbelievable. When are you making me me right now? Peter asks it’s good to be. Oh, I believe. When is it not Frank, but when do you make your way to Churchill? I’ll be leaving next Tuesday. Um, and that’s a ritual.

That’s uh, that’s a, a drive up. Um, uh, I usually play the entire card, stopped us and barbecue at Birmingham and, uh, and plenty of tie a card on the way up. And then I’ll be on the backside Wednesday morning, watching them train, looking for clues. That’s the idea. Yep. That’s it. Let’s talk about this war of Wil.

You talked about how well he was training heading into the last race, and then we all saw the incident early on. It looked like he lost his action behind. What do you make of a performance like that to prep a horse for the Kentucky Derby? Very inopportune because, uh, I’ve kinda got a rule. And I think if research would back it up, uh, the Derby one had done take any missteps right.

Between January and may and especially not five weeks out. So, I mean, listen, I trust that that Cassie’s going to have him as good as he can possibly have him going into the Derby. Um, I totally understand. You want to take that chance? I mean, you got the points to be in it. You’re only a three-year-old once, but, um, I don’t think it’s a positive sign at all.

And from what I’ve seen of him training at Keelan, he doesn’t look like he definitely doesn’t look like he’s moved forward off of the way he was working at fairgrounds. Um, he doesn’t seem like he’s filled out much more. It looks like he’s moving. Okay. But I, he had, he was gonna need to have to take a step up anyway.

And then, you know, as the prep season unfolds, you get a chance. And I got a chance because they Evangela down, it’s canceled this past weekend. So I had some time to do some extra work. Um, and so I did a lot of work on the Derby this past weekend and went back and watched just about every horses. Race that’s in every race.

They had every horse in the Derby and you know, what got me when I was going over war will is as the prep season unfolds, you get this sense of the horses. He was probably dominating courses like hog Creek Kusile, Manny  country house, locally owned. Um, they just haven’t turned out to be the top notch or the top of their generation.

And so he was probably a little bit overrated with some good trips. And with that bump in the road, you know, in the Louisiana Derby. Um, I think there’s probably a Derby up there with Kathy’s name on it, but I don’t think it will be this year. Fair enough. It doesn’t sound like he’ll be anywhere on your tickets come the first Saturday and he will not be, will not be.

No. Nope. That’s my thinking. He was a simple X. Wow. While we have you all go ahead. Since more than most of the guests we’re having on this particular show, sounds like you’ve had a chance to do an overview of the race. Have you landed on your Derby horse yet? I haven’t landed on my Derby horse, but, but I mean, it kind of seems like we’re in a pattern, you know, I think that there’ll be one, uh, is based out of California.

Again, I’d be surprised if he’s not. Um, and I mean, so Omaha beach is, is obviously to me it looks like the worst to be now. I mean, he’s got tactical speed, looks like he’s got some gears, like the way that he was able to make up his first move in the Arkansas Derby and then shut it down a little bit and relax.

And then, you know, when he asked him to go again, he went and he went strong and he galloped out strong. Um, Improbable on the other hand, doesn’t look like a horse to me. That’s going to get better going to Mount a quarter. So of the three Baffert horses. Um, he is the one that I’m least favor, um, think Roadsters, probably getting good at a good time right now.

And, uh, I have a tendency to believe. I think it was probably an easier decision than maybe Mike Smith would lead on, but I I’m sure it was a decision because I think Rosewood definitely has potential. And I think, you know, game one is a fighter. He’s a fighter and he’s been battle tested. He’s got to win over Churchill.

He’s not going to give it up easy. So, um, you know, not the new California Debby one, uh, probably in my eyes. All right, Frank, we’re going to let you go now, but we’re going to check in with you if you don’t mind late next week after you’ve had a chance to see some of these beasts train over the Churchill surface.

Absolutely. I’m going to ask a favor of you guys to whatever you need in the social media gurus that you are. I need y’all to stir up a story and create like a patch or my boy Jack for this year that can catch fire. That has no chance. You know, I’d love that. I’d love to look up and see a horse. It should be 90 to one at 15 to one.

And I’ll give you all the credit. If you do. I know you got it in you. I know kitchen does. That sounds like a job for JK. I’m looking at the look at the list right now. I’m trying to find a. It was trying to get all the Trump supporters to, to bet on code of honor, you know, tell them it’s like patriotic things and, you know, cover them in American flag blanket.

I bet we can get some people going on that. Oh, you’re a too much. I love God. I love that horse to run somewhere. But anyway, I actually, I think he’s got a, he’s got a shot to hit the port too. Not him, not him. JK. All right, Frank, we’ll let you go, but we’ll be talking very soon. All right guys, take care. See you in Louisville.

And now we’d like to welcome to our airwaves, the trainer of Tacoma, George Weaver, George, how are you doing today? I’m doing well. Thank you. Thank you for taking time out of what must be a very busy schedule. We know you’ve had the coma for his whole career. Would love to hear about how he got to this point where his journey in racing started and how things are looking now.

First of all, we’re real happy, happy with the Colt he’s, um, he’s trained very well. And we bought the horses a year late last year at the Keeneland September sale. And, you know, based on what he’s done so far, they’re pretty moderate price. And, um, you know, the horse has been straight forward the whole time.

He’s a late baby. I didn’t get him until late June of last year. My body and friend in Ocala, Steven OSA broke him and. You know, he had given, given me very good reports about it before I ever saw him, uh, at the racetrack. So, you know, he always act like an athlete when we got him in, you know, he, everybody had got on them, you know, they came back and they said, man, this is a really nice Colt.

And he’s just got a great demeanor about him. And when we asked him to, uh, pick up the speed, he, um, he made us happy. You know, we were very, very, very happy with what we were seeing when we asked them to breeze. You and you show him some gas. And that that speed in the morning has translated to speed in the afternoon as well.

When did you first start thinking this might be a horse who’d run in the Kentucky Derby? Well, you know, he’s out of a spice town there in the bottom side, that one, the Humanitas tab at seven eight. So I wasn’t, um, you know, I wasn’t a hundred percent convinced early on that, that he necessarily could, could go two turns or get the distance.

There’s nothing about the horse, you know, the way horse trains that made me think that I was just looking at his pedigree. Sure. But he’s just kind of taking his trial. You know, he broke his maiden first time out going six and one Oh eight and change. That was a, you know, a pretty stylish, uh, debut, maiden win.

And then, you know, the next step was we tried them going a mile. And, um, when he wanted to Nashua, uh, as well as he did and with the number he ran, I was like, well, he, you know, he’s clearly not just a six for a long horse. He can at least get a mile. So, um, we gave him a break after that the horse was immature and I, you know, I didn’t want to burn him up and not be in a position to participate in the triple crown races.

So we gave him a little bit of a break and when we brought them back, we had, you know, we put them in the fountain of youth and that was a tall order, you know, um, more than a four month layoff and, um, you know, trying to turn for the first time, but he ran welling up there to go to the next one. And I mean, we couldn’t be more pleased than, uh, than we are with how he ran in the bluegrass.

It was, um, you know, he won authoritatively. We picked the race out, cause it looked like the easiest one on paper, but we needed a points and, um, You know, so, but he got the job done. He was, uh, you know, he was impressive as any horse running. I thought in the, in the, perhaps leading up to this race, he looked terrific.

I did want to ask you about the stretch run of that race. He has sort of an unusual action. Is that anything that gives you pause about the distance, going back to those initial concerns on the pedigree? Or is that not something that worries you. I’m not really concerned about the, the action look, that’s the way he moves.

And he’s just a runner, you know? Um, it won’t be the action that keeps him from getting them out on a quarter. You know what I mean? He either, you know, either I believe that the horse will be in the thick of it when they turn for home. And, uh, you know, after the three 16th ball is going to be up to the good man upstairs, some racing, what happens, I’m not concerned about the action, affecting his ability to get the distance.

George, you had 10 senders, your first Derby starter back in 2015. What, uh, what did you learn from that experience that you’re going to take into the 2019 Derby with, uh, 10 centers, a very different, very different horse of the coma. The coma is very fast and you know, like, I don’t think 10 cent or whatever one going six furlongs.

He just, you know, that wasn’t the type of horse. He was, he was a big rangey Colt, and, um, you know, more of a, more of a stay or more of a grinder. And, um, I think the big thing with him is, and I, you know, I think there’s a, a bunch of different ways to approach it and you need some luck, but I, I took 10, send her in there thinking he needed to work over the track.

And I thought that, um, We got them a few days and breathed them a week out. But I thought that the horse got a little jammed up, you know, he was, um, I thought the track kind of jammed him up there for the time that he was there. And if I could do it over, I would’ve probably come in, come in either earlier or later, uh, this particular for Coleman this year where we took him back to our base at Palm beach downs.

And, um, we’re gonna prep them there. Why was trying to work on Friday? We’ll fly up on Tuesday and have four days at the track. And hopefully it works out for us, but I think that, um, You know, when 10 sender was there, besides the training part of it, you know, there’s just a lot of things that you, you know, you don’t know what’s coming that the press and this and that.

And so, um, you know, I haven’t done it. Haven’t, haven’t gone through it at least once it’s, I think it’s going to help with the. Experience, but I, I liked the, I liked the training plan that was come up with a coma and I’m very happy that we got it back at his home base and he’s doing very well. So hopefully it’ll work out for us at this point.

George, is there a, is there a, is there a draw where you’d like to see with Tacoma? I mean, do you, um, obviously there’s the, the, the, the spots we won’t name the weed. No one wants, but is there a, do you have an ideal spot for Tacoma just based on the kind of gate horse he is and, and what you’ve seen from him?

Well, he’s got good tactical speed. I think if he wanted it, you know, if you need to use it, he’s got as good, a tactical speed as anybody in the race. And the good thing about the horses it’ll turn off, you can ask him for it and then he’ll turn off. He’s not going to get on the bridal and expand them, you know, expend themselves.

So, I mean, I would prefer to be somewhere, you know, in a. Somewhere in between the five and nine, that’d be ideal. But, um, you know, I don’t really answer it. I don’t really anticipate him wherever he draws. I don’t anticipate him being a horse. That’s going to be behind horses and getting into traffic. You know, you should be in the first year going into the first turn, if things happen, like I think they’re going to happen.

So I don’t think it’s going to be too difficult. I mean, not nobody wants to be in the 20 hole, but you got along, you got along run down that. Down the front side of, to sort things out. And I mean, I don’t see why I don’t lie. I don’t see why he should have a bad position going into that first term. All right, George, thank you so much for taking time out of a busy day for us, we are rooting for you and wish you Godspeed and the Kentucky Derby and beyond.

All right. Thank you guys. Have a good one. Okay. And now we’re going to bring in the jockey of high call regive Mirage, Rajiv. How are you today? I’m good. Thank you. How are you guys doing great. So much fun to be talking to you. Get very excited about this. Year’s Kentucky Derby high calls, a horse that you’ve been sitting on since his second ever start the maiden breaker.

Curious what your first impressions of him were and how that’s changed over time as he’s become a contender for this year’s Kentucky Derby. Well, the first time I wrote him, he, um, he came a big strong finish to break his maiden. So that was very impressive. Um, The second time I wrote him, he improved into a stake race and came with another big finish.

So he was always had shown some good promise and, um, he just kept improving over the, each race that he ran. So, no we’re here going to the dirt. At what point did you think he might be a starter for you in the Derby

after winning to Jimmy Wingfield? He started to, um, Show that he’s going to be a serious stakes source, but, um, you know, it’s hard to say, you know, the horse is going to be in a Derby corn from a six for a long in seven sprints at, at aqueduct at that time of the year. And no, um, Into the therapy, but he just kept on performing better every time he ran.

So he earned his way here. We’re seeing a lot of horse players. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll say that that high calls kinda got, uh, advantageous trips, his last three with nice setups with, with pace in front of them. But, uh, I can’t think of a better person to ask than you who’ve been sitting on his back. What, what do you, did you feel like you had underneath you?

Did you feel like I’m a situation where you had more and you feel like he could continue to give more and he doesn’t necessarily need the setup? Or is high call the type of horse. It’s going to need a little bit of pace, uh, in order to get lucky on the first Saturday in may, surely he did get some good setups.

We got some good trips, which is, you know, when the race is unfolding, that’s what you try to do right in the race. Try to get a good trip. So things went well for him in his races, but he also delivered. What is run. So, um, I don’t want to think that he doesn’t have a big run and then if he doesn’t get a face in front of him, if he doesn’t get a big pace in front of him and we might just be sitting closer and it might even be beneficial to us.

But when the horse is signed up to run in the Derby so far, it seems that there’s going to be enough pace. So I’m expecting that there’ll be pace. Okay. There usually is, and this year should be no exception. Anytime you’re putting those 20 horses in the starting gate. I mean, obviously there have been exceptions, but usually the setup comes regive.

You’ve had success in the Kentucky Derby before a third place finish with a mucho macho man. How is riding in the Derby different than every other race from a writer’s perspective? What else there is just, I’m usually a little more. Variables a little more adversity due to the fact that there’s 20 horses and, um, which is not the case in most races every day that we ride.

So it makes for, um, you, you need to have some luck for things to go your way. But, um, other than that, you know, just ride it like any other race, just get comfortable and where he runs. Don’t try to change anything just to fit the therapy. That’s the way I feel anyways. Or Jeeva most of our listeners are probably familiar with the, uh, the injury you had in the recent past, where, uh, I would imagine that that getting back to the Derby was something that you weren’t even sure, whatever happened again.

So how does it feel to be leading up to 2019 Derby and knowing that you’re going to be participating. Well, it’s just, um, it’s very fulfilling and very rewarding for me because when I was injured, I was injured pretty severely. And, um, it was a little bit far-fetched for me to even come back to ride. And it took me, uh, 16 months from the day of my injury to have my first race, which is a long time to be out from writing.

