Show #44: Preakness Wrap Plus TRF Visit

The 2019 Preakness is in the books and PTF and JK are here to answer all your questions: how good is War of Will? (6:05) Did Warrior’s Charge go too fast? (19:25) What’s next for Improbable? (49:50) Who wins the Belmont? (28:45) Tune in for answers to these and more. Plus, a closer look at the TRF Second Chances through a letter from Tyler, a graduate of the program (55:45). And a visit from TRF’s Kim Weir (60:35).


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your listening to the, in the money players podcast.

Hello, and welcome to the, in the money players podcast. This is show number 44. It is Monday, May 20th. I’m your host, Peter Thomas foreign Nitel back with you in the Brooklyn bunker, no longer riding a bus to Baltimore, as I basically spent the last week on a bus to and from Baltimore. So glad I did though, what a Preakness day it was.

And we’re going to be talking about it on this show a little bit later, we’re going to have Kim whir of the thoroughbred retirement foundation here to visit. But first we’re going to bring in this show’s cohost. He is the people’s champion, Jonathan kitchen. What’s up JK. I had a conversation with someone last night about, uh, about my game of Thrones thoughts.

And they said, uh, they said, yeah, these damn millennials. And I was like, wow, I, I’m not quite a millennial, but I’m like on the edge. Yeah, millennial, I think technically, according to the actual definition of when a millennial was born, how old are you? 35, 36. 36 80 though. Born at 82, graduated in 2000. Uh, yeah, I I’m going to look it up while we’re talking, but I think you are technically a millennial, but what were, what were the millennials being blamed for in this conversation?

Well, here, here’s what I’ll say. And we’ll save a little bit, the rest of this conversation for our Irish show this week, but we hope to have the big eight Anthony’s to be alone, to talk about game of Thrones a little bit, but we haven’t run that by him yet, by the way. But hopefully he’ll be game. Okay. We w w we, you don’t own the show.

The show was the vision of, of three people, and they’re allowed to do whatever the heck they want. And just because you didn’t get the ending that you want, it doesn’t mean it wasn’t right. It doesn’t mean that you need to whine and complain. Cause here’s the thing. Yes. People are like, Oh, it was so rushed.

It was so rushed. But if they made it totally fair, if they made it 10 episodes, then everyone would have say, Oh, it was so drunk out. So drunk out and so drunk out, like people are going to complain about everything. I’m fine with it. It was not the outcome that I had envisioned, not the outcome I necessarily wanted, but at the end of the day, if you look at it objectively who better.

All right. We’re going to put a pin in that before Eric Bilich puts you on life mute because we’ve already been warned that apparently we’ve come pretty close to giving spoilers. So I thought we’d been good about it. Of course I wasn’t so good in the batter of battle of Winterfell episode with you. I’m still very sorry about that, but anyway, yeah.

The, the fact of the matter is we are going to do the Thrones conversation. Hopefully we got to make sure the big a is game. Cause I can’t think of anybody better than him to can really, he can quote this show chapter and verse folks, things you didn’t know about Anthony be potentially, unless you’ve been following them on Twitter, but we’re going to try to do that as part of the Niagara show.

And we’re going to do it in an absolutely spoiler free way where we put all the game of Thrones stuff after the credit. So you just got to get out of there. You know, you’ll hear the closing song, whether I use Jonathan Richmond or put a different one on there this week, I haven’t decided yet. But then, you know, if you get out when there’s singing or music playing and you don’t want the spoilers, you won’t hear him.

Those who are interested in our thoughts can stick around then. But that’s enough about that. JK? You didn’t answer my question. How are you doing? I’m good. I had a fun break. Yes. Uh, I, um, it was a reminder. I, I, I, sometimes I forget because I tweeted about this. Like I’m always at, it feels like I’m always at these big races now, whatever it is, breeders cup Derby.

Belmont Travers. And the list goes on. I forgot how much I enjoy sitting on the couch and watching the NBC coverage or watching the Fox coverage. And I know people get, uh, they want to poke fun at the behind the scenes stories and the, and the hats and the, in the, in the celebrities and all that stuff.

But I genuinely enjoy seeing that other side of the game because you know, the other 362 days of the year, I’m beating my face against PPS and ADWS and tournaments and, and wagering machines. And like, it’s kind of fun to see the other side. And I also, this is no offense to anyone. I don’t, I’m not the type of horseplayer that necessarily needs to hear other people’s opinions to, to propel me into a wager.

I think a lot of people want information. They can use the bet when I’m watching those NBC coverages. I want to sit back, relax, watch beautiful angles of our sport, the colors. Watch other people enjoying it, celebrities, whoever. Um, I enjoyed it. I had a great time sitting on the couch and I think I made a joke that I was in my underwear and that was true.

So it wasn’t, wasn’t actually a joke. Oh, by the way, before we go any further, you are a millennial, my friend, 1980 being the cutoff year, according to the internet, which is of course never wrong. So I’ll just throw that out there so much to talk about. I agree with what you’re saying, that it is fun sometimes to get that other angle for me, talk about a different angle.

I was there in the Preakness village. Beautiful accommodations. Thanks so much to our friends at 10 strike racing for letting me tag along to what was just an amazing day. We’ll get to Warrior’s charge and the pace set and the Preakness in a minute, we’re going to start off with a conversation about the winner JK in terms of narrative.

I cannot imagine a better result for a Preakness where I think a lot of people felt. Slightly robbed of the narrative they wanted to have with seeing country house and maximum security face off. Well, we, we got a pretty great narrative with this nice victory from war of, well, I’m going to let you start, but I will say that he earned a one 22 upgraded, slightly upgraded time for him, us figure, I don’t know if you have the buyer in front of you, uh, feel free to slide that information.

And if you do, I’ll look it up in the meantime, but what did you think of this performance by war of will? Well, I thought he was really good. Um, and I’ll probably say a couple of things first before I get into the performance itself. But, um, he, when he crossed the wire, the thing that popped in my head is it reminded me of why I love Steve Beck show.

I love the show. Um, why love, uh, you know, reading articles and Twitter and all of these things is because I just remembered Frank McGaughey. On the show before the Louisiana Derby singing the praises of how talented and how good looking and how powerful and how, uh, how much he liked war of will. And it just reminded me that there’s so many different circumstances that can take place in these races that can prevent a horse from showing, uh, his best ability.

And, uh, that made me happy to think of, of the, of these clues that, that we, we, we can sometimes uncover when we’re doing what we’re doing today. And so that, that, that was cool for me. Um, I enjoyed that part of it. Uh, I was not a huge believer. I used five horses and I, I, uh, reverse pressed him or faded him, um, the most of all of them.

So he was not my best opportunity to, to, to make money. I did make money, but it was, it was the least of, of what I could’ve gotten. If one of the other five inside horses, uh, would have won. With that said, um, I thought he was really, really good. I thought he ran extremely well. I think he got a pretty darn good trip.

Uh, it’s been, it’s been brought to my attention from a conversation that someone had with a jockey that was not involved in the race, but a very prominent jockey that I, I won’t throw under the bus that a mistake in his opinion was made that no one really kind of got in front of him and made him eat kickback that entire time.

If you watch the NBC view, he’s having to clear the entire time. It was almost like he was on the lead without being on the lead. Uh, following quick fractions. I thought he was extremely impressive. I thought he ran extremely well. I don’t necessarily want anything to do with him in three weeks, but I think he deserved what he got.

Um,  and I don’t want this performance to be a rush to judgment that he was somehow going to win the Derby. If it wasn’t for. The thing that we, I have. So you’re going to have, you’re going to have to talk about you. Don’t, don’t be childish about this. You’re going to have to talk about it. We have new information that does change the conversation.

Okay. The incident where you can refer to it, vaguely. We don’t need to get, we don’t need to get into all the thickets and weeds as far as you know, all the ridiculousness out there. As far as that situation goes, I’ll say this, you obviously, you can’t say that the horse would have won. I agree with you a thousand percent, but I think it’s somewhat inducible that he would have had a better placing.

