Show #13 – Tuesday, February 4

Official description:

“It’s a loaded show. First, PTF and JK talk about racing from last weekend, including Derby preps at Aqueduct, Florida and Santa Anita. Then, Pat Cummings of the Thoroughbred Idea Foundation comes by to talk about what racing’s response should be to recent changes in the gaming landscape (HINT: It’s not merely to ask for a slice of the pie). Finally, in a long-awaited visit, we’ve got Steve Byk here to talk about this year’s National Horseplayers Championship and the coverage he’ll be providing (with a small assist from PTF). Make sure you stick around after the credits for an outtake.”

Some other things to check out this week:

Here’s my article about Preston Simms for The Stronach Group.

And here’s my recap of last weekend’s TC prep action for the other At the Races.

The TIF white paper Pat Cummings discusses on the new show lives here.

Teresa Genaro wrote a piece for Forbes I wish I had written about Karen Carey.

Interesting thread from Ed ReDosa with some stats about NHC cap horses.

Funny stories about the National Anthem betting at the Superbowl here and here.

The story behind Harvey Wallbanger who might be named for the cocktail after all but it would have been a better story had he been named for the racing buffalo.

And now on with the show:


For Itunes

For Spotify

Look for me from me this week, including a written review of the TC preps for and a piece for NYRA about their NHC qualifiers.

Plus, a special NHC pregame show podcast. I’ll tweet links and edit this post so they live here as well.

May you win all photos!



Prefer to read it? See below.

***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

You’re listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. I’m your host, Peter Thomas.  back with you for show number 13. It is Tuesday, February 5th. Happy Chinese new year. Alternate side of the street, parking suspended makes my Tuesday less stressful. I always liked that.

Love Chinese new year. Great holiday. Wish I could be there at a parade somewhere along the line. Instead I’m in the Brooklyn bunker grinding away. Working on all kinds of stuff. Trying to clear the decks ahead of NHC weekend, I will be heading out to Las Vegas on Friday. We will be publishing a special episode of the, in the money [00:01:00] players podcast, be on the lookout for that.

But first we have a fantastic show for you today. Pat Cummings of the thoroughbred idea foundation is here to talk about some really exciting stuff. Racing can potentially do not just to survive in the new sports betting world, but to thrive. That’s coming up a little bit later. Also a visitor we’ve been wanting to have forever more or less.

He’s so busy. I always feel bad bothering him, but we allowed it to happen this time. Steve BIC is going to be coming by. We’re going to be talking about the NHC and his roll out. They’re going to be a lot of fun, but first I want to bring in the cohost he’s riding high folks. National TV over the weekend, getting to go to his favorite place, Santa Anita, even if the weather wasn’t so good, but right now he’s back on the planet, Texas.

He’s competing in the NHC this weekend, looking for another title. He has a [00:02:00] tour championship under his belt. He wants finished with two entries in the top 10 out there looking to win the whole thing. I’m talking about the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen. What’s up. My man. PTF, uh, I’ve got a confession for you and this story for the people.

So we were out in Louisville for the breeders cup and Pete and I were doing a Quester con and we had a little bit of a break and. Pete wanted to get a coffee. I’m new to the coffee world. And I, don’t not really a midday coffee guy, just kind of the morning version. It needs to have chocolate in it. I know, I know I’m working on it.

We walk by to Starbucks and I’m like, Pete, what are we doing? And Pete wants to go to some coffee shop. He saw on Yelp that has good coffee. And my confession is that right? At that moment I wanted to punch you. I really did. I was tired. My feet were hurting. I didn’t want, I was probably overdressed. It was probably warmer than I wanted it to be are colder than I wanted to be.

I [00:03:00] don’t remember. I didn’t want to walk. I admit to you now that there is a difference between regular. Starbucks coffee and coffee that you can get from a place that takes a little bit more pride. I went and went out of my way this morning to get a little bit more prideful of coffee. And so to this, I owe you an apology and a next time I’ll be a better walking partner when we’re trying to find some good stuff.

J K, even for you, this is a really elaborate excuse for why you were late to the show today, but I do appreciate it. I’ll put in a quick plug. Actually. We got a couple of tips. Our buddy David crone tipped us on please. And thank you. And, uh, heinie brothers coffee in Louisville. And I wanted to seek them both out and they were both very good, especially please.

And thank you. Those were good tips. Some of the many good tips we received over breeders’ cup weekend, but not nearly as good JK as a certain tip. We received this past weekend. I’ll let you tell the story. [00:04:00] First of all. I was starting to panic on the show on the Fox sports Saturday at the races, I was panicking because I had not given a winner yet.

And I was like, that’s like my job to be there is to like, you know, be the horseplayer guide is going to give some, some insight. And I just was whipping and whipping and whipping and whipping. And then finally I hit the late pick three, uh, quote unquote, late pick three, and gave out the winner of, of the Martha Washington.

Think the horse’s name was power. Gal is a Japanese bred horse that Mark Cassie had for the barbers. And then I gave out a mucho Gusto who was my best bet of the day, but. Before everyone starts yelling at me about that second. Well, first of all, he was three to five and he won. So he was the best bet.

Second of all, I made those plays earlier in the morning when a Nolo contestable was still in, the six horse was in. So my thought was Nolo contested was going to take money and also gunmetal gray. And you get closer to even money on mucho Gusto. I felt like that was value. They’d late scratched the horse after I’d [00:05:00] already turned in my play, whatever.

I still liked the horse as a single. Uh, he won and then a, uh, 20 to one first time gilding at Oaklawn park took the pressure off. I felt like I had probably had a positive ROI at that point. It was a lot of fun to show is a lot of fun. It’s fast and furious, man. Like, I’ll be better next time when I’m more prepared, it was like, they’re in your ear and they’re yelling.

And it’s like, I was expecting what happened at Saratoga this summer, which was like these long breaks in between races. Right. But this was like bang, bang prices. What did you think of that race? Who’s up coming up next post parade here. Boom, bang, boom, bang. And like, is the camera on me? And it was just, it was a new thing for me, but once I’ve gone through it now, I think I’ll do better on the other end.

I thought you were great. And I do think you have the potential to even be better. I was super impressed with the overall quality of the broadcast. So many talented people on there. It came together really well and I enjoyed. The range of personalities and opinions. They’ve put a terrific team together and I think it’s great that you’re a part of it, man.

You [00:06:00] look good up there and you given out some winners, which is great, but let me, I’ll tell you that wasn’t the tip I was referring to from the weekend JK, we had a tip regarding the Superbowl, a certain prop bet at the super bowl that I wanted you to tell the story of. Oh, of course, of course. I took all the, all the credit for the tip.

Yes. So the person who gave us the tip we’ll refer to him as quote-on-quote Queens. Right? Well, that’s his, that’ll be his name for the story. Quincy. He was involved in a pick six. We played a pick stick together. All of us and Quincy was involved. We got knocked out of the pick six and he sent the group a message.

