Show #4 – Friday, January 4, 2019

Hey everybody:

I just finished up the editing on show #4 and am thrilled that we got Chris Fallica to be our first guest on the new show. Check it out below.

Also, just wanted to add a quick thank you to our buddy Dink for providing the image accompanying this post. We will be having him on the show soon to discuss his life and times as a pro bettor and what it was like to be played by Bruce Willis in a movie.

As for the fortune, it’s obviously awesome just in and of itself, but it also made me think about the year ahead. I’m not a big New Year’s Resolution guy but I am a believer in setting a New Year’s intention or two, not unlike how yogis set an intention at the beginning of practice.

Among my intentions for 2019 is to show a little more restraint on the betting side — fewer degenerate-y action plays and more bets with an edge. I’m looking to bet — and live — more mindfully.

And just so you don’t think I’m only concerned with improving as a horseplayer, as part of my new intention, I want to filter my thoughts, words and deeds through a place of compassion. Compassion for self, compassion for loved ones, even compassion for the randos who hang out in the internet comments sections of various websites.

One last time I’ll say Happy New Year!


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[00:00:00] Your listening to the, in the money players podcast. Hello, welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is show number four. It is, I don’t even know what day it is. It’s January 4th, 2019. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign Italian. Back with you still at the little house on the East side, in Saratoga, up here for those fun first night activities, a parent off from school all week.

So we’ve been hanging up here, been spending a lot of time at a pretty terrific. Bar, I don’t think I’ve ever talked about it on the show. It’s sort of a bar slash bottle shop called pint sized up on Broadway. Been having a lot of fun in there with the Zach and Augie and the crew definitely worth the visit.

We’ll be talking more about [00:01:00] pint size when we revisit our Saratoga lifestyle show. Little later in this show, I may try to catch up with a quick lifestyle question that was hit. To us during our transitional phase, um, about Santa Anita. So look forward to that. We also are going to have a very special guest.

Second half of this episode, first ever guest on the, in the money players podcast will be Chris. Felica the bear from college game day. And looking forward to that, but before we get to any of that, let’s bring in the co-host of this program. I think since our friendship sort of officially began at the Belmont stakes, and gosh, I don’t even remember what year now, 2014 maybe.

Um, I haven’t gone this long without speaking to the man due to both of our crazy travel situations and everything going on in the world. You know him, you love him. He’s the people’s champion. You may not know this about him. When he attended the university of [00:02:00] Texas deemed too small to play on the football team, but he was given the awesome responsibility of taking care of Bebo the Longhorn mascot.

And we’ll just have to ask him if he ever got so wild as he did the other night, I’m talking of course, about Jonathan kitchen, JK. What’s up. Cheers mate. Cheers. No, he Bebo is a, uh, he’s a sneaky guy. I’ve never seen him act like that before four though. He’s typically pretty calm. Um, and I think he’s, and he’s always calm from what I’ve always known to be, uh, uh, some assisting performance enhancing materials, if you know what I mean?

Interesting to mellow him out. Yeah. Just to chill him out. I mean, there’s like we have a cannon that goes off at the Texas games every time there’s a touchdown. Or the end of a quarter. So it sneaks up on you like an actual can and they shoot off. So, and he’s like kind of by the Canon. So the idea that he wouldn’t be at least [00:03:00] somewhat chilled out, um, being in a stadium full of a hundred thousand people with.

Walkers by and cheerleaders and, and, you know, and cheers and boos and all kinds of stuff. Uh, I guess they didn’t give him the full dose last time when, uh, when OCGA came swinging by he, he got a little bit, a little bit chippy. He set the tone, though. I will say that he set the tone. I was going to give you a few minutes to Crow about your team’s performance, sort of hearkening back to the other podcast that we used to do a about sports.

Well, here’s the thing we can talk about this. We have had many debates at a dinner situation, especially sitting around sports fans and gamblers. Uh, there are certain times zones that are good for certain things. I’m a big fan of the Pacific time zone with the Gulf stream, starting at nine aqueduct starting nine 30.

Um, uh, you know, the sporting events football comes on at 10, Monday night. Football does not a fit interfere with, with like evening plans. The East coast, not nearly as big of a fan of games, [00:04:00] starting at 9:00 PM, things like that. But boy, I’ll tell you what, when you’re in London. And, and, and your football team plays at one 45 in the morning.

There’s not a whole lot. You can do well. It’s funny. You should mention it. I’m sure folks can remember the longtime listeners back in 2015 on the Mets. Great run. I was getting up. I would go to sleep and I would just get up in the middle of the night and watch the game and then go back to sleep for a few hours.

It’s it’s really tricky. Uh, let’s talk about London for a minute. JK, did you have a good trip over there? Did you end up getting to any, uh, proper football? Did you end up getting to any racing? Watch the little bit of a football game on Sunday morning and, uh, just a random pub. Um, but no, I didn’t, I didn’t get to any games.

The closest racing thing I did, which was, which was actually great was I went to a dinner with Nick luck. Oh, fantastic. Which is always fun. I find Nick to be one of the greatest presenters in our sport, uh, over there and over here, I [00:05:00] just think he’s, he does a phenomenal job. He’s super fun to hang out with fun, to listen, to tells great stories.

And so, uh, it was fun to hang out with him that evening. Um, so just had dinner and that was the, that was the most racing thing I ever did. The other most racing thing I did was I walked into a bet shop. And I bet 50 pounds on a one to two shot and I put up, I won and I left. I made one horse racing wager while I was there.

And it was, uh, it was, uh, it was a winner, not too bad, not too bad. My friend a good, good get the money, get the money off those guys. It’s always good. When you can do that. Great to hear that, uh, Nick is in fine fettle and I just second that idea, definitely one of my. Honestly, broadcasting people that I just look up to so much.

I think the way that he blends the professionalism, the, uh, serious side of things, as well as having a sense of humor and making it fun and talking [00:06:00] about gambling, it’s all, all good stuff, uh, that he brings to the table. And, uh, I’m envious about that one. How was the MK show? New year’s Eve? Fun as well. We, uh, we, we, um, we got there a little bit early.

