Players’ Podcast — December 15, 2020 — Listener Appreciation Show

PTF and JK are here to answer YOUR listener questions.

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***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is our show for Tuesday. December 15th. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign Forna. Tau back with you in the Brooklyn bunker. Once again, in the midst of this holiday season, this is something we’d like to do from time to time. Unfortunately. Uh, Mugsy the handicapping Labrador, huge fan of these shows, as you can hear, unfortunately, we haven’t really had that much time to do them this year because we’ve been so busy, but this is one of our it call it a listener appreciation show, hashtag ask ITM show.

We’ve done some of these with voicemails as time has gone on, but where the programming is really provided by you, the listeners, a lot of fun, we got a lot of great questions for the show, really looking forward to it. Uh, [00:01:00] before I bring in the co-host, I just have to say. We’ve done now. I don’t know, going back to 2014, I’m just estimating here.

But if you factor in all of the shows we’ve done for like lone star and stuff like that, we’ve probably done, I don’t know, 700 podcasts. This is the single most difficult one we’ve ever had getting, going with the technology. Not quite sure why, but anyway, I think we have worked our way around it now. And now we will bring in the man who hails from the planet, Texas.

And we know him as the people’s champion, nearly. The breeders’ cup betting challenge champion, but, uh, that honor was denied in a, in a well-known story that we’ll probably get to at some point during this show, of course, I’m talking about Jonathan kinship, JK what’s up. PTF. Uh, what’s the word? Yeah. And you were, uh, we were struggling a little bit.

Weren’t we to get rolling here? Desperate, desperate seeds. And I really, the bad news is we didn’t solve anything in the big picture of life. So like, I just know now this’ll be waiting for us the next time [00:02:00] we want to do a show, but hopefully these. You know, th th this lo-fi set up today, won’t offend anybody too much.

Uh, the, the native microphone in the, in the Mac is, is pretty good. Unlike a hi, I recorded a couple of shows the other week where I kind of forgot about the quality between Mac and PC microphone. And I just sounded God awful, but you know, it shouldn’t be as bad as that we should be back headed in the right direction.

Now. Uh, what’s going on, man? What have you been up to. Um, nothing much. Do you know the Fox shows or pause for the moment we picked back up? And I think February, there’s been some talk about maybe a little earlier than that, so, uh, we’ll keep an eye on that, but, uh, she’s been hanging out, man. Really? It’s been, it’s been a.

It’s feel the weather has been really nice here in Texas still. And he was like 80 something the other day. So the sun still comes out and plays. It was a little bit chillier the last few days. So maybe just hanging out and getting ready for the, for the holidays. And, and then, uh, and then the new year that I think we’ve all been waiting for.

What is your [00:03:00] racing interest mainly at this time of year? Are you in a little bit of a pause? Are you like me looking excitedly at New York everyday? And the good cards they’ve been putting together? Are you a Tampa early adopter? How do you allocate your wagering dollars and attention? Yeah, I catch myself like looking at a lot of PPS and like not finding a lot of things that, you know, bent backs or more trip horses or, or, you know, young, you know, two year olds or whatever.

So, um, you know, I thought, I thought Gulf stream was pretty good. Last weekend. I had a couple of steaks, um, you know, uh, Our friends and Matisse brothers and, and, uh, rich Avril ran panty price for the last time. Last Friday, I tuned into that. They won the grade three with ladies Island on Saturday. So I was checking that out.

And then, and then ATM, uh, Anthony Materra, our buddy that, uh, that came on for the Stronick show. When you were out a couple of weeks ago, they had a horse, uh, our audio’s Jersey, that one first out for them. And so I, you know, I was checking out [00:04:00] Gulf stream and then also, obviously there’s those stakes as well on, on Saturday.

So. And then aqueduct always, you know, I’m so plugged in with Naya now with, with doing the shows and being up there for Saratoga. Um, I find myself. Playing more New York than I used to in the past, you know, and just, it was just another track now. And it’s almost kind of turned into my home circuit just cause I looked at it so much.

It makes sense. And also just to help you down the line, you’ll be talking about these horses all year. So you got to get aligned on what the form is at this time of year to help understand what’s going to happen a little bit of a little bit later. That makes absolutely perfect sense to me. We’re going to do a little bit shorter.

We lost some time because of the tech mess ups. I’ve got a hard out. Because I’ve got a lunch in the city, uh, I’m doing a, uh, a socially distant lunch with Harvey pack. Uh, so I’m excited to get the opportunity to see him. But anyway, that’s why we might go a little short if we don’t get to all the questions and we might not because there are so darn many of them, we [00:05:00] will do another one of these before the holidays comes.

Not a whole lot of recapping to do in my opinion, the next few weekends, so that this could be a good early show bit. Other stuff we have planned. We’re going to do an eclipse show later in the week. Are you excited for that? I am. I’m excited. Looking forward to that did, uh, did kind of a little, little eclipse preview in one category yesterday with my JK plus one episode that we’ll release, right.

I’m going to release it right after we get done recording this. So, uh, it should come up Tuesday morning, depending on when you hear this. But I’m looking forward to that. I had, uh, Randy Hill and George Weaver on to talk about McComber and, uh, you know, that horse and then also just their involvement in the game.

And, and, uh, so I had an hour with each of them and, and that was fun. And then, yeah. Uh, to make the ask ITM questions even more interesting, Pete, I don’t know if you noticed this yet, but ITM Tanzania limited, we offer services and human resource solutions, training recruitment, and business to business solutions in Tanzania, in Africa, they are also [00:06:00] ITM and they have asked ideas.

That’s so funny. I didn’t know the Tanzanian connection. That’s very exciting. Yeah, they’re, they’re gonna they’re they’re, they’re hiring a sales manager. If you’re interested. There you go. So you can go on there. You can ask JK about how we use this pace in his handicapping and did apply for a position in Tanzania.

It’s like many birds with one stone here with the ask ITM, Ash tech. I was wondering why there were so many messages today. Um, let’s do this a little differently. Usually I just kind of moderate, but let’s, uh, let’s bandy back and forth. Since we have so many questions. I have some that aren’t from the Twitter as well.

That we’ll try to get to, but w why don’t you kick us off? What’s what’s a listener question. You feel like answering. Yeah. Uh, well, we’ll start with the first one at horsing around, uh, w a asked two questions. We’ll go with the easy one first and then the harder one the first, well, the second one, actually, if you look at it, is Hamilton on Disney plus alone on Netflix or Queen’s gambit on Netflix.

And the answer is all three of them. They’re all good. Hamilton’s great. On Disney plus. Um, I tried to watch it with Austin. He got a little bit [00:07:00] bored. It does go a little bit over the younger ones heads. Cause they have no idea what the hell is going on, but he was still kind of interested in the, in the sounds of it.

Um, uh, alone on Netflix is really good. What is that? I don’t even know that one. Essentially they, they, they drop off like 12 people in the same kind of wilderness climate, but they’re not in connection with each other and they get like 10 items to bring along with them and then they just have to survive.

