Show #3 – Tuesday, January 1, 2019

***Please note this was done with AI and likely contains errors and inaccuracies. ***

[00:00:00] Your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign, a towel back with you for show number three, the January 1st, 2019 edition. I am not downstate. In fact, we came up to Saratoga Springs for the new year to ring it in, in style.

So I am now broadcasting from the new studio that resides within the little house on the East side. Great. Coming up to Saratoga for the new year. Did a little 5k in the park that was fun. And as we record this, it is early in the morning. Not even light out yet up here in Saratoga and today’s show a little bit of [00:01:00] trickery.

Most of it is going to be the conversation JK and I had about the eclipse awards that we recorded the last day. So that will be coming to you in a minute, but just wanted to put in a couple of quick words, wishing everybody out there, a happy new year. Thank you all for your support. And there will be a further new year’s message.

If you listen past our closing song from Willy Nile today. So stick around for that. In the meantime, let’s go to the audio tape. Let’s talk about the eclipse award balloting, JK. This is something in past years, I’ve actually filled out my ballot live on the show. I’m not going to do that simply because I haven’t done enough work to be perfectly honest with all the craziness and everything going on in the world.

But I want to get your thoughts on these categories and. I will then go back over things slowly and carefully. And we’ll, uh, I’ll fill in my ballot before the [00:02:00] deadline on January 2nd. So, uh, how much have you done so far looking at these eclipses I’ve I’ve actually looked was, was helping a friend with.

Uh, having some ideas of, of, of the finalists through the finalist might be. So I did a, I did a little blast through some of them are harder than others, but, uh, yeah, I I’ve got some, some thoughts. Excellent. All right. Where shall we begin? What, what, what, what order do you want to go? And shall we look at the PPS in order?

Yeah, I’m going with the PPS. So steeple chase, obviously I’m not a, not a overly overly involved. I think it’s straightforward. I did. I looked at that enough to know that Zandra Beale looked like he had the credentials that I was looking for in wanting to put on top. When you put in the ballot, you’re meant to list three as if you’re listing the finalists, but really the points only count for that first one.

We needed so much. Deep into who’s going to be second and third, but just some interesting [00:03:00] conversations of who we are, who else we think will take votes for number one, and then fall in the second and third spot. I like it. So we’ll move on to two year old male. Game winner, right? Isn’t it over? Yeah. I don’t think there’s much to talk about.

He was unbeaten and obviously the breeders’ cup being the cherry on the sundae for me, when it comes down to something that’s close, I’m a breeders cup believer. I typically am going to go with the extra credit for the horse who did well in the breeders’ cup, perhaps a bit of foreshadowing there. I don’t think we need to worry too much about second and third there, unless you had any points you wanted to make about any of the other contenders.

No. I was just curious if you didn’t vote on game winner, who do you vote for? Like who, who is going to actually take another vote? Is the part to me that I thought was interesting guests, that there’s someone in the world that’s going to bet improbable what the five LinkedIn in the grade one that seems kind of silly to me that you would bet improbable over game winner.

I just want to see the human being who [00:04:00] bets someone else. Besides game winner. He could almost be unanimous, but anyway, yeah, it wouldn’t I’d have no problem. If, if he were, I think what you could see if you forced me to do a bet without we keep saying bet, pick without game winner, improbable Instagram, just cause you don’t have common form lines to completely make a mockery of it.

And they’re both undefeated, but I see no reason in the real world why you’d go anywhere. But game winner there. Agreed. Let’s move on to two year old filly. J K uh, how did you see this one? Yes, because it’s America. It has to be jaywalk. You know, I’ve been making this argument that like, we, we do dirt. Like that’s what we do in this country.

And so when you have a horse, like jaywalk who wins the present and a grade one, and then also comes back and impressively wins the breeders’ cup, juvenile fillies, like that’s supposed to mean a lot, but golly, man, a newspaper of record is really good. That was a really dominant and impressive performance.

I think [00:05:00] newspaper of records, future is obviously going to be potentially more exciting than what you’re going to get from a jaywalk, but that’s not what this award is about. I want to vote newspaper of record just because I just, I like saying her name and, and, and, uh, and she was obviously a lot of fun for me throughout this year.