I got to check out the facility. It’s like an old called print works is the name of the place that it was at. And it’s kind of like this old, um, like warehouse situation. So it’s kinda like, uh, you know, real, proper raves setting. And so we, uh, we hung out, we went out, he did his show, he had pyrotechnics on the stage.

So usually it’s kind of fun. You can get on the stage and like really look out to the crowd and see like, His view, but when he had pyrotechnics, obviously he couldn’t, uh, the show is successful. He got out of there quickly made his private jet to go to Manchester. Um, and, uh, we just, we hung around yeah.

The city for a little bit longer, but they closed. Uber was shut down. Um, new year’s Eve night, they like closed it. Like Uber was like, sorry, we’re not doing Uber right now. That’s what the app said [00:07:00] because they closed some roads. So we took the train. Uh, like some proper, proper Londoners and, and we, we made it, made it back to shortage.

Oh, you were staying out in shortage. Good call. Good call. Is that where your bro stays? He usually stays out there. He happened to be staying closer to the water. He stayed in like the Mondrian. Um, I don’t know if you had been there, but, uh, he stats where he stayed, I guess it was closer to the venues.

Right? I know it only by reputation, but lots of cool stuff going on out in East London w uh, The, our UK users know this already. I don’t know. What’s changed with Uber in London when I was there in 2015, it was great on subsequent trips. Almost unusable, just really unreliable  seems like it’s more expensive.

I’ve just had a lot of problems. The tube is so great during running hours. You’ll you’ll have no problem there. It’s certain lines shut down at a certain point. So I’m glad you didn’t get skunked on that front, but anyway, just my 2 cents about London transport. I’m glad you had a good time. Let’s get to this [00:08:00] listener question, J K, that I neglected and I’m going to go against something.

I once said on the other show that we were going to keep lifestyle stuff compartmentalized, because it was the kind of thing where we do the lifestyle shows and we would have some people telling us it was the greatest thing they’d ever heard and other people, uh, Uh, deriding it and the saying it was fluffing, this and that, but this is just one question.

Um, somebody was looking for stuff to see and do around Santa Anita. I’ll let you go first. What are some of your favorite places to stay things to see and do well you’re you’re right down the street from Pasadena. So getting over to Pasadena and just kind of. Taking in Pasadena and whichever, whatever it is that you like to do, they probably have a pretty good version of it in Pasadena.

So getting over to Pasadena is fun. Um, uh, obviously we, we talk them about, uh, our love for dim din Tai Fung. Uh, the dumpling shop that’s in the mall, across the street from St. I needed. There’s also like. An original [00:09:00] one. I don’t know exactly where it’s at, but it’s around our Katy quick Google. We’ll sort that out.

Um, uh, there’s an Italian restaurant that seems to always have at least one racing personality in it that I’ve been called Nikki seas. Um, that’s not too far away. And then obviously the Derby restaurant, uh, is one that if as a racing fan, you should probably try to get over to, um, it’s it’s, uh, it’s, it’s got just a bunch of memorabilia all over the place.

You’ll usually run into other racing personality types in there. So that’s always cool. And for the, uh, for the, for the, for the real thrill seekers out there, Uh, you don’t even know what I’m going to say, but you’re gonna laugh when I say it. I check out the drink, the drinkers all effects. Oh God. The drinkers hall of fame.

That is a truly terrifying establishment where I don’t know if they’ve been grandfathered in somehow or if they just scoff at the law, but a bar where they’re still smoking at it. It’s like a time machine folks. [00:10:00] Yeah, it’s a tough place. It’s a, it’s definitely for me, like someone who cannot stay in cigarette smoke, it’s like a, it’s like a, like an in and out move.

Like just go in there, have a sip of your beer and then just say you did it. And then, and then add on down the street. A quick shot maybe might be, uh, might be a good way to do it. Um, I’m going to try to find the name of this brewery that is not far from Santa Anita, that I really liked. It is called outro lodge brewing.

This was really cool. They made some neat beer, some interesting sour stuff, some interesting hoppy stuff, more the hoppy stuff. If I’m remembering right, was more in like the East coast, new England type style, but worth the visit. Pasadena has a lot of good beer things. I think you nailed our favorites, JK.

I mean, those seem to be the places we returned to. Um, over and over again, in terms of staying, if I’m on the budget, it will [00:11:00] typically be one of those small places in Arcadia near the track. If money is no object and you’re doing a Santa Anita trip, go to the Langham, that is a spectacular hotel parents showing her fine taste informed me that she wanted to live there after a few days of staying at the Langham.

You remember, we did less listeners may remember. That we did the shows from the phone booth, the old phone booth when we were out there for some world HorsePlayers tour, uh, official business. It’s, uh, it’s really cool. Any other advice about where to stay or what to do when you’re out there? Well, you know, there’s another thing that I’ve kind of come up with, um, as of late.

And I don’t know if we’ve even really talked about it before, but I discovered it. Uh, my last trip, the Ontario airport is like 15 minutes from Santa Anita. It’s not far at all. And although it probably limits your ability to, for like a direct flight, like you could from lax, from, from bigger [00:12:00] airports, obviously the New York airport, Chicago, so on and so forth.

I would imagine that a direct flight to Ontario is probably harder to come by, but if you can get into Ontario and out of Ontario, it is significantly easier. Lax. Is an absolute disaster. Yeah, it just is. I mean that, the hardest part of lax is from Santa Anita. It’s about a 55 minute Uber ride, almost an hour Uber ride, but here’s the crazy part.

You get to lax with like 40 minutes, but if it takes 20 minutes to get just around that U shaped situation where your, the terminal drop-offs are, because it’s just so congested. And so if you can get in and out of Ontario, Yeah, it’s definitely worth it. I don’t know who flies in and out of Ontario, but Burbank is similar.