And the longest one, whoever stays the longest wins the money, but they don’t know who they don’t know if there’s 12 people left. If it’s down to two, they don’t know if they’re the only one. And so it’s a reality show. It’s really, but it’s. Yeah, but it’s not like corny game reality show. It’s just straight up.

You’re either making it or you’re not. And if you’re not, you quit, they come pick you up and you leave or you stay as long as you can. Uh, and they’re hunting squirrels and all kinds. It’s cool. Cool. And then the Queens game, but obviously I’m sure you’ve heard of his, I’ve actually seen that one and loved it.

Yeah. Really good. Yeah, really good book from [00:08:00] back in the day. And then, uh, it’s got some, some fantastic, uh, casting in there. Other, the creator, Scott, Frank has done a number of good things. And then, uh, Andrea Taylor, Joyce, just a, it’s fantastic to watch how she plays that character for, you know, like a 10 year span completely.

I told someone you wouldn’t. You wouldn’t be a, the show would not be nearly as good as they would have cast someone else. Like, part of it is like, she’s just like, it’s, she’s like captivating, you know, in a way just her, her, even when her like non-verbal movements are just so interesting. Um, the other question down in class, up in class, now this is something that is.

It’s always been kind of tricky because the condition books and in North America can get so confusing with this, that, that the other, the orders and all of that stuff. One of the things you can do, if you really want to understand this is it’s easier. If you’re at one circuit is to write in an Excel sheet, put all of the conditions you can find and just go, go, go, [00:09:00] go, go, go, go.

And if you, you can do some back research and try to get average. Pays for, I mean, average figures for that class. That’s one way to go about it, to try to understand whether or not this is a higher class or a lower class, so on or so forth. And then the other thing, the easy thing you can do is just go to you.

Can, you know, time form us with our race ratings. I have found to be pretty effective when trying to identify if there’s a change in class, um, when it comes to allowances and claimers and, um, And, you know, I think it gets confusing when you have the beaten claimers, right? The non winners of two, the non winners of three, the so on and so forth.

But, um, I’ve kind of gotten wrapped my brain around those. Obviously the non winners of one is easier than the non winners are two, which is easier than the non winners of three. And the hardest is an open. Claiming 10. So, you know, it’s so, because anyone can run in that. And so it’s tough. It’s tough. But if you’re having a tough time [00:10:00] with it horsing around waa, I would cheat with Tom form us.

Yeah. That’s the easiest thing I wrote down two notes, as you were talking, one is using par figures for the different classes and yes, the buyer team doesn’t provide them if there’s under a certain amount of races, but you can do it yourself and you can, you can estimate and use, um, You know, your intuition to make educated guesses about what the par would be.

And you could even do it just looking at the given horses in an individual race, if you really need something quick and dirty. So the par figures for each class and then the time form. But the other note I wrote was Typeform us race ratings is a great way to, cause that’s not just looking at the class that is doing some work about the specific group of horses.

And, you know, not all maidens from Saratoga are going to have the same race rating. They’re going to be adjusted up or down based on what that group of horses does. So in a way it’s more useful information to me. So that actually, if it’s a circuit, you’re in it, you don’t ever play. Like if you’re playing, you [00:11:00] know, a, you know, pick five, carry over it.

It who cares downs. It helps. I’m trying to get them as a sponsor. Actually it helps when, you know, you know, you can try to help identify where that is. Good stuff. I had a, I’ll go to one that didn’t use the hashtag, but we’ll let it in off the goalpost from Andrew doing a bourbon exchange with some friends and looking for recommendations on a bottle in the 45 to $75 range.

First one that came to mind for me, a bottle. I think we’ve talked about on here before. There’s a lot of different four roses iterations out there, but there’s one that I absolutely love called small batch select. It’s a blend of like four different old barrels and it just came out amazing and it’s very reasonably priced and you also can find it places.

You know, I could give you a bunch of, I could sit here and talk about, you know, Dicko bottled in bond, you know, good luck finding that anywhere near the MSRP. Like this four [00:12:00] roses, small batch select, you can find, um, I’m a big fan of wilderness trail. They’ve got a couple of different iterations. The one I really like has rye in the mash bill.

They have a weeded one, which is also good, but the one with Ryan, the mash bill, I think it’s going to sit. Right in that price range, something different and really interesting. And again, you can find it and I will give you one that might be harder to find, but I’m a big fan of that old Forester distillers row series.

So it’s like these different historical recipes and things. And the two that I really like are, I mean, I like them all. I like all four, but the 1910. Is excellent. It’s their take on sort of the, the double Oaked idea. It’s got a secondary aging in a, in a new Oak cask to replicate something that happened after a fire in 1910.

And it’s got those like really sweet, lovely barrel notes. Um, I really like the 90 10 and then the 1920, [00:13:00] this is a great little historical tidbit JK. This is whiskey that was legal. During prohibition because it was, it was deemed to be medicine and it’s, it’s at a higher proof and it’s very intense and good if you like higher proof stuff that 1920 the prohibition.

Recipe’s great. Anyway, there’s are a few ideas of bourbons in that, in that price range. Uh, JK, have you gotten into that, that bottle of bourbon I sent you recently? No, I’m, I’m saving that one. I got to let that one. Uh, I’m gonna let that one marinate for a little while. I will say this. Um, and I don’t think I’ve even told you this, Pete, now I’ll send you the article.

I’m sure you’ll love it. I, uh, was sending our friend Jake ballast a thank you. And I sent him a bottle of bourbon. Called Garrison brothers. And it’s a Texas whiskey first legal Texas. And, uh, I did it, you know, cause Jake’s from Texas, but I also didn’t, you know, it had a nice reviews and I said, Jake absolutely loves it.

He said, I wish you would have never done that. I can’t stop getting it. That’s [00:14:00] all I buy now. And it’s a really cool story because it is in Texas. And I do know I get it. The bourbon, not in, you know, gotta be in Kentucky thing. It’s it’s um, It’s it’s it’s, it’s just really cool. What they found out is that some of the in Kentucky, some of the barrels that do the best are the ones that, or the highest in the barn, which means they get the most heat from the roof.

And obviously in Texas, it’s hot as hell. And so it’s helped with, you know, with the whole process. And it’s a really cool story. So Garrison brothers read about it. It’s really, really interesting. I’ve heard good things that I haven’t tried it. And that’s gonna motivate me to, uh, to look for it a little bit more.

I had sent you the maker’s Mark. It was a special bottling of maker’s Mark. I can’t remember what the specific labels. The specific writing on the label was it was one of their 20, 20 limited release bottles. Good luck finding it. I know it, it took me forever. Uh, but I did eventually find your bottle. We were drinking that there’s that great bourbon bar at keenly.

I can’t wait [00:15:00] to go back and check this place out. You can get. All of these whiskeys, that would be like $2,000 a bottle. If you could find them for, you know, the around 30 a shot, you know, Eagle rare 18 and things like that. And for whatever reason, I was like, Hey, let’s try this. And you, you, you, that was right when you hit your stride.