Um, jaywalk as well, but I would think that jaywalk is going to win. I would think that. Jaywalk having the two grade ones is enough to push her over the top to get the win that miss Grillo, if it was a great one, obviously that could change things. But, uh, jaywalk will be my number one. I think newspaper record we’ll get some votes.

I mean, yeah, that sounds exactly right. I mean, for me, when you’re looking at it, grade one wins and money, right? So you’ve got 1.3 million versus 700,000 and the two grade one wins newspaper record couldn’t have been more. Impressive. And there are circumstances where I would have put her on top, but I think Jay walked in enough to keep the voting pretty [00:06:00] traditional here.

Uh, in terms of terms of having to list a third for, uh, the, the finalist portion. Was there another who leapt out at you? I think Bella Faena, she wants to grade one dog. So he didn’t run well in Churchill and the juvenile fillies, but she did run in when two great ones, uh, this year. So I think that it would probably be her.

I guess maybe chasing yesterday could get a couple of like weird. Why do you have a, why do you have a vote votes? Um, what you say for a vote that you deem inappropriate? A why do you have a vote vote? I don’t, I suppose Bellfina would be the more traditional choice, but I, I wouldn’t say it’s as bad as why do you have a vote?

Vote, but simply because you have a string of wins and a grade one, you, you think it would be that bad choice? I mean, knowing not for top spot, not for them top spot, but to put on the ballot, I guess that’s the difference in what we’re saying? You’re saying, you’re saying, why do you have a vote if you’re chasing yesterday over, over [00:07:00] jaywalk.

And I would agree with that three, your old male shortest conversation of the show. Well, I think we can just go ahead and skip over that part of it and go to the interesting part of it is justify. Obviously it’s going to win this one, but there, I do know who I think deserves to be second. And I think that this horse will, will ring near to your heart and that’s cat.

I flipped boy, I mean, one, two grade ones on two different services. And I think that that is, it is definitely something that deserves some recognition and I would. Cope that, that some, someone who, why do you have a vote vote? We’ll vote for Catholic boy instead of justifies. So the Catholic boy should at least get his name off it.

He deserves it well, he’ll he has the opportunity, the way they calculate the finalist to just from second and third votes, it doesn’t, nobody needs to vote for him to be number one for him to be on the ballot. It’s not like even if everybody goes all justified, they’ll still be three names, uh, for us to consider.

Perfect. Yeah. I mean, justify obviously is going [00:08:00] to win. He won a triple crown. There’s really not much more to discuss there. And I bet you McKinsey can, if people didn’t send their ballots in already could sneak in there. He had a pretty impressive, uh, campaign. And if you really, you know, obviously he wasn’t.

A full campaign, but he went to grade ones and, uh, and, and to, uh, to other graded stakes, to be on the ballot as one of the finalists, for sure. Justify wins at unanimously. Three-year-old Billy, what did this one look like for you? Um, Monomoy girl obviously is going to win that one. That’s pretty simple.

Well, I think rushing fall should be a finalist in the second. The third finalist was one that I struggled with. Um, you know, I guess I thought. People might vote for, uh, for, for men IBC, which I think would be deserved. She kind of danced all the dances and she showed up. She was in the money and every race she ran in this year, which I think is probably, uh, something that you, you, you want to get some credit for it, especially because all of those were greatest stakes racist.

So I would think midnight VCU deserves to be in the mix. [00:09:00] Uh, Monomoy girl being the winner, and I’d like to see rushing fall, take some consideration for, for her performances this year, gree, uh, you know, you have the grade one win for rushing fall. The manner of victory. Very impressive. Obviously Monomoy girl has to, has to get the nod for me the way that I look at it.

Things, but putting rushing fall up there on the ballot and midnight BC on the ballot feels better to me than grabbing one of the, you know, a Euro who raced once or whatever, the other ways that you could logically go. Another very quick conversation, older dirt, male. Maybe I’ll ask it this way. Who do you put in behind accelerate?