And, um, The longer, the time went on it, it seemed like it got harder and harder that like I was going to go, come back to ride. And, um, thankfully I just, um, it worked out good that I could write again. And then to be able to go back to the. The biggest race in, in our industry. It’s just like a dream come true all over again.

That’s great. It’s one of the great stories heading into this year’s Derby. When you were out regive, how much racing did you watch day-to-day would you, did you watch the Derby that year, that you were out and, uh, and, and how much were you at plugged into the game at that point? Um, to be honest, not, not too much because, um, I’ll I was going through a lot physically and mentally, too.

It was hard because I had to be, um, doing therapy all the time and stuff, and I was in really bad physical shape. So I don’t know. I don’t even remember who won the Derby. I might’ve watched the Derby at that time. I don’t even remember who won the Derby where that was out. I’m pretty sure I did watch the Derby, but.

It’s all about, honestly, I don’t remember. It’s all about price. You had a lot of stuff to worry about and that determination and focus is, is why you’re back riding in the Derby this year. So, nothing to apologize for regive. When you think about this post position draw coming up next week, where do you, what number would you ideally want to see for yourself?

I don’t have a bad post from one to 20, um, because, um, my horse is going to be closer and, um, I don’t really there’s, there’s no real bad pose for him. I was thinking about that. Try to see, you know, what would be ideal. But, um, if for me, for anywhere from one to 20, I can see ways that it will be beneficial for me.

So. I don’t know, worried about that. I love the attitude. You have a winning attitude, my friend in all things, and we really appreciate you taking time out and coming on the show today. Thank you very much. All right. Thank you. Nice talking to you guys. Cheers. All right, now we’re going to welcome back another very popular guests to the, in the money.

Airwaves rich Avril horse owner, horse. Better. Extraordinary. How are you today? All as well on my way to Ocala, that’s a good place to be. That’s a good place for a horse racing person to be when we, when you were on the show last time, I believe we talked a little bit about this horse. Who’s going to be running in the Kentucky Derby by the name of win-win win.

Wanted to get your thoughts on his body of work. And what you think about him going into the Kentucky Derby. How did things get started for this horse? Well, um, I actually, uh, I actually liked the horse. Um, you know, I don’t know. I don’t know why, but it seems like he’s been really far back in his races. Um, you know, I think the question going in and with Derby was, you know, I don’t I’m driving, so I don’t know exactly his breeding, but I don’t think his breeding suggests that, you know, he’s like this big route distance horse, and, you know, he had sprinted in one, you know, basically won all his races except for one.

And, um, so they didn’t know if he would get the, you know, the two turns, but I mean now, uh, they put what they put, I think it was iRead on him and he, you know, he was, I was, I thought he was way too far back and it just didn’t really make any sense to me. And then the same thing in the, uh, in the bluegrass is this way too far back.

So I don’t understand why they had him, you know, so far back. And, and it’s just a lot for a horse to do. And, um, I, I believe that if them putting Pimintel back on that, hopefully he’s closer to the pace and then he could, uh, you know, he could, you know, he’s got a kick. So if you’re, you know, you’re close to the pace, I think he’s going to be able to finish strong.

And if you look at, and I don’t know what kind of handicapping tools that you use, but I know, I know a JK. You know, he uses some of the same stuff that I do. I mean, every race and this horse, his career, he has what’s called an upline. So I mean, every. At every point in every part of it is race at the quarter, at the half, at the six Furlong at the stuff, he goes up, his, his speed figures go up.

So I don’t think I’ve ever seen a horse do that. Like in their first five. I mean every single quarter of every single race. He gets faster. I’ll tell you what, when you look at the breeding and you just see hat trick on the top and miss smarty pants on the bottom, maybe you don’t, maybe it doesn’t exactly scream Derby, but then you go back to the next generation and you see names like Sunday, silence and smarty Jones.

The, there might be a logic to this horse finishing races as quickly as it suggests on, on your stuff. So it sounds like you want to see them get a different kind of trip in the Kentucky Derby. What kind of price do you think he’ll be? And how would you think about using them? Would this be a horse for third and fourth?

Or would this be a horse who you might think could the whole thing? Yeah, I mean, I’ll have him, I’ll have him, you know, I mean, I play a lot of multi-racial, so, um, You know, he’ll be, you know, I mean, he’s not going to beat me, you know what I mean? I’m going to go deep. So, um, you know, he’ll be in an, all my stuff.

I mean, yeah. I mean, I will, I’ll I’ll have him underneath and stuff. You know, maybe some horses that winter, I don’t, you know, he’ll just be in the mix. And I mean, it’s, I don’t think I’m, I mean, I’m not going to play him second and third and then he wins and then I look like an idiot. He’s going to be an, all my he’s going to be all my tickets.

All my pig pours all my pig buys and, you know, hopefully I’m alive, but I just don’t. I just, I mean, if you look at his races, um, you know, he he’s, he’s he’s, you know, like more links behind going to turns than he was when he was going six for longs and seven for long, it’s going to be a hard act to follow my last.

Uh, you did pretty well. The last time you were on the show. Yeah, no. So like, I mean, as first race going five and a half, he’s laying second. Yeah. Uh, you know that his x-rays, you know, going five and a half, he’s laying second. So, you know, then he’s going seven, eight and he’s fit by 10. So I don’t, I mean, I got a feel in there trying to teach him something, which it looks like they did, but I mean, in the bluegrass he’s 13.

I mean, come on. That’s a little ridiculous. And then the Tampa Kirby, he was. You know, seven, you know, it’s just, I don’t know. Like I said, maybe it wasn’t, I don’t know, is Iran overrating him? Like, what are they trying to teach them something to get them to this point? But I mean, teaching them something, you know, I mean, they almost missed out even getting to the, to the big dance.

So. You will see connections do that though. I think it’s point about maybe trying to teach him something. And this is a horse who can clearly shut off and finish. If he can use the tactical speedy showed earlier, shut off and finish, especially coming out of the bluegrass. You mentioned how far back he was.

And that was a day that certainly seemed like speed had at least somewhat of an advantage. Does that also factor in to how much you like this horse going forward? I mean, I didn’t think about that, but yeah. I mean, I think if anybody watched King Lynn, I mean, if there is a bias, I think there, you know, there was definitely some speed biases.

I don’t think there was really any, at any point during the meeting, there was a, you know, closers had a big advantage. I, you know, I don’t believe, I don’t believe that, but, um, yeah. I mean, I mean, I’m definitely using him. I mean, I, that, he’s, he’s one of the, I mean, there’s like two, I think there’s two horses that I know for sure.

That’ll be on every single one of my tickets and he’s one of them. That begs the question. Who’s the other a game winner? I think, I think he, uh, I think he’s gotten some overconfident rides and, uh, troubled trips and just, you know, I just think that he’s, you know, I mean, he is a Cadillac, but you know, sometimes these jockeys.

Give the horse too much to do. And I think that that, uh, and he’s always white and I just think he’s, I think he’s going to, he has to be in it. You know, I really do JK, do you have a quick one for rich before we let him go find Wesley Ward’s farm, the water will be betting on this week. Can I tell you off there?

Definitely. Cause this is going to air after these races run. So that was actually a terrible question by Jonathan, but now, now I’ll leave it in the air until the horse runs. Okay. So this is going to air after tomorrow. Yes. Our prerogative can lose tomorrow at Tampa and the first

David Delgado aboard. We’ll keep our money out of the wind pool. How about that? We’ll we’ll we’ll we’ll do that. I don’t care about that. Just the horse is in for a claim. Oh, okay. You know, it’s off of a long layout, seven months and then for a claim. So I don’t want, you know, that if somebody claims a horse, then I’m an idiot for giving it out on there.

Yeah. Yeah. You can’t do that. That makes perfect sense. Wearing it after Wednesday then, you know, I don’t feel excellent. All right. Rich, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. I’ll be at the Derby JK first time you’re going to play in the contest if I’m with you. That’s right. Well, well, you might get kicked out of a few parties too.

It depends. Who’s throwing the party, but will you be playing in the Kentucky Derby bedding? Yeah. Yeah. Nice. All right. Well,

we will be talking soon. My friend. God speed. Bye. All right. Thanks. All right. And now we’re going to bring in the charismatic race analyst and budding race color, the big a Anthony Seville. Anthony, how are you today? Okay, what’s happening, Jonathan? How are we doing? But it’s all good. It’s all good. Know we’re having you on to talk a little dirty, but.

Uh, I I’d be remiss if we didn’t ask a little game of Thrones. Who do you got winning the iron throne. I saw that Songza moved into like plus 200 the other day, which is a little bit concerning for me. I’m actually, I’m actually down with a buddy of mine at 14 to one on, on no one. I’m already a stock. So we have a little saver.

We got a little saver on carrion. I’m going with the whole . Theory. So I got a little backup on Tyrian, but Aria stopped for the coins. You never know what you’re going to golden dragon dragons have already, I guess, on that phone, when this was all said and done, you figure that you never know what you’re going to get on this program.

There’s your, your latest in game of Thrones tipping, but we’re here today. Anthony to talk to you about Tacitus the wood Memorial winner. And we wanted to get a little perspective from you about how this horse made it to this year’s Kentucky Derby, and then get your thoughts about his chances after that.

But, uh, when did you first become aware of him? I first became aware of him when he, when Belmont dropped him in the entry box. Back in October at Belmont park, I am a huge hose hatches fan. When a total was one of 2014 Belmont. My first bet of the day was a $300 parlay closed hatches off the toner list.

So that result of it about 11,000. So she’s always been near and dear to my heart, but I was a fan of clothes actually, before that and knew this was the first fall was looking forward to it. When bill ran them a mile on a 16th, first time, I figured that he was going to be one of these big, perhaps bulky turned out the other way.

It was a little lanky. But you figured that for built on a mile and a 16th around one turn, first time out of very taxing for a two year old, uh, you know, in October it wasn’t like it was December. It was still October. I don’t want to say it’s early, but it’s certainly not December. And he ran a bang up race in his debut chasing a really hot pace in the teeth of it the whole way.

And you know, then he came back and when he broke his maid and he looked a little Workman, like what you could tell. He was a work in progress and Phil took him down to Florida and built it. Does. Did what he does. And, you know, we developed great resources and champion resources and obviously great and champion the two words that we’re going to hold off on using when it comes to the task.

And so we’ve seen bill through this time and time again, not necessarily with three-year-olds, but you know, with plenty of horses in his career. And I think this one. I think this call has a whole lot of potential. We ask you this from bill Mott’s perspective or from a horse player’s perspective, do you consider it a negative, a positive or a neutral that the Derby is pretty much the one race that he has not had success in.

You know, it’s funny you, when you think about the Kentucky Derby, right? Obviously it is Americana. It, I don’t care what anybody says, and this is no offense to what goes on down on there to the Ark, to the race, to the Dubai. The Kentucky Derby is the most important reason in the world, but it’s the most important reason of the world because we make it the most important race in the world.

Um, Yeah. I mean, it can’t be used as a positive, obviously. I don’t know if you could take it as a negative though. Cause when you take this into consideration, if, if I gave you a list or I asked you to make a list of the 20 greatest framers of all time and we, we pulled a hundred people that know what they’re talking about in the sport, the names Bobby Frankel, Allen Jerkins.

Bill Mott Richard Mandela. And Steve asked him, listen, I’ll probably going to be on every one of those top 20 lists. None of them ever won the Kentucky Derby. Now that’s 25% of the guys and gals we consider the best to ever do what they do. They’ve never won the race. So Bill’s never been the kind of guy and Richard Mandela as well to go after this race.

They were a guide. Bob Baffert tries to win the Kentucky Derby every year before Bob Baffert. It was Lucas and Zito, the air guys that their program. Maybe people can all, I’ll tell you this point for one day I die. Their program is based on winning the Kentucky Derby and look that’s that’s all well, and good if that’s what your goal is.

That’s fine. But guys like Phil mock guys, like Richard Mandela, they frame horses. They train horses for careers. They don’t normally in order to narrowly, just have this one goal in mind when you come at it from that approach, I think winning a race, like the fence I could there be, can be hard, but like anything else got you just got to have the horsepower I’m kind of with you on task.

It sounds like you’re, you’re, uh, very interested in using, and he’s definitely on my short list of, of horses that could end up being my pick come, uh, come next week. But, um, I’m interested to get your take on what you think is gonna happen from a pace standpoint with him. Obviously he was forwardly placed in as early as two year old races, um, at Belmont and Ecuador.

And then he started to kind of get a little bit further back, obviously with some, you know, chasing some faster paces. Where do you envision him kind of running in this race and, and where do you think he should run? I, you know, it’s funny, Jonathan, we were talking about this on Twitter the other night. My man told me we already, from West point thoroughbreds, he was questioning the pace.

I, I, for 1:00 AM of the belief that maximum security is going to be on a loose lead. Um, I think he’s just faster. He’s coming out of some of those sprint race. People gotta remember his first three races were all sprints, so he’s just naturally faster than sources that have all been going around the ground.

Louise, a little murdering. Florida Derby. Nobody went. They decided to change tactics with him and scroll the long shots. Didn’t go. And he got to walk her dog on the front end for almost 49. So. It’s hard for me not to envision him on the lead. He’s not gonna be able to go 49 because there are a lot of horses in this crop that are chasers horses that want to be on the chase horses.

I want to be forwardly placed, but not necessarily on the front end, when that happens more often than not one or two of them, get up and get cued up enough between the crowd and you know, the running to the first turn where there is a little contention on the lead. I think you’re right though. I don’t think he necessarily has to be as far back.

Well, the pace got strange when not that Brady and Jovia open seven on the field and the warrior. I don’t think everybody expected that to happen and taxing passes for forced to you. Don’t be probably on a harder send earlier on than most of it that most people thought they would be when you have those in our teas.

On top of your horse, you always have that confidence that they can be a little closer, right thing. So I don’t think he’ll necessarily be as far back as he’s been, because I don’t think the pace will be as fast as it was in his last two races. But man, it’s, it’s good to know that he’s come out of races as a two year old where he’s been a lot closer than he’s been.