He said, bet the over on the national Anthem tomorrow. I had talked, I’ve talked to Quincy Jones, a number of times over beverages. He’s like undefeated in the national anthems and like the last five or six years he gets inside information on the rehearsal. Now what happens. This has become a whole big story, by the way, I’ll link in the blog to this idea of insight, information, and rehearsals, and you are leaving out the [00:07:00] fact that one of the country’s singers got nervous and sped it up.

And it went under, even though it was supposed to go over. But other than that easily, something like nine and one in the last decade, he lets us know and he he’s telling everyone we’re passing it along. We’re telling everyone to look at their local bookie or whoever they can get a bet down with. See if they can find.

The action on the, uh, the national Anthem boy, was he right? He told us two minutes and two seconds, and it was like two minutes, one second. And like, you know, whatever, you know, 45 tents. It was awesome. That was, it was the most gratifying, gratifying experience. I had the stopwatch out. We’re all sitting here.

My son was with me. We were watching the national Anthem and counting, and it was a, it was phenomenal. It’s a lot of fun. One of the most fun Superbowl wagers I’ve ever had. It was certainly more entertaining than the game. I’ll say that much, but I just thought from a pure degeneracy point of view, the look that Susan gave me as we’re late to our super bowl party, riding in the car, I’ve got the Westwood one broadcast on, I’ve got the stopwatch [00:08:00] out and she’s just looking at me like watching me, text you back and forth, encouraging remarks, et cetera.

It was priceless. I have to say, I felt very sick and very happy all at the same time. I do think that we definitely owe Quincy Jones a big, thank you. One of my friends, I had it like a small situation and I’m sure lots of people had a small situation. One of my friends bet, a thousand dollars,

just kidding. Right. Even a thousand dollars. So it all worked out. It was very fun, very fun time. I can’t wait until next year, who knows who’s going to be involved. The best part about it was like the back and forth before, as we were trying to figure out if we were right, someone sends a YouTube video of her.

Previous performance in 91. And then someone sends a video of the fact that she’s going to have someone signing along with her. So we know she can’t get out of control. She got to stay linked up with, with the person who’s signing. I mean, it was, it was a lot of fun. There was a lot of fun. You’re right. I had been doing some [00:09:00] handicapping again.

This is how sick I am before we got this inside info. I was handicapping the prop and I found that 91 Gladys Knight version where she just belts it out and goes right through it. So my initial lean was, this is going to be the under. And Quincy was like, no, no, man, you got to realize that was 91. This is 2018.

How many more big moments is she going to get on the stage in front of this many people, she’s going to draw it out. And then he revealed about the inside info. It was pretty priceless all in all. Oh, this podcast, if you feel like you got a little bit luckier, you got, you got the, the photo went your direction to take down one of your direction, the DQ or whatever it is.

You need to tweet out whatever you need to say, and then hashtag brave, brave, because it was, it was the second brave. It was the second grave that got us. Well, apparently some places had rules where they specified the first brave, but that makes no sense to me. I don’t think in my life I’ve ever heard anybody sing [00:10:00] brave more than once.

The rules that I read were through the end of the word, brave, which made it a clear over, but as always with everything, you got to read the rules and I’ll also just throw a little note out there. JK canny, potential sponsors listening. If your sports book decides to come on board with the podcast, we won’t talk about bets that you have to bet in these far away off shore places anymore.

Just so you know that I just want to get that across. Let’s talk about some racing because the Superbowl doesn’t deserve much triple crown action. This weekend. With which performance were you the most impressed broadcasts? I think I said mucho Gusto in first, and then I kind of regretted that right after I said it.

I think tax’s performance was probably a little bit more impressive. Uh, the fact that he kind of stumbled early, showed some grit to kind of fight through that spot. The spot that might’ve been opened up for him a little bit, but he still ran right through there. Hey claim obviously by Danny garden. Uh, and, and Randy Hill and the team there read really well.

I, I’m not, like I said, I’m not cutting in line a bit futures on [00:11:00] tax, but it was an impressive performance. And I think that mucho Gusto is the type of horse that, although he ran well. And although I think a lot of people expected him to run that way, that, well, um, in that, in that circumstances, you know, he ran on a sloppy track.

Uh, there was a lot of info out that, that apparently. His two-year-old breeze took place over a sloppy track, but it was, it was like everyone knew he was going to run well on the surface. And so he ran really well. Let’s see what he does on a fast track. He’s still no improbable to me. He still no game winter to me.

He’s the third or fourth in that Baffert barn, maybe 4th of July, if you want to count the Philly, Florida Lamar. So let’s see what happened. I said before, and I’ll say it again. You can pay attention. You can soak it all in. But do not fall in love with horses on the Derby trail. When you’re thinking about what you’re going to do the first Saturday of the month, a lot of stuff to unpack there, I’ll start off with my thoughts on tax.

I do think that’s a good point. We’re not having this conversation. If that hole doesn’t open that hole. Doesn’t open. If Ray, Lou [00:12:00] Gutierrez, isn’t race riding. The rival on the outside, it was a nice effort, 96 buyer speed figure, but I’m not ready to get super excited about from a Derby point of view, even though the figure was good.

And even though there was some adversity overcome and some grit shown, I agree with all that, but I’m just sort of taking a, as we do on so many of these horses. A wait and see approach going forward. But here’s the thing, one thing about tax, just to keep in mind, we, we always talk about these broadcasts and some of the great notes you can get Danny Gargan.

And the post-interview said that he actually thinks tax is going to be better on the turf. So wherever you keep notes, pop that in there. And when you see tax show up after this Derby businesses over and you see tax show up on the turf, I think it’s important to remember that Danny has predicted that the horse is even gonna be better on the grass.

Both tax and mucho Gusto at 33 to one for the Derby, either of those tickle your fancy, and then just to put [00:13:00] your feet to the fire, pick one or the other, give me tax neither tickle my fancy, but that’s the choice I would take. You might have to turn in your silver wig for that response. JK. Funny enough, we’re getting closer to a real friendship between me and the, and the silver haired man, my mom and my son who came along with sat in front runner while I did the show and they were sitting in it right next to Bob Baffert table.

When I got up there, you know, we joke about the, the situation with me and B squared being buddies. We’ve talked a few times. We don’t have each other’s cell phone numbers or anything like that. But I was very pleased at like, he recognized me from our recent, in our other conversations in the past. And we talked yeah, for like 15 or 20 minutes.

And I told them that I was really upset that when Joe took the horseback, I thought he should’ve been loose on the lead. And he essentially told me that was the instructions. He told Joe, he said, ride him like a good horse and ride him to win the race. You know, those horses he’s better than the horses that were in that race.

And there’s no reason to go out there and run like that on the front end, keep them clean and just keep them out of the way. Know it was nice to hear that information. [00:14:00] I’m not sure I fully understand that. Right. I’m like, what does that mean? Right. I’m like a good horse means rate him or it means send him, it means like right, good horse.