Burbank’s a little toy airport. The flight times aren’t super convenient from New York, but you can make them work for you, especially if you don’t mind a red eye, but I would say. If your gun, if you’re forced to do lax, pick a [00:13:00] wise guy, time to fly, you do not want to be dealing with rush hour situation going from Pasadena area Arcadia area, um, out to, out to lax.

So fly the wise guy time. Or, uh, go ahead and explore one of those other options. I think we covered that pretty well for a few quick minutes. If the listener who asked that question, has any followups hit us up on Twitter? Maybe we can give you more specifics of what you’re looking for, whether it’s a dining recommendation, hotels, whatever.

Sometimes the more info you give us the better info we can give you. And that goes for all manner. Of questions on the podcast. We still have a couple of minutes JK before we bring in Chris Felica anything else you’ve been paying attention to jonesing to talk about in the world of racing? Nothing that comes to mind.

I hadn’t, uh, I hadn’t really, um, been plugged in. I did listen to [00:14:00] two, uh, Baffert on BIC where he, he had mentioned that the plan that they’re looking pretty heavily, it seemed McKinsey run, uh, and the Pegasus. And he also kind of addressed the question that someone else had mentioned or the, the, the thesis that I’ve heard.

Other people come up with that. That, uh, that McKinsey was, is a one turn type of horse. And he’s going to Excel at that distance and not long, or, and Baffert kind of scoffed at the idea and suggested that that the longer he’ll run, if he’s right, he’ll run all day, he just has to be right. And, uh, he just didn’t feel like he had a right for the breeders’ cup classic.

And that’s very much in line with what you had been suggesting JK. So I’m sure those words were near and dear to your heart. We encourage our friends of course, to listen to that original interview, which you can all each hour of Steve’s broadcast. He does three hours a day, Monday through Friday, and they’re all available in cast form.

And as I’ve said many times and continue to believe there is no better, faster way to, uh, [00:15:00] you become a racing insider than to listen to Steve. Not only. Is the content great. But folks, because of how long he’s been in the game, how respected he is the fact that he’s a horseman himself, a better himself.

People talk to him in ways they don’t talk to other people and you can get some very Frank and interesting assessments. So check out that Baffert interview and everything All right now, it’s time. We’re going to bring in our first ever guest on the, in the money players podcast, you know him from ESPN college game day, you know him from horse racing tournaments, such as the NHC, which he seems to qualify for every year.

He’s Chris . Chris, how are you? My friend. I’m doing well. So I guess I’d go down and what the Guinness book of world records, I was the, uh, the answer to the first ever guest on this, uh, illustrious podcast. It’s an honor. Good, good, good talking to you guys. It’s been a while. That’s awesome. We have to start right in your wheelhouse, Chris, with talking about this game Monday night, you will be, [00:16:00] uh, on hand, you will be working on TV.

Uh, what are your thoughts about this championship football game? I keep going back and forth on ultimately, uh, w w what way to land, but I can’t wait for Monday night. It’s the two best programs in the country that have been the two best programs in the country for the last five years or so you, you, you, you look at the two teams combined.

I think they’re like 109 and seven over the last four years. So, uh, People can complain about this alleged fatigue between Alabama and Clemson. But, uh, I look at it on the other hand, these are two great dominant teams and people love to hate the sec. And people love to hate Nick Saban in Alabama. Uh, but you got two quarterbacks who are.

Like top five NFL type, future draft pick type guys, tons of skill all over the field. And if you look at the, the landscape this year, the list of [00:17:00] teams that can beat Alabama, uh, is short it’s Clemson and it’s Georgia. And if you look at Clemson this year, they possessed a quarterback and Trevor Lawrence, unlike Kelly Bryant last year.

He’s got weapons all over the field. He can throw, we saw what the Sean Watson did to Alabama and 15 and 16. I think Clemson has a great chance on Monday night to win because of that offensive skill, I would expect it another relatively high scoring game, just because I think both quarterbacks are going to get favorable, match up with the opposing secondary.

Uh, is good as both teams are. That seems to be the one area where both teams are a little weak and susceptible to some big plays. But, uh, as we sit here right now, if I had to make a call on the game, I, I think I will take Clemson because Dabo Swinney is teams put, played so well. Uh, in the underdog role, he’s played up all year.

This whole we’re on the rest of y’all bus. He does, he does an [00:18:00] unbelievable job and just like. Getting his team to buy into this role as an underdog, even though talent wise, they don’t take a back seat to any what’s the I’ll I’ll take Clemson plus the points here. All right. And do you have a little bit of a lean to the over, am I hearing there as well?

Or do you feel like the market has that about right? Yeah, I think it’s about right or 59, but, but I, I think it’s, uh, It, it it’s just a 30, I think both teams get into the thirties. I think it’s a pretty high scoring game because I do think, uh, with the way that both teams play defense, like I said, you’re not going to get, I don’t think a ton of long sustained drives in the game.

I think you’re going to get a lot of long touchdowns authentically. So we’ll, we’ll, we’ll see if double, but I could see a, a 34 31 type games somewhere in that range. Jake. Hey, I got to let you push back on our, uh, on the other podcast. When we talked about this game, you were all about Alabama. Do you still feel that way as the day approaches?

[00:19:00] Um, I do, obviously Clemson is, is, uh, like Chris mentioned, they are, in my opinion, probably one of the only teams that can beat Alabama when Alabama shows up to play. I just, man, the guy scares me. He has got like red on Nick Saban does some of the most things with football teams and just stories I’ve heard of about Nick and, and how, uh, how focused his team can be and just, you know, there’ll be a 30 and he’s still ripping into people because that’s just the kind of coach he is.

He demands that perfection. And I think that games like this. Is what that, that program was built upon. It’s built upon making the right decisions when the emotions are high, uh, not, you know, just doing your job, not trying to do too much and just playing within the system. And I think that the entire years, and, and are always built up to these types of championship games and they always seem to play well.

And a majority of these games, obviously they haven’t played well in all of them. So, uh, I just continue. It’s kind of like the drew Brees, Aaron Rogers. Tom Brady thing. [00:20:00] I can’t bet against those guys. I can’t bet against nix. Amen. I’m glad you brought up the whole making right decisions because I think a lot of times Nick Saban goes underappreciated as, as a head coach in college football because everyone just assumes, Oh, he’s got the best players.