You know, if you wanna, if you want to look at it that way. Well, yeah, but I also think that what it does is it, it verifies that the decision was credible and, and, and because it, we, we don’t know what was going to happen. And I haven’t heard too many people argue that there wasn’t actually a point. Of interference and it wasn’t actually a felony.

I think most people are saying that, eh, we’ll make, there was maybe there wasn’t, but maximum security was much the best. So why are we doing this? But the problem is is that you cannot do something that prohibits another horse from showing his best ability. And I don’t think anyone will argue that. And the fact that he came back and won.

Verifies the horse had ability. And so I feel good about the outcome. I feel good about the whole situation makes me feel better about the Derby makes me feel good about this situation. And it makes me very happy that I get to bet against them in a Belmont. Well, you keep wanting to rush ahead to the Belmont and I’m just not going to let you do it.

We will talk about that, but we have weeks to talk about that. And this is the show really to get into the weeds on the Preakness. And there’s a lot of interesting things just to piggyback off of some of the things you brought up. I mean to me, this is the clearest tale of two trips that you’ll ever see from absolute horror in the Preakness.

I am very much of the mind of what Benny South street wrote on the, in the money podcast blog, that that trip was troubled from the beginning because of the energy he had to use, getting away from the gate in the Derby and how that lit him up and kept him from relaxing. Unfortunately. Well, it’s kind of funny.

I say, unfortunately, because in my public analysis of the race, I was very much guilty of getting too far out in my race design and worrying too much about something similar happening again. And obviously the rail was zero problem. It was, it was nothing but a benefit to him this time around. And I wish I had seen that more clearly and seen his trip coming the way that it Benny did.

And I wish I’d been able to be more enthusiastic about war of will in my various prognostications, for me, in my own bedding, I ended up using him as much as anybody in the race because the price was a shock to me, J K, this was a horse that I thought I thought both of the Derby horses. And a lot of my analysis was predicated upon the idea that both of the Derby horses were going to be buried eight to five, probable five to, to war of will.

You know, my value lines probably would have been, you know, Gosh, I don’t know, three to one and probable five to two, three to one war of, well more of will comes out at six to one. It was very easy for me to, to get on board there. I, and I apologize for the record boarding though. I did talk about it when we were on Steve BIC together that I thought it was a race, like all races, but in particular, where there might be a weird Rick in the market to look for some weird price that that’s a UK term that they use for like discrepancies in prices between what should be and what is, and it was very easy to get on the train for me at the price he was.

And. So it didn’t end up hurting me, but I do feel a little bit bad about that, but I think for sure you went from the, the, the horror trip to just the absolutely perfect trip, which I assume, and again, I don’t want to go there yet, but I assume that’s where you’re wanting to, to bet against. Yeah. And you know, I’m not going to press on to the Belmont thought yet.

I just wanted him to at least get out there ahead of it that I’m going to be against. Um, I think you could probably thank a couple of horses for the price you got on war of will. Um, most importantly, probably bourbon war who, who took an unbelievable amount of money, went off at five to one. Um, and at some points look like he might even go off in the fours.

Um, and then Owen Del took a lot of money too, and went off at seven to one. But I think that was probably fair. The morning light, might’ve been a little bit high on him, but, uh, I think Bergen war is definitely one that, that helped along with, with the price of, of war of will. And, um, and, and, and you ended up getting a pretty, a pretty good price.

It’s funny in hindsight sometimes. Uh, knowing that you’re going to get a certain number, it kind of changed the, the, your, your decision-making process. Right? I mean, I think I picked the burden wore on the show. I didn’t think he going to be 12, but I thought he’d be eight. 10, something like that. And when he, when I saw him at 41, I changed my tune.

There not seem like the blinkers agreed with that one after all, it’s always a danger in these big spots. Um, uh, the, the tactical change, I also wonder looking back, we all wanted to upgrade and based on the form of the Florida Derby, but I mean, he might just really be a one run horse, a little bit more of a plotter.

Now that doesn’t mean he can’t have big success, maybe even in a race like the Travers. If the pace comes up well there and they revert to the previous tactics, I got the addition of blinkers and it was like, Hey, maybe he can stick and kick this time. Didn’t work out for bourbon. War would not give up on him just yet.

The big thing that costs me in the race was the nose of ever fast JK becoming another. It seems like every year we get some bomb up in the number in the Preakness to potentially mess with. Are vertical plans ever fast. Did you see it at all? I think he was. I thought he was an easy elimination. Came back to bite me.

You didn’t see it at all, but I learned a valuable, valuable lesson. I spent about an hour on the phone this morning with, with our habitual guests, Sean Boardman about ever fast and what we came up with. Um, Oh, I came up with, and then he came along with, you had some other ideas as well as that. And I’m going, I’ve learned a lesson here.

First of all, first of all, I’m going to name these types of horses in there. There are no shot, nice connections. And what I think happens with these horses, no shot, nice connections in these big races. And you mentioned the Preakness and you’d mentioned the Derby. We’ve seen it before. They are not trying to win.

They are trying to hit the board and yes, he had zero shot of winning this race. I know he was running late, but that’s because all these other horses who were trying to win. Uh, you got beat up for your charge, beat up, trying to win and probably beat up, trying to win. Owendale beat up, trying to win ever fast and laughing.

Fox are two horses that I thought had no chance. Nice connection. Steve asked me to Romans, they took back. Watch the video. They’re 25 links back and every facet is glued on a rail. That was suspiciously. Good. Oh, we’ll talk about that. Came running for a piece late when the rest of them were stopping and there’s, it’s not a handicapping thing.

You’re not going to see that performance on paper from ever fast, but when a horse tapes back makes one run for a piece golden soul, uh, commanding curve. Uh, I’m going to go blank on other ones. It makes a difference in the outcome of, of, of these races. So it’s not a math thing. It’s not a number thing.

It’s not a trip thing from his last race. None of that. It’s the fact that he was not written to win. He was written for a piece in the race, fell apart and he picked up race fell apart. You sure about that? They went fast and I don’t know. I mean, I’m not saying it like absolutely fell apart. Another twist of fate was involved in the pace.

He finished out the back Mark at King probably shouldn’t have been up there out the back. Um, Warrior’s charge, good horse stayed on for a piece. Uh, but when you have a horse like laughing Fox and ever fast, kind of picking it up late and running and getting into the, into the super high five. Yeah. I mean, I don’t think it like, like completely collapsed, but it was a fast run race early where being a closer was an advantageous style.

To run in the race is more or less what, I mean, I agree with all that. I would, I might’ve said something I’m just parsing words that I probably don’t need to be parsing. I think it was starting to fall apart a little bit or something. I just, I think of a race that falls apart as one where you see, you know, uh, the, the, the winner coming from another, uh, another parish in the, in the lane, et cetera.

And obviously that, but, you know, I have a problem with, I understand that more of will is probably a little bit close. Um, but I also think that when we look back at this race and maybe even now war of will was probably the best horse in the race and we’ll probably have the most promising career moving forward.

Right. I mean, I think where your charged is going to say charge something. We might have something to say about that. I mean, he ran huge, but I don’t want to get to him yet. I want to get back to, you said something about the idea of the inside being suspiciously. Good. I thought it was definitely worth something, but I wouldn’t go so far from here without having done the deep dive through the back through the PPS and doing the bias work.

I wouldn’t necessarily say it was a golden rail or anything like that. It was certainly worth something. Would you go farther than saying it was worth, worth something for sure. Yeah. I mean, it, it’s hard to confirm those things until these horses run back. But I think as of right now it’s worth something.

The, the evidence works like ever fast. Yeah. Ever fast had plenty of risks or of will had plenty of rail and warriors charge hung on very well. Uh, with fast fractions and was obviously inside mostly. So I get the inclination. I just didn’t really see it that much elsewhere on the card. So, uh, and my own handicapping of the race told me that two out of three of those were the two horses that I thought were best.

So I don’t want to call it biased from here, but I was curious if you had Alexa, Alexa, Tony, and Lexa toady in 1701, gladiator King eight to one. I think both of them were more and more inside than they were anywhere else. And you could also use it as an excuse for Owendale who, as you said, was so bad and was, and was so, uh, so wide anyway, I’m I’m not willing to go there, but I’m interested to hear what other sharp people think about that angle.