I think. Jose, we’ll see how this plays out. One thing that one of the best things Jose does, he’s a great judge of pace. One from Rudy Rodriguez, who’s one of the best judges of face I’ve ever seen. So Jose’s the kind of guy where I don’t think he’ll let this horse get shuffled too far back. If it’s slow on the front end.

But you got to have confidence that he’s past forces, namely in that Tampa Bay Derby, when a pace collapses and he’s passed them inside in traffic. And he says a lot of them, those are all great attributes when it comes to the first Saturday and then great stuff, Anthony, thank you so much for that analysis of Tacitus, who I think is going to be on all of our tickets.

Come next weekend. We’re going to. Make you do some double duty here. If you don’t mind, we’d love to bother you again a little bit later in the week to be on our other show, the Niara bets late pick five show. If you’re game. Uh, yes, absolutely. Since I’ve called 41 races at aqueduct. And, uh, we have the weekend stakes preview presented by an hour batch and I’m on talking horses most of the week.

I will gladly join you. You are the best show. Best hardworking man over there. Thank you, Anthony. And now returning to the, in the money airwaves, our friend, Tim Carroll of sky sports racing. How are you, Tim? Yeah. Hey, can I play the hell? Are you good to be back? Excellent. Well, we want some information about.

Well, it was basically a mystery horse to most Americans master fencer. Let’s start with an easy one. How did this horse end up in the Kentucky Derby? Well, the, he actually finished fourth in the Japan road to the Kentucky Derby standing similar to what they have in America, but they’ve got one in, uh, in Japan where only one horse can go on to the Kentucky Derby.

Unfortunately, the, the top three pointers, uh, um, go in for one reason or another. So through default, basically he got the invite and connections have elected to go, well, there you go. So the top three decided not to go. Generally speaking, these Japanese dirt horses, how good are they? If the top one had decided to go, do you think that’s a horse that might fit?

I mean, is this horse just really coming by default? How would you describe how this unfolded. Look, I, I think the bottom line, what you’ve got to remember, right. I would take it as a compliment if I was an American. I think people realize that when it comes to dirt, Americans are the King of dirt. There’s no, no comparison anywhere in the world.

It’s a, it’s a little bit like jumps racing here in England and Ireland. Sure. We’ve got jumps racing in America with Japan and Australia, but. I promise you it’s, it’s nowhere near as strong. It doesn’t have the depth that we’ve got over here. And I think probably to be honest with you, none of the horses that have qualified, but the Darby can win a purely on form.

Oh, I would say without knowing for sure, but I would assume that the connections to the qualified, these horses on that dirt have gone, well, look, we can stay at home. We can win some, some decent races on the dirt over here. Some valuable parts. If we go to America, Basically, let’s be honest. We’re going to get our backsides kit that, that gives a definite perspective regarding master fencer.

How good at the same stage of his career, does he look compared to a runner like Lonnie who did surprise some by at least what was it? He ran in the, in the money, I think in the, in the Belmont stakes, the year that he came over, how would, how would their for measure up. I would think at the moment you would say that allow me at the same stage of their career, who had achieved more learning, actually look, he had his own ideas that some of the Japanese courses do, but the one thing about Lemy, you see, he certainly could stay, as you just pointed out.

He hit the frame in the Belmont. Of course he finished nine two as well in the Darby to be fair. He was, he was beating the long way, but he still ran. All right. This horse has had the six rounds today. These first couple of rounds were on turf. Now he’s only won two times. He’s he’s one on the dirt. The one thing I would say see will stay.

If they keep him around. I don’t know if they’re going to maybe at Belmont, maybe, maybe it’s on sloppy ground, something like that knee. He might be a little bit of a chance of hitting. The frame simply because he’s, he’s got plenty of stamina you might say, but, but again, purely on form, I would say absolutely not.

He’s won a couple of times over a mile and a quarter he’ll run out the trip. I tactically, that’s one thing that he’s favored. He’s quite versatile. He stays the trip, but he’s also got a little bit of speed, but. When I say, he’s got a little bit of speed. I’m talking about by Japanese standards. Again, if we get back to the American horses, their speed on dirt is just unmatched anywhere in the world.

So to sum up, we do not need to worry about including master fencer anywhere in the top four in the Kentucky Derby. Maybe if he were to run, okay, come back in the Belmont one. We could consider underneath there, but no reason to fret about him for our Derby tickets. No, I’m looking. He’s the first Japanese based course to come over as well.

When you have a look in loud, he ran in the Dobie, as we know, and as I said, he had a better profile overall. I think ski captain that was around about 1995 on the field and the Dobie. And again, I would say those two, it achieved more at the same stage in their career. So. I would imagine unless a lot of horses in the Derby run well below their best, don’t turn up with their a game.

He’s absolutely. No, to be honest with you. And I say that in a respectful way, I’m not trying to downplay it. All of a sudden you’ll meet would love to learn him, but basically, um, Paying credit to the American horses. Um, I would think if he went around in the Belmont, you know, if he was, if he was 40 to one in the Belmont or something like that, and the, and the rain came and it turned into a, uh, a very testing Belmont, he might be worth a few dollars each way.

All right. Thank you so much, Tim. No worries, Peter. It’s great talking to you again and now we’ve got noted contest player, Frank moose story, to talk about Bodie express. Frank, I’ll let you explain why we chose you for this horse. Well, I think because in the Hawthorne contest, I only express was one of my, uh, Courses that I used at about 70 to water.

So that ran second that helped me, uh, capture that, uh, contest victory. So I think that’s why I got the call on this one. What did you like about Bodhi express that day, other than his price? How has he put himself in a position to maybe run in this year’s Kentucky Derby should one horse scratch? Well, I played golf every single day of the year, so I got a good deal on those horses there.

And, uh, He actually had, which I don’t think a lot of people really remembered. He ran in the hidden scroll, maiden race where hidden school ran off the screen that day. Um, but I, I thought that there was hard day to do numbers. The track was kind of strange. Uh, certain paths were good, certain were bad in my opinion.

And, uh, bony express was a homicide like that day. Got beaten a ton, but, uh, I still wanted to follow him throughout to see what kind of talent I thought he had, uh, his next start. He ran second in a real fast maiden race, um, to a Navarro horse, I believe. And it was a fast paced race. Uh, he got beat a half length, uh, real good final time.

And that was a little stretch out for him to seven furlongs. And then when they ran them back in the Florida Derby, I’m like, okay, I’m not a real big fan of the three-year-olds just yet. Maybe I can land on a horse that’s improving and getting good at possibly the right time. And, uh, it did work out in the Florida Derby.

He, uh, broke, alertly broke, clean, and, uh, sat a nice trip and, uh, held on the run. Second for me there. Frank, uh, most of our listeners might not know this, but you are the King of Chicago and, and you’re, uh, you’re, you’re, you’re like in your, like in the game of Thrones version of Chicago, your whole family is royalty when it comes to this horse racing thing, even your offspring can a handicap with Justin doing so well in the world horse players to win a contest out in Santa Anita, will you be using.

The Florida Derby runners in a positive light moving forward, or do you think the race was, uh, below kind of what you’re looking for when you’re trying to identify your Derby horse? No, I think I’m going to use them. Uh, typically I would probably say no. Um, You know, I know the pace was nothing spectacular and whatever, but, uh, you know, I, I don’t feel the three-year-old crop right now is that good.

You know, bathroom might have some, something up his sleeves still with a couple of his horses. But to this point, I don’t think the three year olds are, uh, at, when they normally would be talent-wise coming into the Derby. So, uh, You know, some of those Florida Derby, rodders, uh, you know, they might be the right direction.

And, uh, I’m going to go in that direction. I think they’re, uh, Well, I think some of them are getting better. Some of them had excuses, the last few trips, or, uh, or like I said, are getting better, like Bodhi express. So yeah, I’ll be using those horses. Yeah. Very cool. That will be something, I don’t know if you’re planning on competing in the Kentucky Derby bedding challenge, but if you are, that could be a horse to a really goose the prices for you.

Should you get Bodhi express in the mix once again? Yeah, I will definitely be competing again this year and the Derby tad test and, uh, Yeah, I hope things go well. If he gets a good post position, draw auction, the price is going to be plenty. Good for me to use him in a contest. Excellent. All right. Well, Godspeed to you, Frank, we will be talking soon.

We’ll get you on for a much longer appearance. Really enjoyed having you long overdue. Right? Thanks guys. Now we’re going to bring on to the show. Hudson Davis, a young aspiring horseplayer who J K met at the Caitlin contest. How was your experience over there? Hudson? Oh, it was awesome. Jonathan kitchen and dignities and Ryan, and a couple of guys who’ve been playing for a long time and I got, definitely got some good experience and that’s some good people and had some great conversations.

Excellent. Well, we have a wide array of folks on this Derby preview show, and we’re very happy to add you to the mix to talk about signal, man, tell us how this horse made his way to this. Year’s Kentucky Derby. Those single men started off a little rough. I mean. Brooke has made an urgent breaks and bad news.

His first debut is at Churchill at five for a longs, constantly wanted a little bit more. So I gave him a rest and entered into a maiden special Saratoga. We broke his maiden going seven for a long, definitely looks a little bit more impressive there. Um, then he went to the third race, the breeders maturity at Keeneland, where we all saw next go, why are the field of big odds?

And, um, he’s definitely, certainly look a little more game. And then we saw him in the breeders’ cup, juvenile. Or his third to game winner. And by next go again. Um, it’s a little question Mark there, but, uh, he, um, his next race has raised five, uh, Kentucky jockey club grade two it’s hands down the best race to date.

I mean, he was close to the pace he was tucked inside. He said he could navigate a little bit of traffic and just battling the stretch and then touching on battling and stretch a little bit. I mean, we’ve seen signalman stick his neck out in front of everyone. Or at least one tender coming down the lane.

So I think those are all pretty necessary for the Derby. I picked up some points there and then, um, the grades and fountain the youth. I mean, that was the horrible performance, but I’m willing to say. Didn’t take the Gulfstream that day and I’m willing to toss the race when you’re considering him for the Derby.

And then where he made up the bulk of his points to get into the derbies of bluegrass, dead, close to lead. We just didn’t have enough to get to the front. Um, but talking about stretch battles, he made sure to, uh, beat up some like, which was pretty impressive. So I think that the third place points there.

Might not make it into the Derby, but he’ll be close. I’ll be in there also eligibles. That’s right. He’s the second also eligible as of now, would you give him any chances, this, a horse who’s shown enough toughness that you could consider keeping him on your tickets on the big day?

I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m torn 50 50. Jonathan texted me. He said you don’t have to like him when he talked about, when I talked about him on the show, but I mean, I think there’s a perfect scenario where he can win. And I think that scenario is the biggest and inside posts. It’s not one to three. If you stay stuck in the rail quick pace and think you might be able to leave his way through for a win, I mean, horses in great shape and all the issues you could have them on the quarter, isn’t going to be one of them.

So I think you have the chance, but more, more top 10, pick one more for you. And then we’ll let you go. Just curious where your contest journey is going to take you next. What’s your next target? Uh, hoping to be in the Preakness challenge at San Anita. Um, I was looking at the Kentucky Derby challenge a little bit.

There’s not many qualifiers and that’s a hefty buy-ins so well, the Preakness contest at Santa Nita near and dear to our heart. Of course, that was the world horseplayer store debut event. Last year, we’re going to hopefully get more of those up and running and we hope to see your name in those events when we get them there.

Hudson, thanks so much for your time today. Absolutely pretty sharp for 20 years old, JK 20 years old. I couldn’t even count to 10,000 when I was 20 years old. And now to talk about game winner, we’ve got Michelle, you, Michelle, how are you today? Lovely. Thank you. Are you still buzzing from your big win in the thoroughbred retirement foundation contest over the weekend.

Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. It was tingling. It was very tingling. It was so much fun having you on and on that live broadcast, which it sounds like we’ll eventually see the light of day after some strategic editing is done, but we’re not here today to talk about that. We’ll have you back on the other show soon to talk about your, your prowess as a handicap and contest player.

You’re here today to talk about game winner. This horse has. Long-held the ante post favorite spot for this year’s Kentucky Derby. When did you first become aware of this horse? I mean, obviously when he was training before his, his debut down at Del Mar um, you know, you kind of pay attention to who bought Baffert Scott fully-loaded.

And I think all along people were looking at rooster, but game winner was definitely one that was on the radar and she just wasn’t as flashy as anybody else. And he still is that way, right. He’s just not a flashy type horse, but he delivered on debut and went on to win three consecutive grade ones and become a champion.

So you paid attention to him and. He’s your typical Bob Baffert plain Bay horse. No white markings, hard to discern, so good to figure out what it was about him. And you always knew it was game winner for two reasons. One, because like I said, it wasn’t a flashy work and the other was what he’d come down the stretch.

He was a little gangly. So he looked a little all over the place at those front legs, kind of milling around. And I love this thing, his progression, since he’s gotten older and like he’s gotten beefier and bigger, he looks more manly now and he’s really straightened out. So, uh, I, I. But very pleased at his progression from two to three.

Sounds like he’s grown into that frame. And I think a lot of people, that’s such a good piece of information because a lot of people might look at the raw paper and see a horse that hasn’t won his last two races. But I think more astute observers might think of reasons why that happened. Coupled with a physical progression.

Is this a horse who could be sitting on a big race? Have we seen the best of game winner yet in your opinion? I think he could be sitting on a massive race. I think that if you’re going to underestimate game winner, because of the student seats, you are going to be sorely in the doghouse, uh, come Derby day.

I mean, you know, he, he isn’t like, he wasn’t the cult that had like, you know, huge long legs. He had to grow into his ganglia, but you could tell he needed to progress physically. And it was just his natural, raw ability that got him through, you know, his two-year-old year tied with the prowess of Bob Belfor and obviously a lot of his other.