In the breeders cup betting challenge. So we just, I just kept, I kept feeding it to you for those last couple of races and, uh, so yeah, to commemorate your fantastic results in the BCBC, I was able to find that bottle and send it to you. You gotta let me know if it’s as good now as it was on the day when we get the, when we get the chance, uh, anything else on, on whiskey J K or should I move on?

I’ve got another one. Ready if you’re, if you go ahead, go ahead. So. This is a breeders cup betting challenge question. And it actually came in through Eric Bilich and I thought it was worth talking about, because it’s just, just such an interesting market dynamic question. Is he pointed out [00:16:00] that if so, basically for those that don’t know in the Breeder’s cup betting challenge, JK achieved his fantastic final score by doing an all in Dutch double.

Combining, I think it was four horses in the breeders’ cup turf with four horses in the class. And he did that. I say Dutch double. It was using Dutch principles, but weighted, according to his opinion, Eric pointed out that if you had taken the money bet in the double on Tarnoff Iowa. So let’s say there was.

I’m just making this up. You, you might know what was it like 50,000 of it might’ve gone through Tarnow. Does that sound right? Right. If you’d taken that money and bet it to when you’re actually right. Would have ended up with a significantly better score, uh, closer, closer to 200,000. And he was just, he was asking for, for comment on you.

Go ahead. Yeah. So one of the things that, and it’s actually great, we talked about, I sent the, I tweeted that article and I sent it to the, to our group text about [00:17:00] resulting. And that, to me, that is a perfect example of resulting because yes, resulting whole thing is by looking at the results and then question, and then doubting your method of getting to that decision and whether or not that was a bad decision or a good decision based on the results you can’t in this game.

And in other games and other parts of life, you cannot. You cannot make, you cannot judge your decision making process based on the result on a one off result. And so here’s, here’s the reason why here’s the answer to that question for Eby is if the problem is, is that authentic was not my top choice.

Authentic was my third choice who I actually faded a little bit when doing the math to do the double, my strong opinion was, uh, improbable and Tom’s to TA which both. Put me well above. If I remember correctly, I think they both put me above 300 or one puts me at two 50. The other one puts me at 300.

[00:18:00] Either way, if either one of those two horses who were my top choices, when I make more than if I would’ve just bet Karnala, that’s a good point and there’s more to it. So it just, it, it actually, I shot for the stars and landed in the clouds with authentic. That was not that I was not, you know, he was like kind of my, my third or fourth choice.

The other thing though is Tarnower paid like crazy well and not predictably. So. On the tote. And it’s funny because early in the week, I remember I think it was a seven to two morning line and it, the horse was, she was seven to two, four to one in the bedding in the UK. And you know, I, obviously anybody who heard the shows knew from early on, she was going to be one, I was betting.

So I was monitoring that very closely and having, you know, nearly daily conversations with Rob dove, one of the top 10 pro punters in the UK today about when we should. You know, bet this thing. And we actually bet, um, not early in the week, but I think it was like early on Friday. [00:19:00] Cause we were starting to think that the seven to two was going to go into three to one, the way people were betting on betting exchanges, et cetera.

So we ended up just going ahead and taking the seven to too early. So then w which is funny, cause I do remember early on thinking. Yeah, she’ll probably drift on the tope, but then she was so strong in the international markets. I thought, you know, seven to two, four to one, maybe in the tote. And you know, when you’re betting the kinds of money that you were betting, if you get seven to two instead of nine to two, I don’t think anybody’s going to be second guessing the way that you, the way that you put that, the way that you put that money through, does that make, does that make sense to you?

No. Of course. Yeah, no. I mean, it’s, you know, a lot of it is hindsight, right. In a situation like that. I wanted, you know, if, if I, if I was gonna, you know, kind of hindsight the thing, and then my, my thought would have been, what if I would’ve just [00:20:00] done those doubles without using those without being scared?

Cause I didn’t love magical. Um, but I used defensively. I thought channel maker could win, but was up against, it would have to have a perfect scenario. And then, uh, the horse who’s the 10 Mo who’s it mogul smoker and mogul was, I did like mobile. Um, and I wanted to use mogul. I could’ve got away with Tarnow and mogul and probably still one, but that’s all, but I’m resulting here, right?

Like, yeah. I don’t think it would have been smart to leave magical out. I think I really would have questioned that. I, I, I, if you’d asked me, I would’ve said, yeah, fade channeled Laker, no USA horse is going to hit the top three in here. It was exactly what I would have said. Now having said that I would have been, uh, potentially needing to change clothes at the eighth pole.

You know, like the way the restart out showed that, even though I was right, that no American hit the board, I feel like after watching the race. The defensive move was probably the right move. Given how long into the race, the horse, the horse looked like winning, you know, so [00:21:00] it’s, it’s, it’s tricky and you’re, you’re making these split second decisions and, and, you know, with magical, I just feel like on, I mean, uh, on class, on form, on everything you’re supposed to, you’re supposed to keep her in the mix there.

So I, I think, I think that all works. There’s another aspect to this though, that I think is interesting and. Potentially strategic, which is, if you do hit the wind bet, then you’re sitting out there with this new target for everybody to shoot for. And right. It really feels like a lot of the best players are in that last race are just looking at what the target number is and trying to get there.

So it’s also possible. I don’t know. This is just the in theory. I’m not trying to apologize for you too much, but it’s also possible that you put up that new target people play that last race. You know, Marshall grant plays that last race completely differently and maybe he hits it bigger colder, you know?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Right. Um, here’s a good one. This is fun. [00:22:00] Um, if you had to make a calendar by racetracks and meats in which you would only go to that track for the month, what would your calendar look like? For example, in August, you could only do Saratoga, but would need to select another track for July.

This is fun. All right. Um, I’ll need your help a little bit before January, I would do goals. Yeah, I think, I think that’s right. I think that’s, I mean, you could, you could, you could make a fairgrounds case, but I mean, let’s, let’s go to the sunshine February. I would do. Uh, I want to say I would do. Okay February, I would do.

Oh, no, not Oakland. Get there later. What about Santa Anita for January Gulf stream for February? When are we going to get to, we got to get to Santa Anita at some point the Pegasus. So I went to Pegasus. I want to go to, I want to go to say, I want to go to Gulf stream and in January let’s say Santa Nita in February.

Okay. Okay. Let’s go to Oaklawn and March. [00:23:00] I’m good with that. And then we’ll go to, uh, Keene Lynn and April. That was the easiest. One of them all. We’ll go to Churchill and may I’m okay with that, but that’s not good. That’s not controversial. J K watch this though. Oh, we’ll go to other diseases. We’re going to Belmont in June.

This is beautiful. We’ll go to, uh, we’ll we’ll look. The first part of the month, we’ll be in some trouble will not have much to do, but we’ll go to Del Mar in July. Cause they open, they usually open a week earlier than Saratoga so we can have that whole open of the meat. Yeah. But we’ll check out some breweries and go to the beach, learn to surf.

You know, there’s plenty to do out there in North County. Yup. And then August we go to.

Okay. In a one to 10 million for your now September. What if we go to Woodbine? Woodbine, baby. Beautiful, beautiful October. We’ve already used Caitlin. Yeah, we can’t go back to Keeneland. [00:24:00] You know, here’s where February can get tricky. If we, in October, if we use Santa Anita in October. Ooh, that’s interesting.