I keep them in behind and keep, teach them a lesson. Right. And like a good horse. And no matter what the situation is, you’re going to beat these other horses. So why go out there and drill them out there on the front end and not know what’s going on behind you. Just take them in there. Sit them behind horses and let them run by him late.

And that’s kinda what he did. I was a little bit concerned that he invited gunmetal gray into the race around the three eights pole. And I thought that could have been dangerous, but when Joe asked him and he just skipped over the ground and kind of pulled away, he had so much. Absolutely. And I do think I’m.

More impressed. I’d take him going forward because of the fact that he showed that new dimension, I felt like that was enough. Mucho Gusto earned a 90 buyer. He’s going to probably get on a plane. I would imagine next. And Bob’s kind of hinted at that. The mucho Gusto will be the one that goes on the road.

Uh, I would imagine improbable. And game winter, we’ll stick around. I did [00:15:00] ask Bob a question that I think I’d like to share. I said, game winners working, right? He said, yeah, he worked the other day. I worked in easy. I can get him ready like that. He just kind of expressed the fact that like getting games, he is not going to be a problem in terms of timing.

I guess you’ve got enough of a foundation and they’ve, they’ve kept them fit enough that it shouldn’t take much to get him going in the right direction. So I would imagine that those two will stick around and try to kind of maybe battle out for who’s going to run in San Anita. And mucho Gusto will probably get on a plane.

I can see mucho Gusto going to New York. It’s kind of what he did last year with restoring hope. He sent him to New York to run in some of the preps over there. I would imagine in winter and probable one of those horses would end up maybe at Oaklawn. It’s kind of a Bob Baffert thing. He did it with American Pharaoh and he’s done it with Bodhi Meister as well in the past.

So maybe one of them ends up there. One in San Anita. Uh, no, one’s feeling sorry for Bob Baffert and the wealth of three-year-olds that he has Cousteau earned a 90 buyer. So based on the figures, your opinion makes more sense than mine, but this is [00:16:00] just the sense that I have 33 to one from the Baffert barn versus 33 to one on tax.

I’m still. I’m going to just lean it a little bit the other way, but neither one are cut in line prices. At least not at the moment. Let me tell you who I am not interested in. And that is the one, two finishers of the Holy bull. When you get a 25 to one shot and a 99 to one shot run in, it’s usually not a great race.

And I’ve been dying to say something out loud. And I just see, I can say it on these airwaves. I couldn’t say it on the other ones. I almost jumped out of my chair when Harvey Wallbanger won, I cannot tell you how many times that horse has hung and beat me. Maybe two or three times, we were alive for huge scores and he couldn’t get the job done.

And then all of a sudden, when I don’t need him, he comes barreling through the rail, like he’s super saver or something. It was a perfect setup. You look at the pace figures for the race and he just ran perfectly evenly. While the rest of the field ran incredibly inefficiently. This is the formula or [00:17:00] one of the formulas to produce big, long shots, the fastest horses in the race, the better horses in the race run their race too early inefficiently.

You’ll see those red fractions over on time form us that help indicate that. Meanwhile, he’s just sort of going the one pace, but like the story of the tortoise and the Hare. When they go way too fast, early that can get it done. Harvey Wallbanger earns an 85 buyer more in line with an allowance, race and a graded stakes.

Good for him. Great story about the name, actually I’ll link to that in the blog too. Not named after the drink, but after a famous. Racing Buffalo. Read the story on, in the money It’s pretty cool stuff. I’ll also throw in a link to the drink too. Not a drink for me, by the way, sort of 1970s in a glass, maybe something you’d order at the Regal beagle, Galliano and orange juice.

That’s just too much of the same kind. The vodka doesn’t quite do enough to redeem it for me, JK. But anyway, [00:18:00] ever fast ends up second. You could make a case that he ran better than the leader. You can probably make a case that both Epic dreamer and Maximus mischief ran better than the leader from an ability standpoint, just by being on or closer to that very fast pace.

Do you want any of those horses out of this going? None of them, I don’t want any of them out of here. Not one of them. None of them. Not one. And I will say this. I think it’s very important. If you happen to be one of those conspiracy theorists complainer, guys, I read in Jose do not let each other win. And this is absolute proof of it because they buried each other in this race.

And if it wasn’t for them, riding each other’s horses. Of might not have got through and ever fast might not have came running either. They buried each other. They are unbelievably competitive. You can find races where they’ve almost dropped to one another and the flood and the idea that like they’re out here, like setting it up for one another, I think is false.

And this race has evidence of that. Fair enough. All right. I think we’re about [00:19:00] ready to get to our guests. We’re going to do that weird thing, JK, where you’re going to go. We’ll find a boutique coffee shop for 20 minutes while I talked to Pat. And then we’re going to bring you back in to talk with Steve Beck.

Anything else to say before we get to our guests looking forward to seeing everybody on a couple of a couple of days here. And I’m really excited about listening to the, uh, the little, a five minute interviews you’ve done. It should be a lot of fun. So make sure you check that out. It should be coming up pretty soon.

Absolutely. I have to work on that today. I’ve recorded a bunch. We’ll try to get a bunch more and we’ll do the best we can with that. Leading off with our very own Jonathan kitchen. Okay, here we go with Pat Cummings. And now I’d like to welcome back to the show from the thoroughbred idea foundation, the author of their latest white paper, horse racing, and quote unquote legal sports betting.

Pat Cummings, Pat, how are you today? Hi Pete. Thanks for having me back on. It’s great to be with you again, start off by referencing an old saw that I don’t even [00:20:00] know if it’s actually true though. You, as someone who’s lived in Asia, maybe knows. The reality of this a little bit more than I do, but I have heard the story that there is a Chinese character, pictograph, whatever you want to call it, that represents both crisis and opportunity.

It comes to mind to me when I look. At the issue of racing and legal sports betting. Is there anything to that relative to the second part of your comment? Yes. To the first part? I don’t know. And in my three years of living in Asia, I resigned myself to the fact that I could probably pick up a little Cantonese, but I was never, ever going to write any of it.

So let me ask you about the title of the paper. Legal sports betting. I put the quote on quote around it. When I said it to you, as you had to meet earlier, why for the listeners who haven’t yet read [00:21:00] the white paper, and if you haven’t, you really want to get on that, it’ll be going out via my Twitter paddle, tell you where else you can find it.

But where does that idea come from? That legally should be in quotes. The thought is what legal really means. And for most people, when they think of the term legal. It means allow that law permits this behavior, or it governs this behavior in some way, shape or form. And Pete, all of that is true. Um, it certainly does mean that and, and, and whatnot, but, uh, it means a lot more in the context of sports betting and.

I think it’s very keen for, for racing stakeholders to understand what legal sports betting really means in the context of horse racing. And we have a fantastic quote in the paper and, and the, the, the raw paper itself. You can get it racing, think If you want to read it on the website, you can read it there.

If you want to download a PDF, you can do the same, but w [00:22:00] we, we get, uh, the great insight for Maury Wolf, who every time I talked to Maury, I find myself, uh, having some situations, some story put in better perspective because Maury just has a way of doing that. And when we talked to Maury about this in particular, uh, as a long-time professional, better both of horses and other sports, Maury basically hit the nail on the head with, with the story we wanted to tell as more expensive.