Stable star type forces, uh, got sidetracked and this horse was just able to go through there, but that gives him a lot of foundation coming into the Derby. Uh, you know, he’s battled tested on the road, which I liked. And just from a standpoint in the morning, this is a horse that was, I don’t wanna say plotty but he just didn’t.

Excite you in the mornings and then he’d come in the afternoon and he’d run it. He’d get it done. He just kinda did what he needed to do. His last couple of works, especially as what, just a couple of days ago he has looked so sharp. I mean, it’s very rare. You can see game winter pulling away in his works by four or five, six lengths.

And that’s exactly what he did recently. You’ve got massive strides. If you would just watch him, he’s actually a really nice mover at the end. And that has been a progression from two to three because he. Didn’t used to be a great mover. Uh, I will say this, he’s got kind of an asterisk to me, and it’s not that he’s been beat his last two with that his first three or four races at good.

And the greeters cup didn’t have a lot of standout horses. You know, you don’t see a lot of star power in those, the prejudice, look back on a maiden race and be like, Ooh, look who got beat in here. Um, and in his aspect, we don’t really see that. But I think his last two races have been awesome. Obviously Omaha beach, um, beat him just by a scat nose.

And I think game winner had a lot to do that day with the round trip coming off the break. Um, you know, I think that Omaha beach had the advantage on him. And then even in the Santa Anita Derby, I think. I felt like he wasn’t maybe drawn exactly where he should have been. And with it being a,  be able to think it was a little bit tough for him.

Roadster was just rolling up on the outside where I feel like game winter kind of had his sights set on Instagram and he winded himself there. Like, you know, he always does. And then when he saw. Roadster with all that momentum on the outside, he was like, Oh, now I got to beat you and he didn’t get it done, but he brings his a game every time.

And you know, you got to love the fact that I remember when he won the mixed Pharaoh and somewhat voting in the standoff, another expensive Bob Baffert horse. I’m like, he was $110,000. He’s not like a billion dollar horse. You know, this horse is doing it the dirty way. He’s like the most blue collar Bob Baffert horses.

Yeah. Maybe shades of real quiet in that regard. Exactly. That’s I feel like I’d want the people have said stuff like that. Um, this is, there’s nothing to knock about game winner. Like you want to try and beat him in a lot of these races because he’s a favorite and you’d like to beat favorites, which is what I always end up being that person.

Um, but there’s nothing to knock on him. Performance wise, training wise, he’s rock solid. You know, you can watch a lot of these works on SBTV, which is awesome to get to go to because then you can really go back and. You know, he’s been one that there’s gotta be a dozen works on there that you can go back and watch his actual progression.

Um, you know, you can see him, Bob moved them inside the outside and we’ll see him sometimes in the front end of works. And sometimes coming off that’s because Bob likes to tailor his training and he likes game winner to control them. Um, he doesn’t work in by himself a lot because like I said, he is pretty.

Lazy and just kind of does what he needs to do. Um, but you’d like that too, because then you can really see what the horse is feeling like. If, if all the works are commandeered by game winner, you can see him, uh, you know, doing better as he has gotten older coasts. You’ve obviously got to see all three of, of Bob Baffert potential runners in this Derby.

If you had to rank the three horses, uh, and in terms of which ones you find. Have the best chance of winning the Kentucky Derby? How would you rank those three that, that Baffert is going to send over? Oh, I mean, I would definitely, it’s a big toss up for me between game winner and Roadster. I know Roadster had that raw talent.

He was the horse that we were looking forward to, but I think Dean winters just danced all the dances. So I would, in my opinion, put him on top, despite that brilliant turn of flip FlipIt Roadster showed the Santa Ana Derby. He isn’t proven with as much as game winter has. So I put game winner on top.

Rhodes for a second. And I’ll tell you what. I was a huge improbable fan, like going into Arkansas. I thought he was going to be legit and he ran bell obviously, but since he came back, I haven’t loved his training as much as I did going into Arkansas. Well, there, you have a great stuff as ever from Michelle.

You Michelle, we’re going to have you back for a longer visit very soon. Thanks for your time today. Thanks guys. And now welcome back to the, in the money airwaves, our good friend, Nancy  Nancy, how are you today? I am completely honored to be with you guys. This is awesome you to say, you’re here to talk about a horse.

Who’s generating a lot of buzz. We think he’s going to be the favorite talking about Omaha beach. Let’s go back to the beginning of this one’s career in your eyes. When did Omaha beach stamp himself as a prime contender for this year’s Kentucky Derby? Well, you know what? It’s interesting guys because when he was here for the rebel and it was so awesome that.

You know, we had two divisions of the rebel and I think both were just complete standouts. Uh, You know, he won his division of the rebel by just a nose. And I think it’s important to note that both runnings of the rebel had almost identical running times, um, just to complete standout and he almost won that.

Uh, gate to wire, so a complete, complete, just impressive running, uh, when he did win that division. Uh, and when he returned for the Arkansas Derby, I saw him during training a couple of days before, and Larry Jones brought him to the paddock. And for morning schooling. And when I saw him Richard Mandela and his wife were down in the front side, winter circle, and I kind of looked at them guys, and I said to Richard, I said he had gained weight.

He has, he looks better. He’s right. Really come into his own a little bit more as we sometimes see three-year-olds do as they progressed towards the first Saturday in may. And Richard looks kind of looked at me. He says, you know what? He absolutely has. Yeah. So the fact that he has moved forward in his training where the big, big standout to me.

So he definitely improved going towards the Arkansas Derby. And the speed we kind of knew was going to be between gray attempt, which he didn’t really go to the lead, but Omaha beach was just a, another big standout. And, you know, I, when I interviewed Mike Smith, uh, deciding who he was going to ride in that.

Kentucky Derby. Was it going to be Roadster? Was it going to be Omaha beach? I personally didn’t think there was going to be a really big decision to be made and it was what, less than 48 hours when they announced the decision. So I think that’s, uh, yeah, I think that’s a big statement right there. Spend a lot of time around horses.

It certainly makes sense that you’d see. Physical development, leading to improved performance on the racetrack. The thing that I used to question about Omaha beach back, uh, last year was his competitive fire. It did seem like there were some situations out there in California where he had races at his mercy and seemed content to just run along there through the stretch.

I guess it makes sense that that type of physical development would also accompany a mental development. Cause now he does seem like a horse who has for lack of a better word. Killer instinct. Just curious from a horse person’s perspective to talk about how mentally and physically horses developed together.

Yeah. And I think that he’s going to go into the Kentucky Derby with maybe that bit of competitive edge, you know, it did take him several times to break his maiden. And I think now, you know, that the Arkansas Derby was contested over an off-track. He’s kinda been battle-tested. He’s got that shipping under his belt.

He’s faced those huge crowds as we saw on Arkansas Derby and rebel. So, I mean, I, I think that this is going to be a big two thumbs up in his corner, going into Churchill downs on May 4th. Nancy, you know, obviously being at, uh, an Hotsprings and at Oaklawn for the entire meet, you, you see the track change and a lot of different biases can develop and come and go.

And, um, based on the Arkansas Derby day, when you know, it was obviously a little bit, uh, a little bit wet and sloppy, did you feel like that racetrack played a certain type of way? And I guess that leads to the other question is, did you think that Omaha beach was in a neutral place on the racetrack, a good place, bad place?

What was your feelings about how the racetrack was playing on that day? Well, you know what I actually thought I played pretty fair. Um, you know, they did a really good job because we just got hammered early on in the day with just a ridiculous amount of rain. And, you know, I was glad to see it kind of lightened up as we did get.

And it was just so poignant that right before the Arkansas Derby, the rain stopped. So we could all go out and enjoy it without just getting completely drenched and, you know, Mike Smith was just perfect and watching how the races were setting up. So, you know, I think it was really good too, for all the guys to kind of see how the horses were, were setting up and how the track was playing.

But, you know, I think throughout the day it was playing, uh, playing pretty evenly, to be honest. All right, Nancy, uh, when it comes to your bedding in this year’s Kentucky Derby, wha how active are you going to be punching Omaha, beaches number? You know what? I really think that, you know, there’s still a couple of weeks left ago and, you know, I think this is going to be, uh, All about part of the draw as well.

I would like to see him get a good post position. I would, I really don’t want to see him get in that auxiliary gate. Um, I think, you know, when we do see horses finally get to Churchill downs, they really do come into their own even more. So they put on weight, they really do dapple out. And if you guys have seen the exercise rider for Omaha beach, he’s a big kid.

He’s tall. I’m guessing he’s about. Five 10. He’s not heavy. He he’s very, uh, proportionate. He’s long, tall, and thin. And it’s ironic because Larry Jones, I know for a fact offered this kid a job when he was here for rebel, because he’s very proportionate to Larry Jones who still gets on his own horses. So, I mean, he.

He definitely knows how to keep Richmond. Delano’s how to keep Omaha beach very, very fit. Um, he’s bigger than normal exercise riders. And I think that’s maybe a benefit because when somebody like Mike Smith gets on him, this works probably just takes a nice little sigh of relief. So, uh, it’s very, uh, appropriate, you know, so I would like to see him maybe, you know, maybe get the six or the eight somewhere around there.

Cause you’ve got probably 20 trainers telling their jobs. Get into a good position going into the first term, which is easier said than done. Um, but you know, I like the fact that whatever the mother nature is going to bring on the first Saturday in may, we know that Omaha beach is going to be able to handle the situation.

And I kind of liked that idea. It’s like in baseball, swinging the heavier bat in the on-deck circle before you go and step into the batter’s box there. Exactly. And they, I like the fact that they also Vande Omaha beach from Arkansas after. Are to Kentucky after Arkansas Derby. They didn’t worry about getting him on a plane because you have to van to little rock airport, fly to Lexington and then van to Louisville.

So he just got a nice leisurely van ride all the way up to, uh, up to Kentucky, which I think, and, uh, looking back on it, that’s actually probably the smarter way to go. All right. Great stuff, Nancy. Thank you so much. We look forward to talking to you again soon. Thanks so much guys. Best of luck. Welcome back to our airwaves, our friend, Brittany ERT, and Brittany, how are you today?

I’m doing wonderful. How are you guys? Life is good. Life is real good. And we’re really excited to talk to you. Good. We’re excited to talk to you about a horse. We talked about extensively the last time you were on the show and that’s Roadster. Let’s go back to the two year old year at first. When did you first become aware of this one?

I assume, with all that buzz at Del Mar, or did it go back even farther than that? It was really the buzz at Del Mar. I mean, it was even before he debuted, he was kind of the next big thing. And I think I mentioned this before Bob calls him the TMZ horse because he was walking outside of a restaurant, TMZ caught up with him and asked him who’s the next American Pharaoh or justify.

And he said Roadster. So that obviously got a lot of press, a lot of buzz, especially with, within our industry. So we all knew about him then, and then he showed that talent on debut. And I think. And the Del Mar futurity was really surprising to everybody that he ran the way he did, but obviously coming out of it with, um, having to have surgery.

He has a lot of excuses and man is, he lived up to those expectations since. He certainly has the year has progressed according to plan the last day, it was a beautiful trip, but he definitely showed another level of ability as well. When you look back and analyze that race, do you hold against him at all?

How perfect the conditions unfolded for him that day, or you still looking at the upside? Not necessarily because to see how far back he was for most of the race, you didn’t think that he was going to get there. Um, game winner, you have to look at his trip and think, okay. He was wide going into the first term pretty much wide the entire time.

And he was pretty game even in defeat against roaster. So I take nothing away from, um, game winners, two losses this year. I actually think he’s one of the best horses that we’ve seen. I seen on the Kentucky Derby trail, it could really handle anything that comes his way. Uh, but when it comes to Roadster, had we had better trips than most in each of his starts, I would say yes, but I think there’s more to him that we haven’t seen yet.

And, and that gives me a lot of hope. Moving towards the first Saturday in may. But if you’re looking at who’s battle tested and who can overcome, probably whatever comes his way and a 20 horse field, you’ve got to look between those two. I gained one out, of course, all of the, all the races that you’ve obviously handicapped on air and, and the, uh, post race interviews.

And then also just sitting at the dinner table with your father and all these years of him training horses, how often. Do you hear the throat surgery coming back as kind of a, as a, as it working as a, as a success story. And obviously Roadster had the throat surgery and, and breathing is an important part of going a mile and a quarter.

Do you feel like he’s out of the woods with the throat have with the last two performances or do you think it’s still something that could come up when they go a little bit further? I think you’re typically going to see if there are any repercussions of the throat surgery and that sense of them not fully coming fully coming back from it.

I think you’re going to see it in the first race. So for him to back up his first race with an impressive performance in the Santa Anita Derby, I would say. I think that he’s out of the woods. Um, and the sense of, I think that surgery was done unbelievably well, I know we went to Rood and riddle and a fantastic surgeon because you never know how they’re going to come back from it.

Obviously, when I’m working out in the morning, they’re not going necessarily full speed. Like they would be an eraser. You, you’re not quite sure if the throat surgery has worked. Um, I say based off of his two performances, it’s safe to say that it has, when it comes to interviews and such, I don’t. Really feel like it’s something that most trainers highlight because it is a surgery, whether it be, um, you know, an entrapped epiglottitis or something along those lines that requires a surgery or, or a, um, you have a collar that can be, um, paralyzed.

And so that’s another breathing issue. So all of these things, of course, um, that’s why they put him in the hands of, of such incredible people at Rood and riddle. I say, he’s. Out of the woods, because I think you’d see it, his first race back. Um, but each horse is different, but there’s nothing off of those two races that would give me any sort of indication that he’s not in his absolute best form.

Um, so I, I I’d say hats off to Rood and riddle for doing a wonderful job with Roadster and allow him to breathe again. It is not just important. Running a 10 furlongs is pretty important running at all, and it is great to see a horse, have a chance to realize his potential and everything I’ve ever heard about the surgery backs up what Brittany said there in terms of if there’s going to be an issue, it’s probably going to have cropped up by now.