And then maybe fairgrounds for February fairgrounds for February, or we could do. Uh, we can do, we can do aqueduct for February. They got all the good three old races. Yeah. I mean, New York in February though. If I’m, if I’m drawing, if I’m thinking about my travel year, uh, you know, as much as I love, uh, the New York racing circuit, but I’m thinking where I’d rather be at February, it’s, I’m going to probably pick new Orleans over February.

Oh, that’s, that’s awesome. What if we go back to San Anita for February and then in October, is that w what European meet should we go? Oh, I didn’t know that we had that. I didn’t know. I didn’t know that we had that as, as a possibility. It’s tough, of course. Cause you know, we’re only going to get a few days here and there, but you could hit ask it for champions day.

Well, there it is. That’s an interesting thought November. Um, I think this one can just be wherever the breeders’ cup is. Yep. Wait, just follow the breeders cup around and we’ll rejigger the whole schedule to [00:25:00] get there. So yeah, that would mess us off. Yeah. Uh, that, that might be your aqueduct, you know, a little Christmas in New York.

See the tree the whole bit. Yes, that’s nice. That’s nice. I’m with you on that. Um, I’m going to hate that. I don’t get Santa Anita opening day, but I could deal with it. That was a good question. Yeah, that was a very good question. Yeah. Obviously there’s a million different ways you can go there. But I think as, as a first blush, as a first blush, we’ll take that one.

Do you have another one ready? Uh, let’s see. Uh, no, I’m just going to read it. I don’t know if it’s good or not. Uh, this is Oh, and that was from Ryan Caulkins, uh, at R Y C a L K Y. Um, and then this one is from, at Barchie man, be a R C H Y M a N. Was there anything racing, non racing or both that you were.

Compelled to give up during this year that has turned out to be beneficial so that you don’t see yourself going back to it. I don’t know what that means. I think just like the way our lifestyles have changed, um, you know, is there, [00:26:00] I mean, I miss so many things. I miss traveling, I’ll say this, you know, as much as I miss traveling and dining out and stuff like that.

And as much as I’ve rediscovered, you know, Wanting to wanting to cook and do like homebody type stuff as a result. I will say this, I want to achieve a little bit more balanced going forward. Not like the crazy travel that life once was, but not, um, obviously wouldn’t willingly go through the, the restrictions that we’ve had to deal with in 2020, but you know, most of the things I just miss, you know, th th there’s not a lot that there’s nothing that leaps to mind for me in that category.

What about you? Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I went from I’ve flown. Twice this year. Well not, I flown twice since March. Um, and since 2015, that number at this point would be, you know, closer to a hundred already at this point. So that’s been interesting. I’ve been home a lot more and that’s been nice, [00:27:00] but at the same time, like I do miss.

I miss doing and miss doing, you know, I’m ready to do. And I’ve joked that as soon as all this thing kind of clears up, you’re, it’s gonna be hard to keep. I’m not even going to unpack my suitcase. I’m going to want to be moving around. Um, but that’ll probably die off pretty quickly though. You got that, uh, that, that road, the call of the road.

Very important thing in JK. So if we had a question about music, uh, the different music on shows on the network, I’m not sure if I can tell you all of them, but, uh, we had a specific one about the song at the end of these in the money players podcast. And that one’s easy. That’s racetrack by my friend, Nick County.

I used to live with him. In Saratoga and other old sour Toga roommate who has gone on to a successful career as a musician and wrote this great song about going to the racetrack and you hear it at the end of every show. If you want more from Nick County, you can look him up. He’s got music out there on Spotify, et cetera, but I also did.

I think I did a [00:28:00] basically an hour or half hour sit down with him at some point where he played some music live and, uh, and we had a great time. And there was a question specifically JK about the song that kicks off the J K plus one shows where you found it, who’s it by et cetera. Yeah, it’s, uh, it’s called it’s funny.

Like I’ve seen different versions of it. I’m not sure exactly how it works, but let me just tell you what we did. We, we subscribed to this music, stock music, uh, website, because if you have. You know, if we, even, if we use one of my brother’s songs, his label would block it for copyright and then it gets taken down off of YouTube or it gets blocked on Apple podcasts, whatever.

So you have to have a song that you actually have the rights to so that they don’t do that. And so we pay, you know, whatever it is yearly to use a song we were going through. And I found that curious George song, and it’s listed that it’s by Onyx. Not the band Onyx that I don’t think the band Onyx that we all remember from the nineties, you know, the one that’s saying jump out a little [00:29:00] different, right?

Yeah. But, but I’ve also seen someone who found the song on Apple music under someone else’s name. And I can’t remember who it is. I’ll find someone to tweet it, but I want to say like, Nick, anyways, it’s weird, but it’s, this song is listed as Bionics, but I think it might be signed by someone else who actually has it on like a different situation.

And that’ll a link if you can. Cause I think a lot of people would be interested in the name of the song was curious, George though, I will say that. I didn’t know that I was going to guess that I think I would have got that in one. And you mentioned your brother who you do here on the, in the money network.

Uh, at the beginning of red board rewind, how did that, how did that one work around the copyright issue you mentioned before we just hoping that nobody notices, I dunno, I, I didn’t, I asked his manager, um, if it was cool and I think she, maybe she asked someone at Sony and they said it was fine, but I don’t feel like they like really went around.

I don’t think, I don’t know. I don’t, I don’t know exactly how the other shoe to drop on that one. In other words, Spencer, have something else already. That manager’s since [00:30:00] been fired, but, um, we’ll see what happens. Sounds like a whole other story for those that don’t know. Uh, cause we have new listeners all the time.

According to the stats, we look at J K his brother, famous DJ MK and produced, not just the DJ, also a producer. So that’s what that’s, that’s what that’s about. Uh, what else you got for us, Jay? I think we got a few more here. Yeah, let’s see. Um, here’s a question that you maybe you’ll know the answer faster, um, newbie, horse racing question.

What’s the easiest non no-cost way to find out about takeout for a race that seems important for people to understand. I, I do know if I’m not mistaken. I have seen on an wager that they do show that, Oh, they do. I mean, uh, the Hannah website course. It’s updated though. Okay. But it’s not updated. No good starting point.

Yeah. You could also email all the folks over there and I bet they would have all the info you’re looking for. That’s HorsePlayers of North America. If you do, you know, Hannah horse racing or [00:31:00] something, you’ll be able to find their website and they’ve got that info. Yeah, your, your ADW probably has a table somewhere.

It is a darn shame. It’s not easier. Here’s a project for an enterprising listener. We’re often hearing for people who want to get involved and help out. If somebody wants to be the custodian of this and have this be, I have this vision. For having some horseplayer tools on the site, we haven’t even talked about this yet JK, but like a spreadsheets to help with organizing your betting thoughts, et cetera, with the news that a ticket maker is going to be going behind a payroll paywall.