Don’t win all the time. He can just send them out on the field or not. But if you look at 2015, The call the onside kick call on the fourth quarter, when she knew he wasn’t stopped with the Sean Watson, he knew if he gave him the ball back, they were going to light back down the field of schooling. They, the guts to call that onside kick, get it completely turned the game around.

And then last year, To talk about Lois hadn’t played very much all season long. He knew Jalen hurts. Couldn’t throw the ball. The only chance they had was to come back and to come back in that game was to bring him to, uh, to throw the ball three touchdowns in the second half and overtime. And the of, so any questions about Nick Saban and game plan and strategy and decision-making Oh, he just he’s good because [00:21:00] he’s just proven that.

Over the last couple of years, let me bring it back to racing. You talk about Saban and the different clubs he has in his bag in terms of his ability to motivate his intensity, his, uh, his strategy game theory, whatever you want to call it. Is there a horse racing equivalent JK? Is there somebody you, you think of, uh, in, in similar terms, I mean, I think that the person that initially pops into your mind is Chad Brown, obviously, because he kind of has that, that, uh, kind of rough around the edges personality.

Maybe not, doesn’t seem like he’s the most approachable. Um, but I would go more towards Todd and the ability to kind of see the big picture and to have all of the little pieces in line and to make sure that all of his. Players are going in the right direction and in the right spots and doing the right things and making the right decisions.

Um, the only problem is I think Todd’s got a little bit more of an approachable personality than, than a Nick Saven would have, but I would, I would probably go [00:22:00] with one of those two guys as who’s the most similar he’s definitely got the more of the CEO vibe. Todd Todd Pletcher, uh, than, uh, than what you’re describing.

But I think those are both logical ways to go. Chris, I want to ask you a general racing question. What role does horse racing play in your life? Uh, at this point right now is a good time of the year for me, because we’re starting to really be able to devote. Um, more time to, to handicapping and racing. Uh, typically they’re the meats that I had the most success at, uh, during the year are the Gulfstream meat and the Santa Nita winter meats because of a majority of turf racing in the two year old, just really popping up.

Uh, the, the, this is I love Saratoga and I love Delmore. But in terms of what I think my return on investment, uh, the pick five potentials at Gulf stream, uh, you can find a lot of bad favorites and, and a lot of overlays, even with the computer [00:23:00] guys coming in late to, and the post ruts to pound those numbers down.

A lot of times, I think you’ll find some of those price Wars is that, uh, play a lot better. In the race exotic. So this is a time of year, not only would those two tracks and then of course, uh, NHC coming up, I get really excited because I know my football responsibilities are about to completely stop.

I’ll have some college hoops and some golf or things like that, but nowhere near the amount of time and dedication that in a travel that a college football has. So this, this is when I really start to, uh, uh, be I’m allowed to, uh, enjoy and really handicap a lot more than I have been able to do over the last couple of months.

Chris, you mentioned your, your college law responsibilities. Um, I think that, you know, for, for horse racing, we were always trying to figure out what that magic a magic sauce is to kind of help our sport along. You’re obviously part of, of, you know, arguably the biggest sport in America. Obviously the NFL has a big part of that, but college football would be right there, I think.

And, and obviously being a part of the most [00:24:00] popular college football broadcast in college game day. What, what is it that you think. And, and, and a couple of ideas that you think that that racing could, could do to kind of take from football or take from college football to kind of improve its product and to make it more available to the, to the, to the college football better, the NFL better.

I think in terms of the popularity of the sport and selling the sport to appeal to more, uh, just common, common folk, common Betterly I think what we’ve seen in the last few years with the success on the, the, the triple crown trail is something that people have. Take note when, when it, when it’s a big event, uh, I think you’re going to get more of the casual viewers in there, but I think in terms of bedding and handicapping, I’ve noticed in terms, I mean, just look at the menu on a regular sports when you have.

All of these prompt bets, all of these hit the head batch ups. I think that’s something even within a little races [00:25:00] that look, I mean, you and I, and Pete both know we’re ready to read in between the lights and the racing form or the time form or the rags or whatever. Uh, it takes a long time to be able to master that.

But if you could, if you want to ask a common, just to pick. Joe off the street or if I want to, Hey, tell my wife, Hey, who do you like between these two horses hit the head prop bets within single races. That’s something I think which could just mean it’s maybe not long-term is something that the industry is going to survive on that, but to get people interested, but just that here are two horses.

Who do you think is going to finish in front of the other? Run a race. That’s something pretty elementary and pretty basic, but I think somewhat to go out to the track on a given date, eat your out. Giving people a chance to have a way in and being able to price it correctly, I think could be a huge marketing boon to the sport.

How about in terms of your handicapping, Chris? How similar is [00:26:00] the way you look at a game to the way you look at a race? I think it’s more similar than, than I would like to believe anyone who knows and works in my pod and reads me to my colleague, Steve, they know I tend to be more of a contrarion type and, uh, I like underdogs and I think it’s the same way.

In my handicapping for horse racing, I will look for overlays. I will look to try and beat, uh, bad favorites. And it, that I think are way too short. Uh, I will look to be horses that seem to be like the, the, the public train, the steam horses I’ll want off of anyone that gets hammered down. And, and I don’t see the value there.

So yeah. It’s a lot. It’s a lot more similar, uh, that, uh, that I, I think if people, other than you guys asked me about that, what do you look for in handicapping? I think that I could try and draw some parallels and [00:27:00] say, we just talked about trying to attract more people, uh, in terms of sports, Andy copper is, Hey, the way you handicap games apply those theories to worth racing.

I think you probably do pretty well. Chris what’s your workflow? What, what, uh, what products do you feel like you, you kind of have to have when you want to sit down, uh, say when those first PPS come out for the NHC and you start diving in, uh what’s, you know, what’s some of your you’re handicapping, a workflow that you kind of go through, it’s a normal kind of process for you when you’re looking at the races.