Let’s talk about Warrior’s charge. Simple question. JK. Did he go too fast? I’m just glad. I’m just glad Jake bowels and I aren’t arguing about it anymore. He was leaving a wedding Saturday night and we were, and I was, we were fiercely typing at each other. He says too fast. I say. There was a plan. Here’s the thing.

I believe this I’ve never sat on a horseback except for that one tire and Porter. Right? When I feel like when you have a plan to send a horse, and I understand Marshall clay, Liz, Brad Cox, his reasoning for sending orders charge. He was drawn down on the inside. He, it was a horse that had wired previously.

He hasn’t shown that he wants to eat a bunch of dirt. You spend $150,000 running a classic one. You have a very competitive horse sitting inside of you. That could, I think we all thought might send and you can set off of him. But if he doesn’t send, why wouldn’t you want to be on the lead? Now, Javier shakes him away from there, asks him to go, encourages him to get the lead or we’ll take back.

And at some point, Javier probably said, Oh, darn. I’m probably going too fast. But at that point, what is he expected to do? Wrangle his face off and then take them and sit them in behind horses after he used all that energy and essentially duplicate the trip that Warren will have in the Derby. I I’m not saying that maybe the plan was aggressive.

Maybe the plan was the problem, but I don’t really fault Javier. What was he supposed to do in that moment? Also, the whole situation changes. If you watch the post position draw, there’s two positions left when warrior charge was still out there, the three and the nine, he draws the nine. It’s a completely different situation.

He sits off the other speed and maybe there’s a different result, but what was he supposed to do from down there? First thing that pops to my mind, Jonathan, is what we always talk about, about how we can’t come on here and criticize sins of passivity. And then especially a ride like that say, Oh, it was too aggressive.

In his mind if he had it to do over again, what do you have tried to ration out the speed? A little more probably, but you know, I think he was doing what he could and he’s working with a horse doing something that he never done run at that level, at that class level and trying to wire the field. I had zero problem with it.

I thought the horse ran his absolute eyeballs out and was unlucky not to get a placing. I think what you said about some horses being written for a place that was probably the difference between him finishing one position higher and getting a breakeven on the initial investment. But I still think the team has to feel great about how well their horse ran, how well he acquitted himself.

And the future for this horse is going to be bright. They’re going to have a decision to make, I think about cutting back, looking at a race like the Allen Jerkins and Saratoga. If they decide he can rate, that’s probably a spot I would think about, or they have the opportunity to get. Uh, stick with the two turns and look for the minor Derby route.

That makes a ton of sense. He’d be very dangerous, controlling speed in there. And then, you know, if they want to get really jiggy with it, there is a race like the Haskell. Now, do you want to go tangle with maximum security in Jason services’ back yard in the race that he’s clearly being laid out for?

I’m not sure that would be my first choice, but we’re dealing with a horse that obviously famously ran for a tag earlier. Who knows, who knows what the, I don’t wish anything ill on the horse, but who knows what the landscape and the division is going to look like by August. That’s an interesting option as well.

Yeah, we’ll we’ll, I doubt you’ve had a chance to talk to them yet off air about it. So what’s your advice to our friends at Ted strike? Where would you want to see this horse next? Well, a few thoughts. First of all, I love the fact that you said getting jiggy with it. Um, that was the first one. The second thought was, is the horse absolutely ran his eyeballs out and he did have an unbelievable performance.

I don’t know whose performance was better. His or Marshall Graham’s TV appearances. Oh, I didn’t get to see those. I was, although I’m famously captured in one, apparently there’s a where’s Waldo PTF thing going on. I didn’t, I didn’t realize it until I saw it. You have like, you have a pose, you have a couch posts.

You have like, you put your rear end away from the arm rest, and then you lean to the RMS that your couch posts. It’s the PTs get a silhouette like Michael Jordan, if he’s sitting on a couch like that, um, Oh my God. The other thought is, and here’s the thought it just popped in my head and I, and I don’t have a calendar in front of me, but I’ll, I will, Marshall and clay will listen.

Here’s a fun idea with warrior shark. How bout. We try them in that we, I like the way we there is priceless. Hey, they’ve been in two grade ones that we’ve been involved. You’re taking credit now. No, no, not at all. Um, Brad Cox has nothing to do with it. It’s all. Okay. How about Warrior’s charge? And the Jim dandy, right?

If it is, we try to control the mile and an eighth there. If it goes good, it goes good. If it doesn’t, then we can ease running on a cutback in the, in the Allen Jerkins. I think there’s a lot to be said. Or if he gave you handles it, now we go onto the Travers, right? Uh, I don’t think the distance is an issue.

You don’t, you don’t run that fast and finish fourth in a grade one like this, regardless of the quality of the other horses, whether you think they are, or they aren’t, he went fast and a grade one finished with a nice figure. Um, so I mean, that would be the, that if I own 0.5% of this horse, that would be my vote.

You’re clearly just trying to angle to get, to hang out with our crew up in Saratoga and extra time. But I like it. I do think it’s, it’s not a route that I had thought about, but there is a logic to it. We know that the horse is in good hands. They’re going to make the right decisions, but it’ll be fascinating to see what happens next with warriors charged with war of will.

All right, let’s talk about the Belmont. Now. Now you’re antipathy for war of will in the spot, which will make Benny South street unhappy after I hadn’t even, I was waiting for you to bring this up because I felt like such a jerk bragging about the fact that I ran one, two, three, and the Derby draft in, uh, in the Kentucky Derby.

But now Benny is, is chatting, chirping away in my ear about how he’s going to come and get it. Having had the Preakness winner. I got zero points there. So if war of will, and he’s got another one in there too, I forget who, but he’s going to have two shots to potentially take me down if I don’t hit the board in the Belmont, but you don’t think I have anything to worry about.

It doesn’t sound like at least not from Warrensville. No any, let’s talk about Benny, Benny, Benny texted me the other day. He knows I’m alive for a lot. And he says, I hate your horse. Don’t worry. I’m just trying to reverse Jenga. Okay. I, I got beat. So I appreciate that. No, look, he just kinda, you know, he’s gotta be over bet.

He it’s a lot, you know, he, he had the, uh, the roughly run race. He comes back in two weeks. He’s got, he runs here. Um, I don’t, I haven’t seen it. I haven’t heard it, but I heard like three or four different people that. There’s a, there’s a clip after the race. He kind of looks funny. I don’t, I don’t know. He does that a lot.

He had a, he has a little bit of, uh, not being a, uh, an expert on these things. A little bit of a hitch in the, in, I think it was the back. Right. But I talked to some people who actually know about these things and I was told that’s just him that that’s not some big thing to bet against, but he was definitely, you could see it in the video walking back to the, to the, uh, to the winner circle.

But so, but I I’ve been told that’s not something to worry about, but it doesn’t make me feel good. Shorter is he shorter than tasks? Yes, I think so. It’s the Preakness winner, you know, and, and the market is going to the market, even though bizarrely the narrative. I just feel like we used to talk all the time on the show, but international bad trip horses.

Right. And how they always get over bad. How the heck this horse went off at six to one. It’s just, it’s just puzzling me. But now I think the narrative of him overcoming adversity and winning the Preakness and being, I mean, he’s going to be the horse on the poster. Right. And I think there’s no chance he’ll sneak away again.

And I think he will be your very clear betting favorite. I will poke around, um, on what the prices are now in the UK, by the way, it was a 99 buyer speed figure in the Preakness for war as well. I love that, by the way, Pete, I’m using that, that that’s going to be a podcast, a staple from now on the horse, the horse on the poster there, it’s just the way, it’s a way to describe a horse who is just going to be this fan favorite.

Overwhelming. Everyone knows his name type of horse. Who’s over bed. And I liked it. I’m going to use that. Okay, good. I’m glad we can come up with new. It’s good. You know, we try not to force the podcast catchphrases here they do. But once in awhile we do, we do come up with something that’s worth that’s worth repeating.

Hopefully, hopefully that turns into one of those. So that’s my thought on war of will as well. It just another phrase we use all the time. Not, not one that we invented, but I mean, is this not a, just an absolutely classic last time was the time horse. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you gotta, you gotta gift at six to one.