I think city of light. Definitely deserves, deserves a little bit of a look proof after that my heart wants Yoshida, but that doesn’t really make a lot of sense. Cause it’s old, older dirt. That’s tricky. A lot of his exploits happened on the green stuff. So second choice. I could definitely tell you that I would, I would vote for, for, uh, uh, for city of light.

And after that I’m not a hundred percent sure. All [00:10:00] right. I’ll take a longer look and we will get an answer there. Get some clarity before I have to send this ballot in. I hear you’re sentimental attachment JK for Yoshida, but if you want to go that route, how about a little love for mind, your biscuits and the campaign that he had?

You certainly couldn’t put them on top, but if you’re talking about filling out the underneath spots, would you have a problem with that? Not at all. I mean, I agree. I mean, I do wish that there was a, another grade one that took place on these, on these. These streets, but, uh, it is what it is. Let’s talk about older dirt, female.

How did you see it, man? This one’s really tough. I, I started to kind of just work my way through and I could find a bunch of horses that made sense. Uh, Abel Tasman obviously ran two grade ones, one, two grade ones, big ones, the personal incident with Saratoga. Also the Ogden Phipps on Belmont day, uh, both very popular races.

And then she just kind of had the two duds. You know, blue prizes wants some graded stakes, you know, uh, Marley’s freedom was one that kinda [00:11:00] caught my attention with the ballerina when, uh, the gopher wand and the other graded stakes, but, but not enough red ones to really say like, Oh, this is your champion.

And then I fell on the horse that like, I kind of fell on last year in the S in the sprint category, like, I guess, unique Vela. If you look at what she did, she won the grade tomorrow, Sam, uh, Santa margarita. Then she comes back and wins two more great ones, the bill, uh, the beholder mile and the Clement Ella hers.

So, I mean, I guess it’s unique, Bella. It’s it’s she’s the most, uh, underwhelming back-to-back. Um, eclipse champion, then we’ve seen, it feels like, but, um, I mean, I guess that’s where you go. Was it the city there? Wasn’t the Santa margarita. Was it? What was the, what was the race? The first race of the year for her?

Yes. And I swear to you JK, when we did this last year, I don’t even think we talked about unique, Bella. In the, in the eclipse show. So if you came around to her, it was, it was, I think after the fact, I think it was a bizarre situation where we just whiffed because I can [00:12:00] remember mapper near sake to us after.

Ah, what about unique Bella for that? And being like, yeah, we probably should have mentioned her. That’s kind of where I’m going to, I mean, you’ve got grade one wins and you’ve got a wide open category. I mean, Marley I think is the second place that I go when you consider the trip. In the breeders cup and then coming back to win again.

But you’re not too comfortable giving her the nod. No, I mean, if I, if I, if I look at the PPS and I cover up the racetracks that these races were run at it, it’s hard for me to even identify where some of these races took place, the dance smartly. I, I think that’s in California, right? Yeah. Okay. The great lady.

Uh, yeah. You know what I mean? It’s like, Those aren’t the races that you envision when you’re talking about a champion seven, 18, she earned to six 80 for unique Bella. So they’re close and unique Bella in so many fewer races. When you look at [00:13:00] figures, I think it also gives a little bit of a nod to unique Bella.

So I’m going to look at that one a little bit more, but I think you’re probably on the right track. Male sprint is up next. I think I know where you’re going to go here, but I’m not sure. Long on value.

So fun to see a horse that we had something to do with on an eclipse ballot. Thank you. One more time to our friends at 10 strike racing for letting us be along for the ride. It didn’t last long, but what a two race ride. I knew I should’ve gotten up there for Queen’s play to see it, but it was one of those.

It was going to be. Such a big fight with Susan, because we were meant to be with her family that weekend. Of course not having another race. I now wish I could time machine back and, and pick that fight as a, as a potential marital Hill to die on, but I did not do it. And, uh, there you [00:14:00] have it long on value.

Great to see the name on the eclipse. Ballot, but obviously not one that you, uh, you are going to be putting as a finalist, or are you that much of a Homer? No, I think Roy H and a and stormy liberal are going to run one to Rockingham. Ranch is going to hit the exact, the, in this thing. Uh, Roy, I think deserves the win.