I’m a dinosaur I’m pretty old school. I don’t want to overload my mind with too many different mediums out there in terms of ways to handicap races. Uh, I’m an old school daily racing forum guy, uh, and not only formulator I’ll I’ll fool around with, but just give me the traditional classic PPS. Uh, I’ll look at some work.

I’ll I’ll, I’ll do some reading, but. I don’t want to overload my mind. And I’ll, I’ll, I’ll just, I’ll break [00:28:00] down the, the, the races race by race, in a traditional type fashion. And I’ll, I’ve got some angles that I like, and I’ll look to see if I can find some of those angles within races, whether it’s. Uh, meetings a second time out or a second time versus winners.

Uh, horses may have been compromised and split rates from drawing the rail, uh, in their previous races. Uh, speed stretching out on the turf. I mean, those, those are. 10 tend to be things that spread through his attempt to be even tight waters that maybe you’re going long. We thought though those are some things that I look for, uh, with within races and it’s always good.

And then you apply it to what we’ll get out on counter, uh, next month at the NHC. It’s real. I think you really need to try and at least what I do. I will focus on the tracks that I play regularly. Uh, you know, and then those mandatories I’ll break down, but I [00:29:00] just like it. And especially in a big handicap, in a tournament site type setting like that.

I don’t want to overextend myself. I want to focus on what I know and try and take the most advantage of what I know. Great advice in your previous answer, you hinted at something we’ve talked about before, which I want you to expand upon for some listeners who may not have read those columns from, from a little while back.

And it’s this taking this idea of public teams and applying it to horse racing. Uh, give us a little bit on that. No. I think if you looking in terms of like sports handicapping it’s readily available, would you, there are sites out there where you could find a percentage and you can shoot William Hill and other casinos put out sheets and app all over again.

Information out there in terms of all the, all the money and the amount of tickets that are on certain teams. And any example from this weekend did the two biggest games on new year’s day were on the [00:30:00] public, were Ohio state and Penn state Penn state lost the game on the field and Ohio state was a complete.

Yeah, they should have covered eight, like 28, three, but somehow Washington got back in the game. It just it’s so strange. How more often than not these teams, especially favorites. Uh, they get that heavy. Actually. I shouldn’t say this. They were, uh, some of these trendy underdogs in, in bowl season, hyper tendency to, to not farewell, even in a regular season.

If you, if you watch and look at the, look at the money and look, look at the ticket, count more on Portland, but all these tickets and all these small bets that around these, these really public trendy teams and go against them, that’s the way to go. And it’s the same way. If you’re, if you’re breaking down a race.

And you see, Oh my goodness. They tend to want them in source. How is that possible? And then first click to see the horses 72. You’re like, all right, well, that’s going to be an underlay and everybody’s seeing what I’m seeing. So it’s one of those things that [00:31:00] has a tendency to look too good to be true. And if that’s a clear signal to me that.

You know what, it’s a little bit too obvious. I’m not getting the value on that horse that I want. Let me try and find someone, uh, that, that is more value than that. And more often than not the horse that you initially like won’t win and maybe you won’t land on the right horse, but I think you’re giving yourself a better chance of going in a different direction.

Let’s take a look at some races coming up on Saturday, starting at Gulf stream park. Let’s start off with race. Number two, then at Gulf stream, we’ve got a three-year-old steak. Chris, let’s start with you. I think combination is a horse in here through the rail in the, in the Buffalo man. Last out it is a set in second start against winners.

Ran, ran 20 well respectable third, uh, I, I liked the, I liked him in here. I [00:32:00] know it’s dangerous to, uh, to go against the, the always seemingly hot Jason service barn. But, uh, I think the combination and here it gets the, uh, the jump on final jeopardy and, uh, at what, not four to one in the morning line for drawers.

So, you know, that’s, I think you’re probably going to get a price just around that because there are a lot of horses in these field that seem to be within that five, two to four to one range. So I think the odds will be true and I like combination. J K. Yeah. Chris mentioned the Jason service thought. I, I wanted to try to beat final jeopardy and then I looked around, I saw there’s a lot of pace in the race.

Uh, final jeopardy kind of took back in a six for a long race and made that big run. Obviously I think that, that they’ll get the pace set up needs here. I would look at time for U S or the preview screen and notice that final jeopardy had the best late pace figure, which I was looking for. Looking for this race to kind of fall apart a little bit.

Some of these young horses. Uh, with a lot of, uh, like I said, a lot of pace involved with seismic Joel, uh, the horse from parks on the outside. [00:33:00] So I thought it might fall apart in that, you know, expected the Jason service, uh, final jeopardy, which is, would continue to improve second time out. And so I thought it was pretty simple to have the land on it.

All right. Let’s move on to the fifth race. We take it to the turf. Uh, once again, looking at three-year-olds favor it here is pivot Tina for Graham motion at two to one, which way are you looking JK? Well, it says a lot about, uh, about, you know, what kind of horse pivot Tina is that, that motion put the horse on the plane and flew them out to, uh, to Del Mar flew her out, excuse me, to Del Mar.

And, and she ran well enough that day. Uh, didn’t break all that. Well, came running late. I thought that just from a class standpoint, she kind of, uh, was, was, was one that I thought would be tough. For these, if it wasn’t going to be her, I thought the two Cassie horses made a little bit of sense, uh, with what a Butte and fortunate gal, uh, both of them ran well, uh, obviously on, in, on their last two races.

So I thought those made a little bit of sense, but I felt like the motion [00:34:00] horse was going to be pretty easy in this one. Chris, what’s your view? Yeah, like Jason said to me, uh, And in the previous racing, it looks like there should be a good bit of a pace up here. I’m going to try and beat pivoting. I mean, motions Bard is an ice cold, uh, to start the Gulf stream meats.

So until he starts heating up, uh, I think in a short price, I’ll play against a pivot team. And what JK said about fortunate girl, I think she definitely figures in this race. Uh, cutting back just a little bit. Uh, backed up, uh, on, on the front end in her, uh, first start against where’s the big she figures.