And, and now he’s coming back in three weeks or whatever the number, you know, what is that third race in five weeks, weighing a mile and a half for a horse that has had some bumpy goals this year. I, you know, I just, I think last time or this time, last time was definitely the time. And you know, you’re going to face a, uh, a, a practice horse and Tacitus who, in my opinion is like, looks exactly like a mile and a half Belmont horse.

Uh, I mean, just the, you know, he’s, he can be tactical and now he can be close enough. He was so, so that, that allusion or whatever you want to call it up and finishing so well in the Derby is not one of those stupid. Oh, he, you know, he got a huge setup, was closing from last type of deals. He’s, he’s shown the ability to kind of get involved in a race.

Uh, close hatches with his mother who ran well at Belmont. And, and obviously it was, uh, a route Philly that you, you would imagine can pass on some stamina to him. He’s he’s Judd Mon you know, there’s a million things about him that make a ton of sense. So he’ll be written by, I would assume a, uh, an IRR or a Jose or, uh, or, uh, a guy who knows that oval, uh, trained by bill Mott.

Who’s won the race I can keep going. Right. I just think he makes a lot of sense. It made the case very well. You didn’t leave much meat on that bone. All right. The Brits are in love with Tacitus. Okay. In some places as low as six to four of their version of three to two. In the, the sharpest book, Tacitus is two to one war of will is seven to two.

I’m just going to run down these prices because I think listeners will find it. Interesting game winner four to one country house listed at five to one. I wasn’t sure it was even on his dance card. We’ll have to see about that. Owendale listed at 13 to two code of honor, eights, master fencer, and ever fast, both listed as 12.

And I’ll throw you Intrepid Hart at 11 as well. Oh, we’ll throw in plus K parfait at 10 as well. Anything on their buy, sell, hold wise, that gets you going. I forgot about game winner. That’s Benny’s other horse that’s Benny’s other chance to potentially to throw on me. Of course, if TASA, this hits the board, it don’t matter, but you go have 17 smart people say, be leading up to the, to the, to the, to the Derby, that horse I’ll run all day.

And you talk about the worst trip in the Derby, the international bad trip horse, um, you know, I actually don’t think  will be favored. I think it’s going to be a very muddy top of the market because all three of those horses are going to get a whole lot of support. Um, I would imagine a judgment, uh, you know, you know, the Judd Mont silks and tacit is he’s the horse.

That’ll be on the poster overseas right in Europe. So, um, you know, I think maybe that has something to do with their, their affinity for him just having the, the, the relation to the connections and Belmont and Bennett at the, I think all three of those horses are going to take a lot of money. That’s going to be a very, very interesting race.

We don’t usually have an interesting Belmont. It feels like if there’s not a triple crown on the line, it always seems like, I, I feel like when, uh, uh, when Tapper at one, it was just like, ah, whatever. He’s like just kind of defaulted to him. Cause like, who else are you going to pick? This is a race. I feel like you can actually handy Kevin come up some really fun opinions.

I like it. But so specific numbers. Does anything leap out at you one way or the other? I mean, are you saying you would buy game winner at four. No, cause I feel like you’ll get that on the day. And if you’re not getting four, you’re getting three. And if you’re not getting four, you’re getting five. Like I just, I don’t need four, three weeks out.

I feel, I, I mean, I hope you’re wrong about tasks that as being the co favorite, I, I feel like he’ll be longer than two on the day. And I feel like war of will, will be significantly shorter now normally to say, Oh, war of will will be significantly shorter. That would mean I should want to buy seven to two.

I do not, I don’t want, I want to hold war of will and potentially sell on the day when he’s best to favoritism. If that scenario should come to be, I like the idea of going to war in this race with Tacitus and game winner and of the others. We’ll just have to see. I mean, I think master fencer feels like one who will be over bet, but I mean, again, the 12 to one, there’s a whole lot of hold when I’m looking at this, this, this, this buy sell hold has a whole lot of hold for me.

If you made me, if you made me buy one of the ones we talked about. Right now, I think that fours on game winner, isn’t terrible. And you can find him if you’re listening in the UK and Ireland shop around that, it looks like there’s some fours and fives around or some fives around on him as well. Code of honor, as a, as a Belmont horse, have you, is he pointed there for sure.

I thought he, I didn’t think that was the case either, but it’s interesting that he’s listed in the bedding. I thought they were breaking until the summer. I could be completely wrong about that. Yeah, it makes sense. Right. It’s it’s it shook it’s it’s royally bred. It’s all those things. Sure. Okay. Yeah, it makes sense.

Uh, he also feels excited. Horse that’ll be over bet, uh, because of the convictions and the run in the Derby. Um, Intrepid heart is interesting, except I was not crazy about the last race. I wanted it to be a little bit of a sexier, uh, third or second place. And it wasn’t as, it wasn’t really that, but there’s also an opportunity that there was, uh, you know, you missed the break there and, um, and you know, there’s an opportunity to improve, um, He’s he’s a, he’s a half to a commissioner, so, you know, he’s got a right commissioner and second, I believe to California Chrome.

So I, I, you know, I don’t list, excuse me. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The California Chrome race, the one that’s on this one. Uh, so there’s obviously a reason that he might enjoy the, the mile and a half and be able to kind of get a piece, but, but, uh, we’ll see, we’ll see, it’s going to be a fun race though. I mean, to actually suddenly, uh, excited, you almost gave us a third triple crown winner there JK in the last 10 years.

I’m glad I caught that one. I’ll give you a few cells before we move on from the game. Just even thinking about it one more second. I’m okay. Selling ever fast 12 plus K parfait 10 and master fencer 12. I got to think they’re going to be longer on the day. So no harm, no harm in selling when you can, when you can buy back at a profit.

But I don’t like, I don’t like any, any of those three for the top spot. Not when, as you put it so well, the top of the market looks as strong as it does in this case. It is an interesting Belmont. We’re going to be talking about it a whole lot more. Let’s talk about some of the other horses who ran on the Preakness weekend before we move things along.

Where do we want to go next? How about, why don’t we go straight to Catholic boy, a favorite on this show? Hopefully we’ll have a chance to talk to Jonathan Thomas soon. Excellent training job, bringing this one back to the races. You might look at the final margin and say, Hey, this was, you know, workman-like I don’t think so.

Having watched the trip and I was able to watch the trip in a great spot, right? I think I was about the seven eights maybe. Um, so I was able to really get a good look at how, why they were on the turn. Not that you couldn’t do the same thing on the TV, but it was just kind of fun. Being able to do that with my actual eyes, uh, 10 feet from the horses.

I’m probably in that video too. I don’t think I’m sitting in my couch pose though. But what I’m trying to say is as wide as Catholic boy was, you give him those six or seven extra lengths of ground that he did not save. And he fairly well brutalized that field. He’s a runner. He is a, he’s a runner. I, I think that, uh, It’s gonna be a really fun year from him and what we’re going to see in, in some of the spots he shows up in.

Um, I’d imagine they’re going to be more encouraged to, to, to be, they’re going to be lured in by the kind of the prestige of some of the dirt races that he’s going to be eligible for and kind of fit in. I just makes, I can’t see them pointing out a campaign that doesn’t involve the Whitney, right. Or, or, or the Woodward.

Like I don’t see them running, um, in, in the Allington million or any, or anything like that. I just feel like their, their, their goals are going to be, you know, kind of around dirt and getting to, uh, getting back to the breeders cup classic. I mean, he’s a, he’s a running. Hard try and game son of a gun. And, uh, I really, really enjoy watching him race and very happy for Jonathan Thomas.

Yeah, that was, uh, that was certainly one of the exciting performances on the weekend. Came back a one 20 on time form and I’ll dig for the I’ll dig for the buyer in a second on that. But again, for me, it was a performance all in all that was more impressive than just the raw than just the raw bigger.

There’s a few other races we need to talk about from the weekend. Um, do you want to go next? I mean, I think the most, uh, unbelievable performance and if we’re lucky, I think we’re, I think we’re going to get lucky. We’ll be able to get some inside information on the, uh, on the, in the ring, uh, pedigree podcast later this week, but I thought I can’t ever say it.