All right. Here is. The sort of typical HorsePlayers reaction. I think on the negative side, when looking at Roadster from here, and we talked about it a little bit. Last time you were on Brittany, about how happy Mike Smith was with Roadster previously, the idea that Mike Smith, it is not riding. How big of a negative is that to you evaluating this horse going forward.

I think it’s more of a positive in regards to Omaha beach. I think it just says how highly he thinks of Omaha beach. And I know that it was one of the most difficult decisions that Mike’s ever. Had to make. And that thing, something, because he used undoubtedly been put in a position like this before, but I think it just speaks to the level of talent of Omaha beach and how he probably feels that this horse there was more to him and his ability to run over any surface, whether it rains or not, because we all know that, um, you know, mother nature loves to pour every day.

So to me it’s more of a positive for Omaha beach than it is a knock on Roadster. There’s no doubt about it that Mike is most concerned about. Or at least I would think is most concerned about Roadster beating him. Where does Roadster fit right now? We won’t hold your feet to the fire about making a pick, but there’s, there’s final workouts to come.

There’s a post position draw. But when you’re thinking about your short list right now, where does Roadster fit in that? Oh, he’s he’s undoubtedly top two. I mean, that’s what that post position job, because my goodness, if he just posts position one, I’m not going to be very happy out. Omaha beach drug, post position 20.

So obviously there’s a lot there. Um, when it comes to distance and like I said, how game they are and he’s appropriately named, I really love game winner. I think he’s just one of those. Tough hard knocking horses that will no doubt get a mile and a quarter. Um, and Tacitus, I think is another, that might be overlooked just because of the power from the last but task.

That is to me in those past two races has shown a lie and with his breeding, which everybody knows is incredible. I don’t think the distance is going to be an issue for you guys. I mean, that’s where we see the separation. Not all horses, especially with a perfect trip, can get a mile and a quarter.

Brittany, where are we going to see you next Saturday and Friday, you’ll be TV. Are you going to be NBC seeing? And then also we have to, you know, there’s some sports books somewhere in the world. I’m sure that’s taking, uh, bets on what color? Uh, Britney hurting. You’re wearing Derby day. Well, I’m not the queen, but I’m flattered on the left.

Um, I fly out to Moodle, uh, next Monday night and I will be a part of the NBC broadcast and we’re on air Thursday, Friday and Saturday. So we’ll have 30 coverage on NBCSN and then Friday, obviously Oaks coverage on NBCSN for quite some time. I believe we’re on air for about five hours or so. And then, um, big show, obviously.

We go from NBCSN for a couple of hours on Saturday, and then switched to the main channel for all of the Kentucky Derby coverage. And, um, I’m, I couldn’t be more thrilled once again, last year was my first year to be a part of the triple crown coverage and with a triple crown winner, it’s going to be tough to surpass that, but I, I feel very, very blessed and lucky to be a part of the team.

Cause I know how much work they put into. Giving a great product for those that can’t be there to watch Brittany great stuff as always white and red. You can’t Dodge that question. All right. The white and red, is there any, what can, what can we glean from that JK that roaster silks that’s the killer Roadster in Omaha beach is silk.

So that’s where she’s leaning. Very clear, Brittany. Thank you so much. We’ll be talking guys. Thank you. Thank you. Looking forward to a big fun app for Saturday to me. All right with that. JK is going to take off for a bit. We’ll have him back on at the end of the show, but our replacement forum for this next segment, much more than Abel.

We’ve got clocker, John Nichols accomplished contest player in his own right here, John, how are you doing today? Okay, this must be just a completely insane stretch of days for you. I assume pretty much whenever you’re working, it’s a little crazy trying to clock all these horses. How much nuttier is Derby week for you than the rest of the year?

It’s. I mean, it’s not as bad, not that bad as it used to be once you get used to it. But, um, we got backed up a little bit cause of bad weather over the weekend, we had about 140 or a hundred videos is work yesterday. And now do you live in, would have been split up on Saturday and Sunday, so. Oh, I’m exhausted.

Just thinking about it, frankly. I’m doing 12 interviews today and my brain is turning to jelly, but we’re not here to talk about 140 today. We’re just here to talk about one. And that horse is by my standards. I was brainstorming with our mutual friend, Paul Matisse about this episode and who should talk about by my standards.

And he suggested you. Why do you think Paul mentioned you specifically to talk about this horse? Uh, I kind of liked the horse a little bit. This way. He’s been training so far at Churchill and, uh, He says, well, these look good. All three words he’s had at Churchill since Louisiana Derby, it seems like a horse it’s thriving right now.

And I mean, we’ll see that when it comes in two weeks. So when you look at this horse on paper, cause you’re not just a physical handicapper, you’re also a very good pen and paper handicapper. When you look down at the page four by my standards, what’s the first thing that stands out to you. At what point does he start to look like a horse?

Who’s got a shot in the Kentucky Derby. He just looked like he was getting better and better each rights on his figures wise and just mentally he’s putting it all together. It looks like. Yeah. And what did you think about the race in Louisiana in terms of how fast it was? When I first watched the race, I wasn’t really visually impressed without a stop.

It was like your normal Louisiana Derby. So, so nobody really stands out, but once you go back and look at the pace numbers and everything in the race and the final time and on the day compared to everything, I mean, he ran a huge race at the top, too. Yeah. When you are looking at a race like the Derby.

Obviously, you’re going to be reserving judgment until you have a chance to see all these horses as they get into town. And even some of them will be working of course, between now and the day. But when do you start thinking about the race as a betting race? Not until much later when you’ve seen them all or are you already sort of formulating wagering opinions, shortlist, things like that?

I usually kind of start narrowing them down a little bit after the last prep then, uh, narrow narrowed down to four or five that I really keep my eye on a little closer than the other ones. I think my top four or five kind of narrow it down to there. And it’s really don’t make a decision until after the post draw and either Wednesday or Thursday of the week, we’re going to try to have you back next week after you’ve had a chance to look at these horses and see that stuff.

So I won’t be holding your feet to the fire now, but I will just ask it like this by my standards. Is this a horse you see using in all four spots of the superfecta com uh, Derby day? Yeah, he’s the kind of horse I think he’s got to tackle speed. He might be the horse that when they turned for home, that makes a lead or he’s going to be in contention to order for home.

What happens the last day of the mile. We’re not sure with any of them going to Mount a quarter, but I think he’s going to be in contention, definitely in the stretch. Yeah. And sometimes that, yeah. I mean, if you can identify the ones who are going to be in the hunt at the pace call, those are horses you want on your tickets.

Yes. Yes. Yes. It seems like since I went to the point system, we don’t have those insane, fast paces and closures coming from deadlines. Like they used to, there’s not much movement. It seems like once they turned for home games, it seems like, like from the last day home, there’s not much passing going on.

We’ll save the analysis of the Derby pace until we have a post position draw, but that’s certainly gonna factor into it. I know it’s a skill that you have as well. The ability to design races in your head before they run. So we’ll put that on our list of things to talk about next week as well. Yeah, just looking at the problems right now for the folks, it looks like it’s going to be a fast paced and the Oaks is glancing at the probables.

And then you start looking at the Derby. You’re like, what’s it. There’s no real front runner. I mean, I mean, the ones that have gone to the front have gone slow paces are moderate paces. Nobody’s going to be out there winging. Yeah, though, I have just have this feeling that they’re going to find a way to make it at least honest, uh, given some of the troubled posts and, uh, just the fact that the adrenaline of the Derby alone, but we’ll get into that a lot more next week, John, I want to thank you so much for taking a few minutes out of what’s a very busy day to chat with us.

Okay. No problem for you at any time. Next up is one of the managing partners of 10 strike racing, clay Sanders, clay. Very glad to have you on it said that Marshall Graham guy, I’m glad to be here long, overdue, long overdue. And I’m kidding. Of course, Marshall, one of our favorite guests, but we decided we needed to diversify the, our 10 strike partner, friends and who comes on air.

And plus we’re going to save him until the next time warriors charged runs. Cause it seems like that typically works out pretty well. Yes, that’s going to be mandatory day before he runs. Marshall has to be on the bike. We will accommodate that. We will accommodate that, but you’re here today, not to talk about Warrior’s charge, but to talk about long range Tati, give us the scoop on this horse.

How did he earn his way into this? Year’s Kentucky Derby starting gate. Well, he earned his main points by winning the rebel. Uh, if you remember, they split the rebel at Oaklawn due to the, uh, issues going out in California. And he probably won the easier of the two races, but, uh, he ran down and probable in a very impressive race.

Um, I urge people to go back and watch that, uh, rebel. This horse broke on top, had the lead going into and out of the first turn, but he had the maturity to rate and go fall back and he let four horses pass him on the backstretch, which is rare in a steak race period, but especially for a young horse. And.

Yeah, four horses go past. Damon probably goes wide on that a far turn. And then John Cort hit the button and he accelerated in the lane and a one, a tight Photofinish over improbable. Then let’s get your take on what happened the next time in the Arkansas Derby. Obviously we were there. It was a crazy day.

The rains were wild. What happened to him? Tripwires. And where do you think this horse is right now in his terms of his form? Well, I think you got to think about. You know, Steve asked me some managing this horse. He already had the points to get into the car, Kentucky Derby. I mean, I know you always want to win the big races, uh, Willis Horton, the owner of long range toddy it’s from Arkansas.

But I know in the back of Steve’s mind is he had a horse that was already. Eligible for the Kentucky Derby probably did not have this horse primed. He broke. He was, I think, in the 10 or 11 hole in the Arkansas Derby. And, you know, didn’t trip out, ran very poorly. I think he was six beaten, quite a bit.

Backed up to an 84 buyer. But I think the key, if you’re bullish on this horse is this horse has terrible. The sire take charge. India is terrible. My numbers. Um, I think if you can make that case that he didn’t care for the surface, draw a line through. That race. And if you cover it up that race, this horse would not be the 40 or 50 to one people are talking about.

I mean, I think he would be in that 15 to 20 to one. And you probably have a little bit of a buzz on this horse. I mean, right now, I think he’s the anti bugs horse. I haven’t heard anybody talking about long range Tabi and, uh, you know, I think if you cover up that race, he’s got a shot. Not necessarily to win, but to hit the board.

Yeah. I was going to ask in terms of batting, if this is one you’d use on top, we’ve talked to some other guests. The Derby horse rarely in these days puts a foot wrong in that previous prep. But at some point when the price gets high enough, it could certainly pay to take a contrarian view. At least for those underneath spots.

Would you use them for a penny on top or is this just an underneath pure value play? I wouldn’t touch him on top. I don’t think he’s talented enough to win this race. Uh, I think he has a shot underneath. I mean, I think you look at his trainer. Steve asked Mason, he’s had two, a third place finishes in the last three years with gun runner and looking at Lee and.

Neither. One of those were very hard to think. Gun runner was 10 to one and looking at Lee was 30 to one. So it’s long ways Tati was trained by Dallas Stewart. I think everyone that I’ll be talking to up this worst underneath, but Steve asked me some quietly and become one of these guys you need to look at underneath.

And I think tactically, this horse is going to be close to a very slow Derby pace. I think the numbers, it’s not going to be slow from what we’re used to, but by Derby standards. I don’t see anybody going out there and burning it up. And this horse is tactical and he’s never worse in third or fourth in his previous start.

So I think he’s going to be in that, uh, You know, up close trip and he’s bred to go along. I mean, take charge Indy over unbridled sawn mayor. So you have a horse that’s gonna be formerly placed red to go along. Those are the type of horses you walk underneath, not the ones that are going to be coming from a million miles away.

And they’re going to encounter a lot of traffic problems. This is the type of horses I like to use underneath. Very compelling case. And I will now sneak in one more, the type of horse you might like do some sort of bottom-up key with, or just more of an incurred. I bought them up key with typically I’ll find three or four horses that I think are uses in the three and four hole and your tribe and supers use the logical, uh, this year I’d be King, like Omaha beach on top and trying to let the chaos happen underneath.

Uh, but this is the top of horse that a big price that I don’t think a lot of people are going to use that, uh, can get overlooked. All right, clay, thank you so much. We will have you back on soon. You’re welcome. Good luck. We’re going to bring in trip notes. Take her extraordinary Benny South street. Benny, you got your feedback problems fixed.

I believe you sound good. You sound good. I mean, you still have that amazingly deep baritone that wooed all the girls back in the day on Caroline street doing karaoke, but there’s no feedback. So that’s the good news. You’re here today to talk about spinoff. This is a horse I know you’ve liked for a while.

Do me a favor, go back to the beginning of this horse as PP. Talk us through it a little bit and tell us what makes him interesting. I don’t remember his maiden score of what I was watching Tampa. One day, I believe it was an optional claiming race and this war showed so much talent. He blasted off, you know, I pride myself on.

Recognizing jockeys and how they evolved. It was Johnny P’s hands. He’s a very unique writer in that his hands. He almost looks like he’s writing at times when he’s not, he’s actually restraint meaning, and this horse pull Johnny around the track so fast and you could see that he actually, his hands changed.

So for me, that was an eye-opener for me when I was watching the race. I thought, man, this horse is just fast. He’s a rocket ship. And then he was so athletic. Uh, I think he went sober 23, 22, 80 ish into that first turn of Tampa. And, and the horse that went with him was committed to the lead. So he kind of took back a little bit and within just a few jumps, he had paused and moved around that leader.

And it was super impressive. And then, and then when he did and the, and the fourth turning and the stretch was even more impressive, he looked like he hadn’t really tried. You know, if anybody goes back and watches that race, I encourage you to look at his ears. He makes the lead and immediately throws his years in the air and he’s kind of listening for a cue.

And when Johnny hits him, he takes off. So with his ears forward, almost as if he had some intelligence, he knew he was waiting on a horse. And, uh, he was impressive and his Gallup, that was huge. So I followed him into that, that fairgrounds race, and, and he didn’t, he didn’t follow the way I thought he did.