And I think red rounders figures as well, a horse that kind of got stuck down on the inside and her, uh, first go around Gulf stream. It’ll at a mile as well in that same race. Uh, I I’ve been on the cutback with w Tyler for Mike to make her, I think she certainly figures it. The score places once all, all up in my multi race, exotic Sierra in the back end, I picked five and whatever else, all, uh, [00:35:00] In enterprise, I’ll probably put red rounder and a fortunate girl up on top and drive.

And in a second and third under it, we’ve got a little bit of a pattern emerging. If folks have noticed a JK, a little more comfortable down on the chalky end of the spectrum, Chris, a little more attractive. That to the contrarian plays, if not out and out long shots, the solid alternatives, but, uh, some good thoughts from both of you.

And I think that’s the most important thing in discussions like this. Yes, the picks are great and gosh knows in the, uh, 400 episode history of this podcast in this incarnation and the previous we’ve given out plenty of winners, but I still contend that it’s listening to the thought processes of folks like Chris and JK that really make it worth listening to, and with that, let’s go to the seventh race on Saturday at Gulf stream.

And Chris we’ll keep it with you.

Um, Shockey development. Uh, I’m going to try and beat this dress party [00:36:00] slop tracks in Kentucky. Uh, now, now it travels down down to Gulf stream. Um, I’m going to take a shot with horologists, uh, the Jersey bread. Um, Daylight, daylight, winter. If they like went in one place where it’s clear, uh, in, in, in the last out, I think this horse can get a, um, a good trip here.

I think the race. Uh, the race, it parks to back where, where she was stuck down inside didn’t necessarily have to have the lead. And I’ve been drawing a little bit more comfortably here. Uh, I think she certainly figures that a, uh, a square pricing and fancy dress party can certainly win. Uh, I don’t figure wise she towers over the field, but I just worry about those figures being a little bit inflated from the slops, a law I’ll take a chance.

I’m not trying to, not a ton of finish, either looking at the time, form us late, a running style number. [00:37:00] JK does our pattern continue? Yeah, you guys are bullying me for picking chalk, and then I’m going to pick an eight to one shot. And Chris goes first and picks my horse. Okay. I had, I had to, I’ll be honest.

Pete knows this. I had to Google horologist. I was a little bit nervous about saying it on the air until I really read and saw the definition was. I thought maybe the jockey club let one through like,

uh, I like horologists for a lot of the same reasons that that Chris mentioned, uh, one being that the inside is not been where you typically want to be, uh, at Gulf stream. And she spent a lot of time down in there. She should improve second off of that, a small break and like, like Chris mentioned, I, I love betting against horses that have these big numbers on off tracks.

It’s a little bit harder to, to, to, to translate. I think, I mean, there’s obviously a chance that she liked that, that going while she ran so well, she could obviously run off the screen and win by seven. [00:38:00] And we’re both sitting here looking silly with horologists third, but I think horologists offers the most value in the spot.

And that’s where I would be playing in contests and be keying and exact as in truck. A horologist is someone who studies the measurement of time. And I only know that because of the brilliant S town podcast, which if you’re looking for a great narrative show, you need to have, uh, a tolerance for things that are kind of dark and upsetting.

But if that doesn’t put you off, check out S town, great stuff. Uh, all right, Jake, let’s move on. And, uh, and we’ll keep it with you to talk about our next steak here at, uh, at Gulf stream. All right. And in all honesty, Henley’s, Joy’s probably going to run off the screen and win by four again. Uh, after the last performance and the pulpit, but I like louder than bombs.

I’m a little bit concerned about the six to one. Usually those wide trips at Gulf stream and stakes races. People see those trips, they get bet back accordingly. I [00:39:00] think louder than bombs will probably be better off of that, but he had no shot in the last race against Henley’s joy, uh, will be a much better price.

I’d like to give that one a shot anywhere that the price doesn’t get a little bit too short. Chris, where are you here? Yeah, Henley’s joy is, is a total standout. I mean, this is the favorite, it’s a well-deserved favorite, uh, drawn outside. I, I think that he’ll, uh, he should win this race easily. And, uh, I guess you need to look for up a price underneath.

They didn’t mean, I think what JK said at that low, louder than Bob. I think, I think he will get that. Um, but he certainly figures and. First time, service it with Nick Juarez, who was one of the more regressive better term fighters. I go through my gosh, who I really liked, uh, betting on at a number of often that he won’t give you a good ride.

He won’t give you a chance, uh, Eileen Dakotas dude, for, for, for first time in the, uh, the Jason service bar. And it looks [00:40:00] completely outclassed on paper, but I would, I would be more than willing to bet that, uh, Nick was out this horse, uh, into the race early. Cause it doesn’t look like there’s a ton of stuff.

A ton of up patient here. So I think at Henley’s Joyce today, a comfortable trip and I’ll use a code is dude, uh, underneath try and get a little more value than the, uh, the three to five or two to five that you can get ahead of the store. That’s race nine at Gulf stream. I realized I never said that. And there’s one more steak at Gulf stream on Saturday, and it goes at the 10th.

We’re looking at a short field return to the races of code of honor. What do you think Chris? Is it hard to get by code of honor for me, um, when great in his debut it’s, it’s Saratoga at a nice number, but second to complexity in the champagne. I mean, they’ll be no shame in being finishing second bear now.

Uh, I think he has the field over a barrel here. I think, I don’t think he’s, he’s [00:41:00] going to need the front here. I think he can sit right off. Uh, cause I think he got horses like trophy chaser and well-defined and a gladiator came as low. They’re probably gonna go into the front as well. And do do better with Jordy works.

I think, I think Johnny, B’s going to just have a field over a barrel here. Do we flip the script here? J K with Chris going for the chalk and you reaching for something at a number or are you in line? I’m going to give another horse. I mean, I would use cone of honor. I wouldn’t try to get cute and beat the horse at all is the most likely winner I kept catching my eyes kept catching this me host the horse for a Jimmy Jerkins.