I just struggle. I don’t know how he even came up with a word, but Kofi, we nailed it. I did. Well, I guess it’s hard to come up to, to pronounce a word that doesn’t exist. Fair, totally fair. Wow. I mean, that was freaky. In fact, I didn’t believe it. I didn’t believe the clock. I was like, I was going to wait an hour and Craig McCaskey is going to come on my Twitter feed and tell me that it wasn’t right.

But he, you know, he left tennis practice early and he verified the time. Five figure makers that I respect all have the race fast. It was never a, Oh, Whoa. You know, the, the, the track was really fast. We understand the track was fast and these, these professional figure makers are aware of that as well. And in the variant will, will show that she was freaky good.

And I know they’ve always liked her. And, uh, and, and, and, and, uh, look, I love her. I think she was so impressive. And I mean, they might take our picture now for the test, right. I mean, that was, that was very, very impressive in my opinion, the most impressive performance of the weekend. And probably the most impressive performance McKinsey was pretty impressive.

And the last month, one Oh seven buyer, how appropriate you run one Oh seven and change and you get a one Oh seven on the buyer scale, and you’re confused. You’re going to confuse people that don’t know about figures with that comment. Yeah, exactly. It doesn’t always work that way. Folks. Um, with the other figures, you apparently have been doing some hunting up on this.

Have they come in? Does that seem like about an average of what you’ve seen? Does that seem high? Does it Sean would, would, would mind if I told you that Sean, Sean had it at one Oh seven two? Uh, so when we, you know, we, we respect what, what Andy Byers meant to this game and the work that he does, but he isn’t, he’s in a tricky situation as, uh, as a commercial figure of, of, of being too fast or too slow in needing to, to kind of have that happy medium of, of understanding that the markets are going to be influenced by the number that he creates.

And. And I think sometimes they’re less willing to take chances that individual people like Sean and Paul Matisse are willing to take. And so, uh, with Sean having it right there at a one Oh seven too, it gives me even more confidence that it really was that fast. Add a third voice to the chorus. Craig mil Koski came up with one 27, which you’d deduct 20 from that one Oh seven once again.

So it seems pretty indisputable as you were pointing out. Looks like one for the test looks like one for the filly and mare sprint. Potentially. I’ll be honest because I don’t and I was going to do this off the show. Cause we’re going to, the show will come out after I, I, I put you in full, full, uh, full steam ahead on trying to find some one to get us a price for the breeders’ cup, filly and mare sprint, because here’s the thing.

I don’t know, she’ll probably run three, four more times. I’d imagine she’ll prep for the test. She’ll win. She’ll run the test. She’ll win. And then she’ll, she’ll run at Kean Lynn like in that seven for a long way. So I think it’s the Beaumont. I don’t know what it is. She’ll win. And she’ll be the favorite and the affiliate Meritor and affiliate or sprint.

And, and I’d like to get 10, 12, 15, 20 to one. Cause she just won a race at Pimlico. Right. She hasn’t been overly impressive all year, so it’s not like she’s going to be over bet in any fancy post markets. We have to find a price on her and get locked in now because I’m telling you that was a legit performance.

And I think she’ll be okay. I think she’ll be favored. Come November. Well, no, market’s up for that one yet, but I would imagine if you live over there, you have the opportunity to go into a bookmaker and ask for a price and they’ll see what they give you. And if it’s appealing. So if we have any listeners who want to play that game, let us know after you fill your boots, perhaps it’ll be a little taste for me and J K.

So that’s an open offer to our UK and Irish listers there. I can’t imagine the Vegas places giving us as good a price as we could potentially get over there, but we’ll see. It’s, it’s a great thought. And it’s one that I’m excited to continue to follow before we move on from Preakness weekend, I wanted to ask you about point of honor in the black-eyed Susan J K what’d you think of that one?

Well, let me, let me tell you the most important part and I need to do it. I’ll do it today, but there is. I’m going to do it actually today. I promise that I will make a gift. There needs to be a gift from the NBC coverage. Of George weavers. Oh my God. It was phenomenal. It was phenomenal. I took a screenshot and sent it to him when he did like the nasty face.

You know what I’m talking about? You know, the nasty. Yeah. I mean, I was so happy for George. Um, you know, he’s an, he’s an unbelievable trainer. I feel the same way about him as I feel about Michael McCarthy with they’re they’re, they’re these under the radar guys that do everything the right way that are there.

They’ve had long careers and successful careers, but now everyone in the world hopefully is realizing, uh, what a lot of us have already realized that they’re extremely capable trainers. Uh, Todd, Bob and Chad are not the only ones that can train horses and not the only ones who can train good ones. And, uh, I was extremely happy for him.

I thought she ran huge. I didn’t have a strong opinion in the race, but there’s no doubt she was best. I mean, she was four wide on both turns. Um, I think it’s also important to pause and highlight. That was the final leg of the all Javier pick five, which, which was, was, was amazing. And, and, and we want to give Javier a lot of credit.

We’d also want to give his agent John Pentagon, a lot of credit. Um, I text John and told him that I was going to play it all. Javier pick three. And, uh, and he was, he was telling me that he was ready to get some wins, go on. He felt like they were having some bad luck, uh, leading up to that. And I was very happy for, uh, for, for everyone in with them, including the clips, uh, thoroughbreds, we had Aaron Wellman on.

So, uh, it was all around very happy moment watching them win. And like I said, I’m going to make that I’m going to make that gift. It’s gonna, I’m going to use it. I’m gonna make it. I’m going to I’ll do it today. Please. Do you gotta use your gift making power for good for once JK. And my outfit for making that.

No, I was, I never said that. I never said that that was a sick, the individual who made that the, what was he? He made the baby cry. Was that, Oh my goodness gracious. All right. We’ve got a couple more minutes before we bring in Kim we’re. I wanted to just give a couple more thoughts on what I’ll just call the Pimlico experience.

You’re the question, Mark. In my voice there Mo just a personal plan. I’m not the first one who said it, but I just can’t emphasize it enough. Fix the place or move the race, make up your mind people, because this is just another case where in this limbo that we’re in right now, who are the big losers racing fans and HorsePlayers are the big losers.

Where are the big losers enough? Let’s get the situation resolved. It’s it’s, it’s not the state of the plant is not befitting of a grade, one race. And I get that it’s a political football and I get that there’s all this stuff going on, but one way or the other, I would like to see the situation resolved before next year’s race, you know, or at least have a plan in place before next year’s race.

What do you think the odds are that happened at JK? Well, you know, one of the other good parts of seeing the NBC coverage is I was fortunate enough to see Brittany interview Belinda’s Tronic and, and, uh, Belinda essentially guaranteed that the race will be there next year. However, she was very dodgy about the future.

Um, it’s very clear that the Stronach group would rather not spend the money to make Pimlico what it needs to be and, and move the race to Laurel, which is a property that I think they are. More enthusiastic about for a number of reasons. Um, unfortunately I think Baltimore, once it pretty bad. Um, and I think there’s probably, like you said, it’s a political situation where, um, you know, there’s a lot of, uh, since the little game of Thrones, this right, is trying to figure out who’s gonna, who’s gonna move and who’s gonna do what, and who’s gonna get their head cut off.

There. There is a family feud element in both shows too. So there you go. I I’m very, I, I wanted to come this year. I didn’t get to, I’m going to make sure I go, I don’t want to have never been to a Preakness at Pimlico. Um, and I think the writing’s on the wall that it’s probably not going to always be there.

Um, but that’s the inside information just based on what everyone else sees and hears, you know, uh, like I said, she was, she was committed that it will be there next year, but she was very non-committal that it was okay. We can look forward to the same lack of, uh, facilities and customer service in, in 2020 in Baltimore.

Tell you what though. I really did enjoy being down in Baltimore, the show at Mt. Washington Tavern, that was an amazing space and a lot of fun. And then this restaurant that I found to go to Saturday night, I don’t know if you saw me tweeting about this Gypsy’s trucks, Toronto, it’s called. If you’re in the mid Atlantic area, you’ve got to get to gypsies.