The sprint championship obviously won the breeders’ cup race. He won the grade one at Santa Anita, stormy liberal. Back-to-back winner of the breeders’ cup, breeders’ cup, turf sprint. Um, and, and rolling off four wins in a row for him. I think he should probably get second. And then I guess, you know, here’s a horse.

I struggle with a little bit, I guess you, I would like to see city of lights name up there. Uh, you won the triple bend, obviously, uh, ran second in the forego and then won the one term breeders’ cup dart mile, which I think could probably, uh, could get you in off the goalpost in terms of sprint candidates.

He’s very interesting. Um, mind your biscuits? His campaign was so. Cool, but you can’t, and, and he’s a sprinter by nature, but he didn’t [00:15:00] run that way this year. So it’s not him. I think city of light deserves, uh, a look for third, even though his signature win of the year came in in a one turn mile. I still think when you’re looking at a bang up performance, uh, albeit in defeat in the forgo, but when you factor everything in and then you go back and you look at the triple band, I think it’s enough.

I think it’s enough to get them third, or are we where we overlooking somebody more obvious? Well, I think that stormy liberal is probably a little bit wise guy showed me. I would imagine that Imperial hint. Uh, with his grade one, uh, races on the dirt probably are going to be enough to keep him in the top three, uh, winning the, the Vosburg and the Vanderbilt.

So I think that he’ll probably be a male and also the true North, although it was only a grade two that it does take place, uh, on one of our biggest weekends and up at Belmont. So I think Imperial hint will probably be in the top three, maybe stormy liberal, because it took place on the turf. He might slip out of there and I could actually make an argument that maybe he could be considered for a.

Older male turf, [00:16:00] stormy liberal. Interesting. We’ll get there. We’ll get there. Okay. Let’s move on to the female sprint. JK, who were your finalists? So I guess Marley, you know, we, we, we have to use Marley in this spot based on that. But in these D and these little races where it’s like this, I, I I’d rather just have Shamrock Rose when she won the breeders’ cup, filly and mare sprint.

Let’s let that count for something. Um, I, I couldn’t even tell you trips considered though. I mean, do you, how much do you care about that? I mean, I care. I mean, I don’t know it was better in the race. I don’t think that we should consider trip when voting for this award because it’s a body of work award anyways.

So if one race. You know, one race shouldn’t carry so much weight, except it happens to be the breeders’ cup. And there happens to be no one else with, with a resume that makes me say, Oh, I have to vote for you. Makes me want to vote, or you make a great point about the body of work, but doesn’t the body of work.

Go to [00:17:00] Marley too, with a hundred speed figure in the grade one ballerina at Saratoga. It does. It does, but why is the ballerina worth more than the breeders’ cup? No, but to me, I can’t separate their breeders cup efforts. Yes. Shamrock Rose. Got it done. But I mean, I don’t think there’s any world in my view, in which Marley’s freedom.

Wasn’t just as impressive as you throw a blanket over who ran the better race from an ability point of view. Actually, if you really put my feet to the fire, I think Marley ran better from an ability point of view. If everything else favored Shamrock, I think I’d go Shamrock, but I think I’m going to go Marlin.

In all honesty. What I’ll probably do is this’ll probably be the, this will probably be the category that if I’m, if I happen to be there, uh, this will be the category. I’d probably go to the rest. Oh, that’s not nice. It’s it’s I don’t really care that there’s no, there’s nothing. There’s no. Horse that like, I’m going to look back 10 years from now and be like, man, that Marley’s freedom in 2018 boy, she really man, she was something special.

Like it’s just not, it’s not that type of [00:18:00] category this year. I don’t think let’s be honest. When you say race, I’m going to go to the restroom. You really mean race. I’m going to duck to the bar in the back and bet a few harness races with Dave Weaver. If they weavers there, that will happen. We gotta get him on the show.

Definitely another way we are adding this list of potential guests. That’s pretty fun matched only by our list of potential sponsors, male turf, JK. This one is. A little bit tricky, a horse that I will say probably deserves even a little bit of credit is his glorious empire glorious empire here with the, with the late December.