I was wondering if there might be an enterprising listener out there, you know, who you are, who might be willing to share that. Um, it’s, it’s going to be the DRF it’s going behind the DRF plus paywall. So if you bet a certain amount of DRF, not an option for you in Texas, or if you, I think it’s like 20 a month, but I was thinking it might be good if we [00:32:00] could just put up a, you know, it wouldn’t be as good as the proper ticket maker.

Cause it’s not going to feed in towed info and you’re not gonna be able to bet directly from it. Right. But something that would give you the tools to at least create the tickets that then you could punch in something like that. Anyway, if we create this sort of horseplayer information area of the site, a takeout table would go really, really well in there.

I should also say that there is a code you can get a free month to, to ease the transition essentially to this, uh, ticket maker going behind the paywall. Uh, there is a promo code you can use to get a free month of it. I gave it on the Stronick show last week. I’ll give it on the Stronach show this week.

I’m scrambling looking to find it and having no success, but anyway that you won’t be left out in the cold, but it is something folks are going to have to think about going forward. Um, is it my turn? Uh, yeah, if you’ve got, if you got one, I got one. Um, what tools do you use for PPE speed figures and video [00:33:00] replays?

That’s the first one. Jack has a series of questions. Well, depending on how much time we spend on the first ones, maybe we’ll get to the other ones. If not Jack, we’ll get to them again. I said, we’ll probably do another one of these shows, uh, before, too long. So tools for PPE speed figures and video replays.

I mean, For me to talk about DRF. I’m very much of a DRF and time form us sky and both time in us time from us, NDRF allow you to access replays right there. Anytime you’re talking about replays, it does make me want to at least think about suggesting the services over at RTN. Uh, they have a bunch of different ways of accessing that stuff that can be useful.

Anything to add from you JK in terms of the data. Yeah. I mean, you know, DRF, uh, time form us, um, print PDF, use it on my iPad. I got the Apple pencil. I use PDF expert is the app that I use on my iPad. Um, workout [00:34:00] reports from DRF national turf out in California. Um, Uh, stats, race lens is good for supplemental, you know, trying to figure out this, that or the other.

Um, I’ve actually kind of, I kind of gone almost lean more to them for like the quick kind of trainer stats, horse stats than I do formulator it. I just it’s a, I mean, they both work, but I I’ve kinda just been messing with, with, uh, stats more recently. So I’ve just kind of stick to that department. Um, Yeah.

And then replace, like you said, always built in right there. RTN account of always, you know, always tell people that it’s a smart investment. Uh, you get every, every channel or every everything in HD on your computer. If you have an HTMI plug on your computer or an HTMI or you have Apple TV, you can stream that.

That, uh, that, that HD feed to your TV, if you want, you can get it on a Roku or whatever, smart TV with Roku. I think you can solve Archie. And I don’t know how much it is a month. [00:35:00] I, but I think, I mean, I think maybe it’s yearly, but anyways, it’s worth it. Speaking of people that should be, uh, should we should be partners with there’s there, there there’s RTN um, here’s the next one?

How do you determine what the pace of a race will be? I’ll give you the quick and dirty on this. And if you were starting out, I think you, you really should. You know, if you’re talking about basic, starting out stuff, the time form us paste projector is great for that stuff. There are other pace projectors out there, but time for me, us, I mean, to me, even now in my handicapping, I would say gets me 75% of the way there.

And then there’s the idea of going through and you got to make mental adjustments based on Ryder switches, knowing which riders on your circuit are likely to grab and or send. That’s not factored into their algorithm at all, that you got to do that. And then also just sometimes I’ll just have a disagreement in terms of running style, um, what a horse has done in the past and the quick and dirty for that.

And I it’s much [00:36:00] more intuitive now, but in my early days as a player, I would actually write in what the, what are called the Kiran. And that’s Q U I R I N speed points, which is a scale from zero to eight. Zero representing a plotter eight representing needs to try to go to the lead every time and between a good pace projector and having, uh, those speed points for each runner.

You can just keep doing that. And you’re going to start envisioning how racists are going to be run, and you’re going to get better at it. The more you understand who’s riding and what their tendencies are and what their ability to be in tune with the racetrack is. And I think, I don’t know if I left you any meat on the bone speed figures.

I’m using time form U S pace figures. And then, um, like, like Pete said, then I look at post position, um, is one of those horses meant to be on the lead, drawn to the, outside, to the inside grape and then trainer writer intent, um, you know, [00:37:00] did this horse get, you know, look, a horse can have crazy fast speed figures in the last three races and has gone to the front and stopped and all of them.

And that fourth race, you might think that they’re going to rate the horse. And, you know, especially if they switched from Kendrick to Joelle. Yeah. You have to, so you have to, you start with the pace figures or your guide, and then you have to use, you know, some critical thinking to identify. What’s going to go from there.

You think about my guests, about the time from us paced projector, getting 75% of the way there does that sound right? Am I overestimating how good it is? Underestimating? Probably be more than that, honestly. Okay. Yeah, you might be right. I was, I was going to go higher and then I busted it back down in my mind.

Before I, before I said the words, how do you determine the difference between an a horse and a B horse JK? Yeah. I mean, that’s, that’s the way, it’s just a feel thing, right? Um, on a horse, the horse that I think presents some value, a horse that, that I think has a good shot of winning in a horse that, um, I can design the race in [00:38:00] which they’re going to win.

B horses are types that I think there is some value there, but they’re clearly their chances of winning. And their level of value clearly aren’t to, to the level of the other three horses that I’ve been using as A’s, I’ll use those as a B type horses that I want to use. That makes sense using, I think you can use the B spot, very sparingly for horses that you’re scared of, but I wouldn’t do it for horses that you’re scared of that are short prices.

Um, that’s your opportunity to make some money. If there’s a short price horse, you don’t like, you’re just scared of. Then you, you know, you try to beat that one in that spot. You can really pick up equity. So it’s a feel thing. There’s no science to it. It’s just identifying chances to win and value. And how important that horses to your team.

Okay. Very quickly, because I think you nailed it. A horses of the horses. I really like in the spot in terms of they represent value and they’re, they, they represent value and, or are likely [00:39:00] winners that are not going to be bad value B horses or backups. Right. But not total fades. Like what you’re describing JK that over bet.

Favorite. Who’s just a horse. You know, I may find ways to even use that horse if I have opinions elsewhere. And I th that, I feel like I can include without equity draining, but I wouldn’t even call those horses be they, they would be, I’d find other ways to, to cover them. But anyway, we could very easily get into a much longer and more in depth conversation here than we have time for.

Um, anyway, Jack, hopefully that’s useful info. He describes himself as a new player and we love to have new players here and encourage questions either on Twitter or, um, you know, w next time we do this, I’d really like to get it going with the voicemail. It’s so fun to be able to hear everybody out there and hear their voices and have them be part of the show.

So Jack, feel free to, to queue up some, uh, some questions, as [00:40:00] far as that goes. What else you got JK? We got the, let’s do five more minutes here. Uh, let’s see. I thought I saw one. That was good. Um, yeah, we can do that. So, um, I suppose, uh, at least I’m not crazy about answering this question. I think it will lead to other situations, a question for both of you, hypothetically, you must add either phone or Parker will Rogers downs to your portfolio of tracks to play in March, 2021.