And I’ll just read the quotes specifically legal. Is not just simply allowed by law. Legal means infrastructure, strategic planning, investment in innovation, mobile delivery, customer service, standards, marketing and advertising, lots of advertising. And importantly, it comes with the assuredness being paid.

That adds up to a lot. Those are the words of Maury Wolf. And so. If you think [00:23:00] that this general nationwide discussion following the Supreme court’s decision in may has gotten us to a point where, okay. You know, what has been kind of casual and illegal and maybe run in the neighborhood or people that, that.

Glom onto some online, uh, unregulated market to, to bet on sports. If you think that, that now that’s suddenly just going to become a loud and it’s okay. It’s not, it’s more than that. We’re talking about full fledged multi-billion dollar industry and all of the trappings of that, that will have an all out assault on the consumer.

And if you live in New Jersey, you experienced that. Now someone recently mentioned to me somewhat casually that they believe that the early spend on marketing for forts betting in New Jersey in this one state of several million people has already exceeded that of some European countries, uh, [00:24:00] where sports betting has been legal for a very long time.

And that’s just, you know what, we’re talking about. One state, one element. This is going to be overwhelming. And Americans don’t feel that now for the most part, but they’re going to in increasing numbers, it will infiltrate sports broadcast more and more and more as time goes by. It will be in every way, shape, imaginable a part of the sporting experience for the fan.

That’s a great thing. If you own a sports franchise, if you are in any way, shape or form. Compensated by sports because more people are going to follow sport far more than they ever have. We quote in the paper, the president of Turner, who I saw at the consumer electronics show out in Las Vegas a couple of weeks ago, basically said, if you have a bet on a sporting event and you are scientifically studied 80 to 90% more likely to watch and to watch for [00:25:00] longer.

And if that’s the case, then all of the trappings of sport and sport broadcasts become more valuable. Gambling makes this more valuable and the legal element. Of sports betting now will infiltrate. I dare to suggest almost every facet of our, of our lives as a consumer online, social, traditional broadcast, even traditional print, where it still exists, it’s going to be unavoidable and tying it back into racing.

This is the market in which our industry is going to have to compete. And that is where horsemen and betters and everybody associated with this game. That’s how they have to start thinking the game has changed because the competition has just gotten so much more, incredibly fierce. Racing in the past.

Let me see if I’m summarizing this [00:26:00] correctly. Their response to other competitive gaming has been okay. Where’s our piece. It seems to me what you’re saying in these terms that are, that they stop short of being a, an Orwellian level threat, but we’re heading there. It seems to me like you feel that the, Hey, where’s my piece.

It’s cool. As long as we get a taste argument is just not going to fly against this level of opponent, if you will. Yeah. We would suggest that that’s a path to, to even quicker destruction. Pete, the licensing situation first off is different in every state. Okay. So, so there may be some elements where horsemen are able to structure some sort of deal and quote, unquote, get a cut.

The, the money is just not there. Like it is from a slot revenue standpoint. And the licensing is, is expected to become so much more broader based that racetracks are likely to only be part. [00:27:00] You know, one small kind of slice of this element, horsemen and anticipating that they’re going to get a piece by simply getting some sort of revenue share.

And this is just it’s unlikely. The whole situation has changed. If we go back to the mid 1990s. And funny enough. I mean, I wrote my senior thesis and undergraduate on the efficacy of slot machines at Pennsylvania. Racetracks. Interesting. Here we, here we go. 20 years later, the situation’s very different.

The horse racing was used basically as an acceptable excuse to allow casinos to flourish in America. Right? Exactly. We were how they were legal. They were zoned areas where gambling was already acceptable. They took up a lot of space and were traditionally away from kind of the main center of certain areas of urban centers that they weren’t just in the heart of them.

They kind of had their own little areas and they weren’t, they were out on their own. And, and I, I do think that Pennsylvania quite a bit about this, because it was in Pennsylvania, was [00:28:00] really a hotbed for this and this discussion. And. 20 years ago, they were begging for them and they, they got them about six years after the begging really kind of came into play in a lot of people, credit that to the smarty Jones influence, but kind of separate to all of that, that now doesn’t exist.

That that concern, uh, has been alleviated as casinos have grown beyond just the race CNO. The time and place where it was kind of like Atlantic city and Blocksi, and Bosure Shreveport Reno, Vegas, and maybe some in the various tribal gaming areas, that’s changed. It is much more acceptable and people don’t need racetracks anymore to gamble.

So racing is not going to be in a position to simply claim a slice of anything in this new environment. And. Our response to that is forget the slice claiming compete in this market. How do they [00:29:00] do that? How to race tracks a strive to stand toe to toe and feature. What many of us believe is a superior intellectual challenge and honestly, an overall better gambling game, but what can we do to stand toe to toe with this new behemoth and come out with our heads held high.

Well, that’s the thing, Pete. We know we can speak completely anecdotally here, but there is a great degree of accomplishment in putting together a, um, you know, a nice trifecta play or a super play or pick three or pick four, you know, there is some accomplishment to that fact and that there is a, uh, A feeling that a horseplayer gets and knowing that they’ve been able to put that combination together, turn a very handsome profit.

That’s a good feeling. And I don’t think that’s going to go away. It’s a lot different than maybe saying, getting, getting it right in the Superbowl where you thought that the Rams would, would get less than two sacks. Uh, on the Patriots, he said, well, you know, [00:30:00] this is, uh, this is a toss of a coin. Well, most sports bets are tosses of the coin.

And when you get a 50, 50 prop, right. Uh, okay. If you get maybe five of them right together, that feels pretty good, but it’s a lot different than, than the horse race. What we need to consider I think is, is the method by which growth is happening. All of the growth in sports betting. Is fixed on every sports related bet that is being made in these new markets in Jersey, in Pennsylvania and Rhode Island and everything that’s going to come.

The players are going to know what their end result is going to be. You know, at the moment they make their bets, they get to make a decision knowing this is what I’m going to get at the end right now, racing. Can’t do that. That is one of the great flaws in the parimutuel system. It is a benefit in some respects, uh, and I don’t see a fixed odds replacement coming for trifectas or supers or pick fours or fives or [00:31:00] sixes.

And so racing still has an advantage in, in that capacity. All new generations going forward. New bedding customers that are just, that will be aging into the market are going to be confronted with a reality that is almost entirely fixed odds and your existing customers. Who’ve been betting in the wind pools and the exact is, and the double pools pair mutually.

Where they might have a better idea of what their return is. They are going to be courted with this tsunami of advertising and tremendous wave of infrastructure and investment. That’s coming after them and saying, come play our fixed odds game. And if you’re horse racing, if you are the groups who have to approve how your signal is being used and how your product is being delivered to the betting customers, you have to say, why am I not playing in this market?