When isn’t that, isn’t that where you have to go. I mean, I guess let’s talk it through. Okay. So glorious empire is definitely a consideration. Who else? There’s no, I’m not even going to say this and the horse’s name. I’m not even going to mention the Christina Helmer. Um, I mean, Robert, you can’t [00:19:00] give it the Robert Bruce, just off the Arlington million when and the Fort Marcy, when you know story liberal, I, you probably can’t give it to stormy liberal.

He’s a sprinter one, one grade one, and. Uh, you know, you can’t do that. I can’t really give it to an expert. I just showed up here once in one, one race that doesn’t seem like it makes a ton of sense. Catholic boy. Um, he did have two stakes wins, but you know, only one grade one. And that was against restricted companies.

When you want to give that to, it’s just tough. It’s tough. So yeah, I guess. You got to give it, I mean, you know, Catapult’s sneaky, you know, grade two wins at Del Mar, but I guess you have to give it to glorious empire, which kind of makes me. Maybe, hopefully they run these events, these back to back and I can stay up there betting on it.

There is sick individual JK, so many horses from throughout the year that we talked about on the podcast in this, uh, in this category. It’s, it’s, it’s a lot of [00:20:00] fun. I don’t know which one to taunt you with Mo, most I was gonna make a spring quality joke, but I figure you’ve suffered enough for at the, at his hands.

Yeah, let’s just give it to Yoshida and be done with it. Female turf candidates. Fun to look back through these PPS. What did you do? The first question is, is do you feel dirty if you give it to enable? No. You don’t know. I mean, dirty. No, it’s the Breeder’s cup turf. It’s if you want to reward people for taking these kinds of chances, I’m not saying it’s definitely what I want to do, but I don’t feel dirty.

Older sister, Charlie. I mean the one for grade one’s on American. Yeah. Yeah. I think when you look at what the rules are, sister, Charlie’s probably the better choice. I’m just saying I don’t, I don’t have like a huge problem. If somebody wants to, wants to go in the different direction. I don’t think there’s too much doubt who’d win if they raced, [00:21:00] but.

Now is that right? She went for, I remembered the three. Oh, the Jenny Wiley. Yes. I mean, that’s a very hard resume to deny sister. Charlie probably should win, put an ABL up there with the finalists who would be your third? I mean, I think probably one of the other Chad’s would, would have an argument with either Hooni or raving beauty.

I think Arabian view. You had two great ones, but man, I’m the, the, the. The underdog lover in me kind of wants, uh, the silica to get, to get her name up there based on yeah. You know, being claimed and winning grade ones and winning graded stakes. I think she would be really fun to see up there, but I, you know, I also don’t think that you can ignore raving beauty having one.

Uh, two great ones and being in the money and two others now, other categories, JK, I definitely going to want to do some more, uh, work and digging on, but let’s have a quick conversation. [00:22:00] Starting with owner feels like good dolphin and Ronis. Stand above the rest of the crowd. Huge year for Godolphin with over 20 million in earnings, as well as a lot of graded stakes success, sixth grade, one wins.

Are you tempted to take one of those two? And which one would you give preference to anybody else you want to nominate quickly? Yeah, it’s tricky with, Ronis like not having nearly as many, uh, as many horses, but seems to have a lot of stars though. You know, they run a lot of lower level stuff, probably a lot more lower level than good dolphin, but no, the, the money difference there, you got to go with good dolphin there with a 20 million, uh, winning a lot of big races, a big operation.

If you don’t give it to good dolphin, you probably want to give the 10 strike. But, uh, but definitely a good dolphin. If you’re. If you’re a more of a blue blood, what do you thinking in terms of breeder? This is when you have to dive really deep into, I think, to try to figure out [00:23:00] where it’s at. It can be misleading.

The stats WinStar obviously had the most, uh, most money overall with, with a lot of runners. Uh, they breed a lot of horses. Calumet was up there as to best solu had $7 million in earning with that. That can be a little bit misleading because that came all from, from gun runner. Um, John Gunther obviously bred a triple crown winner.