Which one do you choose and why? Well, first of all, is it the reason you said you didn’t want to answer is because you think it’s, it’s, pre-staging a world in which things don’t progress quite as quickly as we’d like them to, in terms of no return to normalcy in 2021. Is that what you, is that what you were saying there?

Yeah. I mean on Monday and Tuesday next year, I hope I can like, you know, go do something different. I had no use for either. I mean, I’m going to be honest. I just, I just wasn’t able to get my sea legs under me at either at [00:41:00] either track. Um, if you made me pick one, where do you think there’s more crossover with a circuit that we play right here?

We’ll watch for sure. I mean, we’ll watch, you’re going to get horses from Lonestar. You’ll get a horse to shipping over from Oaklawn. Um, you’ll get horses from like Remington, I mean, will Rogers for sure. For me, you know, foreigner is, it’s funny, I’ve been a fonder probably 60 times, but I’ve never, I’ve never seen live racing there.

Cause the times that I was in grand Island, it was never, uh, it was never during the live meet. And, um, you know, I did kind of square off on or after that kind of really annoying disqualification they had when they had that pick five carry over. But yeah, I mean, look, I just prefer. Um, I prefer the world go back to normal and, and, and I’ll be busy with other things, but, you know, will Rogers, for sure it would be the choice that makes sense.

And you’re right, because that crossover with lone star circuit, we do pay close [00:42:00] attention to, I think I would just need some serious coaching up. Maybe I’d try to bribe Paul Matisse to talk to me for an hour with his thoughts about how to play bowl rings. And maybe I, maybe that would really help me get going there.

Um, JK is die hard. A Christmas movie. Um, it’s close. I don’t think so. You could watch diehard in July. I mean, it’s not, have you seen, uh, on Netflix though? There’s this, uh, the movies that made us or something like that or something like that, but it’s a doc it’s like these documentaries about like that home alone.

Um, Uh, dirty dancing. And it goes through just like the complete in-depth behind the scenes, how the movie got made the obstacles they had, who they almost cast instead of this person, how they did this scene, what they did to get the helicopter. It’s a really cool, like behind the scene, you know, how, how we made it deal.

It’s really, that does sound cool. We can rapid fire this next question from [00:43:00] Michael it’s probably too in depth for now. Michael next time I asked for a question to ask this one again, it’s about trying to figure out how many horses to use in each leg in a horizontal bet. Like the Stronick five, Chris, Alarmy introduced a kind of an interesting way of thinking about this on the show we did together last year, but there ain’t no way we’re going to be able to get to this in the time we have.

So we’ll, we’ll come back to that. You know, I, I think I can answer that quickly too. I think that looking for that answer is the wrong way to look at the seat. Okay. Okay. Play the sequence. The sequence tells you how many horses do you use in each leg there, you know, locking yourself into a box with these rules when there’s so many other variables that can use, you can use to decide.

There’s just no answer you. What’s your, what’s your budget. What’s your goal and what’s the sequence, that’s it. And I’ll, I’ll let that, I’ll let that work as the answer there a question about if our paywall was successful for Breeder’s cup, I would say [00:44:00] absolutely. We seem to have a lot of satisfied customers enough so that I’m looking at doing, um, some other stuff for, you know, again, everything that’s free is always going to be free, but there might be some more premium type content maybe starting earlier in the year in 2021.

But again, nothing, nothing. That’s going to take away. Of what people have become accustomed to getting for free. And then a question about getting more whiskey. I, I just started plants on it. So we’re out of the first batch of whiskey. There. There’s no more of that, but we debuted it. It wound up being an accident that we debuted it for Derby day, but that’s when it ended up happening.

So I was thinking maybe why not do it again for this year’s Derby? I’m going to be going upstate actually tomorrow. Um, meet with Rick Sakari the distiller. I have a couple of fun plans maybe to do a finished whiskey this time around. I’ve always thought that rye being the classic New York spirit and apples being such a New York thing that to do arrive finished in like an Apple Jack barrel, like spent [00:45:00] four months in there.

We could debut it for the Derby and then we’ll have, you know, the rest of the year to raise some money. For the, for the TRF. So we appreciate, appreciate that question. Here’s one for you, JK. What’s the best steakhouse in the U S. Ooh. I mean, look, I think Peter Luger’s is something special. Um, the food’s great.

I kind of liked the atmosphere. It feels like New York, you know, you’re in New York, you feel a little bit, you know, kind of rushed. They’re not like overly, they’re not like overly nice, you know, it’s just like, Hey man, come on. Let’s, you know, let’s do this. And the food’s phenomenal. So in the times I’ve gone, it’s always been good company and like, You know, we usually go on Belmont Eve and it’s just, I, I’m a big fan of that spot of our tradition of going to the great neck location Belmont week.

And I, and I wouldn’t trade it. But, uh, my favorite steakhouse is, um, my man, Joe Carol’s place in Williamsburg, [00:46:00] not too far from the original Peter Luger location St. Anselm, I’ll give them, I’ll give them a shout out. And anytime we’re talking steak houses, this is a horse racing show. Don’t we have to give a little bit of love to a Arroyo chop house, where we have had many, many fantastic sometimes victory celebration, sometimes just, uh, opportunities to, to hang out, drink good wine and cocktails with delicious, uh, delicious steaks with friends that one’s out in Pasadena within an easy, uh, get from San Antonio.

Perrin has joined us parent come say hi to everybody. Hello, you have a quick question for me.

Uh, there’s a yoga mat. There’s a yoga mat in that box right there. If you want to grab it and head on up. All right. There’s parents cameo for the, for the, for the week. She’ll be back. Actually. We’re going to, I’m going to run. We’re doing a holiday music special. That’s going to run on my dad’s old radio [00:47:00] show, mixed bag currently hosted by his handpicked successor, Don McGhee.

And we do a Christmas takeover every year. I’m going to go ahead and customize that a little bit and we’ll run it on here. I’ll probably drop that on, uh, on Christmas Eve. Uh, speaking of shows that are going to drop around Christmas Eve, that’ll be our two year anniversary of going independent from our friends at DRF JK.

What, what do you think we got it. We got to do some handicapping for opening day at Santa Anita only. Oh, no doubt. Absolutely. I’m looking forward to that. I’ll be locked and loaded. Ready to go. So that’s, uh, one of my favorite days it’s too bad. We won’t be able to get out there. Yeah. You’ve been to a whole bar.

How many have you been to over the years? Say Anthony? Seven, eight, six, seven, eight. Um, Austin’s been there probably four he’s. He can really, he could build up quite a record given his what’s he, what’s he asking Santa for this year? Uh, you mean he’s still, he’s still into these into games. You’ve been playing this game [00:48:00] called brawl stars on his iPad.

Uh, got him a bunch of, of, of jerseys. I feel like jerseys are for kids and, and, uh, and I actually tease when I see adults wearing them, I’m like, Oh, he’s wearing an adult Jersey. Um, I think jerseys are for kids. And so. I want him to have as many as he can while he can for 40 kids too old to wear jerseys.