Who, who, uh, ran well against the Tacoma who we’ve talked about on the show on debut, and then came back off of a little bit of a break and ran rail ran well there with a short price was really impressive in that race. There’s always the opportunity that that horse could continue to improve. Uh, the stretch from six furlongs to eight is obviously a question, but, but a was finishing kind of in an upline and his last effort code of honors, the type [00:42:00] of horse that’s going to win, and people are going to start making annoying Derby top 21.

But I, to me, it’s one of those two horses with code of honor being the most likely with me hosts providing some type of. Of of value, but I there’s a six horse field and there’s not a whole lot in here. I think trophy chaser might take a little bit of money, but not much. Let me ask you JK. I think, uh, the big question for me about code of honor, if you made me make one of those silly lists you referred to, which we typically don’t do on this show, he would be at my, uh, top of it, I think based on the talent he’s flashed so far, but I didn’t like that story about, Shugg not liking how he was working.

Going into the REMS. And have we heard anything about how he’s working since a positive or negative? I haven’t seen anything. You know, they’re working at patient, which for the people like me, who really, you know, lean on clock and reports to have an idea of what’s going on, you won’t find one for pacing.

Uh, it’s a private facility, obviously. No, one’s there clocking well, there’s people clocking, but no, one’s there [00:43:00] reporting on those events. Think that it was going to have this one ready to rock and roll, but it’s also shook, right? Like he might just use this as a stepping stone with really just wanting to win the Florida Derby.

And this is a race that’s not of any importance to him. Just getting the horse, going back in the right direction. It’s a very dangerous proposition. You have no idea what to expect. It’s one where the market is going to have a real impact on how I view it. And of course, that’s not going to be helpful for the pics, but this is a horse who I just want to see buried at the windows as a sign that the works have been good.

And that the intention is there to start the season on the right foot. How do you view a situation like this, Chris, when there’s such a big unknown in terms of the horses fitness and the trainer intent? I think what you said is a viable way to look at it in terms of education and just getting a feel.

If this one works is dead [00:44:00] early, you’ll have a much better idea that people in the know potentially word is out. That horse is fine, short price. They were like that he would get put up the horse a little loop, warm, uh, then I would certainly have a little bit of hesitation, but, uh, I would just have to trust that.

If there’s any concern about the horse’s fitness or it’s something maybe gone awry in works should know. Sugar’s one of those guys talk about like earlier about shad and Todd and CEO and thinking big picture in comparison to what Nick Saban shows. One of those guys that has the long-term big, long view in his mind.

If there’s anything to be concerned about, I wouldn’t expect the horse to run, but, uh, if you, if you see him in there, I think, yeah, I think that tells you all, you need to know. Good points. Let’s move on to our final two races, which take place at the great race place, Santa Anita. And, uh, actually, before we dive into the specifics, I want [00:45:00] you Chris to talk about, uh, one of the horses.

You have a little bit of an interest in running out at Santa Nita this weekend. Well, unfortunately, a little bit of bad news that we are not that full street will not be making games is much anticipated return to the track this weekend. Uh, got a little bit of a, a, a coffin and Bob Baffert said just.

He’s fine. Otherwise he was ready to roll, but working up a storm and, uh, will not be running this weekend, but he expects to run, uh, early February. I think February 2nd, he said there might be a, uh, a race in mind for him. So, uh, uh, he had some, he had, I mean, you guys know one, one thing after another, it was sick.

Then he had, uh, it’s a little off, some time off and then. Had the, uh, the throat procedure breathing procedure. And Bob said ever since then, uh, he’s been fantastic. So hopefully we can get this a little flu bug, little cough out of his system. And, uh, and we’ll see him what time he said I need to probably around [00:46:00] February 2nd.

I think hopefully it’s not going to be February 9th and 10th because that’s going to take away a race away from me in the FAQ that I’ll be able to apply. Is, is this, uh, is this the first horse that Kirk’s been involved in or have you gotten them involved in other horses before? No, this is the first one he’s been involved in.

And it’s actually first for those who don’t know the story a couple of years ago, when a college game day in Kirk is always, Kirk’s been a racing guy he’s been going to the Derby. Gosh, probably for, for. 15 years straight now, he, he don’t sit and watch races with me. I’m on the bus on Saturday. I’ll fire something out and I’ll be like, really?

You got who you got. Uh, give, give me a pick for, give me, give me something. Give me an exact box and a breeders’ cup as well. But a few years ago, when game day was in Tucson for Arizona game, uh, Bob Baffert was our guest picker and, and. Kirk and Bob exchanged numbers and Kirk expressed interest like, Hey, I’d love to get [00:47:00] involved and not, and then didn’t hear anything.

And then like, Gosh, a year later, uh, Bob texted him out of the blue saying, Hey, uh, I got something that you might be interested in and it wound up being in a dotted for a little bit less than what he thought. And, uh, Saul street is now when he, this book is maiden for fun. Uh, it Delmar’s a two year old and then, uh, random the stakes got a bad post and came out of the race predictably, uh, beat up and then.

Uh, it was a little often in work there. And so he, I think he’s waiting for a, uh, uh, he, he wants a, when he wants another, uh, uh, another one to get a little bit more of a bank roll. And then I, but I do think the interest is there for him to get a little bit more involved. Cause he’s got, he’s got the bug, he’s got the bug big time and, uh, we, we we’ve been waiting for a while to see him run back and uh, just gotta wait another month.

And you’ve been along for the ride as a, as a co-owner. [00:48:00] Oh, yeah. I own a couple of us strands of the tail with my bank right now. But, but you know what, that fits the great part of that. I don’t own much of this horse, but it’s just so much fun to be you. You would have thought that the horse won a Derby prepped in punches ticket to Louisville, but when he, when he broke his maiden DOB, it’s just a great feeling to know that I, it’s funny.

It’s a little bit of an investment, not much, but. It’s just enough to keep it. Interesting. You can say I got a piece of words that want to know more. You are preaching to the choir. My friend were the guys who were lucky enough to have our friends at 10th strike racing, invite us along on the amazing if brief, long on value ride.