There should probably be some consideration there. Um, this is one that I’ll probably not give you an answer on. I’ll let you dig a little bit deeper, but those are some of the storylines at least I would follow. Yeah. Going in Gunther is the name on the, on the lips. And that probably that’s the way that I’m going to want to go in the end.

But I do want to dig around a bit more and giving WinStar some sort of a nod for the earnings is, is, is tempting 215 starters. On the year, totaling 8.4 million plus probably ends up on the shortlist as well. We’ll see about the third name and we’ll see who I end up sticking. That’s one where I’m going to figure [00:24:00] out my contenders and then grind a little bit more because it’s, uh, it’s easy to just dial into the information that gets spoonfed to you when you get the ballot.

But I think sometimes you can come up with some clever ideas on your own. If you dig a little bit deeper, does that sound about right to you? Absolutely. All right, let’s go on to jockey. J K. Maybe we should have done apprentice jockey first, but I clicked on jockey. So that’s what we’re going to do, uh, which are T’s.

Do you give it to me? I think it, to IRA this time, he had almost a hundred more wins and then Jose had a better year just in general. I think it’s pretty simple. I think it’s probably a slam dunk that it’ll be Iran. It’ll be back to back or tease brothers. And I imagine that won’t be the last time it happened.

Okay, while we’re talking about riders, do you have an opinion on apprentice? I’m not a believer. You’ll see certain folks. Almost proudly talk about their ballots and be abstaining in certain categories. And generally I don’t, I don’t love [00:25:00] that. I think that it’s, it’s our job to dive through the data and make decisions and try to help make the most informed decisions.

We can apprentices the one category where I do have some sympathy for that point of view, because I feel like unless you watch. The specific candidates involved every day, you might be really missing some nuance. The stats don’t necessarily tell the whole story. Do you agree with that as a philosophy? J K and what do you think about this category specific?

I do. I think this was tricky. I think the thing you want to probably look at first is the amount of wins that someone had and then the money they earned. But then you also want to try to, to see like, you know, who. Yeah. You know, I don’t think you want to necessarily punish someone for having a lot more starts than someone else, but you also don’t want to give someone too much credit who had a lot more at bats.

So I typically, when I look at this list, I’m I feel pretty comfortable just looking to see who earned the most money and who had the most wins. That’s Western [00:26:00] Hamilton. I’ll tell you what this Ray, Lou Gutierrez kid I’ve actually last week, like fell in the YouTube hole and watched like three or four interviews with him.

He’s got a college degree. He, his father was a, was a trainer. I think his uncle was a rider. Uh, he went down to Gulf stream and now he’s riding an aqueduct and, uh, seems to really have a career ahead of him. And so he’s one that, you know, with 94 winds at a 737 starts is one to consider. But I would imagine that Western Hamilton will just win based on winning the, the, the, uh, the, the winds and the, uh, the earnings.

What do we have left? Brainer. Yes, we got to do trainer. I was actually, I had forgotten about trainer. I thought we’d done it all and was setting up a gag for horse of the year. That’s talking about trader really quickly. Chad Brown sits at top the earnings list as mucin and Baffert right in behind Baffert you know, is going to be on the ballot at least for producing the second, a triple crown when you’re not producing, but training the second [00:27:00] triple crown winner in just a handful of years.

Who do you give your top vote to in this category? I guess it has to be Chad. I think Steve asked me son probably could deserve, can deserve it every year, right. With, you know, 397 wins. He runs a lot more horses than everyone else and a lot in different places. The money earnings, I think for Steve is probably a little bit skewed based on, on gun runners of, uh, the Pegasus, which shows up in this calendar year.

So, uh, I mean, I guess I wouldn’t have a problem if, if, uh, if Bob got it, For, you know, having a triple crown winner wouldn’t have a problem with Chad. Got it. I wouldn’t have a problem with Steve. I think one of the interesting people that you could maybe throw into the mix, and I don’t know if he’s ever been a finalist before.

Probably not. Uh, it would be Brad Cox for trading the great long on value, uh, and also probably the three-year-old, uh, Philly champion. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe that one too. Maybe you get sneak, sneak a little reference in there for the three-year-old champion, but you may put, give the props [00:28:00] one more time to long on value.