You’re talking about, I, I still bust out my Lawrence Taylor Jersey from time to time. Are you telling me, are you telling me that’s wrong? Where are we on the show on time? Or you were down here and you were like looking in the closet and we’re like 56 on the giants. Who’s that? And I just looked at you. I looked at you like you were the worst person on earth.

Didn’t I never watched it. I made that mistake. I know, I know LT when I see LT, but, uh, so I got what we get Austin. Uh, Uh, a Michael Thomas Jersey for the Sates. He got a cam Jordan. He’s not listening to this. I’m not ruining it for him. I ordered him an old Randy Moss from Vikings Jersey. Nice. He’s ready to rock.

Excellent. Excellent. A [00:49:00] couple more. We’ll we’ll we’ll stretch our time here. Uh, eggnog or no eggnog for the holidays. JK. Oh, I don’t get down like that. You know, it’s not bad. And what surprises me is if you get it, especially like, you know, homemade non-processed, it’s essentially ice cream in a non frozen form.

So if you like, I could make you an eggnog. That’s basically a boozy milkshake. I think you might change your tune. Well, I mean, you say boozy milkshake. You’ve got my attention, but I’m, I’m not a fan I’m telling you, you just haven’t had, you haven’t had the right stuff. Oh my goodness. I hope we get back to getting some, uh, some nice boozy milkshakes for, for 2021.

That could be a future note to self future. T-shirt design a boozy milkshake t-shirt could be, could be interesting. Um, what about, so we had this idea of doing production meeting in the middle of the show, our next t-shirt, which you know, will not be available in time for, but you know, you can always pre-order.

Um, we might be able to get the [00:50:00] pre-order up in time, but we have, I know we were going back and forth with Kurt over at old smoke. What was, we had an idea to do a poll about the final design. Fill me in here. I don’t know what we’re at on that. I actually have an email from Cardone to look at. So maybe I’ll figure out the answer to that question.

Um, yeah, the two designs we like, but should we do it like a little Twitter poll and let the people choose? Yeah, I mean, I’m fine with that. Okay. W w w we’ll see, and, and the expression on it. I, I, you know, we can let that cat out of the bag, a few expressions as associated with, uh, with a day at the racetrack around us.

Then one time. One time for the good guys you have just as we, we added the good guys. So we just, we kept it simple at one time. Um, If, if you’ve gambled you’ve you said it just come on one time, just one time with this. Like, I love it because it, it really speaks to how beaten up you get in any, in any form of gambling.

It’s like every other time he’s, you know, we losing these photos, we got. We’re getting dqued, we’re getting a bad ride. The horse got [00:51:00] this bad trip. One time, let everything go. Right. So I can get paid. There’s so much there. There’s a lot of, of, of story and, uh, and, and drama and pain baked in to those two words one time.

So anyway, it’s a cool design. Hopefully people will, will dig it. Here’s another breeders’ cup betting challenge. Question, JK, you and Marshall, both bet your entire bankrolls to win on Monomoy girl. Uh, of course you both doubled your bankroll. However she paid $3 to place. Did you ever consider betting her to place?

No. No. I just, you know, I, I mean, this isn’t a sound like kinda like a smart ass remark, but look the Y, but so for like, for what, for bankrolled preservation, or just to be, I mean, she paid $4 to win. So obviously, you know, uh, I make twice as much money. I mean, it’s, to me, it’s, to me, that’s a winner go home.

And the, the comment or Jeff does point out that you did [00:52:00] have a little saver on CC, but I mean, CC is a horse we’ve loved, we’ve talked about a billion times, was my top pick and was a giant price. So like, So to answer the question, my thought probably. And I, and if you, if you haven’t seen the, the show that Marshall I did together, the, uh, J K plus one, we kind of go over.

My whole point was it’s been that way in a couple of breeders, cut, betting challenges. I want to take opinions and bet them in a way where I just got to get three things right. The entire weekend. And if I can get those three things right. Then I’ll be in a position to win. And so that’s what it was for me.

I wanted to, I wanted to be right with that double with the turf sprint and, um, and I want it to be able to get to a position where I could go all in on Monomoy girl. And then I could go all in, in a fairly safe way at the end to try to win it. And that’s what I did. I was able, like you said earlier to do a four by four double.

So I had 16 [00:53:00] different combinations of the last race that would have, you know, the kind of protected me and about six of those scenarios could have potentially won it for me. So, um, you know, that, that was never, it was never in my mind to bed her, to place. Like, I mean, not even there’s kind of, there are times when it makes perfect sense to be at the place.

Like. This year’s Kentucky Derby on TIS the law when you’re going to get paid the same, but you’re getting your return on investment is so much higher between $4 and $3, especially at the, especially at the. The, the amount that you were betting there that, yeah, it’s a no-brainer. And to me, the CC hedge, uh, the CC hedge makes absolute sense.

I mean, I assume you don’t have anything more to say about that than what I already know. I think that I’m guessing I don’t have it in front of me, but I’m also guessing that the betting $40,000 to place. Well, we’ll probably change that $3 two. Yeah, I might’ve got it. Might’ve gone down to two eight to, to see Marshall, the math that we, we, that our two [00:54:00] bets did affect that affect the pricing and costs us maybe 10 cents or something like that.

But there were, there were some other good research I saw folks doing about just all the little things. There was somebody else in the contest, JK who also had the tornado authentic, double. That ended up in the top 10, that if he hadn’t made that bet, it would have paid enough that you would have had more than Marshall it’s it’s tough stuff at the end there, you gotta be willing to just stick with your opinion and make your play and, and, and hope for the best.

All right, we’re close enough to an hour. Now. I’ll be a little bit late to lunch. Harvey. Won’t be too mad at me. Um, we’ll go. We’ll we’ll go the hour. Cause we can get, um, We can get to the end of this thing, I think. Or, or, or at least a bunch of them. What do you think about that lack of a national standard for what isn’t a foul or riding infraction, should this stuff be standardized?

Is middle East peace, more likely asks Paul? Um, yeah, obviously we’re all. Unhappy with the way to me, I’m not only unhappy with the inconsistency from [00:55:00] jurisdiction to jurisdiction, I’m unhappy with the entire way they adjudicate the things here. I mean, we’ve been over this a thousand times, but the category one versus category two, I prefer the category.

One adjudication where the steward’s inclination is to let results stand and deal with riding and fractions by hitting riders, really where they hurt. In terms of the pocket book, giving days, giving fines, things like that. But even if you were going to have category two, yeah, it would be nice to see a consistency from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but that’s just not how racing works in this country and on the list of things affecting racing.

If I could just magically change three, I’m not even sure that, that one, what would make it, what do you think JK about, uh, these issues? Yeah. I mean, we’re not on the same page across jurisdictions and that’s likely not going to happen anytime soon. I mean, I guess maybe, um, it could, if this legislation passes, I guess I could get everybody closer to the same page and we’ll see what happens there.