Um, but he still, he made, he made enough of an impression that I believe he can still move up and he’s got a ton of speed and what I believe to be a kind of a payslip dirty. So I still think he’s got a big shot. And in this day and age with all this information is out there, um, with super accurate, uh, track variance and speed figures and pace analysis.

It’s no wonder we’ve come to a day where. The favorites are winning a lot of these races and I believe he has a shot at what might be a massive number. What would you guess? Like what price are you looking for on a horse like spinoff? We’ve talked a bunch about the Louisiana Derby on the show already and how the number did come back on some figure systems as sort of sneaky fast.

Uh, do you think that will that drive the price down? What are you, what are you expecting to see? Well, Joe, when he gets off. So I talked to all about Johnny and he gets off, which for me is okay, because Manny is another collector guy that jumps on and he’s aggressive. Um, and I want an aggressive ride out of this horse.

I think if he makes the top he’s, he’s got more than a boxer’s punching chance. And, uh, you know, I don’t know. I think it’s going to be a big number. He could be anything he could be. You got hammered in that fairgrounds race, which I found very interesting because nobody picked him. I didn’t hear anybody on the telecasts pick this horse, you know, and he got hammered.

So I could see him at 15. I could see him at 35, so it’s kind of a wait and see, um, I’ll play some multi pick race plays into them. And if he’s a big number, I’ll point him to win too, because I do think he has a good shot. All right, Benny, thank you so much. We got to get you back on the website in the money podcast.com soon with more trip notes analysis.

You got it. Thanks Pete. Have a good day. Well, okay. Back to the show, our friend, Sean Borman. Sean, how are you today? I’m doing very well. Now when maximum security ran his last race, I recall saying on the show that this was one I was looking forward to betting against. And it was you who said, eh, maybe not so fast with that opinion PTF.

So I wanted to bring you on here to talk about this horse in some respects. Um, one of the least likely Derby runners, at least when you consider the fact that he debuted for a tag, let’s start back at the beginning of his career and then move it forward. When you look at this as paper, what is it that you see?

Or at what point do you start seeing something that suggests he could be competitive in this year’s Derby? No, the, the starting for a tag thing would have bothered me. You know, in December, but now that he’s running three times, I just don’t even consider that as a factor anymore. Um, so that doesn’t bother me at all.

The race that really impressed me was February 20th. When he, you know, he still had a soft face, but it wasn’t, to me, it wasn’t as soft as his first piece starts. And he was still able to live impressively and draw away from that field. And then in the Florida Derby? Well, yes, the case was very slow, but he did exactly what he should have done.

Given that scenario drew off and finished nicely on, on my leg, peace fingers. He finished like a grade one horse. So to me, he hasn’t proven that he can’t handle faster paces. He just hasn’t had to yet. Wow. When you say that, it sounds an awful lot, like another Derby winner that a lot of people were looking forward to betting against who I know you liked and used as well.

I’m sure you know who I’m referring to. I’m going to guess. Are you referring to always three minutes? Yes. Now granted subsequent events did suggest that maybe the cynics weren’t wrong to be against always dreaming. And he was the beneficiary of a racetrack he liked. And, uh, and possibly, I think it was a bias that day as well.

But does that at all, underline your interest in a horse, like maximum security. The fact that you’ve had something like this happen in the last few years, Yes, it does. And you know, there’s other instances of horses that haven’t needed to show as much early speed, but the way I always judge those horses is how they finish.

If they finished like a nice animal and I’ve done nothing wrong that I’m just going to work under the assumption that they’re a nice animal and could potentially handle a faster pace. Now I’m not saying he absolutely will in this scenario, but. He’s not an automatic for me. I see. I see. So you’re not necessarily on the bandwagon, but you’re keeping him on the list of horses to consider.

That’s a better way of saying it, right? He’s one of about six horses I think could potentially win the Kentucky Derby. Now, one of the things we’ve talked about before on the show is when you look back at the pace figures that you make and the final figures that you make horses who are trending.

Forward horses who are trending sort of laterally horses who are moving backwards of those three categories. We know you don’t think maximum security is moving backwards, but do you think he looks poised for a forward move or do you think he’s really just one who fits based on his body of work or at least based on the last day?

It’s hard for me to say that he’s poisoning forward again, but I think he definitely fits, especially given the fuse, the, a slow pace in the Kentucky Derby this year. There’s just not a whole lot of early. We’ve had about half a dozen guests make that exact observation on this show. So far, of course, we know that trainers and jockeys and owners handicapped too.

Could you see that going out the window when the Gates open and the pace hotting up anyway, despite what it says on paper, it certainly could. I mean, you never really know what. Jockeys and connections have in their mind going into a race, you know, all we, all we really can go on is, is what’s been, you know, we’ll tell them and try to extrapolate that into a future as best we can.

I’m sure the place could end up, they ended up blazing. I guess if this guys just sin like crazy out of the gate, but that’s, that’s hard to, to handicap. So. Um, I’m going to guess that this space is just average to slightly above that. All right. Well, we’re going to have you back on the show. Hopefully next week, when we have a draw, we have some more workout information, other type of buzz.

We can talk a little bit more about the pace and the race in general, but thank you for your thoughts on maximum security today. You’re welcome. And now we’ve got the director of Bloodstock for WinStar farm and a sharp player as well. Sean, to go, Sean, what’s going on? Uh, down here in sunny, Florida, Pete, and join, uh, sunshine.

That’s for sure at the lbs April sale, uh, it’s going to get kick-started here pretty quick after we go along reshow. So, uh, hopefully the market stays strong, which it should. And, uh, it seems like there’s plenty of people down here shopping. So nice lead up to next week at the Derby. Very cool. Well, we want to talk about your runner in the Kentucky Derby improbable.

How did this horse end up coming to Windstar? He was selected, um, at the September sale, uh, him and another citizen called bulletin that we bought, we bought out of the September sale. Uh, they were both picked out, um, by our buying squad. That includes David Hanley and Nelly Walden, of course. And, um, bottom, he was raised by a very good farm St.

George farm. And, um, so we picked them out. Didn’t have to pay a lot for them. I believe it was, uh, less than 200,000 on top of my head. And, um, So he’s just, uh, been a very exciting horse, uh, to keep the momentum going home. Let’s talk about his career from the jump. At what point did the light bulb go off for you that this could be a Kentucky Derby horse?

Uh, well, you know, when we go to the sales, I would say 90% of what we’re looking for, horses that can go around the ground. Um, that could be also selling prospects, which automatically make them, hopefully there there’ll be hopefully, um, not obviously very few work out, but we’ve been lucky enough to keep the streak alive right now and have a prospective Derby horse.

Um, certainly, you know, once I start raising a half, five, eight, they get to their trainers and you get early reports from them. Um, he was a horse that, that definitely was receiving high regards. Uh, from the time he shipped out to California. So one that’s been on the radar for this assignment for quite some time.

Let’s talk about how his three-year-old preparations for the Derby have gone. Give us a little bit of a walkthrough on that. Well, he was an undefeated two year old. He was Greg one winning two year old. He was three for three. Um, broke his maiden. Nicely first time out, um, where I had to work hard for it came back and won the, uh, street sense at Churchill downs.

Yeah. Uh, on British cup weekend and came back when Los Alamitos charity, uh, quite impressively, he is, he’s had two stars, a three-year-old so far, um, ran a extremely good race off the bench at Arkansas in the split vision of the rebel lost just by a nose. And then, um, him and Omaha beach slugged it out in the Arkansas Derby.

And he, he did come up, uh, three quarters of the length short, but, uh, certainly didn’t lose anything in, um, And that loss. And, uh, so he’s he, uh, breezed again yesterday, but it looks like he’s coming into Derby as, as good as you would hope you could have one. So, uh, The expectations are high. You talked about buying horses with the idea of going around of ground.

I want to talk about the sire here, city zip, not one that leaps to mind necessarily as a sire at Derby type distances, though. If you look at the stats, there have been examples. What do you think of the sire side breeding for the derbies mile and a quarter? Well, certainly, um, it’s not all just about sire.

I think you have to look at the overall pedigree and he has a pedigree that is full of depth and quality and, and distance. You know, he’s out of an APN de mayor, um, who himself was a Belmont stakes winner and, and certainly has produced. Uh, plenty of horses that got around the ground. So, you know, well, you also have to have speed.

And so, you know, you know, I think when you look at the total package, uh, you get to speed and class at cities that brings you and you get the stamina, the APN to gets you. So, um, you know, he’s not a horse that, uh, Looks as if he has any distance limitations. And I would say being out of an APN de mayor, um, that that’s not the question that we have with them at this point.

Yeah. That makes sense. And I, I would say visually, you wouldn’t see distance limitations when you were, when you were looking at him just as an athlete. And I would imagine that that matters tremendously. 100%. I mean, you know, physically, you also have to look the part and, um, you know, point guards aren’t down in the paint, trying to you are playing the ball.

So, um, you know, there’s, there’s certain molds for, for every type and some defunct, the molds, but, uh, he certainly looks like the horse that, that fits them all now. I want you to put on your horseplayer hat before we let you go here. Putting improbable aside. When you look at this race, who do you, who, who are the horses to be as far as you’re concerned?

Um, I do believe the horses from the West coast, which would include improbable are, are probably the, um, Most consistent horses. Um, I think Omaha beach has, has proven that he is probably the horse to beat at this point. Um, you know, both of his races, both the rebel and the Arkansas Derby were, were the fastest races of that day.

Uh, he ran faster than the Oaklawn handicap and he ran faster than midnight, these two in the late, um, on the rebel card. So I think that alone, um, you know, I think. That’s a huge factor. I do think game winner, uh, his breeze looks phenomenal on, on video yesterday and he’s a horse that you could say absolutely 100% is screaming for a mile and a quarter.

Uh, so I think those two, um, based on their, their overall records and their, obviously the recent records, um, Probably stand out against the rest of the group. Uh, I do think Tacitus is a horse, um, to pay attention to, you know, I think bill mod, if you would have asked him on January 1st, who’s your best?

Three-year-old Colt in the barn. He would’ve told you this horse. Um, he hasn’t done anything wrong. He’s overcome a lot of adversity and winning the wood, uh, which you know that for a young horse, that’s a, that’s a huge. Um, learning experience. And so, uh, I mean, look, he’s, he’s, he’s by arguably one of the most dominant hires of the last 10 to 15 years.

And he’s, he’s out of the five time grade, one in. W one winning mayor. So he has every right to, to, to cross the line first. So I think, uh, within probably included, it’d be those three other horses for me that I think, um, have the most legitimate chance of winning the race. All right, Sean, thank you so much for that update.

We will be talking to you again soon. Sounds good, Pete. And now a great pleasure to welcome back to our airwaves. The man, we know him by many names, but I think my favorite is the Piper at the Gates of Dawn Chris Pivoto Chris, how are you? P everything’s good. How are you doing excellent. Now folks might not know.

We’ll give a quick little career update about you. Very recently. You’ve been helping out angel Cordura with John Velasquez, his book. So when we were thinking of the right person to talk about code of honor, I thought about you and hopefully we’ll get some insight from you about this runner. When did you first become aware of him?

Um, last summer I Saratoga, um, his debut race. Uh, I saw him and, you know, I always, I always keep in mind, showed them a gay horses when they went first time out. Cause I know that’s not really the way that he trains them. Um, if they do win first time out, then, you know, they’re. Uh, you know, super talented. He normally takes them along slowly and just let some mature.

So, um, I definitely took notice after his debut and walk us through a little bit, what code of honor’s been doing since then, and then we’ll eventually get to where you think he fits in this Derby picture, but it is always interesting with a trainer like Shugg, who’s known for being on the more conservative side when he gets a talented young one and how he chooses to handle that runner.

Yeah, well, this first is interesting man, because, um, I think he’s probably the, the only surefire noble mission, uh, up to this point, right? I haven’t seen too many other Nobel missions of interest, uh, that peak my interest anyway. And I think that the mother, I looked it up this morning. I think the mother, she broke her maiden first time out at Churchill.

Um, and the brother, the half-brother one. I believe opening day or I’m sorry. Uh, opening race of Derby day last year for Neil Howard. I was a horse named crosswalk. So some of the family seems like they’ve had some success over the strip and, uh, you know, Johnny’s been on, um, code of honor every time except for the champagne, um, last year.

And, you know, you know, to, for Johnny to be able to give a commitment, obviously he’s always thought really highly of the horse and. Um, you know, she has campaigned them from Florida, you know, just orb, uh, alone, uh, from Florida to win the Kentucky Derby. So, you know, she knows how to do that. And, uh, the only thing with this source is I know he’s not a, uh, Overly big or his, I think he’s kinda more lightened angular.

So, um, you know, I don’t know that he can take a pounding of just race after race. I’m sure he had to try to probably carefully campaign him, you know? Sure. J K and I have disagreed about him. I really liked the big wind JK thought it was more the benefit of a setup. And then last time I thought he had.

Every excuse to not win and not run that fast. Given, I felt like he was in prep mode. J K took the view that the overall race wasn’t that fast. So he, he, and he, he basically implied that I was a sucker for being interested in code of honor. Who’s right. Pipes. Um, you know what, I’m, uh, I’m a believer in this horse.

I think that he’s a super talented horse and I think that last time. Uh, in the Florida Derby, nobody really had a chance to get involved. I thought service his horses kind of dictated everything through slow fractions on the front end. I thought code of honor and bourbon war both ran, honestly, in that race, they both ran their races and really never had a chance to make a elite impact because of the early tempo in that race.

I think you saw when he did get an honest pace with, uh, Billy Mott’s horse. Um, hitting sprawl going extremely fast in the. You know, in the fountain of youth, you saw the type of run that code of honor was able to put in. That was, that’d be my only question Mark with him. Pete is in an, in a race like the Kentucky Derby, where now through the point system, it seems like we’ve kind of taken the true sprinters out of that race.