Excellent craft beer selection. That was great. But I’m telling you, man, it’s all about the crab cone. Did you see the crab cone on Twitter? I did see it. I knew that aside now I just have to ask them, I’m very curious on the side, off on the side, but go ahead. Like a derogatory word. Like, is it, am I, is it not true or is it true?

What crab? No crap Gipsy. Isn’t it? I thought I heard that somewhere. Gypsy. I think it depends on the context in which it’s used. I think it can be somebody’s nickname and be okay. I don’t think it’s like so out there anyway. I don’t think there’s a, I think there’s a way to use it. That is inappropriate. I do not think it is in the proper name of it.

Restaurant over a food truck. Yeah. Is it a food truck? They, it started as a food truck and it has evolved into a proper restaurant in here, Hampton, which is like those. Those are good. We have one of those here in town. Uh, random plugs called turf and surf. It was like a, and it is the opposite. It’s not, it’s not surfing terms.

It’s the same thing. It started as a food truck. The line was crazy. Then they moved into like an abandoned. A bar inside of a restaurant abandoned kitchen inside of a restaurant. So, uh, I can get down with the, with the, with the transformation look, maximum security was a 16 claimer, and then he was almost a Derby winners.

I don’t think you should impugn food trucks like that, man. There’s like some of the most famous chefs in America at this point have started their way on the trucks, the appearance, right? I w w what I think what society thinks is like a great restaurant is not presented in the back of a truck. Fair enough.

Fair enough. And the space is really cool. It’s, it’s a neat everything about it is good. We’ll have to, if you do make it there next year, hopefully I’ll have more civilized accommodations than my sleeping on the bus for two days last week. Maybe I’ll actually stay in Baltimore. We can take in an Orioles game.

We can go, we can go check it out. We can, we can accuse them of having an unwoke name. It will be a lot, will be a huge hitch. Okay. I’m sure we will. I’m sure we will. The other thing I wanted to talk about, and this is, I warned you against doing this, I think in your first year, on the show back many years ago of when you asked the question that you don’t know, if the person knows the answer to any idea what happened in the Preakness betting challenge this year, I believe it was a gentleman by the name of Alan Schafer.

I don’t know exactly what he hit. I think maybe had like 18,000 ish, something like that. Uh, he holding up a big check for 40 grand. So whatever the math is on that, you also want to, uh, breeders’ cup betting challenge, uh, Pegasus world cup and an NHC seat. So a nice score, uh, for him on that day, Alan is part of the brain trust of Canadian players who helped get the Pegasus off the ground, the Pegasus betting challenge.

So HorsePlayers definitely owe him a debt of gratitude for getting that event into existence. That’s good to see him doing well. Any other names you recognize there at the top of the leaderboard? Um, I don’t have a leaderboard in front of me. I saw Ryan Flanders was in the mix for a while. Um, I believe Chuck grubs was, was in the mix top 10 type of stuff, no name that we don’t need up there.

That’s all. That would have been funny if I had to make you say that. But anyway, I, I, uh, I will do the digging. I will talk to Nate. I will get the information and we’ll talk about it at great length in my appearance with Steve Beck this Wednesday. So we’ve got more coverage of that. Anything else from you JK, or should I cut you and bring in Kim here to close things out on this edition of the, in the money players podcast?

I got two things. One I want to tell you, congratulations. What did I do this time? He beat me in the head. Oh yes. I not only did I beat you, I beat you in good, in, in great style. And we it’s pretty funny. We didn’t talk about it probable at all. I actually, that was, that was like hashtag host fail. So I’m really glad you brought this up, but it is good.

I’m very pleased to announce that my record all time has now improved to eight and 252 in head to heads against you improbable. I ended up very whistled. I’m just going to say it. I didn’t end up using it in my doubles, but I actually did end up using it in my exact, as despite originally saying that the whole purpose of the play was to bet against him.

I wish I could’ve canceled. When I saw how he was acting in the gate. He was doing that thing again. I hate to see that. I hate to see them when they say, Oh, it was the blinkers. Why he did that? And no, it was this. It was that. And then you see him. With the antics. Again, I wished I could have gotten him off all my tickets.

And then as if that wasn’t bad enough, I thought as hard as Mike Smith asked him out of the gate, when he did not, I into my view did not respond to the degree that Mike Smith wanted him to. I just, I, if there was in running bedding, I would have laid the entire bank on that, against that horse. And I don’t think he would have given me too many anxious moments.

What are your thoughts with him and what do you want with him going forward? Well, the listeners can blame you and Jake Valdez for. For making me have to say all of this repeatedly on Twitter. So I’m now I’m slightly exhausted talking about it. I didn’t know. You’d been talking about them. I’m sorry. I missed that.

No, no, no, no, no. But he, to me, he’s a counted horse who clearly has some issues. I’m not ready to write them off. I’m not saying, Oh, we need them to cut back to seven. I look if maximum security wasn’t in the race or your charge, doesn’t show up in the high school. I love him in the Haskell at six to one 71, whatever, a forgotten horse going a mile and an eight.

I think he he’ll never be forgotten in the Haskell with, with the silver wig. Well, not the silver wig, the silver hair. In that instance, I think that he clearly has some issues and they were there. We had hits to those issues, not, not physical issues, but mental issues with the blinkers being added in the career.

Not necessarily a Baffert thing than them coming off. And then the. The the, the, the trip and the Derby where he had a good trip, but didn’t really run. And then this thing where he’s jumping all over the place and kind of in position, but not finishing, I just think that there’s probably an energy, uh, an energy waste that’s going on with him at some point prior to the actual running of the race.

And maybe we’ll, we’ll get that sorted out. And I still think he’s a talented horse that has a lot to offer and at around two terms. Interesting. I wouldn’t rule them out as two turns. I mean, it wouldn’t be necessarily, I think cutting back is right, but I wouldn’t say the two turns are out of reach. I think we’re kind of saying the same thing.

Be interesting to see if they go the minor Derby route. I would like to see him get some time. I think he’s had some, some tough experiences and I feel like his head might’ve got caved in a little bit and could use some time off and maybe come back and be a good four year old or something because yeah, I would imagine he’ll, he’ll get some time off.

And, um, and so, Oh, there, I did have one more thing. I was going to throw out for my final thought. Uh, and I know I told you this, but I got to say it out loud. I cannot tell you how unbelievably proud I am of my kid who played in a soccer game, scored his first goal, his second goal, third goal, his fourth goal, and his fifth goal of all time on the same day.

And I would have been devastated. If I would have missed that to go to the Preakness and not be able to get into a bathroom with working water, you would have been in a place where you didn’t have to worry about that last bit. I’ll say if you were, if you had conned your way, like I did until the 10th strike area, but that’s a great point.

And we make these decisions sometimes. And it’s a good thing about it being 2019, where you can still, obviously from people hearing you, it’s not like you watched all this stuff on video tape, days later, you were still participating and you were able to do the much more life important thing. So that’s great.

So what ha what, what change of form happened if Austin’s played in many games and that he hadn’t scored, and then he went and scored five in a game is a Jason service helping coach him now what’s going on?

Oh my God. Oh my God. It was just third. Oh my goodness. It was his third game ever. It’s the first game, you know, you know, a couple of opportunities. I’m lucky, you know, the kids are all standing around. They’re all chasing the ball together. Second game, same situation, third game. They finally started to kind of spread out a little bit and he’s got two really good kids on his team.

And he kind of learned that they’re going to get the ball towards the goal. And if he can just kind of get himself in the mix, he’ll find the ball at his feet. And that’s what he did. Like, I mean, he got a couple that were he, he was, he was the, uh, the, uh, the creator, but he had a lot of them where he was just in the mix and the ball found his Phoebe finished that Booker.

So we like to call it, we like to call it putting the biscuits. In the basket now just be careful. That’s great. And that’s smart, but I want to make sure he’s getting back on defense JK. We can’t have a goal hanger in our mixed Mid-City. Yeah. I’ll tell you right now. I had to chop him up. I said he like, let some kid, you know, kind of, you know, he was like, not really trying to get the ball, but that’s just awesome.