Why, why is my sport? Why is my. Option not [00:32:00] available to these customers who are pursuing fixed odds wagers. So our argument is don’t go for the slice compete. Let’s talk about the specifics and there’s more to do on the whole notion of how we can compete, but the specifics of getting fixed odd bedding.

Futures on the Kentucky Derby, anti post markets for the breeders cup, things like this that I believe not only create great gambling opportunities, but also make people much more invested in the gambling side and the sporting side. I think it’s a very appealing notion what has to happen for that to be legal.

You took two examples that are very unique. And we we’ve heard the stories most recently in Mississippi, Johnny Avello through the draft King sports book down there in, I think it’s a diaper Ville trying to offer a future book on the Derby and kind of [00:33:00] getting shut down and doing so. But part of that was that the Mississippi casinos did not have a relationship with the Kentucky horseman.

Or certainly not Churchill downs. And, and I can actually understand that. Whereas in Nevada, through the Las Vegas dissemination corporation, there was relationship at least specific to the tote. I think the breeders’ cup would, would happily be involved in some way, shape or form in a fixed odds betting product, but take the biggest examples for a second, Pete, and just, just put those aside, the horsemen have a say in the distribution of their product.

They have a vested interest in the sustainability of racing. The racetracks increasingly do not. When most of these range tracks have full fledged casinos, and we address this in the paper they have full-fledged casinos and poker rooms and table aims. They’re a casino. They are a full service casino, property and racing as simply a part of this for all intents and purposes, a very [00:34:00] expensive part of, kind of a greater picture.

We believe that the horsemen need to take control as basically being the only people who are. Most concerned about the sustainability of their own product. So if the racetracks are falling out or operating casinos on their own, uh, racing, isn’t as important to them as a, as a sustainable path forward, the horsemen are the ones that need to be most concerned about that.

And all of the various industries that trickle down from racing, the feed mills, the transport agencies, everything like that, the hay growers. Those are the ones that need to be concerned about this. And if there’s the horsemen that are holding in their possession, the rights to distribute their signals and what our suggestion is, they are the ones that they’re most concerned about the sustainability of this business.

They need to be the one [00:35:00] cutting deals to offer. Casinos to offer the racetracks to work with the racetracks to come up with fixed odds, wagers. On racing, will it happen? Is another story. Yeah, I would suggest to, in some respects that, that the horsemen aren’t necessarily even thinking about this, we’ve seen little bits and pieces of it in New Jersey in New Jersey is a very unique example.

They’re very far ahead of the curve. Monmouth is essentially owned by the horseman. They have the William Hill sports book and they got a couple of fixed odds bets on the Haskell approved. On Haskell day at Monmouth, they handle over $21,000 on three fixed odds bets that had almost no advanced.

Marketing, no advanced whatever you want to call it. There’s basically in there’s one small area of the racetrack $21,000 was bed on fixed odds outcomes of one race. There were head to heads which garnered the most, that was about [00:36:00] $15,000. And then about 14,000 rather. And then about 4,000 each on margin of victory in the Haskell.

And then there was a pick three crop plus a baseball game. There were some limits on it. They put a, they put a cap on it. Well, I thought it was interesting. Pete is here is a product that’s never been offered in horse racing in New Jersey that is offered in this very small kind of back corner of, of Monmouth park on one day.

And it was handling more than the early, uh, some of the early exotic wagers. Which were fully distributed across all of North America through all the ADWS on that Monmouth. It’s pretty interesting. That’s for sure. No discussion about how to compete can be complete without some talk about pricing horsemen.

Sometimes seem to understand the importance of having competitive pricing. Other times they seem resistant to the idea of what I would call it more competitive [00:37:00] pricing. How important is that to making this plan work? Well unefficient sports betting market tends to be priced at roughly around that 5% Mark and not all of the States are going to get to that point just yet.

It’ll eventually get there. The key point for, for men is to recognize that your current product, and we say this, I think very clearly in the paper, the parimutuel model at roughly a blended 20% takeout, antiquates quite quickly when all of the development, all of the infrastructure, all of the, the investment is being put behind a product that is exponentially cheaper than what you’re offering.

And everybody knows what their return is going to be when you place a bet. So if you don’t, don’t want to talk about pricing on the parimutuel model. That’s fine. You’re just going to get run over, or you’re going to get steamrolled. If, if racing does not find a way to compete within this, this marketplace, that is where all of the growth is taking place right now.

Uh, this, this would be the [00:38:00] equivalent of, of filmmakers arguing over what percentage of cut to get off of tapes. They sell to blockbuster in 1998 and, uh, ignoring what the rights are for streaming. And it’s coming down the pipe a couple of years after that. If you spend all your time focusing on how you’re going to put, pay blockbuster, how Blockbuster’s going to pay you, you missed all of the growth opportunity that was coming down the road.

That’s a good metaphor. I think as these discussions continue one other way, I feel like racing could compete and I know this would involve. A radical technological improvement, the kind of which racing has been hesitant to make in other situations. But I feel like if everybody could get a real-time feed, In running bedding through an exchange wagering type of an interface could be game-changing in an amazing way.

I mean, it’ll take people time [00:39:00] to get up and running on it, but I think it could be a really exciting product that would attract. New fans and give people something to bet on that they’ve never really seen before, but I don’t think it works when everybody’s looking at pictures from a different source summer ahead, some are behind, I think the technology would have to come first.

Is that something that you’re excited about that you could see being part of racing’s future? Without question, Pete. Uh, one of the random things we even offered is the suggestion that racetracks put up a camera at the half mile pole in the photo finish camera, and they take fixed odds bets on who’s leading it for the first half mile with a half mile ago.

Basically every race becomes too. You don’t pay off on prize money, but you don’t get a win in your call. I mean, in the NBA, you for whether or not you let it half-time same thing would apply here. This type of changes in the wagering landscape, all of these things are going to happen in sports betting.

We have some very [00:40:00] interesting insight from a fellow that works for a company called swish analytics, Bobby scarf, who talks about how this is all going to be customer driven, going forward. Customers are going to want to bet on the equivalent of who’s leading after the first six furlongs and a mile and a 16th race, or who’s going to win based on what has happened.

Essentially in running wagering, the exchange offers a lot of opportunity for players to get involved. And I know the biggest players want to be incentivized for providing liquidity in those markets. And liquidity is always kind of the big concern. That’s the player concern. The industry concern is the funding model.

And, and I believe I’ve heard something to the effect of the funding out of an exchange wage where you basically need to make about 13 bets on average, to make up for the equivalent of the takeout of one racing bet on the parimutuel system. And that scares a lot of people that scares horsemen and the thinking that the revenue stream isn’t going to be the same, but you know what [00:41:00] that’s where the future is.

And if you’re not embracing it now in this type of landscape, the prospect of in running wagering or of increased opportunities on the same event, beyond the traditional menu that exists. Now, you’re not thinking right. You’re thinking with a 1990s mindset in a sport and in a sporting landscape that is vastly vastly changed.