I say one more time. I assume the, the veneration of long on value will be an oral meme that will proceed. Way into the hundreds of episodes of this show. And that brings us to horse of the year. I think this is good. I mean, we’ve already had the debate. I think we feel differently about it. I’m voting for accelerate.

I feel good about voting for accelerate. I think, you know, the horse that ran faster for longer, I’ve talked about my giving extra credit to the breeders’ cup classic in the past. I have no problem. I’m not one of these people. And it’s funny because there’s people on both sides of this argument. It’ll say you’re an idiot.

If you don’t agree with me, I will not do that. For me the way I look at the world, very happy giving the award to accelerate. I feel like the only argument for justify is buddy won the triple crown. That’s honestly as impressive as it is. He has his [00:29:00] own perfectly good three-year-old award that we can give him again.

I don’t have a problem if you’re all about the triple crown. And you can’t see past it and want to give it to them. I’m not going to tell you you’re wrong, but that just ain’t me. It’s not how I look at horse racing. It’s not how I look at the world. If you made me choose between being a triple crown guy and a breeders’ cup guy, I’m a breeders’ cup guy through and through.

And I feel like if you feel that way, accelerate is. The clear and correct alternative. Have you changed your mind at all? Since we initially started talking about this or are you still team justify all the way? And can you give a reason other than some variation of  but the triple crown? Yeah. It’s to me it’s very simple.

It’s it’s a, it’s a question that I’ll ask anyone who votes for accelerate and not have no, I don’t, I don’t have a problem with it, but I’ll just ask the question and then I’ll move on. If frosted nails, American Farrow. The first Saturday in June in 2015. And we don’t see a triple crown in 2015. And this is the first one we’ve seen [00:30:00] in 30 something years.

Does it change your vote? I don’t think so. It’s hard to say. Cause there might be an emotional weight that changes things around. But I think if everything else was similar, well, obviously it would be, we’re still at that point. I think I’m still voting the same way. It may have been different if there hadn’t been a triple crown and if.

The races that justify ran had been more complete and, or he’d beaten better horses that went on to do anything through the year. I think at that point, those factors would also come more into play for me, but as it stands, I think that when you really, I understand emotionally, it probably would have been an undefeated justify.

Had it been the first triple crown, but I don’t think that’s right. And I think in this thought experiment, I’m happy sticking with my vote, where it was. Where is yours justify? Definitely justify. I just feel [00:31:00] like that. Uh, I feel like when, when everything about our sport, all right. When you debut a horse in a maiden race at Santa Anita at Saratoga at Belmont.

When you debut a horse at Del Mar, when you buy a horse at the Keeneland sale, when you buy a horse, the Saratoga sale, when you’re at the two year old and training sale, when you’re, when you win, it’s all this entire sport is focused a lot on almost all. At least that’s the first step and the triple crown.

And when you can do that, when you can win the all three of those races in that short amount of time. And, and it’s, it’s proven to be a very difficult thing to do. We’ve seen a lot of great horses that haven’t been able to get it done. And I just think that it’s an accomplishment that can’t be ignored and it’s surely can’t be ignored for, uh, winning a gold cup and winning that, that, that, that, that the, uh, things that, that [00:32:00] dinner less than.

Um, less than, than, than Adam, you know, not admirable, but less than excitable, you know, was just a lot, a lot of kind of average races. You’re underselling some of the great races in the sport by taking a look by describing accelerates campaign in that way. I think that’s a mistake just from like, if it was a debate team and I’d say for your argument, like don’t diminish what the other horse did.

Well, I’m not diminishing it. I’m just saying like, You know, just, just look at the horses that he beat and the grade ones. And then I’ll, I’ll leave it. Look at the three-year-olds that justify beat. None of whom went on to do anything fair enough, but he won. It was a triple crown, C, C the one argument, triple crown, triple crown, the celery and the San Diego handicap beat move daiish and fear.