So we know all about, uh, even a small. Ownership interests can just make the game so much fun and take the, your experience of being a racing fan to a whole other level. All right. I’ve kept you already longer than I said. So let’s dive into these races. First one, we’re going to talk about [00:49:00] goes as the seventh.

It’s the San Gabriel, a grade two mile and an eighth on the turf. Chris, we’ll start with you. I think Liam and Sharma and Nick shares are horses that are obviously a figure and are certainly must use, uh, underneath, uh, in exotic. So they, they just seem to fire every single time. But, uh, I’m intrigued by Cleopatra’s strike.

Uh, first time D’Amato Flavian flat chooses to ride this horse, uh, some success at Woodbine. Now now ships out West bread up and down regally. Uh, I don’t think you’re going to get eight to one on, on, on the, on the Delta here, but, uh, I think, uh, this is a horse that should probably still be somewhere maybe in the six to one type range.

So, uh, cause, cause I think you will get. A lot of places that shares a lot of play for fully in the trauma as well. But, but I think with Pratt showing interested, riding this horse, uh, first [00:50:00] time out here on, uh, I’ll take a shot with Cleopatra. J K I agree with the two horses that he had mentioned, uh, from the start, Liam, the charmer.

And, uh, and next shares, I think both of them are, are extremely live. I’m not going to go into crazy details about that. I think that Liam, the charmer, if you’re wondering why he ran so bad in the last race, absolutely hated the growing either huge horse was never going to run well that day and the horse that I wouldn’t use here, uh, as much as I love our friends at Glen Hill farm Chicago style, once more ground the mile and an eighth is not, uh, is not exactly what this one’s looking for.

He’s going to run the, the more mile and a half types. Um, and, and so I would, I would fade there to try to get a little bit of more value in this spot by not using the three to one shot and, and go with the other two, Liam, the charm or the horse that our friend Mike McCarthy joked with us before the work breeders’ cup week.

Do they have. Earthquakes in Louisville. Well, you’re about to hear one, just referring to how the horse gets over the ground and you [00:51:00] could see that soft ground that he’s going to sink into. Isn’t going to suit a big horse. Like that was that. Do I have the right equine JK? That is the right one. Yeah. And hopefully this is going to be one of those.

One of those rides from Kent, DeSorbo where he’s going to ride the horse perfectly and win, or he’s going to fight him and wrangle them back and make one silly kind of run. This is one of, this is a perfect example of what Kent is. He’s either absolutely brilliant. Or he does something that makes you kind of scratch your head.

We’ll see what he does on Saturday. We talked before about those Derby lists that are going to be popping up. I’m sure they are popping up all over Twitter and various corners of the internet. The favorite in race nine, the sham is on all those lists. I’m talking about Coliseum. Why don’t think we’ve given much credit on the show yet, but to be fair, it’s early in the season and we tend to ramp up our Derby chat a little bit later than some shows.

JK. We’re going to keep it with you. It’s a great name. Uh it’s uh, when you see the big gray [00:52:00] thing, you know, running with the blue silks, it’s just, uh, a, it looks like a poster that you’re going to see on your wall four years from now. Um, he’s a maniac. It’s clear that he’s a maniac. You can watch him work in the morning.

You can listen to Baffert interviews. He’s nuts. And I think to, to, to lean on a horse, like that is always a dangerous thing, but I do think he’s the most talented horse. And I think that gunmetal gray who’s the, probably the horse that could beat him is going to be a short price too. It’s just a really hard race to try to play.

Cause you either have to try and you can’t really use both of them in multi raised beds, unless you love a lot of prices outside of them. I’m going to go with coliseums. I think he’s the most talented horse. Uh, and I think that, that this is going to be kind of his coming out party if he hasn’t already had that, but it’s not really a great betting race for obvious reasons.

He’s talented and nuts. So you’re saying you relate to him,

Chris. Well, how do you see this? I it’s kind of a race to lose. You’ve been working great. [00:53:00] Um, Bob has given them ample time since that debut to space races and come back here. Uh, I agree with you. I think it’s E and you’ll be able to get as hard rates to, to bet. I think, I think in the multis, you’re singling him, uh, on your, on your aid ticket.

And then if you want to try and you leave them off. Uh, on some motors completely, but I think within the race, I think to play him on top to win. And then you guys had mentioned gunmetal gray. I think that what you try and split them. Uh, I think maybe you try and put one of the Peter Miller horses in there for second, or maybe even be able to keep the SERMO horse, uh, as a price and try and play Coliseum on top and play one of those prices second, and then play gunmetal gray for third as, as a way to try and make a little bit of money.

But this is going to be. Uh, if he does wane on Saturday, this will be one of the stories, uh, moving forward into dolphins quest to, to finally want to Derby. And, uh, we’ll we’ll, we’ll see what [00:54:00] happens if he, uh, is the goods like he appears to be, he’s got the talent. It’s going to be fascinating to see how it develops.

One of the many storylines we will be covering in the weeks and months to come on the, in the money players podcast. And that is it for this edition. I want to thank. Guest Chris Felica fantastic stuff. And since no good deed goes unpunished around here, Chris, we’re going to ask you to come back soon. If you don’t mind.

I will happily join you guys anytime. Thank you. My friend also, of course, thanks to J K the world traveler taking time out, making the shows happen even while he’s in London, in California, all around the place. Thank you so much, JK. Thanks to DJ unstable for. Ongoing technical support. Uh, we were going to actually have him on the show today, too.

He’s a good judge when it comes to college football, but he couldn’t make it. He was feeling a little hoarse. Thanks. Most of all, to all of you, the listeners, you make the show so [00:55:00] much fun to do so grateful that our numbers have just hit the ground running. Not really losing anything. Since the transition from the other show that is a credit to you guys.

Keep listening, keep downloading, keep leaving comments, help us out. Tell your friends we’re going to keep this show going for a long, long time. We will be back on Tuesday with a review of all of this weekend’s action. I’ll be back in the Brooklyn bunker. Then I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. May you win all your photos.

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