And you need to adapt to this kind of new way of thinking, uh, or else that the fears for the sport and gambling on this sport are very real and very deserved are tracks allowed to offer fixed odds on anything. I’m sorry, that’s kind of an ignorant question, but just to give listeners a little bit of an overview, I mean the photo finish camera at the half mile pole fixed Dodd’s idea is really interesting.

Where could that happen anytime soon? I think there’s a lot of things for, for lawyers to discuss on these matters and that they will do plenty well in the next few years gets [00:42:00] itself together. But the general conversation that I’ve had has been that the interstate horse racing act actually enables racing to take cross state bets on fixed odds, wagers.

It does not explicitly prohibit fixed odds, wagers on horse racing. Nor does it implicitly allow it either. It doesn’t say only parimutuel wagering. It does specifically mention parimutuel, but it doesn’t negate other potential wagers so that the cross state lines that apply and that actually puts racing at a huge advantage over other sports right now, where you may only be able to.

Traditionally operated in the Pennsylvania pool or the New Jersey pool from a fixed art standpoint. You’re limited to that, but horse racing should have an exemption based on several of the conversations I’ve had with, with those who are more knowledgeable about kind of those machinations than me, but then it comes down to what the individual gaming and [00:43:00] duration commissions permit.

But let’s think of this. It’s even simpler. Pete, why are there no race tracks running in America at 10 or 11:00 AM on a Saturday morning? That’s a good one. Why, why are there not people trying to take advantage of those opportunities and fill the markets? If you look into the future of sports betting, I think what we’re going to see is a much greater separation of games.

Game times to spread out the starting points to engage customers kind of different points so that not all of the East coast games are starting at seven o’clock. For example. And that they’re going to start spreading that out to, to engage the betting customer more. Why isn’t racing, doing the same. Why do all the East coast tracks have to start between like 1230 and one?

Why aren’t people trying to take advantage of the availability of that? Capital that’s out there and at least test the waters and see what can happen. I think there’s an opportunity there for that. And, and, [00:44:00] and it just kind of goes part and parcel with this observation of the marketplace and what opportunities really exist for customers, not just in the existing parimutuel pools, of course, but, but what could be going forward with, uh, with various fixed odds opportunities?

I’m proud of the way I brought in the segment, because those are the two themes. Of this issue. There is crisis. There is opportunity. Hopefully the work you’re doing in the white paper in general, over at the thoroughbred idea foundation can help spread the word. I’ll close with one final question, a version of which I’ve asked you before.

Listeners interested in helping. What can anybody, if anything, do to help spread this message and show that we support these efforts and really like the ideas that you’re putting out there, Pete, you and I are very engaged on social media. Maybe not always on the same topics, but you know, we see the dialogue that’s out there and it’s very clear that there are a lot of people who care.

[00:45:00] The problem is very little, is actually going to get done on those platforms. A lot of it is just talking back and forth amongst the same people. You need to take this message to the streets. You need to take this message direct to the people who have the influence, who have the ability to do this and behind closed doors.

That’s what we’re doing. Okay. So as much as we’re putting our reports out there, we’re allowing the industry to digest it. We’re taking it to the people directly. We’re taking it to the stakeholders, to the Horsemen’s groups, having those conversations. Okay. We’re trying to get laws changed in the state of New York on breakage or trying to get some jurisdictions to adopt category one, stewarding over category two.

And with this we’re talking direct to the Horsemen’s groups. We want them. To be ahead of this. We want to present our well-researched findings to them, discuss it with them. And I’ve already had a couple of those discussions just in the three days since we released this paper, you have an opinion on this.

If you feel strongly, it’s one thing to talk about it on social media, but it’s [00:46:00] another to, to find the email of someone in a Horseman’s a group in your HPPA in, in your tha locally, reach out to them. Because those are the people that are really holding the future of this sport in their hands. I know a lot of people that listen to the, to the program are gamblers.

I’m a gambler to Pete, but I love the sport and I want it to continue and we need to be engaging those people who are in those positions of power to change the future. And, and that’s where it’s going to get done. It’s it’s not going to get done, just bickering back and forth, kind of in, in, in the social media sphere, it can be, it can be a little helpful, but we got to take it and have those direct relationships with people.

And, and if you just try and do that randomly on your own, you might be surprised by how much people can engage with you. Fantastic stuff, Pat. I really appreciate your coming on here and can’t think of a better note to close off on that. Thanks, Pete. Okay. Now a segment I’m very excited for bringing in a guy [00:47:00] who has done so much for racing in his broadcast.

Not just that he’s done a whole lot for the two guys, also on this call, bringing in now the shoe on the other foot, Steve Beck, as you make an appearance on the, in the money players podcast, how are you? My friend I’m well, I appreciate you having me. It’s a big thrill. I’ve thought about it for weeks. Ever since you launched this thing, you’re a very kind, man.

I want to have you talk about the NHC coming up the end of this week. How long have you been going out there and how important is this event to the broadcasting you do throughout the year? This’ll be the fifth year. I was speculating on that today, but it’s definitely the fifth because John O’Neill. Was the first champion that we were there for.

And then Paul Mitsis Ray Arsenault and Chris [00:48:00] Littlemore. So fifth, basically you and I were doing so much regular contest conversation that it just became sort of implicit that I at least go out and experience it right from the get-go the sort of free form broadcasting that went on. Six hours plus on Saturday and Sunday, it was so well-received and people said they had so much fun following the action, that it was impossible not to follow up with it.

So that year two year three, and it’s become a tradition. So it is one of the highlights of the broadcast. You’re going out to Vegas. It’s become a. It most definitely is JK. I know you were particularly excited about having Steve on and I’m sure you’re going to have some questions for him here along the way, but you were telling me something off air before about why this [00:49:00] visit meant so much to you.

Like, like a kid with divorced parents. I have my fathers together at the same time. Um, I, my first. Even stint in media was when I called into Steve’s show as a listener, just to try to like, give my idea about how Bobby’s kitten should run down the Hill. And I thought I called in Casey, put me on hold.

Steve brought me in and how I was ready to rock and roll. And I was excited and I set it all. And then, uh, and then it ended up working out. So who would’ve known that, uh, that would have turned into this podcast and the. The fun, other opportunities that I’ve had. So I just wanted to have a chance to thank my, uh, my racing media parents.

There, you have it, Steve, you created this monster. It now you and I bought it. This is, this was it’s one of the great gags in all of the loss of broadcast racing, ride, cast history that you and I [00:50:00] somehow, and I suppose we got us, we got a fall in nip camera. We, you know, there’s, there’s so many people that, uh, That helped, uh, you know, unleash the power of Jacob.

They say success has many fathers, so does Jonathan Katie

so well put JK, what else do you have for Steve? Steve. I just want to make sure that we’re going to get a, more of an appearance this year on the show. Uh, some of my favorite, uh, some of my favorite moments when you’re out for the NHC is when, when you get the Mathias brothers over and, uh, last year you were lucky enough to introduce the world to a figure that all three of us know very well and, and the famous Mar of the vet runner Marv, the bat runner is one of those hidden gems that only a certain.