He doesn’t want to be too physical or whatever. Um, But we talked about that on the way home, as we were stopping at the store to buy him a hat. Cause he got a hat trick, you get a hat and get back. So we clear it up. We’re going to play defense too. We’re not going to be a diva. Exactly. That’s that’s the only thing I’d worry about, but I appreciate the intelligence clearly.

Once again, another example, budding advantage player, JK. Always. Absolutely. All right, we’re going to kick you and we’re going to bring in our special guest up right after this word from our partner at Monmouth park racetrack, the 2019 racing season is all about more, more purse, money, more stakes races, more racing, days, more ways to make money with live racing.

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So contest players. You’re going to want to sign up now for more information, go to Monmouth All right, PTF back with you. Before we bring in Kim, we are, I actually want to read a letter that one of the men in the second chances program wrote, explaining his experience. I’m going to do that right now.

This is a letter from Tyler, dear. TRF. Never in my life. Did I ever think I would want to spend my life taking care of horses, much less temperamental retired thoroughbreds. Then again, I never thought I would go to prison either. It’s not that I grew up in a bad family. I had a very loving mother and two grandparents that always supported me.

I never went without emotionally or financially. However, I have struggled with mental illness since I was six and not like in the movies, obsessed or crazy, but more bipolar depression and anxiety. This resulted in withdrawing myself from childhood friends and even family, because I felt ashamed and different.

It was easier to push people away, then communicate with them about how I was feeling, which in turn caused problems at home. And then I met seven other people who would exploit my disability and act like they understood in March of 2013, seven other people. And I committed a string of car fires that resulted in my incarceration.

I was given the most time due to the court’s opinion that the crime could only have originated from someone with mental illness. And of course my co-defendants took advantage of this. Afterwards. I went to a very dark place emotionally and mentally for four long years, I took my problems with the guilt and shame.

I felt out on others by writing complaints against prison staff. It was my escape, my vice, it felt good to put the spotlight on other people’s problems and misconduct so I could ignore my own. It wasn’t until this vice consume my life that I met case manager, John scrambling, not only did he strive to show me how to cope with my problems.

He recommended I go to the thoroughbred retirement foundation program at second chances. Farm in Sykesville, Maryland upon arrival. At second chances farm, I was paired with the horse Greek ruler. AKA Greek, a 16 hands, high dark Bay, retired thoroughbred little did I know he would change my life. And so would the TRF program during my nine months at the farm, I was paired with one horse each month and worked under Sarah Stein and amazingly brilliant equine tech, who is TRS barn manager and teacher for the second chances program.

During my first month, I worked with Greek and he showed me how to trust. Again. You have to trust when working with a stubborn 1100 pound thoroughbred, I got my foot stepped on. As a reminder, I also learned a deeper understanding of boundaries and communication. My second and third horses. We’re don’t quit dreaming dreamer and Liang’s dancer dancer.

I learned how to cope with my anxiety from dreamer as he has the same issues, trying to help him with his anxiety taught me how to openly deal with mine. The patients and awareness I learned from working with dancer helped me work on my patients in daily life. My fourth and fifth horses were two rivers Niles.

And judge Lucy, Lucy Niles taught me love and empathy. And no matter what, he always stayed. Mellow. Lucy was temperamental and sometimes showed signs of past abuse. But with that, she taught me not to be judgmental and to have an understanding of other’s pain and hurt. She also taught me that you can always combat fear with love and to stop being so cynical.

My last horse number six was quite rightly Papa, and he taught me self-awareness problem solving and how to stay positive, whether he was struggling with warm hooves allergies or lameness Papa always greeted me with warm eyes and a soft nuzzle. He just lives in the moment. A true gentleman. Then finally, I got to work with the Greek again.

The heartwarming moment I had been waiting for for six months. Every day, I worked with Greek, whether it was grooming in hand training or a lesson with Sarah, I always felt the connection and the release of stress Greek made my gray days clear. And with that, I know I made the right decision to pursue a career in equine science since graduating from the second chances program.

I completed two courses from new horizons, equine education center, equine first aid and stable management. I’m currently enrolled at the college of central Florida to obtain my equine tech certification. I’m also a member of the Arabian horse association and the Maryland horse council. I no longer struggle with mental illness and my communication skills have improved my family and I are closer than ever.

Thanks to John scramble and Sarah Stein and the TRF horses. I’m no longer ashamed of myself and my past some retired thoroughbred horses can be retrained for other disciplines, such as hunting, jumping, dressage, Western, or pleasure, but TRF provided us with horses to be teachers to change the lives of people like me.

And that again was a letter from Tyler, one of the graduates of the second chances program at TRF. And now we’re going to bring in Kim whir of the thoroughbred retirement foundation. Kim, how are you doing today? I am great, Pete, thanks so much happy Monday after Preakness week. That’s right. We were yapping about that earlier in the show at great length with Jonathan Kenshin, but I wanted to bring you in as well too.

I just thought this letter that I read in one of the TRF newsletters really encapsulated in very specific terms, the way that the second chances program works. And I just wanted to bring you on to talk about it a little bit. Is Tyler someone that, you know, personally. Yes. I have had the chance to meet Tyler.

Each of my visits to Sykesville starting last September when he had just begun the program. Um, and he is, he’s truly an inspiration to me and all of us here at TRS, because he’s so fully embracing, um, the horses and letting them bring him forward into his next chapter. So yes, I have met Tyler, lots of pictures of Tyler, and he’s a great kid, Tyler, an excellent writer, and really brought a lot of cross on the page.

Would you call his experience a typical example when it comes to the second chances program? Well, he’s, he’s typical of one profile, but he is a very special young man. Um, he is. Um, so he, he represents a segment of our, of the, of the individuals in that program. He’s probably not the most typical though, because he has been he’s special with his, his.

Burning desire to become more educated. Um, and just he’s, he’s a, he’s a young, he’s a bright young man whose future is in his hands. I guess the difference may be one way to categorize this as a, he said it he’s young when you’re kind of getting that from my references to him. And he made, I can’t remember, he put his age in that letter, but he’s young and he realizes that he has a long life ahead of him.

Um, so his voracious desire to consume educational materials, technical detailed in depth is not, not unique, only unto him, but it does make him, I have a special category. Who’ve simply caught the bug. Like for him, the horses are doing, they are teaching him patients. They are teaching him empathy. They are teaching him confidence, but he seriously wants to pursue a career in horses.

And they, not every man and woman who comes through our program, get it that. Get the bug that bad. So, um, I love that he does speak for that segment. Um, but his, his, you know, almost, almost his very proactive desire to acquire more information is it’s just inspiring to us. Cause it is, it is a bit above and beyond what we’ll see, um, from sort of the average individual in our program.

It’s great. And I would bet on him being successful in that career with horses, whether it’s, uh, on the thoroughbred side or, or maybe working in one of the other disciplines. Do you have any sense from him where his interests will ultimately lie? As far as that goes. Yeah, he has really, um, I mean, I think thoroughbreds, he’s going to his love for them as clear as could be as you, as you’ve just read.

So I believe he will go and do an equine, um, uh, that tech that’s, that’s the, that’s a huge, big deal for him and really lots of opportunity for someone as bright as he is, who’s willing to do the technical study that, that he loves to do. Um, so I think I see him very much in the veterinary science in the veterinary tech field, and it will be horses for sure.

And because he believes these thoroughbreds, these resources are the ones that brought him along to the degree, he can dictate or indicate his interest. I think he’ll stay as close to resources that they can because they are who he feel brought him kind of from the brink. Um, and that’s, that’s the heartbreaking side of Tyler is that he is so young and he, when I met him, he had just started our program and he used the most interesting word to me.

I’ll never forget it. When I first met him. Um, he actually was speaking at one of our graduation events. So the men in the Maryland program. Complete a six month curriculum. And then they have a graduation event where not only do the graduates speak, but each of the men in the program speak about what they’ve acquired.

And he’d only been in a month at the time that I met him in September. And he said he had until the day he arrived at second chances, he’d spent all of his energy focused on litigating. Right. And that was his word. And it was really out of context at a horse barn, but it really didn’t mean anything to me until I realized that he’d been spending his, all of his energy, writing the letters to protest his sentence.