Uh, if you’re a horse that needs pace to run it, and you’re kind of a horse that’s going to need to find his way through traffic, um, it kind of becomes. A difficult proposition nowadays, it seems like the pace is in the Derby or more controlled. And it does feel like everyone who’s come on the show here today has talked to me about how they don’t see abundant pace in this year’s running, but sometimes jockeys, handicap, jockey agents, handicap trainers, handicap.

Sometimes it might not look like it’s going to be that fast, but in a race like this, where everybody wants to get that position going into the first turn. I wonder if maybe they won’t hot it up and set it up for a late run from code of honor. I’m staying on board. Now. I don’t want to hold your feet to the fire this far out for a selection or anything like that for the Derby.

But when you’re looking at your early shortlist is code of honor on it. Definitely. Um, you know, this year has kind of a, a unique year, man, because I didn’t dive too deep into, uh, handicapping the race, um, for betting purposes because I have a rooting interest this year on, um, I’m all in for Coleman. My man, George Weaver, I’m ruining them home.

You know, I, I do think that I do think that code of honor, um, you know, stands a big ch a big chance, though. If I, if the page is honest enough, you know, she’ll go have him ready. We got the pleasure of speaking to George A. Little bit earlier in the broadcast, and that is one of many great stories to follow this year as we had for the first Saturday in may pipes.

Thanks so much for your time today. We’ll catch up with you soon for a much longer visit. Right. I look forward to it. Thanks Pete. And now to talk about country house, I’m bringing in professional horseplayer Duke Matisse, Duke what’s up stolen on Pete and get ready to hit the golf course today. That sounds much less stressful than sitting, grinding playing horses.

I’ll say that much. Yeah, I need a day off now. And then let me ask before we get to the specifics of country, house and his past performances and how he’s made his way to this year’s Kentucky Derby. How important is the Derby to you as a horseplayer? Is it just another race or is it something more. Oh, no, I’ve been to this.

I’ve been to, I think this, I haven’t can’t count them anymore, but I think this’ll be about my somewhere between 15 and 20th Derby that I’m going to attend. And, uh, I’ve made, uh, I’ve definitely made the last 10 out of 12. So I love the Derby. My wife loves the Derby and you really, if you’ve never done it, you have to, you have to go one time.

Will you be participating in the Kentucky Derby betting challenge as well? I don’t think so. Um, I was kind of, I’m kind of trying to, I don’t want to. I want to knock those tournaments, but I’m kind of tired of the, the all in last race guys, you know, just betting their money. Like they, like, it’s like it’s phony and I’m kind of getting kind of getting away from fair enough.

Fair enough, everybody. Uh, everybody has to go with what works for them in contest terms. And you’ve certainly had success in a variety of formats are entitled to pick and choose wisely for yourself. All right, let’s talk about this horse country house Duke. Um, when you look down at his paper, are you seeing anything that makes him interesting as a potential bedding vehicle in this year’s Kentucky Derby?

I’m definitely gonna use them. I’ve always thought the horse has had a lot of talent. Um, when he broke his maiden at Gulf stream, who was one of the most, uh, impressive moods after getting totally left in the gate. And that, and that’s probably his biggest issue, uh, in a 20 horse Derby gate. A horse that doesn’t break very well.

He never seems to break very well. That’s going to be his biggest problem, but talent wise, he, he, I mean, he’s coming out of all the right races. I think I thought the Louisiana Derby was, it was a pretty quick race. And I, and I definitely think the Omaha beach race is definitely going to be. The key rates of the Derby.

I want to ask, since you mentioned the Arkansas Derby, of course, just, you’re obviously an astute observer of bias. There’ve been a lot of talk about the rail, maybe not being good there that day. Just curious what you thought about how the track was playing on Arkansas Derby day. If you don’t mind sharing that.

Yeah, the rail seemed like it was washed out and they had a lot of rain. Um, the inside, I think two pads, I think pretty much nobody did any running in. So it was kind of one of those tracks where if you were, as long as you were three pads off the rail, you were fine. And, and, uh, I think most of the courses in the, in the Arkansas, we were, I think with the exception of, I think the worst on the lead, I think he was right on the rail and I don’t think he finished.

So I think the rail was just washed out. Makes sense. When you look at country houses, performance that day, obviously there are some things to like, but he finishes in another zip code. Then the top two. Can you see anything in him about why he might take a step forward? Or is this really just a horse that you might leave in combinations in third and fourth at this point?

I think he’s going to have a tough time beating Omaha beach, unless Omaha beach is a wet track lover, but it doesn’t seem like it because he ran good to two races in a row, one on a fast and one on wet. Um, he’s probably playing for third or fourth because I think the talent of Omaha beaches is a little bit too much for him.

That being said though, his country house, I didn’t like the sloppy track and rent, you know, rent it. Okay. Third is raised before that wasn’t that bad, uh, Louisiana, cause he got left in that race and he had a white trip in that race. So I mean, it’s, he’s a tough horse to figure, but I think you have to use him somewhere.

And would you leave him for a penny on top because of the unknowns? I mean, it’ll be interesting to see if he continues to break better. You make the point, maybe he didn’t like the slop or is this, or would you limit his use, do you think picking your best guests from here to underneath. Um, I don’t think I would totally limit it to underneath because I thought like, uh, originally this is the worst I bet in the future.

I bet I bet him in the future bets, as soon as he won that race at Gulf stream, I can’t remember the odds I got, but it’s, it’s pretty high. Um, he hasn’t really gone forward since then. All his numbers seem to be the same and that, and that being said, he’s getting he’s, he’s getting a little better coming out of the gate, but not much better.

So I’m tending to lean towards, you know, superfecta as trifectas, but I don’t think I would completely eliminate them. I mean, I can eliminate others, probably not him. As we record this, we don’t have the jockey booking in front of us. And I don’t think it’s made yet, but by the time this post, it probably will be how much does that information matter to you for a horse like country house?

Very little, he’s a, he’s a horse. That’s going to be in the back and he’s gonna, you know, he’s, he’s gonna have to have a pace melt down to win, probably. So I don’t think that really matters. I mean, anybody, any of these guys, I think in subtle, um, back in 15th or 16th and. Yeah, save some ground and then, you know, find a, find a re find running or man, I don’t think that matters that much for the sake of your future ticket.

We’re we’re hoping good things from country house. And we look forward to talking to you again soon. All right. Thanks, Pete. Have a great day. And now we’re going to continue with the youth movement on this broadcast and bring in a guy in his early twenties. He’s been on the show before. Actually you might remember these days.

He is the racing communications and notes writer. For Arlington park he’s grant LaGrand grant. How are you today? What’s going on, Pete, what’s up? Well, we’re having a lot of fun on with this show, bringing in the 23 players to talk about 23 horses. And I wanted you to talk about tax a horse that I know there is some sentiment out there.

A little bit of interest, potentially a little bit of a wise guy feel for this one in the Kentucky Derby. And I’ll start off by asking you this as a horseplayer, when you’re looking at a huge grade one race, like the Kentucky Derby, how much do you hold that against a horse, like tax that he started his career in claimers.

Well, for, for the Derby specifically, it does sort of come into play for other bigger grade ones. Maybe not as much, especially for older horses, you know, once you get to the four and five-year-old ranks, but for these three-year-olds, um, it does come into play. And although I don’t see it as a huge negative, for example, maximum security who I’m sure you’ve already talked about.

Um, was also started for a tagging tax here, too. It started for attacking, I claimed that King Lynn, and now he’s gone on to prove that he’s a classy horse. And I think that, yeah. Good horses are good horses, Pete. I mean, um, it doesn’t matter if you come from the 12, five ranks and work your way up, or if you start in the 50 ranks and work your way up, a good horse is a good horse.

And sometimes these three year olds, they just take time to come into their body, take time to figure this racing thing out. And yeah, when they finally do it, it could be, you know, tax could be 20 to one, maybe even longer. And. That’s a really good price in a Derby for a horse that’s improving. And that’s what I was going to ask next.

I know some of your methodology or looking for horses whose four might pretend that kind of forward improvement. Uh, we obviously became a stakes horse with his third in the ramps and the Remsen is one of those races who from year to year, sometimes it can be that antiquey race, but then he comes back, wins the Withers and doesn’t get beaten all that far in a race like the wood Memorial.

Where do you think his form is headed? I think that his forum, I think he’s going the right way for sure. Um, it’s, it’s a completely different conversation. When you talk about these horses getting better, especially the three-year-olds over because although he’s getting better, he may not be good enough to win the Kentucky Derby, uh, in two weeks.

But. Add the right price, uh, you know, an upper 20 to one 25 to one, maybe even longer. He’s definitely an underneath horse. He definitely is going the right way. He’s coming into his own. He he’s figured this race racing thing out. And you know, he’s a gelding. He, you know, he has, he has nothing to lose.

They’re they’re putting him in the Derby. Uh, if he wins, it he’ll be in the, you know, he, he has nothing to lose here. Um, I think that his trainers have a good, a good idea of what he’s capable of now after the, like you said, the winners win and then running a very good race in the Memorial against Tacitus.

And I think that he’s going the right way and that’s all you can ask for, uh, at this time of the year with a three-year-old it’s. Okay. You want a horse that’s getting better. And you know, I, I’d rather the horse peak on the first Saturday in may then take two weeks before a month before. So I think he has a shot.

He’s definitely going the right way. And, uh, w we’ll see though, I wonder if his ultimate future won’t be on turf. Some of those derbies. Uh, de facto derbies a little bit later on the green stuff, looking at his breathing and remember some remembering some of the Danny Gargan quotes about why they took them in the first place, but he’s earned his spot in the gate.

That’s for sure. One more quick one for you grant while I have you just curious, you were in Louisiana all winter, curious what you thought of the Louisiana preps this year and those horses as we head forward. We’ve we’ve had some love for them throughout the show today. Yeah. I think that this, this year, um, in particular has been one of the strongest years.

Um, I think that the war of will conversation, uh, has been, kinda has died down a little just because of his. Performance in the Louisiana Derby, which obviously has a very legitimate excuse. But, but I mean, by my standards, he’s no, he’s, he’s, he’s a horse. He, I mean, I was right there in the winter circle, uh, and at the 16th hole, he was just taking up, getting into his best dried and spinoff came to his outside and you know, it was, I mean, when he passed them on the rail and spin off was never going back, gonna pass them back there.

Uh, Gabe Saya said that he had a ton of horse left. Um, he could have, he, I don’t think the distance is going to be an issue. Um, I know the owner of, by my standards, uh, somewhat well, and he’s, he’s very excited for the Derby. Um, I think that the Louisiana scene, this, this winter, uh, was all around, better than it’s ever been, uh, with all races, including the, the preps.

Um, I think that Wharf will was still in the conversation after that last ratio. I think he’s pointing to one on the line and I think that he’ll be around there for the Derby. I wouldn’t count them out. Pete he’s he’s run the numbers. He, he was a freak over the winter. Uh, seeing him in person, he looks like a freakish horse and if he’s okay and if he feels good and he’s working well, and.

You know, he, he makes it to the Gates in two Saturdays. I think that he has a shot, but it will be a fundraiser we fund to see who between those two who comes out better. Because to me, they’re, they’re pretty equally matched both by my standards. All right. Thank you so much, grant. We’ll have you back very soon.

All right, Pete. Thanks buddy. And now I’d like to bring in bet America radio podcast, host and race caller extraordinary. Jason beam. Jason, how are you today? Pete. I’m doing great, man. It’s good to talk to you guys as always, we thought of you for cutting humor, because we believed you had some experience calling this runner.

And then when I contacted you about it, I was surprised to know that it took you a minute to remember that fact. I a hundred percent for God after I, yeah. After you mentioned I go, wait, maybe I did that. I went back and looked the PPS. I was like, sure enough. And once I looked at the BPS, I was like, Oh, I totally remember this race.

Because for me it was like, I got to call the Starlight silks and the live Oak plantation stilts in the same race. And I remember just thinking that that was so cool that day. And now it’s even cooler because this horse is going to be in the Kentucky Derby. Obviously has come on a bit for, for experience since that run most recently scene and what feels like the forgotten of the ultimate prep races for this year’s Derby and Sunland park, but just want to get your thoughts overall on that this runner and his progression and what we’ve seen on the racetrack so far.

Yeah. You know, I went back and watched that maiden race after we talked and, and it wasn’t the most impressive. I mean, he kind of had to grind out the victory and the horse, he beat identifier just finally came back to win after a couple more tries at the Gulf stream on the grass and, uh, You know, subsequent to that, you know, he ran pretty decent at Gulf stream and his next start, second behind bourbon war, who we know a lot of folks like, uh, but he kind of had a decent trip that day that didn’t get such a decent trip in the, uh, Southwest.

He was, he was super wide and just didn’t have much. And, uh, the Sunland Derby, I thought he. Versus another twist of fate. I thought that was a big Johnny V factor in that race because he kind of just kept him out in the clear, never stopped his momentum and he was able to kind of grind out a win, uh, to me when he wins, he’s kind of parlaying, good trips.

Into those winds and the Kentucky Derby, when you’re not a speed or a stocker, it’s pretty hard to get that trip. And so I’m not too encouraged about his chances. Well, that’s fair enough. Do you see them as one you’d include anywhere or one that you pretty much be looking to oppose in all slots, at least from here, we’re not holding people to the feet, to the fire for the final selections, but just, you know, where we sit here, 10 days out.

Yeah, I don’t think, I don’t think he would be anywhere on my, uh, on my, on my selections or, uh, or tickets or anything like that. I just, I just don’t think he has the, uh, the ability of some of the ones on the top end. Let’s talk for a minute about your plans for the rest of this spring. Very excited to hear the news.

You’re going to be calling races at Monmouth park. What are you looking forward to most about this new gig? Uh, honestly just seeing the place and, uh, experiencing, I’ve never been to it to New Jersey, the state yet. So really excited. Yeah. Really, really excited for that. But I mean, it’s just, you know, it’s really, really quality racing.