Segment a certain satellite core might, might encounter. And th the Matisse’s are [00:51:00] their radio gold. Jerry, it’s quite remarkable. I mean, starting with Paul’s win and then. That gave rise to the opportunity that, uh, to have Paul and Duke together that year when, when Paul and Duke were both at the final table, the whole group has really been an invaluable exposure to the inner workings of serious professional gamblers to the wider horse racing.

Community, because the Matisse’s had a bit of a mystique and obviously in Saratoga, you know, everyone knew them and knew them personally, the rest of the industry had some of these crazy notions that they were, you know, somehow something, you know, mystical, like. Some sort of, uh, what are the masons that like, [00:52:00] whereas he crits society.

Yeah, exactly. But they had some conniving scheming methods to them and cause some ridiculous suggestions and the opportunity to kind of bring them out into the light and, you know, hear their understanding and, and have them. Offer their insight to more casual players and, and aspiring players has really been, I think, uh, important and Marvin of course, is, is part of their whole atmosphere.

It’s, it’s a bit of a sitcom cast and Marvin, Marvin is like the Jonathan Winters character, Betty sit-com of the seventies and eighties. JK. Do you get that reference? He said, Jonathan, I that’s. The only thing I knew about don’t know, Jonathan Winters is I tell you what though. Mark is going to be a little upset this year.

I’ve seen an email that treasure Island is tightening the [00:53:00] clamps on outside food, on the, on the ballroom.

Somebody told me that and I told them they were wrong. I was like, no, we bring in outside food all the time, but I guess that’s so that rumor is true. Huh? Mark is going to be very upset about that. I don’t know. I just see him in like an X, X, X, L trench coat with a bags, you know, sorta stuffed into and around the, uh, the garment.

I he’ll figure out a way, way. He’s he’s resourceful. These are resourceful. That one, Steve, we definitely have to have you back at a later time to do some in-depth stuff on your background. This time we’re going to keep it. Pretty narrow. And just talk a little bit more about the contest experience and the broadcasting you do in that regard.

Try to get people pumped up for next weekend. Do you have anything special planned as far as this year’s NHC broadcast go or will it be our usual super fun fire drill. Grab everybody who’s around and see what kind of [00:54:00] stories we can get. It much like any visit that that I do out on location. It’s pretty freeform and pretty well served doing that because the minute you start to try to lay a foundation and schedule things in, I find myself in trouble.

I am much better off just letting it. Unfold. I do know that, you know, beside you being on hand and being there for the co-hosting duties, Rick Hammerly is coming, uh, on at least I think Thursday and Friday, rich Ang is going to be around for regular uh co-hosting and, uh, appearances. And from there. Well, just bring in a lot of former champions.

Every time we get a chance to bring in, uh, Mr. Michael Bay chalk, or a Mr. Stanley Pavlin we love doing that. And, uh, hearing from, you know, hearing from the living legends, the ones that they can find, there’s a, there’s a couple, I guess, that have missed [00:55:00] that has kind of disappeared. We also, of course, are due for an extended Bavan visit.

And that, that is if, if he is. Is able to hold themselves together until Thursday or Friday, because he’s been like a dervish online. I gotta tell ya. He’s been, he’s been like a maniac. The last 10. I spoke to him actually for this NHC special, that’s going to be coming out in short order. After this show.

That show is basically short interviews with a lot of the people competing and he sounded like he was getting down to business. I’ll put it that way. He definitely still had some strong opinions and a lot to say, but it seemed to me he was ready to channel his energy into this opportunity of a lifetime.

Dave of course, playing for $6 million in bonuses this weekend. Can’t wait to see what happens there. General question for you, Steve, about the tournament world. Are you [00:56:00] feeling still that this is one of the, the growth areas in racing? Do you feel like as much as we’ve progressed there still more ground to gain when it comes to contests and the overall sport of racing?

I think so. And I, but I’m strictly going by what I hear from the active. Player community. And then what I hear on the backend from the organizers. So whether it’s whether it’s from the BC people, whether it’s from the racetrack people, whether it’s from the NPRA. Yeah, listen to what everybody’s pulses for any, any certain moment.

It does feel like there was a little bit of fishtailing that went on out of, uh, the BCBC, uh, issues. Uh, The year before at Del Mar there’s the ongoing concerns that are voiced about [00:57:00] the financial structure of particularly at AAC itself, that it does have a bit of a cumbersome takeout structure, but the administration of an event like this has to be paid for the people that are administering this kind of, uh, of an event.

They have to be paid for. I mean, it’s not, I, I know that everybody seems to think that everyone should work for free. Everyone associated with racing is supposed to work for free to the, to the, you know, the benefit of everyone at large. I find that a very curious posture. So I think while people may grouse about.

Some of the, you know, the expenses that are taken off the top, the spirit of the contest, particularly NHC remains very sacrosanct. The fact that you cannot buy in to get to the [00:58:00] NHC makes it. Very special and it’s still makes it no matter what people, some of the players may complain about their way to, you know, getting their seats, the difficulty factor and the exclusivity factor.

So makes it that much more desirable. It’s special when you get there. And when you get through to the last day, when you get to the final table, I mean, the aura around the contest. And around the room, uh, we’ve got the, you know, we’ve got that special experience to be able to relate to people how special it is when they get there.

And then once they get there, no matter how they do all they talk about is getting back. That obviously is something that. It has grown organically and then it’s to the industry’s credit to the NCRA credit. And of course you have the origins of the contest of [00:59:00] VRF and everybody that was involved, this is, this is a winner and it has to be cultivated.

It has to be pruned and tweaked, uh, at all times. But yes, this continues to be a great area of target and, and of the player interest and goal setting and the live money side of it that continues to grow and evolve. Look at what we just saw at Pegasus enter 90 people, 190 entrance putting up. 12,000 each.

I mean that says something, the Kentucky Derby bedding challenge that Churchill kicked off that continues to go well and grow. So there’s a lot of things about the whole atmosphere that is working, but it does always need. Careful pending and careful administration to always work, to make it better and make it as, as attractive as possible to the players that might be injured.

I’ll piggyback one quick thought [01:00:00] off what you were saying about the NHC and the cost structure. There’s no bigger fan of the NHC than Paul Sherman. I think that’s fair to say. He’s had an incredible amount of success in the event. He has helped with the players committee. He’s an NHC hall of Famer, and even he says, The NHC is not about the value.

It’s about the experience of the event. And that’s just something I always like to underline. I call it the coolest horseplayer party of the year. It’s fun to be their closest thing. We have took a proper HorsePlayers convention with no disrespect to a Quester con and the cool things that are happening with that event.

It’s still not the NHC to be there. Competing against hanging out with your peers. It’s pretty special stuff. J K I believe you had one more and then we’ll let Steve get on with his day. Right? You mentioned experience, right. And it made me think of something is, is the two of you guys, both are not, uh, this is kind of a question for both of you.