And he was just fighting back as hard as he could about the fact that he was even there. And what he said is that he’d spent all of his energy litigating until the horses taught him. He could spend all that energy and that bright mind of his, on something constructive, like learning information that would get him out of there and into something new.

So he, um, yeah, I I’m quite sure he will end up where he wants to be because he’s absolutely driven and he’s. He’s re redirected his energy and his intelligence into something constructive. It’s great to see somebody trying to break those kinds of patterns. And the horses clearly are a way that helped him turn that page in his life.

And I loved his descriptions, how he saw the individual personalities in the horses and equated certain horses with, with certain lessons. And just to, just to make a cheeky remark. Yeah. Not too much litigating around the barn unless Gary West happens to be visiting that day. But we’ll move on quickly from that.

And I’ll ask Kim, what else has been going on with you and the TRF since we last spoke, huh? Yeah, it’s a busy time as it is, of course racing. It is with all folks in the horse world. So for us, um, I think the way, one way I characterize what, what, what I’ve been up to and where I’ve been is, um, kind of a mad dash to the finish line before July 11th rolls into town here in Saratoga.

We all know the significance of that date. Opening day opening day. That’s a big day for us and the whole, uh, the whole world fortunately starts looking our way. So I have, um, been really spending a lot of energy in the three, the, the three, um, geographic areas where my, my, my personal and our organizational energy is this year, our, in the Maryland, um, community where Tyler’s located, but really looking to build some momentum around what we’ve been doing in Maryland for quite a while, but are looking to expand.

We actually hope that we’ll officially announce this summer and with more details, but we’ll be at doubling our herd size in Maryland this year with a new sanctuary farm there. The sanctuary farm is, is the non second chances as part of the TRS, but it’s, uh, those farms like the one we have here in Saratoga are really designed to be educational, interactive, experiential.

Forums for folks like all of our listeners today to come meet these horses and pet them on the nose and see what 25 years old looks like when they’ve run 40 races. So we’re going to have one of those in Maryland and it’s going to come online this summer. Um, so that’s, that’s been one of my projects and an exciting one for, for all of us, um, who want to spread the word about these horses.

So that is that’s one thing. Um, the second thing I’ll give you three. So you don’t regret having asked me what I’ve been up to. Um, uh, second one is here in New York. Um, you know, which is where we’re based and where we, we started it as a Wallkill facility. I’ve been on a bit of a tear organizing VIP visit days to our Wallkill facility.

So I’ve had, um, Karen Domingez, uh, to our farm back in April. I brought two of our elected New York assembly women, uh, Carrie Warner and Eileen Gunther to the farm last week. And I have a big, um, assembly. It’s actually the. Committee on corrections from the New York assembly. The chairman of that committee and number of his committee members are coming to Wallkill on June 7th.

So really trying to, um, to make sure that New York new Yorkers know that this amazing innovative program started here 35 years ago, uh, and take pride in that and help us and help us do just like what you’re doing. He just to carry the word to folks who don’t know. So between this initiative, that’s kind of a New York assembly initiative to get the folks in our elected government, aware of what we’re doing to change save lives and change lives, uh, save horses and change lives.

That’s been a big thing. Um, as well as what we’re doing here in Saratoga is to build a real community of volunteers around our Saratoga summer farm. Cause we, once again, folks, we’ve not had horses here in Saratoga on a permanent basis, and we do have them here. In fact, we already have them here now. For rescues that we brought in in March.

So we’re really getting folks to get hands on with our horses and that will continue all through the summer. Um, so those are a couple of things that have been keeping us busy. Plus I have a trip to Kentucky next week, so I’m very excited about that. Nice. Always a great place to visit. Well, we’ll, they’re going to talk a lot more.

We won’t just be brainstorming about it here on air. We’ll talk off air and then bring the news maybe on your next visit Saratoga. Not far away, be fun. If we can get some stuff to work together and maybe who knows even open up some opportunities for listeners to see a little bit more of what’s going on with the program and continue with their generous donations.

I have to say I’ve been very impressed at the caring of the, in the money listeners and the money they’ve come up with so far. And obviously I think there’s going to be a whole lot more to come on that front and the more we can do. Especially during a time like Saratoga to just continue to educate and share some of the work you’re doing, the more we’ll be able to help and have a little mini herd within a herd.

That’s the goal for the end? The money. Oh yes, that is so wonderful. Yeah, please don’t let me leave without saying my just profound. Thanks to you, Pete. And to each and every one of your listeners who’ve expressed their support for the horses have joined our mailing lists. They’ve given generously and yeah, we are well on our way to, uh, an in the money players podcast heard.

And, um, I actually just last Friday, I sent out a whole flurry of hats. You may recall that from our Derby Wars, uh, charity challenge, I had promised 10 TRS hats to a drawn list from that group. And they all went in the mail on Friday. So if you’re out there listening and you received the hats, please let Pete know where it was.

Great pride. Um, and I also want to say a little challenge to that. Fabulous, Michelle, you who won the tournament cause she received a goodie bag full of CRF. Swag. And I am counting on something on Twitter, maybe a photo of her dawned from head to toe and TRF, you can make that happen. I bet we could make that happen.

Speaking of the contest, we had a lot of great feedback and it’s definitely something we’re going to be looking to do again at some point, probably sooner, rather than later on our end. What was the reaction like from what, from what you heard, did it, did it make, uh, did your colleagues notice what was going on?

Have you heard any positive buzz about it? Oh, Oh yeah. Um, we are just, um, uh, you know, astonished and thrilled and, um, heartened. And, you know, I will say that your, your listeners they’re paying attention to you, Pete, because they write these beautiful, beautiful comments with, with the guests that come in.

And there were so many positives about the tournament and, um, You know. Yeah, it’s definitely been note has been taken here by not only our hard work and team in Saratoga, but our board of directors and, um, you know, it’s it. Yeah. Please know that it is, it is going with great notice and just the horse. The horses are clearly at the heart of the horse player.

You are proving that each of you and you as, as the cheerleader in chief therapy. Thank you. That means everything to me, Kim, thank you so much for your time today. We will be checking in with you again very soon. That’s going to do it for this edition of the, in the money players podcast. I want to thank Jonathan kitchen.

I want to thank our man Tyler for that great letter. And we’ll thank Kim Weir as well for their contributions to this show. Thanks also of course, to 10 strike racing and the thoroughbred retirement foundation. Most of all, I want to thank all of you. The listeners who make this show so much fun to do this show has been a production of in the money media in the money media’s business manager is drew Kourtney.

I’m Peter Thomas foreign, a towel. May you win all your photos?

Um, for 35 years, the thoroughbred retirement foundation has been dedicated to saving thoroughbred race horses, no longer able to compete on the racetrack from possible neglect, abuse and slaughter, the oldest and largest charity in the U S devoted to race horses. The TRF makes a promise of lifelong sanctuary to those horses, unable to pursue a second athletic career unique within the aftercare industry, the horses of the TRF find their second chance in the role of teachers through the TRF second chances program, which provides vocational training in seven correctional facilities across the U S the program is saving horses and saving lives.

Learn more at www dot TRF Inc org. And please use the special in the money podcast link to donate TRF Inc org slash player. Hello, and welcome to the Dr. Ah,

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  • So agree with you about Pimlico. I went to the Preakness/BES in 1999 and it w as a dump then too (that was the year that the A/C went out and people were literally passing out in the upper reaches of the grandstand). Coming from someone who spent his formative years at Suffolk (known colloquially as “Sufferin”) Downs, I know dumps when I see them. I’ve been to small tracks, like the old EvD, and there’s a difference between “old” and “dump”. Pimlico is a dump. It’s in a lousy location (traffic leaving the track is abysmal) and I agree with Stronach that there’s no point in spending their money on it. If the Baltimore City/County officials want it so bad, let them pay for a complete redo and new traffic ingress and egress. Otherwise, if I were Stronach, I’d go as far as to threaten to dump both LRL and PIM rather than spend one single dollar on PIM. Let’s see how many people want to buy the place.

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