But you know, the stewarding thing to [00:56:00] me is really not that big of a priority to me. And let me tell you why. Oh, for a couple of reasons, one, yeah, it can be frustrating, but I usually, I have found that all of the bad breaks that I’ve gotten at the stewards hands I’ve gotten good ones too. Um, and right.

They just, to me, and that’s not even just that one, I just think that if even, you know, they, they cancel each other out typically, you know, we don’t remember the ones we got lucky. We don’t remember when we stayed up and we should have come down. We just remember when we came down. So that’s the first part of it.

The second part of it is I do agree. I do think that. That in situations, the better shouldn’t be punished, they should handle it kind of off the race track and, and kind of force riders into safer situations, um, because of where they’re affected and how they’re affected. So I do believe that’s a better way to go about it, but like I said, I do find this to be 17th on the list of important things.

Mary asks a good one. I get [00:57:00] you, uh, Buster hurdle on a different show, us talking to, are you talking about the concept of resulting and asks? How do each of us process a loss? And I will say in my gambling life, I don’t think I’ve had too many, had a lot of great teachers who were human beings, but overall.

Losses can be great teachers. And there’s a very important difference between resulting and looking back at your losses and trying to learn something. And I’ve seen a lot of patterns of behavior over the years in various forms of gambling that, you know, when you start to see something once and you, you have an inkling to correct it, you know, maybe that’s resulting, but when you see yourself making the same mistake consistently, That’s how you can start learning from your losses.

And I just think to go back and look back objectively at the end of the day and take out of the equation. Um, any of the emotions associated with winning or losing at gambling. And just objectively look [00:58:00] and try to find spots where you got lucky or the horses that you included that you really didn’t need to include, or even if you won, you know, even if you won, you can go back and look and learn something about your play and you know, it’s a fine line.

It’s easy to get into that mindset. Well, it worked so it’s good. It didn’t work. So it’s bad. Obviously you need to focus on the decision, not the outcome. That’s an idea than a, one of the oldest ideas in the successful. Gambler psychology that there is. What about you JK? Do you have anything else to add to that conversation about resulting?

Yeah, I think that the first thing that I’ll say about resulting is is that if you’re, if you’re overextending yourself from a bankroll standpoint, that’s the first thing that will make you result because you’re, you’re, you know, you’re losing more than you feel comfortable losing. So then the losses are more uncomfortable and then you are less, uh, You’re less analytical when you’re trying to figure out where the, the, where it came from, because you’re, you’re, you’re like they say in poker, you’re [00:59:00] on tilt.

So that’s the first thing I’ll say is, is, is, is that is, is staying within your budget and where you feel comfortable. That’s the first thing that can help kind of handle those emotions of a resulting. To me, there’s two different types of losses. There’s I made a mistake and didn’t see something loss and there’s a, I could have never found that horse loss.

And when I come across the, I could have never found that horse loss. I can shake those off pretty easily. It’s pretty easy for me to just be done with them. The, the, I made a mistake loss. It’s usually about time management. It’s usually about rushing. It’s usually about, I could’ve saw that I was going too fast and then I get pretty frustrated at myself cause I was being sloppy or being, you know, uh, a little too action, heavy.

And so then really it’s the same lesson every time, which is slow your butt down and, and take the time to actually construct this thing the right way. But I never, man losses don’t really hit me longer than, than like. You know, then a day or like a couple of hours, sometimes I [01:00:00] can be over it. Um, uh, you know, a glass of wine usually helps to, to shake the haters off too.

But one thing I’ll say is haters shake. Hey, I can’t believe it. One thing I’ll say is that like, you know, I don’t even remember it. I Del Mar I like had this masterful situation where I put myself in this unbelievable position and I got beat by a horse that I probably could have had. But probably couldn’t have had, and that one stung a little bit, because I’m a believer in this game that you’ve got about three or four pops in you for the year and you can’t let you can’t let them get away.

And I felt like I let that one get away and it was hackable, the horse was hackable. And so those kinds of thing a little bit longer, but you just, how was the horse, however, habitable talk to yourself about it. And then hopefully you’ll catch it next time around. Bonus coverage. Cause this is just me asking you, do you find losses to be a good teacher?

And in what way, if you do absolutely. [01:01:00] Um, you know, with my son, since he was a kid, I’ve always said two things to him. Um, one of them was, was, was Jennifer saying that I picked up on, which is, you know, I always used to say, Hey, Hey buddy, daddy will always keep you. And then he answers safe. And then I always said, and I said, buddy, it’s okay to make.

And he says mistakes. Those are the two that I always say. Cause I just feel like that’s where you learn lessons. Like when you, when you mess something up is how you figure out what you don’t want to do. You, you, but, but if you don’t let yourself make mistakes, then you’re never going to figure them out.

So, um, I always joke that that, that first pop I had back in 2010 for like 80,000 and the pitfall was champagne Doro, that money I gave all that money back learning, you know, To a certain extent. I mean, don’t get me wrong to give it all back, but that was the, that was my learning money. That’s where I learned that you have to stop using caveman tickets and pick fours.

You can’t hit the all button. You can’t go all, all single all which I see people do all the time and then they hit it. They think they’re clever. It’s just bad [01:02:00] business. And you learn those lessons as you, as you go. And so yes, losses are absolutely. If they, if, uh, if you can’t get a lesson out of a loss, Then what, what’s the point of losing, right?

Oh, um, I’m a big believer in that, you know, even in my coaching days, we always used to say, don’t let one loss turn into two and you gotta, you know, you gotta let go of the cookie and just move on after you have them. But it’s definitely worth reflecting for a moment and then getting past it. Those are that’s such good stuff.

And I love that point about making mistakes. I mean, I would go so far as to say, uh, if I were talking to somebody really, it doesn’t even matter what the profession is. So put that aside if you’re, and maybe this isn’t true in some, in some professions like the medical profession or something, but, you know, book publishing and in gambling and in podcasting.

I would say, if you’re not making mistakes, you’re not doing your job. You’re not taking enough chances. You’re not putting yourself out there. You know, it’s very [01:03:00] easy to, to plug along and just, you know, do stuff, but taking chances, making mistakes and learning from them. Critical to so much of the work out there in the world.

We are officially out of time. JK. I want to thank you one more time. I’m going to let your show breathe for a bit. So, uh, J K plus one will come out. This will come out, but then you’re listing this at the earliest. It’s going to be Tuesday night, uh, just to get that programming note out there in the world, coordinate with your JK production meeting at the end of the show this time, uh, want to thank all the listeners who submitted questions.

I know we didn’t get to all of them. We will at some point, uh, apologies. To those of you who we didn’t get to. And thank you again to those who, uh, to everybody who submitted a question, um, what else do we need to do? Let’s thank some, uh, partners, including 10 strike racing and the thoroughbred retirement foundation, but most of all want to thank all of you, the listeners for making these shows so much fun to do.

Especially these last two years when we’ve been solo, but really going all the way back to 2014. When we [01:04:00] debuted in a, in a very different world to say the least that’s going to do it. This show has been a production of in the money media. Our business manager is drew Coney, our chief creative officers, Jonathan kitchen.

I’m Peter Thomas foreign Italian. May you win all your photos.

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