Neither of you are a [01:01:00] shy to, to, to get to the window. Do you ever get to the NHC and as guys that don’t really participate because of your role in racing. Do you kind of wish like, man, I, this would be kind of fun. I wish I was. I wish I was playing today. I would like play. And my only, my only real contest experience came in 2006 at the world series.

When I was just getting involved with the show. John Parata had a pair of entries that, uh, had been traded for advertising for, uh, for the radio show. And I ended up coming out to Vegas. I, at first time I had been in Vegas. In, uh, and I’m, I might not even be exaggerating when I say 25 years. Uh, the last time I’d been there, it was Proctor and gamble.

Uh, when I was working on Folgers and I had so much fun, uh, met Johnny D for the first time and had a terrific three days. My first day I got blank. The second day I hit like four [01:02:00] races. Then the third day I ended up 11th. In day money and just missed a little prize, but I just had a riot. I started a play a little bit at that time because we weren’t really talking contest on the show at that point.

That’s 2006, 2007. And I, I found it to be problematic because I found that it was affecting my regular. Weekday weekend play. And I couldn’t really compartmentalize, you know, there wasn’t as much, uh, of the live money out there at that time. I can’t believe it’s 12 years ago, but I really wasn’t comfortable.

I, I found myself sort of rethinking everything about how I was approaching. And that’s why so often Pete and I, you know, Pete, you and I would talk strategy because I always found that it was not easy. To break [01:03:00] away from the thought process of your ticket building and bank role management to get into the game theory of, of the contests.

And I struggled with that. And, and when, when it started to impact my, my regular play, I stopped, I stopped playing the contest at that point, but then not too long after we were. Doing it, you know, from, uh, an observation point and, uh, doing the punditry on it. So I didn’t think it was even appropriate that I play, but I absolutely would love to dive in.

At some point I left the place of more of the cash and certainly there’s no reason not to play some cash goddess. My answer is basically the same. I had a similar issue messing around with mythical money tournaments. The mental jujitsu got to be a little bit much. And in my role as a pundit, even though I can technically now play, it doesn’t feel, it just doesn’t feel quite right, but there is definitely a part of me, JK.

Seeing the people cheering when a long [01:04:00] shot wins and the excitement in the ballroom, it would be really fun to be a part of that. But for now, I’ll just settle for a vicariously rooting friends in, and because of this podcast and because of being on Steve’s show all the time. Which we haven’t plugged properly, by the way.

That’s my fault at the races, which you can find on Sirius XM, and you can also find live streams and archives on Steve I feel like I know so many people I’ll just enjoy getting the vibe areas, thrill through them and that’s, uh, that’s good enough for me, at least for now. And Steve just want to thank you so much for taking the time out, coming on today.

When can people tune in and check out this coverage next weekend? Well, we’ll do the regular Monday through Friday shows on Thursday or Friday. Obviously I get there Wednesday night. So the usual nine to noon at the races. Then on Friday, the coverage we’ve typically started at about between two and two 30, [01:05:00] basically, uh, on the afternoons and we’ve gone.

Till about seven, seven 30 Eastern time on Friday, we go a little bit later on Saturday and then for a championship Sunday, final table, we go, I think till about eight 30. So it’s anywhere from five to seven hours of, of coverage. Those three days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And then I’ll stay in Vegas for Sunday night and do a Monday recap show by the time the.

By the time we get done Sunday, you can’t really leave. So, and I’m going to, I’m going to new Orleans anyway for Rissa star week. So, uh, I’ll spend one more day. Yeah, one more day in Vegas. Uh, before heading to new Orleans, do you ever sleep, Steve? This schedule is insane. There’s no rest at all. I’m not a big guy.

I, I, I’m a modest, uh, I’m a modest sleeper and I, uh, I actually, uh, team has had just about enough of it yet. Actually. I said, I’ve been home since the second week in December. And so [01:06:00] eight weeks is about as long as, as. As long as any married couple should stay together straight. I don’t recommend much longer than that.

I know who’s at Paul McCartney and Linda McCartney. They they’ve never spent more than one night apart. Their whole marriage. I God bless them. I don’t know how they do it. It’s time for those boot heels to be wandering. It sounds like, and there’ll be wandering out Los Vegas way. Steve absolute last thing people can listen to these broadcasts on Sirius XM and internet, or is some of it internet only.

Where can folks find the show? It’s typically just go to the website at, just off the stream. Uh, it says, listen, live the live link, the Uh, I’ve just got a robust, robust, the service for streaming because it’s tough for it’s tough. The last thing I would want to do with, with serious, we did it on Sirius the first year, but the problem is.

[01:07:00] They’ll give me a set of hours. What are we going to do on Sunday when they, when they cut us off at seven o’clock and the contest is still going. So, uh, I just, in terms of the, the non radio show, Podcasting just right on the stream, click on the, listen, the listen link, and you can tune in and you can do it.

You can do it on your phone. You can do it on your laptop, whatever it is, easy to just listen and write from the website. If you’re a player who’s competing thinking, Oh, I’d like to listen to that. Good news. You can. Lot of people listen in the subsequent weeks, you can just go to the archive. Steve is the website.

Steve Beck is the man. And I mean that in all senses. Appreciate your time today, sir. And look forward to working with you again soon. Well, I appreciate it. And can’t wait to have you there because, uh, I can, I can get up and walk away. And I know that you will, you will [01:08:00] carry the torch. It’s like the Olympic, uh, like the Olympic flame being, being trumped through, through the countryside.

I just handed off the feet and of course we’re all just there to root Jonathan. This is all an elaborate scheme to publicize the Jonathan. That’s all. That’s all we care about. Oh, you’re so kind guy he’s so kind. And with that, we’re going to wrap up this loaded edition of the, in the money players podcast.

Remember special edition coming in the next day or two, the proper and HC preview show. For now I’d like to thank Pat Cummings. I’d like to thank Steve Beck would love to thank Jonathan kitchen. Most of all, I want to thank all of you, the listeners and I we’re going to throw in another, thank you to the first two sponsors to come on board for this in the money players podcast ride.

Thanks. So much [01:09:00] to our friends at the thoroughbred retirement foundation and 10 strike racing, we will be back sooner than you think. I’m Peter Thomas foreign Italian. May you win all your photos.

By the way I taped the show, I taped the Fox sports show, but I haven’t had a chance to watch it yet. So I maybe that’s what I’ll do now. That’s why I haven’t said how wonderful you were, even though I know you were, I was, for some reason, I don’t know why I was nervous. Like the first 10 minutes of the IFB in my ear, people are yelling, Greg you’re on, in three hours and it was just throwing me off.

And then I kind of settled in a little bit. And, uh, it worked out. I ended the show with a 20 to one winner. I’ve heard about enough of your champagne problems. Oh, the [01:10:00] IFB. I don’t need it. I don’t need to hear it, man. You’re and definitely the most fun part of the whole show and as great a job as not just JK did, but the whole broadcast team over there at Fox sports.

My highlight was watching him try to be humble. Steve, when they came back on the air, after that 20 to one shot, one.

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