The cowboy. You can tell me who I double Pavel and prime attraction and the Pacific classic. West coast and ISO Therma to Perforce. And [00:33:00] the awesome again, and West coast is a decent horse, but it’s all about the Breeder’s cup classic to me and the string of grade ones. So you can pick apart the form all you want to me, it doesn’t diminish the fact that the horse ran faster.

For a longer one, the breeders’ cup beating any of the horses he would have faced. Had he shipped East? That was something else. You said you might’ve felt better about him in our previous conversation, had he, had he shipped the East, he beat, he beat any of those horses anyway, in the Breeder’s cup. Look, I’m not saying you’re wrong.

I, like I said, if, if you think the triple crown is the end all be all. Give me the breeders cup. You take triple crown. I think the sport would be healthier if we put more focus on older horses, more focus on running 12 months out of the year, more focus on a series of races, open to all the best competitors, rather than, you know, High school, basketball of the triple crown trail.

And that I feel again, I’m not saying your votes wrong, but I think you’re, you’re going the [00:34:00] wrong way by picking apart the form of the best older horse with championship. I don’t disagree. I just think that it’s a, there’s a certain, uh, Certain amount of prestige that goes with, with winning those three races.

You’ve got to go with that one last question for you had all the horses who, but for unlock or very aggressive tactics by other riders would have won the triple crown in the interim between 78. If three of those horses had one, which they honestly easily could have. I mean, I’m not saying it would be the favorite, the three of them would have won, but you know, it was like a six to one chance or something that you could have seen three more triple crown winners under, under other circumstances.

Would that change your mind if it, if the triple crown wasn’t something that had only happened twice since 1980, less impactful. Definitely. But I still feel like, uh, winning the, you know, the, the, the Derby, the Preakness and the Belmont. Uh, in that short span [00:35:00] is still more impressive than the grade ones that accelerate strung together because here’s the truth.

And I don’t know how you feel about this and maybe you don’t. I feel like the Derby and the classic are equal. They cancel each other out. They’re equal. Interesting that I think that that line of argument makes more sense. I just can’t call racist equal when one isn’t. Open, but you make a great point. I mean, there’s such a focus about that.

It’s not everybody, but there’s a disproportionate amount of focus with people who are in the game to win that one race. So I can absolutely see placing it equal. I don’t think there’s any logical fallacy there, but in my gut, I just take a little bit the other view and, and give a little bit more credit.

But I, but I think in terms of making a really good argument, you’re, you’re that dog hunts a lot better than the. Feel of the cowboy argument? That’s fair. I that’s fair. I just, you know, [00:36:00] That’s fair. I’ll leave it at that. We can agree to disagree. It is not a, we’ve talked about it so many times already on this show.

It’s better to not agree. It makes it more fun. We’ll see what happens. Oh, I’ll tell you this. The voters are going to see it your way. If I was betting on who was going to win, I mean, accelerates tend to one, uh, he, I don’t think that enough people are gonna see it my way, but I’m just making the argument and sticking to my guns because, uh, That’s how I feel.

And it doesn’t make sense to just try to be on the winning team and vote justify. What do you think? Do you think there’s any chance justified does not? Oh, I think there’s probably a chance he doesn’t win, but I think he will. Would you take the 10 to one on accelerate? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Interesting.

Interesting. Interesting. All right. I’ve kept you longer than I said. J K uh, I want to thank you so much for taking time out, away from your family and getting this done. I know it was a little crazy and I appreciate you doing it. And, uh, just want to say, thanks, man. Also once again, [00:37:00] Thanks to all of you, the listeners it’s been great.

Not only do you make the show fun to do, but you’ve made this transition to having, uh, our new show as seamless as can be. We hope you will continue to stay with us and support us. Support our sponsors. Once we get them, that’s all going to be happening soon in the new year, we will be back for the next show.

I don’t exactly know what it’s going to be subscribed to the new iTunes feed we are up on there. In the money players podcast, stick with us on Twitter. I’m at looms boldly. He’s at UT big hair and good things going to be coming down the pike in 2019. That’s it for now? I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel.

But you went all your photos.

[00:38:00] Um, so paren it’s January 1st, that means that every horse born in this hemisphere has a birthday today. Do you have any message for the horses? Happy birthday?