There’s going to be a ton of major connections there. And so for a race color, that’s just super exciting. I mean, I spent my whole entire career at smaller tracks, which I love those places, but, uh, this is, this is just a different. A different ju uh, jump in class, so to speak. So, uh, I’m just really, really thrilled for it.

And, uh, it’ll be fun. Plus, I get to call some graded stakes. I’ve never, I’ve never called a grade stakes race before, so really excited about that. Cool. And for those that don’t know with the purses going up expecting very different things at mom at the summer than what we’ve seen in some of the previous summers and the quality of racing is expected to, to go up.

If you think Monmouth’s short fields, big favorites, it might not be so much that way. And Jason, you’re certainly going to add to the excitement, in my opinion, and I’ve seen your office and it’s really nice. I’ll also throw that in. Frank showed me the, uh, the booth looks, it looks better than what we had at Gulf street West Jason beam.

Everybody we’ll be talking soon. My friend. All right. JK is back with us. Did you enjoy your little walk around the block there? J K. Is that where I was? Yeah, it was great. I needed it to exercise. Uh, Is got to get ready for Derby. It’s a lot of walking. My iPhone records record steps on those two days of Oaks and Derby, a lot of walking and most of the walking happens when you’re trying to find a ride home towards the end.

I recommend people. Spend the a hundred bucks, 150 bucks to 200 bucks. Share it with a friend and like book transportation out of there. Maybe not in, but out of there, you will appreciate it in the law. Some train for the marathon, JK trains for walking around at the Kentucky Derby. All right, now we’re going to bring in the head of marketing for brisk net.

We’re going to call him director of marketing for bris net, our pal ed DeRosa. Ed, how are you today? Doing well, uh, we’re looking forward to Derby next week. We have you here to talk about a horse that you have a deep and abiding love for, from what I understand another twist of fate. But before we ask you to talk about the horse, I’m just going to ask very simply, do you think this horse is going to get in off the list and actually run in the Derby now?

No, it sounds like they pulled up stakes to the point where even if. They did get in. They’ve pretty much committed to the Preakness, which is winner of the El Camino realtor B uh, he has one of those I’ll spend pay or some sort of incentive from the Stronach group to run at. Pimlico makes a little sense.

At this point, it looks like he was a long shot to make things have been a long shot in the gate. So it sounds like they’re pointing for old Hilltop, Pete. All right, well, fair enough. And then we’ll keep this very quick. What is it about this horse that attracts you so much? I thought, uh, the El Camino real Derby was pretty strong, came back, uh, very good.

The other horses in the race where we haven’t really had that breakout performance this year. Uh, and then I thought in this last two races, the summon Derby, uh, and the left. Since takes a keen Lin, uh, sort of victim of, uh, the eventual winners getting best rides, to be honest, not that Jackie did anything wrong.

And another twist of fate, neither in either spot per se. Uh, but the winner just got a better trip and got the better of another twist of fate that day. He’s absolutely a horse that would be willing to back in the pregnant and should something bizarre happened and they changed tack and go to the Derby.

Would he be on your tickets? Absolutely. Yeah. I think at this point with, uh, in the, to reroute now he’s somewhat more out of the news, 30 to one. I would have to think as the floor and probably even higher. Uh, I’ve just liked him too much this year to, to let a horse beat me at that price. Now, sometimes you get the wives, guy horses and things like that, but there’s no danger of him being that.

Yeah. 30 to one plus without question, a strong use on pretty much every ticket. And you, you you’ve, you’ve got two, uh, opinions. I think everyone wants to hear about, um, if another twist of fate doesn’t get in, I’m very curious, who you are excited about, uh, backing in the Derby. I also need you to we’ve, we’ve poked at you a few times on the show.

I need you to defend your, your love for Chophouse on the show where everyone can hear it so that we have a better understanding of where you are there. I still haven’t tried it yet. I’ve sworn that I will try it. But, uh, I wanted you to, to, to be able to let us know you like in the Derby and let us know why you like house.

Yeah. Uh, well actually I would say my answer to both probably is, uh, underlies the same way my brain works. Uh, in both instances, uh, I, I liked by my standards and the Derby, uh, is I somewhat hinted with another twist of fate. I just don’t think we’ve seen a breakout. Superstar type horse this year, as we have in several of the years passed, and two of them have gone on to win the triple crown.

I know some, some books offer a, a prop on triple crown and the no, a very deserving fate here. It’s really difficult to see anyone stringing three in a row, uh, which is my long way of saying, uh, finally this year, I think we could. Could get a price. And by my standards, maybe the now horse, he ran a one Oh two speed rating winning the Louisiana Derby he’s been working well.

Uh, some fear that he becomes the wise guy who, but just doing the math on that line. Guys, I don’t see how this horse is less than 20 to one, uh, when the Gates open and that’s a fair price to me. So he’s the horse I’m excited about. Uh, and it’s somewhat similar with the chop house. It’s the greatest restaurant in the world.

Absolutely not. But do I like to Zig when others JAG? 100%. So when people are waiting for a table for an hour alone, I’m already enjoying a, an appetizer and awaiting the main course or chop house, the food just as good, if not better. Um, so you know, why take, why take five to one when you can get 20 to one?

Well, defended and I appreciate it very, very much. Thank you for taking time out of a busy time of year to join us. And we’ll have you back for a proper visit soon. Yeah, my pleasure. Always good talking, racing with you guys. And, uh, Jonathan, why? Why? Well, I guess Pete, same question. I see you for the KTBC. I will, I will be there.

I will be there. Uh, I talked to Gary actually the other day about it, so I will be in the building. I’m going, gonna do my best to not get disqualified. Well, we’ll, uh, we’ll be cheering for that and good return. Well, and, uh, good luck on the walk-in conditioning. There you go for me. I will not be there in person hosting a Derby party in New York.

No cover, no minimum at Treadwell park West in hell’s kitchen, but I’ll be watching the Kentucky Derby bedding challenge with great interest. Any listeners who have questions about the event, feel free to reach out to Gary Palmisano. Or us on Twitter. We’re happy to give you a steer. It is one of the great bedding contests out there and something that if you’re planning on betting big money over Derby weekend might as well do it in the context of the contest, and then be able to participate in the prize pool as well.

Thank you very much at DeRosa. All right, F on everyone. And now to round things out, we are bringing in a guest I’ve been excited to talk to for a while. And we finally get our excuse Erin Wellman, who is the president and founder of eclipse, thoroughbreds. Erin, how are you? I’m doing well. Thanks for having me on guys.

So obviously you’re here to talk about gray magician. Want to get a little bit of history on this horse and how he came to you? Yeah. I was actually having a quiet Sunday afternoon at Del Mar had no runners anywhere across the country and was just trying to decompress a little bit and be a little bit of a fan on my own.

Maybe handicap, a few races place, a few wagers and baby race came around on the card was watching it intently as I always do. When any of these maintenance special weight races come around summertime and beyond. And, uh, this Colt caught my eye. He came from well in the back of the pack and a five for on made in special way to Del Mar encountered significant trouble, looked like he was making a winning move at the three 16th pole and got absolutely clobbered inside.

The eighth pole still came running. He was third, not threatening for the win, but galloped out huge. And it was visually impressive to me that I thought could have been a quietly, uh, Discreet play approach. Hector Palm, literally within minutes of the grand Del Mar and, uh, within about 48, 72 hours, we, we worked a deal out to, uh, have a clips come in for a, uh, a significant portion of the ownership.

Very cool. Give us the rundown on what’s happened since then. So since then we sprinted him twice with Hector. After that you ran into a really good tap at Colt at Del Mar that. Great magician ran to the wire and just got edged out, uh, by a Baffert topical there brought him back at Santa Anita. We thought we just wanted one more, try to sprint.

And before we stretched them out to two turns and. He ran into him probable and he was third to improbable that Dan wasn’t distressed. So he held incredible form around one turn. At that point, he had run some pretty decent figures and a couple partners of ours, very sharp and shrewd guys, Adam Wachtell and Gary Barber approached me and said, how can we get into this horse?

Hector was our other partner, uh, on the Colt. And he was training him at the time. And, uh, this is the kind of horse detector had always wanted to get his hands on and he was reluctant to sell, but we negotiated a deal for Adam and Gary to be able to join eclipse in the partnership. And we transferred them over to Pete Miller.

First time out around two turns at Del Mar in the fall for Pete. He went off the screen by nine and change. And, uh, you know, from there we thought, well, this is the cult. We always thought he’d be around two turns. We ran him in the sham in January. Everything kind of went wrong for him. His first couple of races of the season.

He was stuck down on a dead rail in the sham and got run down by gunmetal gray, but wasn’t disgraced. Then we ran him in an allowance, race thinking we’d give him a confidence builder. He hit a sloppy track. We sent him on the occasion because we thought that speed was King on the day. And that was our best chance to win.

We had it all wrong. He wanted nothing to do with it. I think he went 45 and changed to the half mile pole and ended up fourth. We regrouped sent him back to Laurel. To run in the miracle would around a one turn mile. And he was a deceptively good second behind a really good horse and always mining. And after that we knew look cut below probably the upper echelon of three-year-olds in the country, but he was improving albeit under the radar.

And we were intent on trying to make a money run at Dubai and, uh, with the exception of plus K parfait, getting through inside the 16th full and nipping us inside, you know, 50 yards of the wire, everything went really well over there and he made the move forward that we thought he would and came home with a.

Boatload it did everything. But when in that spot, as they say, and certainly, uh, earned a shot at this prize in your position, how much does it mean to you to have a runner in a race like the Kentucky Derby? Well, look, it’s, it’s the most coveted race on the planet and while our. Partnership program is certainly designed with the intent of participating in not just participating in, but competing for and winning the biggest races in the world.

Um, you know, we’re not. Particularly geared around the Derby. Uh, that’s just the tough way to develop a stable and sustain yourself with your partners. For the long haul, we do buy horses with classic aspirations and intentions and profiles. Um, but it’s a very small portion of our stable. So this is our eighth year in existence and this’ll be the fourth horse that we’ve qualified for the Derby.

Uh, but at the same time, we don’t want to just show up. For the sake of showing up and saying that we had a horse in the Derby, is it an incredible experience for our partners to have? Absolutely. But we’d like to think that our guys a little are a little bit more sophisticated than that. And if we do show up, we want to do so with a loaded gun.

And look, we realize the reality that he’s, you know, pretty far down on the depth chart in terms of. You know, his visibility in this race and, and probably where the public perceives perceives him to be, um, which is why we’ve taken a wait and see approach to see how he’s come back from Dubai and try to get a really strong gauge on his energy levels, his appetite, his attitude, body language, so on and so forth.

So look, he breezed well this past Saturday, that was step one. And we’re going to breeze them again on Saturday and put him to a bit more pressure to try to get a more accurate, uh, You know, barometer of where he stands and look, it’s, it’s a hard race to pass up. We know he gets the distance, which is a huge key as it relates to the Derby.

And he’s an improving Colt in this time of year. You know, when three-year-old Colts get good, there’s no telling where their ceiling is. And look, he’s a few points away on numbers from being with the upper. Tier of, of forces that are expected to run in the race. But if we move forward a couple of points and get the distance and a couple of the heavyweights regressive tick and.

You know, hit a brick wall at the eighth pole, which a lot of good horses over the course of time have been wanting to do under the twin spires. You know, he might be in with a fighter shot to make a, to make an impact on the race. Aaron, I got a, a couple of questions. Um, I had noticed before you guys went to Dubai work, uh, Peter worked in a mile twice leading up to that, wanted to get kind of the feedback on, on, on Pete thought.

Uh, when it came to that. And then also the most important question we got to figure out is which two-year-olds we Bette on at Dell. Margaret is sitting to Michael McCarthy. Yeah. That’s a loaded bunch of questions there, Jonathan, but, uh, yeah, you know, what we knew going into Dubai was that we needed a really fit force and we were shipping in almost two weeks ahead of the race.

So Pete, you know, he’s really in tune with his animals and he knows what they can tolerate and yeah. When to push the accelerator and when to come off the gas and, uh, his attitude going to do by was he really wanted a fit horse because we knew how hot it was going to be. We knew how taxing of a journey over there would be.

So he really didn’t want to have to do too much with him in those. Seven to 10 days leading up to the race. So, you know, getting him fit at San Louis ran ahead of the UAE Derby was goal number one, and then just to have a fresh horse or the freshest horse we could have once he got over there. So that was the design there, leading up to the UAE Derby.

I think now that he’s had that test was fit going over there had a mile and three-sixteenths race where he ran really well there. We’ve taken a little bit different approach now, and we’ve just sort of tried to keep him fresh and happy knowing that the foundation is already there. It’s, you know, there’s no formula for coming over from Dubai and being able to succeed in the Derby.

Nobody’s done it yet. I don’t think anybody’s even shown up, um, with a half decent performance. So, you know, we’re just trying to do our best. And, and Pete is with this horse every day inside and out, you know, to. To feel our way through it and figure out what’s the best way to get them there. If we do decide to, uh, as far as our two year olds for Del Mar, um, you know, no, I just left Peyton training center.

I was with Michael McCarthy. We saw a couple babies that, uh, that were intending to. Get to California sooner rather than later. And, uh, there’s a couple of quality road fillies that hopefully we’ll be ready to debut sometime this summer and make a name for themselves. So we’ll, uh, refrain from getting too far ahead of ourselves.

Their crop is going to make some noise when it matters. Aaron, thank you so much for your time today. We will be talking to you again soon. All right guys. Good luck in the Derby. And at long last, that’s going to do it for this episode of the, in the money players podcast, the monster pod, Kentucky Derby preview.

I’d thank everyone who appeared, but boy, that would just take too long. Let me just say thank you. From the bottom of my heart to our 23 guests and to JK, most of all, thanks to all of you, the listeners who make these podcasts so much fun to do this show has been a production of in the money media, in the money media’s business manager is drew Kotani.

I’m Peter Thomas for the towel. We will see you next time. May you win all your Kentucky Derby photos.

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